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Care Home Fees

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Elderly / Sick & Care Home Fees. Hi everyone. Not a nice topic Has anyone got a relative who is due or due to go into a care / nursing home who has been told they must pay their own fees by soc… Read More
Smartguy1 Avatar
7m, 3w agoPosted 7 months, 3 weeks ago
Elderly / Sick & Care Home Fees.

Hi everyone. Not a nice topic

Has anyone got a relative who is due or due to go into a care / nursing home who has been told they must pay their own fees by social services. This will only relate to anyone who has savings of more than £23,250 and / or owns their own home without another dependant relative living there. I would be interested to know your experiences as in the case with my Dad social services (SS) only seem interested if he owned his own home, had any savings, discussing deferred payment schemes and if I had access to his bank statements and I only went in to discuss my dad's long term care plans after only 2 weeks of him being in hospital following a major stroke. The social worker didn't even mention NHS continuous care which I have recently found out his assessment for this should have been done by the hospital PRIOR to the NHS wanting to hand my dad over to Social Services, which I believe is contrary to the 2014 Care Act. My gut feeling is they are looking at my dad to pay as he owns his own home and therefore has assets worth more than the current threshold and have totally disregarded the correct procedure.
Smartguy1 Avatar
7m, 3w agoPosted 7 months, 3 weeks ago
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zljhope
Continuing healthcare is not means tested. Has he had an assessment?

I did write a helpful post as well but I think it's disappeared after going live. Weird.


My gut feeling is they are looking at my dad to pay as he owns his own home and therefore has assets worth more than the current threshold and have totally disregarded the correct procedure.

You can do the checklist yourself that initiates the full assessment - albeit for your interest and it will tell you whether *he might* be eligible. To undergo a full NHS continuing healthcare assessment.....

" A full assessment for NHS continuing healthcare is required if there are:
• two or more domains selected in column A;
• five or more domains selected in column B, or one selected in A and four in B; or
• one domain selected in column A in one of the boxes marked with an asterisk (i.e. those domains that carry a priority level in the Decision Support Tool), with any number of selections in the other two columns.


Then go to this document: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213141/NHS-CHC-Checklist-FINAL.doc

Then go through the criteria yourself and it will allow you to see whether he may be eligible.

Then take said document back to the hospital / wherever he is currently being looked after to tell them he may be eligible and you would like a full assessment to be carried out ASAP and you are disappointed this has not already been done (Make sure it has not already been done and that they just didn't tell you!)

P.S. Try not to get bogged down in "Not following the correct procedure". He's either eligible or he is not, so focus on that. It's not like a bank where they hand out compensation for their error (If there is one at all).

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#1
Continuing healthcare is not means tested. Has he had an assessment?
#2
zljhope
Continuing healthcare is not means tested. Has he had an assessment?

I did write a helpful post as well but I think it's disappeared after going live. Weird.


My gut feeling is they are looking at my dad to pay as he owns his own home and therefore has assets worth more than the current threshold and have totally disregarded the correct procedure.

You can do the checklist yourself that initiates the full assessment - albeit for your interest and it will tell you whether *he might* be eligible. To undergo a full NHS continuing healthcare assessment.....

" A full assessment for NHS continuing healthcare is required if there are:
• two or more domains selected in column A;
• five or more domains selected in column B, or one selected in A and four in B; or
• one domain selected in column A in one of the boxes marked with an asterisk (i.e. those domains that carry a priority level in the Decision Support Tool), with any number of selections in the other two columns.


Then go to this document: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213141/NHS-CHC-Checklist-FINAL.doc

Then go through the criteria yourself and it will allow you to see whether he may be eligible.

Then take said document back to the hospital / wherever he is currently being looked after to tell them he may be eligible and you would like a full assessment to be carried out ASAP and you are disappointed this has not already been done (Make sure it has not already been done and that they just didn't tell you!)

P.S. Try not to get bogged down in "Not following the correct procedure". He's either eligible or he is not, so focus on that. It's not like a bank where they hand out compensation for their error (If there is one at all).
#3
zljhope
Continuing healthcare is not means tested. Has he had an assessment?

Hi thanks for your reply. Yes I know continuing healthcare is not means tested. I had quite a long post written but feared people would get bored reading so will try and keep this short but basically, in under one minute of me meeting the social worker in hospital she asked my if my dad owned his own home. This was at the nurse's station on the ward. She then went onto discuss other financial questions in front of my dad at his bedside which I thought was most unprofessional. He maybe cannot speak due to his stroke but he can certainly hear. Continuing healthcare was certainly NOT on her agenda and I had to request it. She said she would see what she could do.

The first concern I had was this social worker was totally alien to me. My dad has had the same one for the last two and a half years and I rang her on week one of my dad's care and she was on her way to visit him. His new social worker isn't even from this area and his original social worker now refuses to speak to me. I find this odd as we had a good relationship and she did a lot for my dad when he was receiving adult social care of which he paid for. Perhaps this new social worker is some form of "specialist" but I don't trust her one bit. His condition now is very severe and he cannot eat or drink or speak more than a couple of words. The stroke has affected all his left side and he is now bedridden. He cannot even open his eyes and has a catheter fitted and is incontinent. It is very sad but I am angry too as I feel that Social Services or should I say the new social worker is not working in our best interests. I have looked at the criteria form for CHC. My dad should score 4 to 5 ticks for Severe and only 2 are needed to meet the criteria for CHC.

In answer to your question if an assessment has been done it certainly wasn't confirmed by the social worker. My understanding is that the CHC assessment should be part of the discharge process as Social Services should not take on any patients without it as it leaves them vulnerable or at risk as to who should pay for the care and without having a current financial assessment on the patient how can they determine who is going to pay.

The discharge nurse is off for a few days so I will investigate further when she's back at work and see if an assessment has been done and if not then why not. If it has been done then I fear I may be opening a very large can of worms. Hopefully it's just an oversight but I am a very sceptical person by nature.

Edited By: Smartguy1 on Sep 25, 2016 23:27
#4
Smartguy1
zljhope
Continuing healthcare is not means tested. Has he had an assessment?
Hi thanks for your reply. Yes I know continuing healthcare is not means tested. I had quite a long post written but feared people would get bored reading so will try and keep this short but basically, in under one minute of me meeting the social worker in hospital she asked my if my dad owned his own home. This was at the nurse's station on the ward. She then went onto discuss other financial questions in front of my dad at his bedside which I thought was most unprofessional. He maybe cannot speak due to his stroke but he can certainly hear. Continuing healthcare was certainly NOT on her agenda and I had to request it. She said she would see what she could do.
The first concern I had was this social worker was totally alien to me. My dad has had the same one for the last two and a half years and I rang her on week one of my dad's care and she was on her way to visit him. His new social worker isn't even from this area and his original social worker now refuses to speak to me. I find this odd as we had a good relationship and she did a lot for my dad when he was receiving adult social care of which he paid for. Perhaps this new social worker is some form of "specialist" but I don't trust her one bit. His condition now is very severe and he cannot eat or drink or speak more than a couple of words. The stroke has affected all his left side and he is now bedridden. He cannot even open his eyes and has a catheter fitted and is incontinent. It is very sad but I am angry too as I feel that Social Services or should I say the new social worker is not working in our best interests. I have looked at the criteria form for CHC. My dad should score 4 to 5 ticks for Severe and only 2 are needed to meet the criteria for CHC.
In answer to your question if an assessment has been done it certainly wasn't confirmed by the social worker. My understanding is that the CHC assessment should be part of the discharge process as Social Services should not take on any patients without it as it leaves them vulnerable or at risk as to who should pay for the care and without having a current financial assessment on the patient how can they determine who is going to pay.
The discharge nurse is off for a few days so I will investigate further when she's back at work and see if an assessment has been done and if not then why not. If it has been done then I fear I may be opening a very large can of worms. Hopefully it's just an oversight but I am a very sceptical person by nature.

IF there are plans - even vague - to discharge your father into social services from the hospital over the next few days - you need to contact whoever has taken over the role of the discharge nurse tomorrow morning; not wait until she returns. There will always be somebody in charge of discharges; they don't suddenly slow down discharges as one person has gone on holiday.

Alternatively, there is a daily ward round and it should be consultant-led tomorrow morning/lunchtime - so if you are visiting your father anyway, hang around for it and express your concerns directly to the ward round team. Just be polite, they should document concerns in the medical notes & also write up a plan (i.e. plan to do the assessment)

Edited By: Firefly1 on Sep 25, 2016 23:43
#5
Most people sign the house over to a younger relative son/daughter with a written agreement that the person can live in the house until they no longer can

I think you may have left it too late now but seek legal advice asap. Unfortunately if its not been sorted out in time i think his assets are used to pay for care which is why most people do it years in advance to stop the government getting their slimey mitts on it lol
#6
My thoughts are with you.

My father has had several strokes and I know that it is hard to see your parent suffer and struggle. Thankfully my dad has made an excellent recovery, but I've seen the devastation strokes can cause and it's heartbreaking. Strokes are particularly cruel, stripping people of their dignity and who they are, leaving a shell of a person you once knew. You aren't alone dealing with this - if you need help just ask for it from the nurses, stroke association, friends, family etc.

Stay strong, keep striving for the best care and don't let this overwhelm you - take a few deep breaths and make sure you look after yourself. When looking after others we often forget to look after ourselves!

I would certainly contact the Stroke Association charity as they will be totally on the ball with the information you need and have intricate knowledge of the hoops you will have to jump through.
#7
Smartguy1 I feel for you and your dad. Cant offer any advice but my my mum had a similar stroke and was left without speech and paralysed down her right side. Its horrible. I hope you manage to sort things out. Definitely make sure you look after you!
#8
Thank you to everyone who has replied offering help and advice. It is very much appreciated in this difficult time and even though I know this has been coming for a few years since my dad has his first mini stroke it doesn't make it any easier.

Firefly1 - Yes, it always pays to be polite and have a nice approach. I did this on Sunday night to the nurse in charge who I had never seen before but knew everything about my dad's condition, care etc without even having to look at her notes once. I missed your first post as I was busy at the hospital. That advice was amazing thank you. We actually have a friend at the hospital to check if an assessment had been done. I can't get confirmation. However, his discharge notice has now been overwritten to remain in hospital. This is something we will never get to the bottom of and my sister is asking me to let it go. I feel that we have been severely let down by social services and the social worker involved would not appear to be working to the proper code of conduct and to have the attitude, he has assets, he can pay.

123batman321 - I checked on this a number of years ago when my dad was being hounded by a company specialising in such matters. Apparently our local councils are protected under the ruling of depravation, i.e. if they can prove this was done to avoid future care home fees, they can revert the transfer. Not read of any councils doing this as it may be time consuming and costly for them but possibly not worth the risk and as councils are now getting closer to 'bankruptcy' with budget cuts and increasing cost of adult social and nursing care it could be something they may wish to pursue. If you transfer a property in your early 60's and need care in your 80's you would probably be ok. I have told my daughter if I am her remaining parent she will need to sell her house and move into mine. What I wanted to do was for my wife and I to agree on our wills that when either one of us die instead of our share going to the other half that the share of our house goes to our two children. Then any future claim on my property could only be made on my share of the house and not on the whole of it as my son and daughter would each hold a third share or an equal interest in the property. The council would be unable to make a claim on their legacy. This is only ever an issue where you have one remaining parent left.

Sickly sweet & jude7219 - Thank you. I am trying to be strong.

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