Architect payment dispute with family member - HotUKDeals
We use cookie files to improve site functionality and personalisation. By continuing to use HotUKDeals, you accept our cookie and privacy policy.
Get the HotUKDeals app free at Google Play

Search Error

An error occurred when searching, please try again!

Login / Sign UpSubmit
Expired

Architect payment dispute with family member

£0.00 @
Looking for a second opinion on this, family member is in a dispute with an architect for some work that was undertaken, things have recently escalated so looking to see how this dispute can be resolv… Read More
Chanchi32 Avatar
[helper] 4m, 2w agoPosted 4 months, 2 weeks ago
Looking for a second opinion on this, family member is in a dispute with an architect for some work that was undertaken, things have recently escalated so looking to see how this dispute can be resolved.

**The chain of events are as follows**

- October: Architect was asked to produce some drawings, the invoice stated £346 plus VAT, however there was a subsequent email agreeing £340 cash which was paid in person.

- Some small further work was commissioned at an agreed price of £50 via email no invoice was issued, there were also a specific request for the dimensions of the drawing evidenced in the email. Work was completed however the drawings were the wrong size and not to the specifications requested. Therefore the architect was requested to make the necessary amends as per original brief. Eventually architect comes back and produced revised drawing (but still to the wrong spec) and states that the additional work will cost £80 which is at a discounted rate. Another email exchange pointing out that the drawings are still wrong and never agreed to an additional charge as it should have been covered under the original work. No payment has been made for this work.

- Radio silence for over a month

- Mid December architect gets in contact stating not received payment and because of this he is issuing an invoice for work carried out at a non discounted price. The invoice includes
a) Payment for £75 relating to the work undertaken in October. Despite agreeing cash payment of £340 is now claiming he is owed the invoiced amount difference which is around £75 contradicting what was previously agreed in terms of the £340 cash payment.
b) Payment for £200ish quid relating to the additional work undertaken, contradicting the original agreed price of £50.

- Few email exchanges, last email beginning of Jan from architect stating that if he doesn't receive payment by 13th Jan for the new invoice will be going to small claims court to claim back work undertaken, which he states will be over £1000.

- Only other thing to mention is that some neighbours have also used the same architect and been having similar problems.
Tags:
Chanchi32 Avatar
[helper] 4m, 2w agoPosted 4 months, 2 weeks ago
Options

All Responses

(26) Jump to unreadPost an answer
Responses/page:
#1
See them on Judge Rinder!

Was there a receipt provided for the cash?
[helper]#2
nbgrobbo
See them on Judge Rinder!
Was there a receipt provided for the cash?

I don't think there was receipt/vat receipt
#3
I would politely offer to pay the £80 on completion of drawing to your spec, as agreed.

Remind him you have all emails which state the cash discount, and no VAT invoice was issued to you upon payment.

Remind him that the £80 is more than the agreed sum of £50, and this has escalated due to his not performing as agreed.

Once the Tax implication is pointed out he won't pursue the matter in a claims court, BUT by offering the £80 he may just finish the job, but he may just walk away and you have drawings of no use to you?



Edited By: andynicol on Jan 08, 2017 15:51
#4
Call his bluff and say take to small claims court (Which costs him to apply to) and state that you have e-mails stating the agreed prices, which you paid and that you don't think the courts will look kindly in his favour for "cash in hand" work....and court will ask why wasn't invoice generated when the original work was completed??......he's hoping you would panic and just pay
#5
Call his bluff and say take to small claims court (Which costs him to apply to) and state that you have e-mails stating the agreed prices, which you paid and that you don't think the courts will look kindly in his favour for "cash in hand" work....and court will ask why wasn't invoice generated when the original work was completed??......he's hoping you would panic and just pay
#6
If there is email evidence but no invoice that would be sufficient to prove something in a civil court. You only need to prove something on the balance of probability.

Sounds like the architect needs to swallow this one and move on.
#7
- Original work commissioned: Do you have a receipt for that and does the receipt or any paperwork state that you received a discount or that the architect has revised the bill to £340? Also was the £340 payment inclusive of VAT? If not, the £75 charge could be for the VAT (although according to my calculations it should be around £70)
- Extra work commissioned: seems like your family member would have a stronger case here. The architect has not carried out the work he was commissioned as per the specs in the email. Keep that email safe, along with any correspondence. This is your proof of what you had ordered from the architect and the price agreed. In the absence of any extra terms in the written contract (if any), you are not obliged to pay him for the corrections he/she had to make because of his/her error.

May be best to write a letter outlining the reasons for non-payment and the expected bill as agreed. Or, you could seek advice from a solicitor.

Edited By: Hustler1337 on Jan 08, 2017 16:06
#8
Go to court offices and ask advice. They will or used to advise you because I would get in first and take him to small claims.
#9
Your contract with Architect is not binding unless specifically agreed or accepted his terms, as Cash (off the books) was agreed.
However Architect would not be in any better position if he goes to court on this considering most communication is on record (emails).
I would just find another Architect to complete the project.
#10
He will be in worst situation in court on asking cash by tax avoidance:)
U can Call CAB ( Citizen Advise Buerue) for their thoughts for free. Can threat him with reference to CAB , if there is need then CAB will support you. They may take some time but worth waiting.
#11
I would now ignore any future communications from him, if a small claims summons arrives you can deal from then. I very much doubt he will go to court and admit to receiving cash in hand remittance.
banned#12
lol at tax avoidance

He probably has a limited company & can also act as an individual.

In anycase he cannot sue for more money unless stated in the contract.

Why did you not pay him for work done?

Was the scale of the drawings in the contract? I guess not. So you are liable to pay & also pay so adaptions you requested.

You might not like the above but its fact.
#13
YouDontWantToKnow
lol at tax avoidance
He probably has a limited company & can also act as an individual.

Either way, HMRC would 'potentially' consider it tax evasion (which is illegal, unlike tax avoidance, which pretty much every taxpayer does, and is perfectly legal), if tax is due or VAT payable, but hasn't been declared or collected.
banned#14
nbgrobbo
YouDontWantToKnow
lol at tax avoidance
He probably has a limited company & can also act as an individual.
Either way, HMRC would 'potentially' consider it tax evasion (which is illegal, unlike tax avoidance, which pretty much every taxpayer does, and is perfectly legal), if tax is due or VAT payable, but hasn't been declared or collected.

No they wouldnt.

OP has stated the answer to the quote through a limited company with VAT was a definite "NO". So the issue of tax evasion could be equally directed at the OP as well as the contracted architect. Hence there will be no prosecution. As after the OP said "NO" the contractor reverted to a self-employed quote.
#15
Well try to sort it out amicably but wouldn't be too worried about him going to court. First that would cost him perhaps more then he's asking for. First level you'll be asked if you will go to telephone arbitration, if one of you doesn't take that up a 1-2 hour sit down in a small room with a judge. He's ask for both sides then make a decision, but before that you'll be asked to submit a statement, this should be a timeline of events with any evidence. This will be very important to you as you should produce bank statement of payments and time of phone calls ect. It's very unlikely the this architect will take that route but even if he does common sense says he won't get anywhere near what he wants. And don't forget you can counter claim which will cost your about £60 I think.
#16
Speak to a solicitor via pro bono route or if in a union via union solicitor. Wont cost anything and could save you a lot of time.
#17
YouDontWantToKnow
nbgrobbo
YouDontWantToKnow
lol at tax avoidance
He probably has a limited company & can also act as an individual.
Either way, HMRC would 'potentially' consider it tax evasion (which is illegal, unlike tax avoidance, which pretty much every taxpayer does, and is perfectly legal), if tax is due or VAT payable, but hasn't been declared or collected.
No they wouldnt.
OP has stated the answer to the quote through a limited company with VAT was a definite "NO". So the issue of tax evasion could be equally directed at the OP as well as the contracted architect. Hence there will be no prosecution. As after the OP said "NO" the contractor reverted to a self-employed quote.

Even if operating as a single entity, the income still needs to be assessed.

Edited By: nbgrobbo on Jan 08, 2017 20:26
#18
YouDontWantToKnow
lol at tax avoidance
He probably has a limited company & can also act as an individual.
In anycase he cannot sue for more money unless stated in the contract.
Why did you not pay him for work done?
Was the scale of the drawings in the contract? I guess not. So you are liable to pay & also pay so adaptions you requested.
You might not like the above but its fact.

The OP stated ; 'Some small further work was commissioned at an agreed price of £50 via email no invoice was issued, there were also a specific request for the dimensions of the drawing evidenced in the email. Work was completed however the drawings were the wrong size and not to the specifications requested.'

So, the OP doesn't have to pay for the extra work as it wasn't as agreed, the OP quite rightly has refused to pay that and requested work is completed as per written agreement.








Edited By: andynicol on Jan 08, 2017 21:42
[helper]#19
Thanks all for you're comments

Have advised my family member to respond just detailing the chain of events back to the architect and will stand the ground on the dispute given the provision of services for the additional piece of work has still not been completed to the required spec and payment had already been made for the original piece of work. Will update here when I get any further updates.
#20
I had a similar experience with an architect he was a one man band but a bit of a lush. He did some nice plans and was really cheap. The council refused the plans because of simple errors on the architects plans (they had lots of dealings with him in the past). The planning officer felt sorry for me and resubmitted the plans himself after correcting them himself and they passed. The Architect kept sending me bills as I refused to pay him. I still have them in an envelope some were quite abusive but I refused to pay as his work was substandard. He threatened me with court,Bailiffs (which at the time was my profession),coming round himself to pick it up weekly. He was in my local one weekend and approached me while having a meal with my inlaws to cut a long story short he gave up eventually because he didn't have a leg to stand on. You are probably better to get someone else to look at your £50 job you never know they might feel sorry for you but I certainly wouldn't worry about paying the numpty who wants you to pay for substandard work. His name wasn't "Phil the Dog" by any chance?
#21
Leave a review of your experience, naming them, you would save someone from using them. I don't know why some people don't mention them. Surely if you found a review of the person you used this could have been avoided. Hope you see the benefits.
[helper]#22
nougat
I had a similar experience with an architect he was a one man band but a bit of a lush. He did some nice plans and was really cheap. The council refused the plans because of simple errors on the architects plans (they had lots of dealings with him in the past). The planning officer felt sorry for me and resubmitted the plans himself after correcting them himself and they passed. The Architect kept sending me bills as I refused to pay him. I still have them in an envelope some were quite abusive but I refused to pay as his work was substandard. He threatened me with court,Bailiffs (which at the time was my profession),coming round himself to pick it up weekly. He was in my local one weekend and approached me while having a meal with my inlaws to cut a long story short he gave up eventually because he didn't have a leg to stand on. You are probably better to get someone else to look at your £50 job you never know they might feel sorry for you but I certainly wouldn't worry about paying the numpty who wants you to pay for substandard work. His name wasn't "Phil the Dog" by any chance?

thanks wast Phil The Dog X)

dispute was resolved in the end - architect was given the £50 outstanding payment to draw a line on it (did advise my family member to stand their ground but just wanted a resolution)
#23
Chanchi32
nougat
I had a similar experience with an architect he was a one man band but a bit of a lush. He did some nice plans and was really cheap. The council refused the plans because of simple errors on the architects plans (they had lots of dealings with him in the past). The planning officer felt sorry for me and resubmitted the plans himself after correcting them himself and they passed. The Architect kept sending me bills as I refused to pay him. I still have them in an envelope some were quite abusive but I refused to pay as his work was substandard. He threatened me with court,Bailiffs (which at the time was my profession),coming round himself to pick it up weekly. He was in my local one weekend and approached me while having a meal with my inlaws to cut a long story short he gave up eventually because he didn't have a leg to stand on. You are probably better to get someone else to look at your £50 job you never know they might feel sorry for you but I certainly wouldn't worry about paying the numpty who wants you to pay for substandard work. His name wasn't "Phil the Dog" by any chance?
thanks wast Phil The Dog X)
dispute was resolved in the end - architect was given the £50 outstanding payment to draw a line on it (did advise my family member to stand their ground but just wanted a resolution)

You've got to chose your battles. £50 to make one you've not got an appetite for go away doesn't sound bad.

Edited By: nbgrobbo on Jan 23, 2017 23:41: In a rush earlier!
[helper]#24
nbgrobbo
Chanchi32
nougat
I had a similar experience with an architect he was a one man band but a bit of a lush. He did some nice plans and was really cheap. The council refused the plans because of simple errors on the architects plans (they had lots of dealings with him in the past). The planning officer felt sorry for me and resubmitted the plans himself after correcting them himself and they passed. The Architect kept sending me bills as I refused to pay him. I still have them in an envelope some were quite abusive but I refused to pay as his work was substandard. He threatened me with court,Bailiffs (which at the time was my profession),coming round himself to pick it up weekly. He was in my local one weekend and approached me while having a meal with my inlaws to cut a long story short he gave up eventually because he didn't have a leg to stand on. You are probably better to get someone else to look at your £50 job you never know they might feel sorry for you but I certainly wouldn't worry about paying the numpty who wants you to pay for substandard work. His name wasn't "Phil the Dog" by any chance?
thanks wast Phil The Dog X)
dispute was resolved in the end - architect was given the £50 outstanding payment to draw a line on it (did advise my family member to stand their ground but just wanted a resolution)
You've got to chose your battles. £50 to make one you've not got an appetite for doesn't sound bad.

True, main thing is that it's resolved.

Thanks for all the advice on here, appreciated.
#25
Shall i take a look and finish the job for you?
#26
cw018666
Shall i take a look and finish the job for you?

It depends...are you Phil the Dog? :{

Post an Answer

You don't need an account to leave a response. Just enter your email address. We'll keep it private.

...OR log in with your social account

...OR comment using your social account

Thanks for your comment! Keep it up!
We just need to have a quick look and it will be live soon.
The community is happy to hear your opinion! Keep contributing!