Postman forged signature on tracked parcel and alleges to have left outside - HotUKDeals
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Postman forged signature on tracked parcel and alleges to have left outside

rachelandgromit Avatar
2y, 3m agoPosted 2 years, 3 months ago
This problem stems back from the beginning of May. I ordered a near £200 camera, new from Ebay from a business seller, posted was tracked. I was waiting on a couple of items (clothes purchased from Ebay too) as all of them we needed for our holiday. When I had the red Royal Mail calling card through the door, it just said 'item left in red recycle box'. It was a Wednesday and collection day so the boxes were on the front lawn. When I went to check there was no item. As I didn't know which parcel it was, I checked the tracked package online using the information the seller provided. Imagine my shock when I saw a signature saying the item had been delivered on that day (screen shot obtained). This was a Wednesday.

I immediately contacted the seller on Ebay who basically said they could see it was tracked and showing up as delivered. On the Saturday morning I went into the Royal Mail sorting office (I would have done this sooner but the times it opens are when I was in work), took in ID with my signature and explained that the postman had forged my signature. I was told this would be raised and a manager would ring me back. I was going on holiday for 3 weeks but said I would be contactable over the phone.

In the meantime I raised a dispute with Ebay which was settled in favour of the seller as the item had been 'delivered' (I completely understand this decision but it is not helping me and getting the money back). Royal Mail did not contact me whilst on holiday and since returning home I have raised this with Royal Mail through their formal complaints process. Their initial response was not helpful and it took over 3 weeks before I had a reply with a standard apology and telling me that the seller needs to raise a claim and to complete form

I have sent at least half a dozen emails to the seller, asking and begging that they complete the form but they have completely ignored them. I have contacted Royal Mail again and I find their response completely patronising, a standard email that is useless. Would you progress this via the Escalated Customer Resolution Team? If anyone can help I would be really grateful.

So this was their first response:

I'm sorry to hear about problems you experienced with Royal Mail Tracked item ***. Of the huge volumes of letters and packets we handle, very few encounter a problem along their way - but we take every single failure seriously, so I'm sorry that you've had cause to contact us.

I fully appreciate the risk to the security of your mail if our postmen and women do not follow our procedures. It's important that our customers have confidence in us to always deliver their mail securely and to a high standard, so I apologise again that we have let you down.

To deal with this problem, and based on the information you've provided, I have been able to take the following action:

• Logged and reported the full details of your complaint
• Checked the service information available to me to ensure there are no related issues in your area
• Passed these details to the manager of the Delivery Office.

The Delivery Office Manager will do all that is required to ensure you receive the quality of service you should expect in future.

Turning to your claim for compensation, please ask the sender of this item to complete and submit our 'Lost, damaged or delayed inland mail - claims form' (also known as a P58) provides customers with the appropriate framework to help them understand what information is needed to help us conclude their and our enquiries as efficiently as possible. This form can be completed online at: http://www.royalmail.com/p58

All Royal Mail Tracked item claims must come from the sender, who will be able to provide the necessary documentation for the claim.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about this matter and I hope you will accept my apologies, once again, for any inconvenience and annoyance we may have caused. Please be assured that we will use this information to make further improvements. In the unlikely event that you experience any further problems of this nature though, please contact us again by emailing us at [email protected], quoting reference number***

I responded saying the following:

To whom it may concern

I have reviewed your response below and I am still not happy.

As described, I bought the camera lens, new from Ebay from a business seller. When this was not received, I initially took this up with the seller and logged a dispute with Ebay and Paypal, sending all the supporting documents and tracking information to Ebay. At the same time I also attempted to contact Royal Mail. You will notice in my original email to you I visited the Sorting Office in Northwich before going on holiday and no-one returned my telephone call. Whilst I was on holiday, I was contacted by Ebay who ruled in favour of the seller because the seller could prove that the item had been signed for, which I described to you below. This was because an employee from Royal Mail fraudulently signed for a packaged addressed to me and alleges to have left an expensive camera lens in a recycle box on the front garden on collection day, however this cannot be proven.

As you suggested, I have contacted the seller and asked that they fill in the claim forms, however the seller is not responding to any of my emails. I am at a loss to understand why this claim form needs to be completed as it is for, as you quote, 'Lost, damaged or delayed inland mail'. My package is neither lost, damaged or delayed, it was signed for by a Royal Mail employee so clearly was handled by the Postman. Clearly a Royal Mail employee has not only committed fraud and forged my signature, but has possibly stolen an item of mail belonging to me. This is a fact that you appear to have overlooked in your email response.

Then this is a reply we have had this morning:

I am sorry to learn that you were dissatisfied with my colleague's previous response and for the issues you have experienced regarding the item ***



I must confirm that items sent using our Royal Mail Tracked service must be referred to the sender for any investigations to take place, please accept my apologies.



I can advise that the full details of your complaint have been logged and reported to the local delivery office for internal investigation.



I appreciate that this will come as a disappointment to you as this is not the outcome that you were looking for but I hope that my explanation has been helpful in setting out why I have taken this decision. However if you are still not satisfied with our response you can escalate your complaint to our Escalated Complaints Resolution Team as detailed in our complaints handling process details on our website.



The Escalated Complaints Resolution Team can be contacted by email to [email protected]. Alternatively you can write to: Escalated Customer Resolution Team, Royal Mail, PO Box 466, Plymouth, PL9 7HJ. If you do contact the team please can I ask you to quote your reference number
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rachelandgromit Avatar
2y, 3m agoPosted 2 years, 3 months ago
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Top Responses

(1)
How can RM claim it was signed for then admit left in r/bin? I'd ask at the sorting office for a full explanation and refund or you'll get the police involved..

Edited By: CookinBat on Jul 01, 2014 19:51

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#1
tl;dr
#2
Why did you raise a dispute with the seller if you knew it had nothing to do with him? I'd probably ignore you too.
#3
what name was signed?.....
does the scanner have GPS?...is.ref number correlate to your address and time when scanned?

are you absolutely certain that a postie left it in the box? and do you have proof?

do you have any CCTV?

have you spoken to the recycling crew?

is this a crime?
do the police need to be informed?
#4
or are you another potential fraud case?
#5
I would think that as the seller is the customer of the Royal Mail and paid for their service it would be logical for them to take it up with Royal Mail. Usually anything that has to be traced has to start at the start, if you know what I mean.
Having said that it really sucks and someone needs to use a bit of common sense to sort this out for you.
Do any of your neighbours have CCTV?
#6
RossD89
Why did you raise a dispute with the seller if you knew it had nothing to do with him? I'd probably ignore you too.

I did this as I was going on holiday and if I left it any longer I was worried I had no come back and wouldn't be able to raise a dispute. I did put a note to the seller and to Ebay explaining that I was doing this so the seller could raise it to Royal Mail. it wasn't just a case of opening a dispute without explaining why.

Yes sorry, lots of detail - just hoping someone will help. Normally posty has left items with neighbours or sometimes put them behind the bin which is down the side of the drive out of sight, but left in the recycle box on front of the lawn.
#7
fawkes99
what name was signed?.....
does the scanner have GPS?...is.ref number correlate to your address and time when scanned?

are you absolutely certain that a postie left it in the box? and do you have proof?

do you have any CCTV?

have you spoken to the recycling crew?

is this a crime?
do the police need to be informed?

Will you let the Op answer your first seven questions before asking another?
#8
Try a Paypal chargeback. I never read the whole thread so don't know if you still can or have already tried.
#9
Would the postie know it was a £200 camera? not worth him losing his job over nicking some crapping eBay item which could have been worth couple of quid. Maybe some 3rd party saw him leave it.
#10
fawkes99
what name was signed?.....
does the scanner have GPS?...is.ref number correlate to your address and time when scanned?
are you absolutely certain that a postie left it in the box? and do you have proof?
do you have any CCTV?
have you spoken to the recycling crew?
is this a crime?
do the police need to be informed?

Name signed was my name as it would have been on the parcel - I will upload the info now, details blocked out - give me a min. The refuge collection was on a Wednesday, then we went away for just over 3 weeks. Our recycle guys are different, we have different recycle collections and recycle and garden waste one week and recycle and household waste another with different lorries collecting different waste so it could be the plastic people/the paper people or the glass people and I have not spoken with them purely as leave work before I see them. No, posty wouldn't have any idea what the item was, I am guessing it would have been packaged properly and not in a Nikon box!! We don't have CCTV and neither does our neighbour, we do have a police officer next door but one but we are quite pally with our neighbours but they generally all work full time and aren't always about in the day and no-one saw anything. And no, I am not a potential fraud, just want my money back for something I didn't get and still need!!


Edited By: rachelandgromit on Jul 01, 2014 19:51: More info
#11
This was left in my letterbox, no name, date:

http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy100/rachelandgromit/CallingCard.jpg

Edited By: rachelandgromit on Jul 01, 2014 19:42
#12
And here was the tracking info which is NOT my signature, took copies of both into the sorting office which they copied and never contacted me. Also evidence of bank card/driving licence signature - both distinctive. I've been into the sorting office many times and even signed for things in there so I am sure they have a copy of the signature:

http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy100/rachelandgromit/ForgedSignature.png

Edited By: rachelandgromit on Jul 01, 2014 19:45
#13
How can RM claim it was signed for then admit left in r/bin? I'd ask at the sorting office for a full explanation and refund or you'll get the police involved..

Edited By: CookinBat on Jul 01, 2014 19:51
#14
CookingBat, I know, that was exactly what I said to them in my email a couple of days ago and the most recently reply yesterday morning was what I got - they won't even acknowledge that they are in the wrong. I guess its time to get the police involved, I just feel a bit silly, I work in the justice system and I guess it seems petty compared with some of the serious crimes I deal with every day.
#15
trouble is that card has no date or tracking number on it, could be from anywhere :(

report to police and get a crime number, they might take it seriously then


Edited By: deanos on Jul 01, 2014 19:56
#16
deanos
trouble is that card has no date or tracking number on it, could be from anywhere :(

report to police and get a crime number, they might take it seriously then


I am lucky they even posted a card, sometimes they just launch things over the back fence and don't bother even posting a card, or leave it with a neighbour and don't leave a card and then neighbour wonders why we haven't collected our parcel or thinks we are ignorant for not going round.

Edited By: rachelandgromit on Jul 01, 2014 19:58
#17
I would keep hassling the seller to complete the claim form. As it's a business seller they may have a phone number at the bottom of the listing. I'd ring them if you haven't already. Emails are easy to ignore.

Failing that try and speak to this 'manager' directly. Sounds like their policy is pretty clear though. Shame, as it forces you to do a bunch of leg work for their mistake..
#18
Seems.. weird... you state problem from beginning of MAY, but the date / of tracked item is 23/4/2014 ? (April)
#19
how can a postie acquire a signature confirming delivery then leave a card, doesn't make sense :|
#20
nasteestu
Seems.. weird... you state problem from beginning of MAY, but the date / of tracked item is 23/4/2014 ? (April)

Yes, it's because we left to go on holiday a few days later (the Sunday after visiting the sorting office on the Saturday) to Canada for just over three weeks, so it was only when we had no reply from Royal Mail sorting office/Ebay seller and dispute that it became a real problem, I guess I was hoping there would be resolved. Not much was done until May so this is why I said May - do you want to see my boarding pass and passport ;-)

He didn't deliver it, that's my point.

Edited By: rachelandgromit on Jul 01, 2014 20:20
#21
Surely 'Tracked' is totally the wrong method of postage for an item of this value? Only Special Delivery would be of any use.
#22
tracked is for business users but it should have been sent SD

feel for u and sorry about all the questions

the majority of Postie's wouldn't chance their job over a letter never mind a parcel...

the onus is on the sender to claim though...

but you could call PayPal again.

chin up and don't give in
#23
fawkes99
tracked is for business users but it should have been sent SD

feel for u and sorry about all the questions

the majority of Postie's wouldn't chance their job over a letter never mind a parcel...

the onus is on the sender to claim though...

but you could call PayPal again.

chin up and don't give in

Thanks, I've escalated the claim with Royal Mail and will try the seller again. It seems that the seller (business) only has email no phone number, checked Paypal and Ebay.
#24
i am still failing to see how seller can claim he has fulfilled his side of the contract, thought according to PP and ebay he had to have proof of delivery(to you) which he has not, think court action may be the way forward here pretty sure a judge will side with you or at least agree for RM to be brought in as 3rd party.
Sounds like a CC job to me.
#25
It's a bit of a tough one but from what I gather, the seller and ebay seem coy with the fact the item tracking shows it has been delivered. I don't blame them as there are loads of buyer who try all sorts of scams. With that said, the seller hasn't really fulfilled their part of the contract as you haven't received the item. It may not be their fault and I can sympathise with them to an extent but it's really not on if they're not co-operating. You need to grab the seller by the balls (not literally).

Firstly if you have their physical address. send them the following template via recorded delivery (replace where appropriate and send a cover letter explaining everything and keep copies of everything):

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim

Next I would report the theft to the police and get a crime reference number from them.

My third suggestion after you had done the above would have been to contact your bank to chargeback the payment and also give them the police crime reference number. Please tell me the payment was funded by your bank and not your paypal balance?
#26
Thanks, it was Paypal, but came out of my Halifax account. I will do the letter and send copies of everything to them and then obtain a crime reference number from the police. I will also ask that Halifax do a charge back.
#27
Great! I would recommend contacting the police and getting a crime reference number before asking Halifax to chargeback the payment.

The seller may well think they have fulfilled their side of the transaction but it's only them who can initiate the claim so it only makes sense leaning on them. Perhaps threatening them with a small claims court claim may get them to play back, if not, you then have your chargeback with Halifax to fall back on. I think the limit with most banks is 3 months from the date of the transaction so don't leave it too late.
#28
nasteestu
Seems.. weird... you state problem from beginning of MAY, but the date / of tracked item is 23/4/2014 ? (April)

It's like Scooby **** Doo around here with all the amateur detectives... don't judge everyone else by your standards, you may well be looking for each and every scam opportunity but not all of us are.
#29
There is a complaints procedure for the Royal Mail here

http://www.consumerfocus.org.uk/get-advice/post/post-advice/how-to-complain

Once you have followed the steps complaining to RM, you can take the case to the Postal Redress Service which is am independant ombudsman type service, but it looks like you will have to follow the complaints procedures first, My personal opinion is that RM should deal with it, but it is also pretty poor service from the seller to ignore your request for help, if I sold something and this happened I'd be only too willing to try and get it sorted, as the seller won't be out of pocket because RM should pay up.
#30
Even though Ebay has "settled" the claim and not refunded you - I would go back to Ebay and explain the whole situation about RM and the need for the seller to open a case with RM

Also contact Paypal with the same issue
#31
Thalagyrt
It's a bit of a tough one but from what I gather, the seller and ebay seem coy with the fact the item tracking shows it has been delivered. I don't blame them as there are loads of buyer who try all sorts of scams. With that said, the seller hasn't really fulfilled their part of the contract as you haven't received the item. It may not be their fault and I can sympathise with them to an extent but it's really not on if they're not co-operating. You need to grab the seller by the balls (not literally).

Firstly if you have their physical address. send them the following template via recorded delivery (replace where appropriate and send a cover letter explaining everything and keep copies of everything):

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim

Next I would report the theft to the police and get a crime reference number from them.

My third suggestion after you had done the above would have been to contact your bank to chargeback the payment and also give them the police crime reference number. Please tell me the payment was funded by your bank and not your paypal balance?
Hope the op doesn't take this the wrong way, Not sure the seller will get involved here as RM have confirmed delivery so he's fulfilled his obligation..
#32
What about credit/debit card charge back?
I had hassle getting £35 back from RM.
#33
I can't do anything with Paypal, just checked. Because a case was open and EBay ruled in favour of the seller there doesn't seem to be any option to take it further this way. The stance was that the item was delivered, from EBay and the sellers point of view. I will contact Halifax tomorrow and also get the letter sent off to the seller. The company on EBay was photo direct. I can't seem to see an address so will look into this further.

I do feel for the seller but I do think they should at least try and help given that whilst it isn't really their fault, they seem to be the only ones who can actually resolve this and if a charge back is given then they will have to get their money from RM.
#34
CookinBat
Thalagyrt
It's a bit of a tough one but from what I gather, the seller and ebay seem coy with the fact the item tracking shows it has been delivered. I don't blame them as there are loads of buyer who try all sorts of scams. With that said, the seller hasn't really fulfilled their part of the contract as you haven't received the item. It may not be their fault and I can sympathise with them to an extent but it's really not on if they're not co-operating. You need to grab the seller by the balls (not literally).

Firstly if you have their physical address. send them the following template via recorded delivery (replace where appropriate and send a cover letter explaining everything and keep copies of everything):

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim

Next I would report the theft to the police and get a crime reference number from them.

My third suggestion after you had done the above would have been to contact your bank to chargeback the payment and also give them the police crime reference number. Please tell me the payment was funded by your bank and not your paypal balance?
Hope the op doesn't take this the wrong way, Not sure the seller will get involved here as RM have confirmed delivery so he's fulfilled his obligation..

They may have fulfilled their obligation with eBay by sending the item but not their contract with the OP. I sympathise with the seller because they're probably thinking the OP is scamming them. The seller has recourse as their contract is with Royal Mail. The only way OP can get the seller to pull their finger out is by threatening to take them to a small claims court and reporting the matter to the police/chargeback is their insurance policy if the seller still doesn't play ball.
#35
Ah photo-direct, remember seeing a thread on here about them selling imported iPads. Many people got in touch with them but communication doesn't seem to be their strong point.

Their website photo-direct.co.uk is registered to JSS Limited http://jss.uk.com/ JSS Ltd's address is:

Vulcan House
Restmor Way
Wallington
SM6 7AH

On ebay, photo-directs telephone appears as 02030023759 and address as

PO Box 5402
Hove
East Sussex
BN52 9YN

Would be been better to send the letter to their 'actual' physical address but I guess the PO BOX should suffice
#36
Thalagyrt
CookinBat
Thalagyrt
It's a bit of a tough one but from what I gather, the seller and ebay seem coy with the fact the item tracking shows it has been delivered. I don't blame them as there are loads of buyer who try all sorts of scams. With that said, the seller hasn't really fulfilled their part of the contract as you haven't received the item. It may not be their fault and I can sympathise with them to an extent but it's really not on if they're not co-operating. You need to grab the seller by the balls (not literally).

Firstly if you have their physical address. send them the following template via recorded delivery (replace where appropriate and send a cover letter explaining everything and keep copies of everything):

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim

Next I would report the theft to the police and get a crime reference number from them.

My third suggestion after you had done the above would have been to contact your bank to chargeback the payment and also give them the police crime reference number. Please tell me the payment was funded by your bank and not your paypal balance?
Hope the op doesn't take this the wrong way, Not sure the seller will get involved here as RM have confirmed delivery so he's fulfilled his obligation..

They may have fulfilled their obligation with eBay by sending the item but not their contract with the OP. I sympathise with the seller because they're probably thinking the OP is scamming them. The seller has recourse as their contract is with Royal Mail. The only way OP can get the seller to pull their finger out is by threatening to take them to a small claims court and reporting the matter to the police/chargeback is their insurance policy if the seller still doesn't play ball.
Not sure how the seller can claim off RM when RM are saying they've delivered the package and have a signature from op confirming it...It's looking like the posties took it but proving it might be difficult.. The seller is beyond reproach by the look of it..
#37
CookinBat
Thalagyrt
CookinBat
Thalagyrt
It's a bit of a tough one but from what I gather, the seller and ebay seem coy with the fact the item tracking shows it has been delivered. I don't blame them as there are loads of buyer who try all sorts of scams. With that said, the seller hasn't really fulfilled their part of the contract as you haven't received the item. It may not be their fault and I can sympathise with them to an extent but it's really not on if they're not co-operating. You need to grab the seller by the balls (not literally).

Firstly if you have their physical address. send them the following template via recorded delivery (replace where appropriate and send a cover letter explaining everything and keep copies of everything):

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim

Next I would report the theft to the police and get a crime reference number from them.

My third suggestion after you had done the above would have been to contact your bank to chargeback the payment and also give them the police crime reference number. Please tell me the payment was funded by your bank and not your paypal balance?
Hope the op doesn't take this the wrong way, Not sure the seller will get involved here as RM have confirmed delivery so he's fulfilled his obligation..

They may have fulfilled their obligation with eBay by sending the item but not their contract with the OP. I sympathise with the seller because they're probably thinking the OP is scamming them. The seller has recourse as their contract is with Royal Mail. The only way OP can get the seller to pull their finger out is by threatening to take them to a small claims court and reporting the matter to the police/chargeback is their insurance policy if the seller still doesn't play ball.
Not sure how the seller can claim off RM when RM are saying they've delivered the package and have a signature from op confirming it...It's looking like the posties took it but proving it might be difficult.. The seller is beyond reproach by the look of it..

Yes follow page 1 and see the calling card photo which was posted. RM asked the OP to get the seller to raise a claim. If the seller even bothered to liaise with the OP, they could forward the image of the calling card with their claim and I'm sire the claims team would have correspondence from the OP already contacting them. RM's contract is with the seller so I guess they are following protocol by asking the seller to make a claim.

OP, another tac which might save you on postage would be to send a courteous e-mail to photo direct ([email protected]) stating everything along with the calling card photo and how disappointed you are in them not responding. Also mention that should you not hear from them by the end of the next day, that you intend to file a small claims court claim if they fail to address your issue. I've also done some looking up and found this:

For the record (in case someone finds this thread, hopefully it'll save someone buying from these guys): Photodirect have an incorrect phone number, +44 (0) 208 669 718, on the PhotoDirect ebay store: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/photodirect. When you call it, the tone get you is incorrect phone number. So something is dodgy.

PhotoDirect's full address is:

Photodirect
17 Chesford Grange
Woolston
Warrington
Cheshire
WA14RQ
United Kingdom

Phone: 44203|0023759
Email: [email protected]

The above phone number I only found after about 30-40 mins searching through their other auctions. I have telephoned it and left messages but there is no response.

Source: http://goprouser.freeforums.org/where-is-the-serial-number-t5491-30.html



Edited By: Thalagyrt on Jul 01, 2014 22:52: missed out something
#38
Already tried emailing them on the email address no response. However, Warrington is not a million miles away I may be in Warrington at work next week so if I post them a letter and get no response I could just turn up at their office!
#39
Tell the postie you are onto him and he needs to help you out. If he agrees order a new lens. When it comes don't sign for it. Now you have your lens. Now claim off eBay and get your money back. When seller asks for your help claiming from RM just ignore the messages like they did with you.

Its still a farce. How they can claim if has been signed for and delivered yet state they have left it in a recycle bin is beyond me!
#40
or it could have been a card found blank in the street........

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