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Croydon Tram crash

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My thoughts and prays go to the families of the seven who lost their lives today and those in hospital with appalling injuries. Why on earth wasn't the 'speed limiters' it was a 12 mph bend, driver… Read More
deany76 Avatar
5m, 2w agoPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
My thoughts and prays go to the families of the seven who lost their lives today and those in hospital with appalling injuries.

Why on earth wasn't the 'speed limiters' it was a 12 mph bend, driver clearly speeding, driver may have fallen asleep, is there a 'dead mans handle'

There should be a system in place that makes this impossible its 2016 it's not 1916

Whats going on?

BTW

Shame on the BBC for having the news as an after thought because that person 'agent orange' voted in as POTUS
deany76 Avatar
5m, 2w agoPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
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#1
it's a bit early to speculate but I agree 100% that there should be measures in place to prevent situations like this.

From what I heard, trams don't have speed dials to display the current speed however the lines they operate on do have a max speed limit. Who on earth didn't put two and two together.
#2
Amen!
#3
Only time will (hopefully) reveal the truth.
#4
On normal trains they have automated braking systems that are applied if the the train passes a circuit to fast - why this isn't a feature on trams that use the same/similar tracks is the question that needs to be answered (another cost cutting exercise by the Rail Network/companies?) Hopefully they will also have CCTV cameras watching the driver (like First Bus and other companies)

Trams are not fitted with any safety protection systems that apply the brakes automatically if they are going too fast, according to the Office of Rail and Road.
#5
Jumpingphil
Not to detract from driver error, but why on earth would you design a 12 M.P.H. bend in the year
2000?
the bend isn't that sharp really, next time they will come to you im sure

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10135/production/_92354856_croydon_tram_crash_map_624_v3.jpg
#6
Changes need to be made so a repeat of this accident never happens again.
As already said time will tell how it occured.
Asked about the driver, he said: "I asked him if he was OK. He said 'yeah'. I said to him 'what happened?' He said he thinks he blacked out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37932744
but surely all trams have a "dead mans handle" and or " foot pedal" so a "black out" would cause the tram to come to stop?



Edited By: deany76 on Nov 10, 2016 09:30: -
#7
I agree, with satnav, computer controlled systems and everything else there should be an override in case of driver error or death. I assume it's a case of it has never happened before so why invest in the system that will hit shareholder profits. The underlying question is will the shareholders take a hit on the improvements or will Tramlink just pass the costs off to the people.
#8
Sorry to quote The Sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2155066/first-victim-of-croydon-tram-crash-is-named-as-teenage-crystal-palace-fan-with-a-child-also-among-seven-dead/
that tram must have been hell on earth.
Must have been incredibly difficult for emergency services, respect to them.

RIP Dane



Edited By: deany76 on Nov 10, 2016 10:14
#9
deany76
Sorry to quote The Sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2155066/first-victim-of-croydon-tram-crash-is-named-as-teenage-crystal-palace-fan-with-a-child-also-among-seven-dead/
that tram must have been hell on earth.
Must have been incredibly difficult for emergency services, respect to them.

RIP Dane




A lot of my colleagues were called down (BTP), thankfully we have the resources spare, albeit reducing at an alarming rate. There's been a freeze on all recruitment for the end of the year and already had nearly ten officers leave for other forces the last three months :(
#10
McNabFish
deany76
Sorry to quote The Sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2155066/first-victim-of-croydon-tram-crash-is-named-as-teenage-crystal-palace-fan-with-a-child-also-among-seven-dead/
that tram must have been hell on earth.
Must have been incredibly difficult for emergency services, respect to them.
RIP Dane
A lot of my colleagues were called down (BTP), thankfully we have the resources spare, albeit reducing at an alarming rate. There's been a freeze on all recruitment for the end of the year and already had nearly ten officers leave for other forces the last three months :(

Gosh respect to you and all your colleagues they must be traumatised I hope there is support for them as well.
I'm thinking possible PTSD
#11
philphil61
On normal trains they have automated braking systems that are applied if the the train passes a circuit to fast - why this isn't a feature on trams that use the same/similar tracks is the question that needs to be answered (another cost cutting exercise by the Rail Network/companies?) Hopefully they will also have CCTV cameras watching the driver (like First Bus and other companies)
Trams are not fitted with any safety protection systems that apply the brakes automatically if they are going too fast, according to the Office of Rail and Road.

Trains do not have an automatic braking system they have systems that brake if they go through a red signals.
They get warnings if they go to fast but nothing else.
The trams network has nothing to do with Network rail and you might find that investment is at record levels in the rail network and network rail have nothing to do with the running of trains only track and signals.
Most trains have forward facing CCTV but not sure about trams.
#12
hutchir9
philphil61
On normal trains they have automated braking systems that are applied if the the train passes a circuit to fast - why this isn't a feature on trams that use the same/similar tracks is the question that needs to be answered (another cost cutting exercise by the Rail Network/companies?) Hopefully they will also have CCTV cameras watching the driver (like First Bus and other companies)
Trams are not fitted with any safety protection systems that apply the brakes automatically if they are going too fast, according to the Office of Rail and Road.
Trains do not have an automatic braking system they have systems that brake if they go through a red signals.
They get warnings if they go to fast but nothing else.
The trams network has nothing to do with Network rail and you might find that investment is at record levels in the rail network and network rail have nothing to do with the running of trains only track and signals.
Most trains have forward facing CCTV but not sure about trams.
I took the quote directly from the BBC news site
Trams are not fitted with any safety protection systems that apply the brakes automatically if they are going too fast, according to the Office of Rail and Road
To me that would assume trains are fitted with safety protection systems that apply the brakes automatically if they are going too fast
That to me is an automated braking system
I know the tram system has nothing to do with Network rail but they use the same tracks AFAIK
As for Network Rails record levels of investments is this because they didn't invest for decades and only because of several accidents etc and pressure from the government + government funding (paid by tax payers) support?
#13
No a buzzer goes off if they drive to fast, that's it no automatic braking for going to fast.
The investment I am speculating here is probably because as Railtrack they put profits first but now government owned they are trying to make up for lost investment.
Train operating companies are only bothered about profit not customers so the sooner the government owns the lot again the sooner we will have more trains and newer rolling stock instead of the old crap we have.
#14
Train was doing 43.5mph in a 12mph limit, incredible no speed limiter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38003934

or equal to 184.92 mph on a motorway



Edited By: deany76 on Nov 16, 2016 14:28
#15
deany76
Train was doing 43.5mph in a 12mph limit, incredible no speed limiter

Or put another way 3½ times the speed limit or 31½ mph over the speed limit. For a car driver that would be an automatic ban.
#16
nick1austin
deany76
Train was doing 43.5mph in a 12mph limit, incredible no speed limiter
Or put another way 3½ times the speed limit or 31½ mph over the speed limit. For a car driver that would be an automatic ban.

Not sure what you mean if comparing to a car on a motorway the tram was doing 114.92mph OVER the 70mph limit not 31 1/2mph that would be 101.5mph instant ban as over 100mph but not in the same league as 184.9mph which is the equivalent to what the tram was doing to put it in perspective
the word appalling comes to mind.

Edited By: deany76 on Nov 16, 2016 15:36
#18

Thanks for posting.
Yes I'm sure Man City fans will show respect on Saturday with Dane's Crystal Palace black arm bands and a round of applause after the minutes silence.

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