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Any TUPE /employment expert here that can help?

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Hi, I was just wondering if anybody can offer some advice. I will be tupe-ing over to a new company soon. The formal consultation has not started but rumour has it that all of us will have to … Read More
mmmkbb Avatar
3m, 4d agoPosted 3 months, 4 days ago
Hi,



I was just wondering if anybody can offer some advice. I will be tupe-ing over to a new company soon. The formal consultation has not started but rumour has it that all of us will have to be downbanded/ downgraded. Now it is of a concern for me as not only I will be downband but also I will lose almost 4k annually. The job title itself is the same but the responsibility is somehow minimised in the new job, hence the lower pay.

I am not in the union . Just wondering if anybody been in the same situation and how do you resolve it as it is effectively a resignation if I do not agree to the terms they set out for me.

Thanks
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mmmkbb Avatar
3m, 4d agoPosted 3 months, 4 days ago
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There are thousands of solicitors out there who specialise in Employment Law and finding one close to can be done by visiting this web page https://www.gov.uk/find-a-legal-adviser

However, at this stage I suspect talking to a solicitor would not serve you well. As you have discivered a TU is unlikely to accept your application to join - or if they do they will not help you with any existing issues at the moment - a bit like an insurance company who will not accept your life insurance application if you are about to die shortly.

So, as someone else has said ACAS ( and Citizens Advice ) can give you all the info you can manage to soak up and you can use the info to your advantage - and of course you can share it with others, including your employer. Employers act rather better when dealing with well informed employees!

It sound as if the old and prospective employers may be in consultation with TU, in which case it will be difficult for you to negotiate anything different/better than they are doing. But you have a right NOT to belong to a TU if that is your choice. You also have a right to join one - just no rights regarding existing issues when they accept your membership.

It's very possible that many terms in your existing contract of employment may have been partly/mostly negotiated by a "collective agreement" in which case it is the parties of that agreement which will be involved in any transfer of the business to a new owner/employer. But if your contract of employment and terms and conditions were solely a matter between you and your employer then your employer will need to consult with you individually OR if there are many others like you in the same/similar position then perhaps consult with a representative of you all. It can get very messy in situations where you have a broadly fifty/fifty split of union members and non union members.

All Responses

(18) Jump to unreadPost an answer
Responses/page:
#1
Join the Union and get advice from there.
#2
check google to see if you have a local Unemployed \Welfare rights centre who should be able to help you.
#3
Good general guidance on TUPE is available at the Acas website
#4
Don't believe the rumours. I'm not sure they can do that as what point is TUPE if your terms and job changes.. When I moved over things were gradually changed.. I think if you don't agree you technically get made redundant. Most companies also make alot of staff redundant so I'd also not rush to get out if your entitled to a decent amount of redundancy pay.. I know that it's not a nice process but sometimes there are new opportunities within the new organisation so it's not all bad. Good luck.
#5
good luck
#6
Dawsy
Don't believe the rumours. I'm not sure they can do that as what point is TUPE if your terms and job changes.. When I moved over things were gradually changed.. I think if you don't agree you technically get made redundant. Most companies also make alot of staff redundant so I'd also not rush to get out if your entitled to a decent amount of redundancy pay.. I know that it's not a nice process but sometimes there are new opportunities within the new organisation so it's not all bad. Good luck.

Good advice all round.

Google TUPE and the first thing you will see is the statement "The TUPE Regulations preserve employees' terms and conditions when a business or undertaking, or part of one, is transferred to a new employer. Any provision of any agreement (whether a contract of employment or not) is void so far as it would exclude or limit the rights granted under the Regulations."

Rumours like that will always occur when a company is undergoing significant change. It's a coping mechanism for some.

Edited By: SuffolkLad222 on Feb 21, 2017 09:22
#7
#8
You have the choice to keep your current terms and conditions, the new employer may offer a different contract but your under no obligation to accept.
#9
Hi mmmkbb,
The concerns you have described are the complete opposite of tupe. So if the one thing you know for sure is you are being tupe'd across to the new company then that tells you your pay and conditions are transferring across too.
#10
Just be aware, my wife and her colleagues received letters at home about changing T&C's voluntarily, as they would be better, there was a lot of confusing statements to try and disguise the change.
But the major sly tactic was the final statement which read something like "failure to respond to this letter and we will assume you wish to move on to the new T&C's."
Probably hoping that many would not bother to read it.
#11
I have been tuped over several times and never have they dropped the wages but they have made redundancies and set back on again but like above join a union you can do it online
#12
Hi thank you all for the advices. Much appreciated.

I thought it is kind of naughty to join a union now considering we will be tupe-ing over within the next 2 months. Also I was looking at the faq which state that legal advice e will not to provided to pre-existing issue, which kind of pertain to my problems.

I am looking forward to join the new company but feeling rather depressed at the prospect of reduced pay + band. If I were to be down banded I will also lose the opportunity to pick up new skills + techniques as the new band does not allow such.

Is there any legal rep that I can seek instead of the union rep? Anybody knows? Thanks
#13
Also guys is my pay + grade covered within the terms and conditions?

Thanks in advance x
#14
Firstly I must be clear I AM NOT AN EXPERT. However I have TUPE over twice, so I speak from knowledge gained by experience and things I found out during the process.
As someone has already said TUPE is actually about preserving your existing employment conditions. In practise it means preserving your pay and conditions, pension entitlements and very importantly length of service. It may not mean preserving job title, grade or position in the organisation because the new organisation is different, that part is up to you to accept or not.
On the subject of length or service. If you do TUPE over it is as if you have worked continuiously for the new company. So if you have 5 years service with your current employer you have still have 5 years from the day you start the new company...... very important in my view. However there is a BUT, only a small one. My understanding is that if the company and you accept TUPE over they cannot make you redundant for 12 months the BUT is they can after that but with all you accrued length of service.
So, in summary you should not be too worried about accepting TUPE the harder thing is fitting into and making your way in a new company with established staff and methods, hence some choose not to accept TUPE and go direct for redundancy. I do hope this helps.
#15
SydD
Firstly I must be clear I AM NOT AN EXPERT. However I have TUPE over twice, so I speak from knowledge gained by experience and things I found out during the process.
As someone has already said TUPE is actually about preserving your existing employment conditions. In practise it means preserving your pay and conditions, pension entitlements and very importantly length of service. It may not mean preserving job title, grade or position in the organisation because the new organisation is different, that part is up to you to accept or not.
On the subject of length or service. If you do TUPE over it is as if you have worked continuiously for the new company. So if you have 5 years service with your current employer you have still have 5 years from the day you start the new company...... very important in my view. However there is a BUT, only a small one. My understanding is that if the company and you accept TUPE over they cannot make you redundant for 12 months the BUT is they can after that but with all you accrued length of service.
So, in summary you should not be too worried about accepting TUPE the harder thing is fitting into and making your way in a new company with established staff and methods, hence some choose not to accept TUPE and go direct for redundancy. I do hope this helps.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I am hoping for some o first hand experience and your answer is very insightful. Thanks again.

Can you tell me has any of your colleague has been downgraded ? And what happen to them? Also should you decided not to accept the t& c isn't that a resignation rather than redundancy ?thanKS
#16
I have been TUPE'd in quite a few jobs and as far as I'm aware the terms and conditions have to stay the same for at least the first year after that seems to be when restructuring normally happens..Eg your job is made redundant and you can apply for another job..which is normally your old job with a new name and added duties been in my existing job for 3 years now so not sure if it's changed. certainly never ever to late to join union as advised above. good luck and get as much advice as you can.
#17
I have been tuped three times now the second time they said they wouldn't make redundancies but two months in 30 days notice for redundancies then set them back on on zero hours. Third time got tuped in sep they have changed hours stopped any enhancements and not paid into pension guess what the Unions have done nowt.
#18
There are thousands of solicitors out there who specialise in Employment Law and finding one close to can be done by visiting this web page https://www.gov.uk/find-a-legal-adviser

However, at this stage I suspect talking to a solicitor would not serve you well. As you have discivered a TU is unlikely to accept your application to join - or if they do they will not help you with any existing issues at the moment - a bit like an insurance company who will not accept your life insurance application if you are about to die shortly.

So, as someone else has said ACAS ( and Citizens Advice ) can give you all the info you can manage to soak up and you can use the info to your advantage - and of course you can share it with others, including your employer. Employers act rather better when dealing with well informed employees!

It sound as if the old and prospective employers may be in consultation with TU, in which case it will be difficult for you to negotiate anything different/better than they are doing. But you have a right NOT to belong to a TU if that is your choice. You also have a right to join one - just no rights regarding existing issues when they accept your membership.

It's very possible that many terms in your existing contract of employment may have been partly/mostly negotiated by a "collective agreement" in which case it is the parties of that agreement which will be involved in any transfer of the business to a new owner/employer. But if your contract of employment and terms and conditions were solely a matter between you and your employer then your employer will need to consult with you individually OR if there are many others like you in the same/similar position then perhaps consult with a representative of you all. It can get very messy in situations where you have a broadly fifty/fifty split of union members and non union members.

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