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Help with NCP charge

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I would really value your help as I am furious this has happened. Today I received a PCN from National Car Parks Limited, through the post. The tube station's ANPR cameras picked up my vehicle. … Read More
sparkler2016 Avatar
6m, 2w agoPosted 6 months, 2 weeks ago
I would really value your help as I am furious this has happened.

Today I received a PCN from National Car Parks Limited, through the post.
The tube station's ANPR cameras picked up my vehicle.
The letter has provided photographic evidence being my vehicle head lamp lights only. I cannot see the registration at all, as its dark in image and this was gone 5pm.
However they have detected my registration hence sent the fine.

It has been awhile since I have visited this station to pick up family members and never noticed anything, until now.
I causally drove in as I would do in past, I went to turn the car and drive to top where parking is limited so sometimes I simply park and wait in bays available in open car park.
On the day in question being christmas eve the car park was practically empty with a mere handful of cars.

The fine is £100 or if paid within 14 days it is a reduced rate of £60.

My biggest annoyance and worry is I have another two pcn's on the way as have done this twice again since christmas eve.

I would really appreciate some advice. Please note I am a blue badge holder and my vehicle is a motobility vehicle, should this help me in any way.
sparkler2016 Avatar
6m, 2w agoPosted 6 months, 2 weeks ago
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Responses/page:
#1
From what you've said it's not clear what the pcn is for...? overstaying, parking in a disabled bay, etc...?
#2
Try searching for parking fines on Martins Money saving expert. I'm sure there is a bit on there about the legality of these fines, ie you are not legally obliged to pay them.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
#3
They simply put my registration on letter and said I entered car park at 5:13pm. No mention of time I stayed in car park.
I waited perhaps 15mins.

This tube station car park charges by the day £4.20 a car when I have looked onlien.
#4
Long read but should help.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

That is basically an invoice and not pcn(issued only by council or police).


Edited By: Ruffuz on Jan 04, 2017 22:36
#5
rhinopaul
Try searching for parking fines on Martins Money saving expert. I'm sure there is a bit on there about the legality of these fines, ie you are not legally obliged to pay them.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/


I have looked but feel so confused so many mixed things said but no mention of a NCP. Just the usually pcn charges slapped on windscreen
#6
It is also not clear if this is being pursued using Railway Byelaws or POFA 2012. I have PM'd you a specialist site.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/
#7
Ruffuz
Long read but should help.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

That is basically an invoice and not pcn(issued only by council or police).



I have looked at this and this is only speaking of the typical parking fines slapped on windscreen and not anpr camera ticket. Thank you
#8
On the site look out for or PM SCHOOLRUNMUM. She has particular expertise with Disability related issues.
#9
ask them for further evidence it's your car as you cannot make out the reg.
they will drop it. it's not a legal ticket anyway
#10
I would have thought the same applies. First appeal against it, Should be something on the letter about it.
#11
Should you have paid to go in it? If so this sort of thing will happen.
#12
You say that this is not a legal ticket. Can it go against me or my name by ignoring it any fool proof way of knowing this.

The photograph as I mentioned shows head lamps of a car. Could be any car as phot is black but two white dots of light. The photo has not date or time stamp.
Tho I do not revote that its me.
#13
I have ignored parking charge notices in the past, but some companies have now taken people to court and won, even though the charge does not seem particularly 'reasonable'. I would contact them and clarify what the charge is for and ask for clear photographic evidence which includes a legible number plate (if they do not have this they are likely to drop it).

Edited By: Mermoo on Jan 04, 2017 22:54
#14
Were you supposed to pay for parking there?

Edited By: memmmememe on Jan 04, 2017 22:56
#16
memmmememe
Were you supposed to pay for parking there?


Apparently so but never left my car. But clearly by just entering the station car park I received a fine. So annoying spent my entire life doing this routine. Never noticed anything different this time as was not looking for it.
#17
sparkler2016
memmmememe
Were you supposed to pay for parking there?
Apparently so but never left my car. But clearly by just entering the station car park I received a fine. So annoying spent my entire life doing this routine. Never noticed anything different this time as was not looking for it.

Not leaving your car isn't the point. If you're supposed to pay, then you should pay the fine. Staying in your car doesn't mean you weren't parked. I'd try appealing it, but wouldn't hold out much hope to be honest.
#18
I am still confused as to the actual parking restrictions and exactly what the PCN is for? Is there a minimum pick up and drop off time? The PCN must state exactly what the charge is for.
Also, I believe PCNs can only be issued against the driver of the vehicle and not necessarily the Registered Keeper. Ask for photo evidence of the driver, if they cannot provide it you have no legal obligation to disclose who was driving.
As for the blue badge issue the restrictions should be posted, if restrictions include blue badge holders it has to say so, probably in very small print.
#19
What does it say about blue badge parking? Do you still have to pay or is it free? As this varies from car park to car park. And that might be a way out
#20
just a legalised milking of motorists,as I understand it, this is not a fine but a breach of contract,the charge is against the driver not the car owner and you didn't need to declare who the driver was-i had a similar case a few years ago where i overstayed the free period and a camera sent a 'fine' to my wife who is the owner (I was the driver) and after checking on the net the sequence of letters followed the set pattern gradually rising in cost until the final one which was a 'court' date in a distant locality with a potential £300+ cost for solicitors etc,I ignored all the letters and decided when a court says i have to pay then i will pay but nothing happened.It is an pretty worrying time tho-with private parking firms its their word against yours and while they may take to you court they have to prove that A/ its your car and B/you were the driver- which from the photos they cant,the camera might have picked up the registration but they have to prove it, they rely on people bottling it and paying up,they dont want to take people to court because they might well lose -remember its a civil matter not a criminal one-read up but stand your ground and dont admit anything,once you pay you have little chance of getting it back

Edited By: hmv4u on Jan 04, 2017 23:27: extra info
#21
londonlad19
What does it say about blue badge parking? Do you still have to pay or is it free? As this varies from car park to car park. And that might be a way out


The website does not state this.

https://www.ncp.co.uk/find-a-car-park/car-parks/totteridge-and-whetstone-stn-lul/
#22
hi there i used to work in the car parks for ncp before they went to anpr but was traied on these when first come in use.
the rules are you get 10 mins in the carpark to look for a space before they charge you and in the car park will be a maching u have to type your registration in and then pay the daily charge and then will be taken off the system if daily charge isnt paid after a day or 2 the computer picks this up and you recive a fine ,
they usually take a picture of when you entered and exited the car park.
the thing with blue badge you would have to let them know you have that and say thats why you was waiting in the car but im sure blue badge holders i think still have to pay.
hope this helps
darren
#23
may i ask where the car park was
#24
How long were you parked up for? You didn't go into detail on this. If you sat there for forty minutes then it doesn't really matter if you were still in the car.
#25
I'd normally say it ignore it, but the more charges you rack up, the more the appetite they have for court action.
#26
OP - I dont think you will get the advice you want until you answer some of the questions thrown back at you..the main one being what does the signs in the car park say? Not the website but the actual signs? If you didnt read the signs it means you were ignorant as to the facts and therefore have no excuse if you infringed the restrictions and should pay.
#27
watchdog did a programme on pcn's worth a watch , as far as I can recall they said if its not from the police ir the council dont worry about it
#28
If you appeal the fine the fine is paused at the lower limit until the appeal have been reviewed, your best bet is to check the signs and f disabled permit holders are exempt then appeal on that basis, if your wait in the car park were for 5 minutes or less you could appeal on that basis and any reasonable adjudicator may give you the benefit of the doubt. If the signage isn't clear that there is an immediate charge upon entering the car park you can appeal on those grounds too. if you appeal and NCP say no you can appeal to an external adjudicator, if you do and they feel the appeal has been frivolous they can also apply a charge to the penalty and you wont be entitled to the discount any more either. Regardless appeal the first part and you never know they may allow change it to a warning from a fine but it would only work once.
#29
ALL:
Do not ignore these tickets. The law changed in 2012 and even private parking companies can come after you. If anyone gets a ticket take a look at this site http://www.pepipoo.com/
You will get free help and advice.


Edited By: getmeone on Jan 05, 2017 06:42: Link
#30
You have three choices; ignore the fine and see what happens; pay it; or appeal.

If you are certain there is no photographic evidence of you entering or leaving the car park then it will be an easy appeal. They should drop it right away - however I suspect there will be a clear picture somewhere (which is how they 'caught' you breaking the rules).

Ultimately though, private parking companies rarely pursue fines through to the court stage for such a minor offence, particularly if there's little or no evidence.

If it were me I'd write to them asking for actual photographic evidence, then take it from there. They might never come back to you.
#31
Yup, join pepipoo. There are people on there who are effectively experts in this and they were very helpful to me.
#32
alexc100
You have three choices; ignore the fine and see what happens; pay it; or appeal.
If you are certain there is no photographic evidence of you entering or leaving the car park then it will be an easy appeal. They should drop it right away - however I suspect there will be a clear picture somewhere (which is how they 'caught' you breaking the rules).
Ultimately though, private parking companies rarely pursue fines through to the court stage for such a minor offence, particularly if there's little or no evidence.
If it were me I'd write to them asking for actual photographic evidence, then take it from there. They might never come back to you.
I think you are mistaken. The courts are full of Parking companies and the government is looking into what is effectively abuse of the court system by these companies. They believe the courts are being used as "Debt Collection" agencies. NEVER IGNORE!!!!!

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