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parking/dropped pavement.

pud55 Avatar
2y, 1w agoPosted 2 years, 1 week ago
A house in my street has paved their front garden for car parking. They have not paid to drop the pavement. Parking is at a premium because of the number of houses doing this. I know it is illegal to park at a dropped pavement but what about in front of the paved garden? I don't want to get into the good relationship with neighbours discussion here, just the legality, or not, of the parking!

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pud55 Avatar
2y, 1w agoPosted 2 years, 1 week ago
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(1)
Who parks in front of a neighbours drive if they use it for parking?!?!?!?
Jesus wept.

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#1
Well technically the highway is for the "passage of vehicles". So technically and legally you cant park anywhere. This is why when councils were given control of the local parking they had to make them parking bays (so they are no longer part of the highway) otherwise you could park there without having to pay as you could get away with it siting the council would be procuring payments for an illegal activity.

However common sense must prevail.

If this person now has a drive the opening would take up less space than if they parked on the road. So you should leave them the space to get out.

Maybe you should look into off street parking yourself?
#2
If there's no "keep clear" sign and the pavement isn't dropped, then just park there. There's a guy on my road who's done the exact same thing, but I pay council tax and paid £30 for the parking permit, therefore I have a right to park there as much as the next guy.
#3
We should follow the Japanese example;

http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/parking/
#4
Last thing I read on this subject was how councils were under pressure to create more off road parking opportunities so they were happy to drop pavements and were accepting as many applications as possible. I would expect that if they applied they would get permission - perhaps they have applied and are just waiting for the council to come and do the work? Either way seems pretty pointless parking in front to cause an argument, If they didn't park off the road then they would just park on the road and take up a space.
#5
GAVINLEWISHUKD

However common sense must prevail.

If this person now has a drive the opening would take up less space than if they parked on the road. So you should leave them the space to get out.

Well said!! Why cause problems and shoot yourself in your own foot!!.
#6
nbuuifx
Last thing I read on this subject was how councils were under pressure to create more off road parking opportunities so they were happy to drop pavements and were accepting as many applications as possible. I would expect that if they applied they would get permission - perhaps they have applied and are just waiting for the council to come and do the work? Either way seems pretty pointless parking in front to cause an argument, If they didn't park off the road then they would just park on the road and take up a space.
Well said!! Why cause problems and shoot yourself in your own foot!!.
#7
Paving over front gardens requires planning permission under most circumstances due to flooding considerations. If you really want to be neighbourly, dob them in. Probably end up with one/two more cars parking on the street but, hey, you don't want the good neighbour discussion, right?
#8
I was under the impression that you can park over their 'driveway' if there are no vehicles parked on there. I'd speak to the council if I were you.
#9
momartin
I was under the impression that you can park over their 'driveway' if there are no vehicles parked on there. I'd speak to the council if I were you.

You are right.
You can park on the road next to the kerb in front of the front garden if they is no car parked there.
You can also park there if there is a car parked there.
You just have to leave any lowered kerbs free for access.


Edited By: nacho99 on Jan 11, 2015 17:58
#10
Who parks in front of a neighbours drive if they use it for parking?!?!?!?
Jesus wept.
#11
willhay555
Who parks in front of a neighbours drive if they use it for parking?!?!?!?
Jesus wept.
Well said!! Why cause problems and shoot yourself in your own foot!!.
#12
Our local authority charge £2000 to drop a kerb and yes, you need planning. If your street has parking permits, then you should have an allocated space. If not and until Planning is sought and the respective fees paid, you can park in front of their house. It is not illegal to block them in, if their kerb isn't dropped, but do you really want to cause an argument and or upset your neighbours?
#13
willhay555
Who parks in front of a neighbours drive if they use it for parking?!?!?!?
Jesus wept.

that's the whole point, is not a drive way! it is a paved front garden which they access by driving over both the curb and pavement!
#14
I've got my front driveway lockblocked now and the council want £39 for application and an approved contractor on their list to carry out the work and the cheapest contractor I found was £1000 for dropping the kerb :(
#15
Why would you want to upset your neighbours like that. Loads of people I know have done this and I would never park there, permit or not.

Some people just go looking for trouble!
#16
lianne21
Why would you want to upset your neighbours like that. Loads of people I know have done this and I would never park there, permit or not.

Some people just go looking for trouble!
Well said!! Why cause problems and shoot yourself in your own foot!!.
#17
You need to call the local authority and ask them, as the answer is different from council to council. It's pointless asking on here.Most council websites will have the answer if you don't want to call them, or have a look through the council byelaws online.
#18
You have to think what it would be like if it was the other way round. Say you had your car parked in your drive/front garden and someone blocked you in by parking across your drive/front garden. How would you feel about it then, what if you had an emergency at like 2-3am and couldn't get out because someone had parked across drive/front garden and you have to go and knock them up to move them car.
#19
asked this question to a police officer once his response was it would be an offense to block someone in just in case they need to get out in an emergency but you can block someone out
#20
It's ethics/morals over legality

Ethically the neighbour has done something positive to reduce on-street parking issues and morally it's in the interest of his neighbours to allow him access to use his "new space". What the neighbour shouldn't do is put up any signs stating 24 hour access required

Legally the neighbour shouldn't have converted his front garden without correct permission and because there is no dropped kerb cars can park in front of the neighbours property.
#21
char7ie2008
Our local authority charge £2000 to drop a kerb and yes, you need planning. If your street has parking permits, then you should have an allocated space. If not and until Planning is sought and the respective fees paid, you can park in front of their house. It is not illegal to block them in, if their kerb isn't dropped, but do you really want to cause an argument and or upset your neighbours?

Are you sure??

Our application was free, the application was accepted and the quote to lower the pavement was £278. Approx timescale 2 months.
#22
That is well cheap :(
#23
If they have not had the kerb lowered, then they are crossing the footway illegally. a dropped kerb also strengthens the footway as it is designed for pedestrians, not vehicles. They may find they could be fined by the highways department if the footway is damaged by their vehicle.
#24
Yes I'm sure as we had to pay to do it ;) each LA is different I guess ;)
#25
gtsteel
If they have not had the kerb lowered, then they are crossing the footway illegally. a dropped kerb also strengthens the footway as it is designed for pedestrians, not vehicles. They may find they could be fined by the highways department if the footway is damaged by their vehicle.

I agree, that's my point!
#26
On my council website-

As a guide, crossings are likely to cost in the region of £1,000. A non-refundable fee of £92 is charged for the survey, which must be included with the application form.
#27
philphil61
It's ethics/morals over legality

Ethically the neighbour has done something positive to reduce on-street parking issues and morally it's in the interest of his neighbours to allow him access to use his "new space". What the neighbour shouldn't do is put up any signs stating 24 hour access required

Legally the neighbour shouldn't have converted his front garden without correct permission and because there is no dropped kerb cars can park in front of the neighbours property.

creating off street parking is not a positive way to reduce on street parking issues. All that is achieved is that he always has somewhere to park ( by legally or illegally crossing both curb and footpath) and reducing the availability for other householders to park on road!
#28
If you want to stir trouble dob him in for damaging the kerb by driving over a kerb to his drive.

Not going to get you a parking space though.
#29
It's an offence to cross a footpath in a vehicle, without permission, so it isn't a driveway.
#30
bonjourhellfire
It's an offence to cross a footpath in a vehicle, without permission, so it isn't a driveway.


Really?, show us the law that pertains to that.
#31
Inactive
bonjourhellfire
It's an offence to cross a footpath in a vehicle, without permission, so it isn't a driveway.

Really?, show us the law that pertains to that.

Well they are kind of right, they just missed the 2nd (relevant) part of law - Highways Act 1980 by the way

Anyone who drives a motor vehicle on a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway without permission is committing an offence. This does not apply if the driver stays within 15 yards of the road, only goes on the path to park and does not obstruct the right of passage.

Surrey council give a good guidelines as to why proper crossovers are important eg underground cables etc

http://new.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/32711/16th-VCO-Guide-Notes-November-2014.pdf

Edited By: mrwhitelabel on Jan 12, 2015 01:30
#32
mrwhitelabel
Inactive
bonjourhellfire
It's an offence to cross a footpath in a vehicle, without permission, so it isn't a driveway.


Really?, show us the law that pertains to that.


Well they are kind of right, they just missed the 2nd (relevant) part of law - Highways Act 1980 by the way

Anyone who drives a motor vehicle on a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway without permission is committing an offence. This does not apply if the driver stays within 15 yards of the road, only goes on the path to park and does not obstruct the right of passage.

Surrey council give a good guidelines as to why proper crossovers are important eg underground cables etc

http://new.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/32711/16th-VCO-Guide-Notes-November-2014.pdf


So that makes them kind of wrong then.. (_;)
#33
You could just go and punch him in the face, and get it out of your system....or wait until he leaves so you can put your beach towel down where his car was? Also how do you know he hasn't paid ? You don't work in the planning dept, and are trying to find justification for doing something that at best could be described as un-neighbourly, or at worst, downright obnoxious. The comment above has got it just about right......but I think you might struggle to understand the part about morals or ethics. Rather than be petty.....you could go and apply to have your own pavement dropped, and proper parking put in for yourself.....and be a shining example to your neighbours and society as a whole.
#34
Am sure it would not be too difficult (if you have a grasp on basic building work) to drop the kerb yourself or are the council running a monopoly on kerb dropping ?
#35
Councils run monopolies on kerb dropping. I know ours threaten fines plus charge for it to be redone if you fo it yourself.
#36
we were quoted £1500 last week for a dropped kurb in York
#37
kerb*
#38
Chumba_Wumba
You could just go and punch him in the face, and get it out of your system....or wait until he leaves so you can put your beach towel down where his car was? Also how do you know he hasn't paid ? You don't work in the planning dept, and are trying to find justification for doing something that at best could be described as un-neighbourly, or at worst, downright obnoxious. The comment above has got it just about right......but I think you might struggle to understand the part about morals or ethics. Rather than be petty.....you could go and apply to have your own pavement dropped, and proper parking put in for yourself.....and be a shining example to your neighbours and society as a whole.

i think we can assume he hasnt paid, as there isnt an actual dropped kerb there.
#39
TDog123
Am sure it would not be too difficult (if you have a grasp on basic building work) to drop the kerb yourself or are the council running a monopoly on kerb dropping ?

they generally have to be done from a list of approved contractors due to the other aspects at play - underground cables, pipes, load strengthening etc that may also need to be done that a cowboy wouldnt necessarily do.
#40
mrwhitelabel
TDog123
Am sure it would not be too difficult (if you have a grasp on basic building work) to drop the kerb yourself or are the council running a monopoly on kerb dropping ?
they generally have to be done from a list of approved contractors due to the other aspects at play - underground cables, pipes, load strengthening etc that may also need to be done that a cowboy wouldnt necessarily do.

Or it might just be they like to keep it a closed shop for their 'approved' contractors. You only have to look at the state of most road resurfacing to know being approved is no guarantee of quality.

To the OP, off-street parking means they have freed up at least one space on the road. Just be thankful instead of the annoying neighbour you are coming across as.

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