Follow-up from my post about my car spluttering and stopping (Citroen Xsarra Picasso) - HotUKDeals
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Follow-up from my post about my car spluttering and stopping (Citroen Xsarra Picasso)

£0.00 @ Citroen
I put a post on here a couple of weeks ago about my car spluttering and stopping when driving. My car has now been in and out of the garage for 3 weeks as the problem was not dealt with. Initially, I … Read More
Sophiasky Avatar
8m, 2w agoPosted 8 months, 2 weeks ago
I put a post on here a couple of weeks ago about my car spluttering and stopping when driving. My car has now been in and out of the garage for 3 weeks as the problem was not dealt with. Initially, I was told that the crank shaft sensor needed replacing, so I paid out £55 for that. Driving home, I thought that I felt a slight splutter and the next day it cut out on me twice on busy roads and started spluttering. I called the garage and they told me to take it back in. I was then told that they couldn't read the error codes so my car was taken to another garage by them. It came back that it was an electrical problem - with the crank shaft and the alternator. My garage said they were too busy and decided to leave my car with the other garage to sort out.

I got a phone call today to say that it was all done and ready to pick up, so paid out another £70. They told me that there was a corroded, green wire near the sensor that had got damp, so replaced it. I was also told that there was no earth strap under the bonnet, so they sorted that out. My car was really dusty, muddy and generally dirty when I collected it (after my garage had shut for the day), so I decided to get some petrol and go through the car wash - I then went through a drive thru' to get some food. Whilst at the drive thru', I noticed that my date and time lights on the dashboard were flashing constantly - I tried to press the buttons up and down to correct the details, but the buttons were totally jammed (was not like it before I left the car at the garage). Driving home (had done half a mile since getting petrol) my car started to splutter and all of the lights came on. The car got worse the closer to home I drove, and the last main road near my home, it was spluttering constantly big time - I only just managed to get the car parked up without breaking down.

Really fed up now, as I'm supposed to be driving it around 87 miles to Bristol Airport early on Monday morning (going on holiday). I've been going to my garage for years now (it's quite a large one with a lot of employees) and this time they have had my car in and out for 3 weeks trying to sort out the problem. I honestly don't want them looking at it any more, as they obviously can't sort the problem out (even with letting another mechanic at another garage having a look at it). I don't know if legally I am allowed to get a refund for this at all - any advice please? Thank you.
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Sophiasky Avatar
8m, 2w agoPosted 8 months, 2 weeks ago
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#1
May seem obvious but did you put the correct type of fuel in? Just a thought...
#2
Scrat
May seem obvious but did you put the correct type of fuel in? Just a thought...

Yes, it's a diesel car and diesel went in, thank you anyway.
#3
I've had bad fuel before from tescos , could be that
#4
don't know what to suggest, but feel for you - if I were in your shoes I'd be paying for my local Citroën dealership to check for error codes as they will have decent diagnostic equipment, and access to technical white papers.

good luck, we had a nightmare ongoing issue with our focus that no garage could find the cause of (revs were very low when idling) obviously that's not as serious as yours, but was a pain - in the end it was fixed inadvertently when they looked at something else.
#5
bluetba
don't know what to suggest, but feel for you - if I were in your shoes I'd be paying for my local Citroën dealership to check for error codes as they will have decent diagnostic equipment, and access to technical white papers.
good luck, we had a nightmare ongoing issue with our focus that no garage could find the cause of (revs were very low when idling) obviously that's not as serious as yours, but was a pain - in the end it was fixed inadvertently when they looked at something else.

Idle control valve, Very common on Focus.
#6
Maybe AA could check it over. :)
#7
Sorry to hear of your troubles, Sounds like you've got a bit of a lemon.

Anyway could be multiple things, I think I made a few suggestions in your last thread.

I would personally find your nearest Citroen/Peugeot specialist or go to a proper auto electrician and have the error codes read properly and go from there.

It could be a money pit because the problem could be multiple things but usually the proper diagnostic code/s would give you a better idea.
#9
Try a new crankshaft sensor, about £20 off eBay and you can bolt it in yourself.
#10
Fully_Legit
Try a new crankshaft sensor, about £20 off eBay and you can bolt it in yourself.

My garage fitted a new one around two weeks ago - they thought that was the problem, but driving it away from the garage it started to splutter and stop again! They took my car to another garage to read the codes and they were told it was a crank shaft problem and actuator one, even though my garage had fitted a new sensor. Does anybody know if I am legally able to get my money back - £55 for a new crank shaft sensor (and fitting) and yesterday, another £70 to sort out a coroded wire to the sensor (water damage apparently) and to fit an earth strap (that wasn't there). I'm going to phone my garage in a while, but don't know what to do if they refuse me my money back. They might say to take the car back (don't it will drive there now after the way it played up last night) for them to look at, but they've had it mainly in the garage for the best part of 3 weeks, so I don't think they know how to solve the problem - I also don't want to waste more money with them to be honest - also, they have jammed the buttons on my dashboard to change the date and time (which are now constantly flashing), which also needs looking at.
#11
I have a C4 Picasso and had a similar problem, the car seemed to loose power on hills and you had to ride the clutch to get up them, it went back a couple of times and the problem came back, I also noticed the cruise control stopped working, the fault ended up being an air leak in the manifold.
#12
this link will give you some info on what to do it there is a problem with a repair. and it details what your options are.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-car-repair/

you could contact the Consumer Helpline, which is now trading standards, and they will be able to tell you if you are able to report the garage(s) to trading standards 2nd /or what your next steps are.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/if-you-need-more-help-about-a-consumer-issue/
#13
daletharper
I have a C4 Picasso and had a similar problem, the car seemed to loose power on hills and you had to ride the clutch to get up them, it went back a couple of times and the problem came back, I also noticed the cruise control stopped working, the fault ended up being an air leak in the manifold.

I suppose the problem is, is that I'm paying out for things that my garage are saying are causing the problem, they tell me they have driven the car around on and off for a few hours and that the car drives perfect, then as soon as I attempt to drive it home it starts spluttering and shaking. I only got 1/2 a mile from collecting it from the garage when it started to play up. Last night was horrendous, I ended up driving it home around another mile with the car spluttering violently (and loudly) for the entire time (the car was pulling backwards and forwards violently as I was driving it) - before I last took the car in, it was spluttering around every mile or so, but last night it was continuous - the worst it has ever been. It's parked up outside my house now and I don't know what to do with it (I was supposed to be driving myself and my children to Bristol Airport really early on Monday morning in it for our holiday) I do have breakdown cover, but obviously if the car starts up for them, they're not going to do anything else - it seems to be when I have been driving for a few minutes that it starts playing up - surely, my breakdown cover would only cover me to be driven to a garage if the car has actually broken down, not if it's dangerous to drive the way it is?
#14
Don't go to the airport in it, drive it as little as possible while it's got issues as it'll not be doing it any good.

Unfortunately the garage will probably be trying their best to fix it, Sometimes though things are difficult to fix and you have to eliminate them one by one until the issue is solved, Trial and error starting with the cheapest fix/option first.

If you go to a Citroen/Peugeot specialist they will most probably have the proper diagnostics software and will know your engine inside and out.

They can use the diagnostics software to run tests and help eliminate false positives taking the guessing game away to some degree.

Yes they'll probably cost slightly more than your typical backstreet garage but their is a much better chance of your car being fixed.

Good luck.!
#15
Thank you for all the advice, much appreciated.
#16
we had one and the turbo packed in. you're not getting smoky exhaust are you. if it is that, you have my sympathy as we had to scrap ours due to cost of replacement turbo.
#17
do you run it low on fuel constantly? could be blocked injectors
#18
Or fuel filter
or fuel pump
or dpf
or catalyst
or egr
or vacuum leak in an hose somewhere?
or stuck valves
or faulty sensor somewhere
or glowplugs

The list is endless.!
#19
I had a similar problem on a focus. it would just cut out at 70mph or splutter. Took it to my trusty garage. He was honest with me and said take it to Ford. As the problem was intermittent I could spend hundreds with him doing repairs which did not fix the problem. He said Ford could put it on a diagnostic and know the exact problem. I did. Problem fixed. I think it problem mentioned above.
#20
teknoteknotekno
we had one and the turbo packed in. you're not getting smoky exhaust are you. if it is that, you have my sympathy as we had to scrap ours due to cost of replacement turbo.

Yes, that has been happening. I told the garage and they have done nothing about it. I was told that it was probably my fault for not doing enough 'long' drives - I explained that I do about 180 miles a week. I was then told to drive the car fast in a low gear (and not to change gears) until quite a high rev count, and that would help to clear any gunk that had built up in the exhaust.
#21
I only get the cloud of black smoke when I first start up the car in the morning.
#22
As Shaun says - you need a garage with the correct diagnostic stuff. If these places can't read the codes then they must only have fairly basic generic code readers - that isn;t going to sort your problem.
Say where you are and someone might be able to recommend somewhere.

I wouldnt expect a crank sensor to cause spluttering - i would expect that to cause cutting out and not restarting when hot. Spluttering that gets worse as the car warms up is more likely to be egr or injector failure.
#23
Sophiasky
teknoteknotekno
we had one and the turbo packed in. you're not getting smoky exhaust are you. if it is that, you have my sympathy as we had to scrap ours due to cost of replacement turbo.
Yes, that has been happening. I told the garage and they have done nothing about it. I was told that it was probably my fault for not doing enough 'long' drives - I explained that I do about 180 miles a week. I was then told to drive the car fast in a low gear (and not to change gears) until quite a high rev count, and that would help to clear any gunk that had built up in the exhaust.

Is that 180 miles around town or 180 miles on the motorway?

Anyway it is often a good way to help clear the soot away, basically when stop/start town driving, carbon builds up more, Carbon builds up in your egr, intake, exhaust manifold, dpf, turbo, catalyst etc.. etc...

Basically your car is slowly starting to suffocate, The carbon build up in the egr for example will restrict clean air entering the intake, if the carbon build up is bad it can prevent the egr valve from closing which is even worse as then it's only going to be taking in exhaust gases. Then the excess carbon will build up quicker in other places too, like the intake manifold which will further restrict airflow.
Clogged egr
http://www.greasecar.com/sites/greasecar.com/files/resize/article-images/clogged_egr-300x225.jpg
How it's supposed to look.

http://www.greasecar.com/sites/greasecar.com/files/resize/article-images/cleaned_egr-300x225.jpg

Then you've got the dpf which collects carbon to try and help reduce emissions, It is set to regenerate at specific intervals, Usually when driving at speed for a set period. If not doing much motorway mileage it could possibly of not had the chance to regenerate and they can and do clog causing various problems and are expensive to replace.

Basically when the cars computer decides it's time for a regeneration the dpf heats up to an extreme temperature, sometimes with the aid of a certain additive and burns off the collected carbon that has built up.

Then their is the turbo which again can clog up with carbon, they often have variable vanes which are suppose to open around 2500 - 3000 rpm but if clogged can become seized and fail to open or get stuck in either open or closed position etc..

Thrashing your car won't clear the intake but could help burn off the carbon that has built up in your turbo, dpf and catalyst.

basically get yourself on a nice empty national speed limit road where you can safely accelerate to 70, stay in 3rd gear all the way to 70 and stick at 70 for 4-5 miles, Do it a few times if you like it will help clear the cobwebs.!.

I doubt that will solve it but it's good practice, You could have your egr cleaned out or even disabled to see if that fixes it, egr clogging is a very, very common problem with diesels.

But it really could be anything causing the problem.

Diesels are brilliant for motorway driving but no good around town, Even if you do mainly motorway driving the previous owner could of been a to the shops and back kind of driver, It's horrible for a diesel. Short trips are killers but people won't listen :(, All they see is it'll do 50mpg, Well yes it will until it clogs up :(.
#24
Having the EGR cleaned would be a good thing to do.

Spluttering implies not getting decent combustion, on a petrol you might think timing/spark etc but there is none of that on a diesel - as long as enough air and diesel get into the engine then the engine will run.

Things like turbo or inlet leaks are likely to result in a loss of power and lots of smoke.

If the garage don't know what they are doing (and it doesn't sound as if they do) then a decent first step with a badly running diesel is to change the air and fuel filters and clean the egr.

Incidentally it isn't uncommon for garages to not change the fuel filter on an HDi engine because they are in a plastic housing which can be very difficult to open - depending on version - some of the housings have a socket mount but some dont and they can be a bit of a pig to open without breaking them, I know one specialist that used to replace the housing and filter as a matter of course on the basis that it was less hassle even if more expensive.


Edited By: mas99 on Aug 14, 2016 12:43
#25
Follow up - my car is still not sorted out. My old garage (now changed to another one!) replaced the crankshaft sensor and I still had the same problem. My car was then passed over to another mechanic who said that there was water ingression on a wire leading to the crankshaft sensor - he cleaned it up and also fitted a brown earth wire that was missing. I drove my car home that night and it was horrendous - my car shook violently nearly all of the way home. I was off on holiday for 10 days the following day, so had to leave the car parked up outside of my house. I have now given up on my old garage (paid out over £125 to them and the problem ended up being worse than ever) and after reading reviews on google changed over to another local garage. The new garage has said that the crankshaft sensor is still an issue and that they think it is an ECU (computer) problem. The ECU has been sent off to be looked at. At the moment, I am waiting to hear back from my new garage for the results of the ECU diagnostics.
#26
I'd like to add, that my new garage has loaned me a car whilst they try to sort out the problem with mine, so this means that I am now able to continue working (travel around to different towns, not just based in my local town).
#27
Could be the ECU at fault as garage suggest, weird and wonderful things can happen when an ECU goes bad, Like anything else electronic.

Good luck, keep us updated.
#28
shauneco
Could be the ECU at fault as garage suggest, weird and wonderful things can happen when an ECU goes bad, Like anything else electronic.
Good luck, keep us updated.

The garage sent my ECU to be checked and it was sent back saying that there was nothing wrong with it. My garage has now checked all of the wiring (said they have spent 5 days looking at my car but will only charge me for 3) and they can't find anything wrong with it. They have told me that they don't think that the ECU was checked thoroughly enough and have sent it back to be re-checked. Totally fed up with it all now as it's costing me so much. I initially paid out £125 to my old garage (part of that money was for a new sensor that they said I needed). I changed garages and my new bill with this garage is now standing at £381 (their diagnostic check, labour, and cost to send off the ECU to be checked (with postage on top). I'm hoping to hear back from them by Wednesday. My MOT expires today, but have told them not to do it until my car is hopefully fixed. Just wish that I had got rid of the car - I only paid £630 for it.
#29
Sounds like a right nightmare, Wish I could help you, I'd be reluctant to part with anymore cash, Typical being a Citroen and suffering with what might be an electrical problem.!.

Might be time to count your loses, Also bare in mind it could fail it's MOT on something catastrophic costing you hundreds more.! Could sell it spares or repairs.

An ecu from a scrapyard might be a cheaper option but it'd possibly need mapping, None of it is cheap.

A Citroen/Peugeot specialist might have been your best option but they might cost you alot more than the car is worth, It all adds up :(.

I can understand your frustration.

My uncle had a Peugeot partner van and had similar issues, They tried all sorts, He spent over £1000 trying to fix it and it was only worth £500.

He scrapped it in the end, thought it was cursed.!.




Edited By: shauneco on Sep 12, 2016 18:25
#30
shauneco
Sounds like a right nightmare, Wish I could help you, I'd be reluctant to part with anymore cash, Typical being a Citroen and suffering with what might be an electrical problem.!.
Might be time to count your loses, Also bare in mind it could fail it's MOT on something catastrophic costing you hundreds more.! Could sell it spares or repairs.
An ecu from a scrapyard might be a cheaper option but it'd possibly need mapping, None of it is cheap.
A Citroen/Peugeot specialist might have been your best option but they might cost you alot more than the car is worth, It all adds up :(.
I can understand your frustration.
My uncle had a Peugeot partner van and had similar issues, They tried all sorts, He spent over £1000 trying to fix it and it was only worth £500.
He scrapped it in the end, thought it was cursed.!.

Yes, I know I've got to draw the line somewhere. My garage have said that if it comes back again saying that nothing is wrong with the ECU, if I agree, they will ask the people who have the ECU, to replace all of the parts on it that are related to the crankshaft sensor, as that is what keeps coming up with the error codes even though the crankshaft sensor was replaced. My garage said that after they had checked the wiring on my car last week they took it for a long drive - apparently the car drove perfectly for 1 hour but then went back to the horrendous spluttering and cutting out that has been happening for weeks. I've got a horrible feeling that if the parts are replaced, and I pay out for an MOT, the car might drive ok for a day or two, and then that horrendous spluttering etc is going to return! It probably looks like I might end up getting rid of it and accepting my losses I think. Thank you for your advice anyway.
#31
I know I'd never trust it :(, It could still possibly be the ECU at fault, maybe when the ECU gets to a certain temperature their could be some micro-cracking or something dodgy, maybe the ECU only goes funny intermittently which might be extremely hard to detect unless it's at the time it's happening.

Really the best way to diagnose it is with live data, A proper auto electrician with the correct Citroen/Peugeot diagnostics software would run the car until it starts spluttering and read the live data. If the ECU was at fault the readings would be wrong and they could say for sure.

I hope they can sort it, Good luck.
#32
I had similar problems with my Zafira - eventually traced to http://www.ehow.co.uk/list_6005864_symptoms-faulty-lambda-sensor.html
#33
5 days to check the car over?

they were joking, right?

you could completely strip and rebuild it in that amount of time.

Edited By: eset12345 on Sep 12, 2016 19:59
#34
Dave_dave69
I had similar problems with my Zafira - eventually traced to http://www.ehow.co.uk/list_6005864_symptoms-faulty-lambda-sensor.html


This, had a saxo that displayed a terrible stuttering, jerking, lurching and idle revs. At its worst the engine would cut out whilst driving, like it had stalled, but hadn't and would come back to life either on its own or by turning the key. Wasn't that nice of experience in the dark when the power just died.

Lambda sensor cleaned. About £15 in total sorted it.

Edited By: Gynx on Sep 13, 2016 11:24: Mobile autocorection sucks
#35
I had a similar problem on my Megan spend £400 and it was just dirt clogging the filters these were changed and it was like a brand new.car... that's a simple thing to check and change and was missed by 2 garages prior..
#36
my old Peugeot 307 spluttered and cut out because the stop light sensor got stuck, fiver to replace, French electrics!
#37
Any updates?
#38
shauneco
Any updates?
Yes, I collected my car yesterday afternoon after it's MOT - I only had to have a bulb replaced and two ball joint covers. However, the expense was for the spluttering problem - this is what I was charged for:-

Diagnostic charge. Continued investigation into engine cutting out has found a loss of signal from the crankshaft sensor, sensor already replaced, road tested for live data to confirm. Tested all associated wiring for camshaft timing, traced fault to ECU. Sent ECU for testing, returned as o.k., tested all wiring in the loom for breaks, all o.k, resent ECU for testing and requested rebuild by 5v power output. Refitted the ECU and carried out various lengths of road tests, all o.k.

I drove the car for around 76 miles last night and it drove perfectly. However, I am going on a slightly longer run tomorrow afternoon, so am hoping that it still runs fine. Thank you for asking about a follow-up by the way.
#39
You're welcome, that sounds very positive, I'm sure it'll be fine now :). All the best :).
#40
shauneco
You're welcome, that sounds very positive, I'm sure it'll be fine now :). All the best :).

Thank you.

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