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Santander hire purchase demanding bank statements, payslips and income and expenditure forms before in order to accept a payment arrangement

£0.00 @ Santander
Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice please. This one is a little long winded but I'all try to keep it as short as possible whilst giving as much info as possible. I took out a car on hire purc… Read More
christopherguy25 Avatar
7m, 50m agoPosted 7 months, 50 minutes ago
Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice please. This one is a little long winded but I'all try to keep it as short as possible whilst giving as much info as possible.

I took out a car on hire purchase finance which was provided by Santander. I took the car out over 48 months. I made 5 monthly payments but I reclaimed 3 of these payments through direct debit indemnity. I know this was rather stupid but Inhad to pay almost £800 for car repairs and it was the only way Inwas able to get that amount of money.

As a result I received a default notice. I phoned and tried to set up the direct debit again to make my monthly payments as well as a payment towards my arrears until they were cleared. My monthly payment is £235 per month. I offered to pay an additional £20 per month but they refused stating that I had to repay the arrears over a maximum of 3 months therefore I'd be paying double £470 for the next 3 months.

I ended up speaking with a manager who told me that the minimum amount they would accept was over 12 months which workers out as £65 per month but they would only be willing to accept this payment if I provided them with an income and expenditure form that they would send men. I asked them what I would do in the meantime with regards to my payment. I was advised that I could pay this by standing order until they had received the returned income and expenditure form which would allow them to reinstate the direct debit, given it was affordable. This was 16th September Inspike to them. I advised tomthem in writing that my first payment would be on 28th September and every month thereafter. I would pay £235 plus £65 towards the arrears so total payment of £300 per month.

I made the payment on 28th September and my next payment is due on 28th Oct (Fri). I received a lister on 14th October asking me to contact their department in relation to my credit agreement. I phoned them and they advised me that they had cancelled my credit agreement and the only option for me to keep the car was to pay the settlement amount of £12k immediately. I asked them why they would cancel and they told me it was because I hadn't returned the completed income and expenditure form. I was like really, wtf. First of all I never received the form in the first place. I assumed they hadn't sent it due to me already making the first payment as agreed. They said they attempted to phone me several times but they had been using an old number despite me giving them my new number. This was now passed to collections and they have threatened to hand this to solicitors in order to recover the car. Despite only making two payment totalling £520 I made a deposit of £4300 so really I've paid almost £5k. It's not 1/3 but I know they can't take the car without my consent or without a court order (Scotland) regardless of the amount paid. This is also confirmed in the small print of the finance agreement.

Anyways after going through their complaints procedure and threatening with the ombudsman they told me that they would reinstate the terminated agreement if I a) supplied them with an invoice from the garage that carries out the repairs on my car and b) completed a financial statement which has to include my last 3 months payslips, 3 months bank statements and a list of my other creditor with their statements where possible. They told me that the £300 Inpaid at the end of September was a token payment and not part of an arrangement as one has not been set. I asked them if I should pay this month and they said if you want but it would just be a token payment. I don't know if I want to pay this as I might use this as leverage when setting up a new direct debit. If it's only a token payment then they don't care if I'm paying £10 or £300 by the looks of things.

So here's the question. I have no issue with providing them with an invoice for the car repairs considering they are telling me that I must do that or order for them to accept my payment arrangement. I am however unwilling to provide them with bank statements (this is a joint bank account with my wife and she is not willing for this to be given out) and I am not willing to provide payslips or statements from other creditors as quite frankly I find this very intrusive. I feel like they are holding me to ransom over this information but I believe in standing for what I believe in and I shall not be bullied by Santander. I'm trying my best to rectify the issue but my understanding is that the only people who can order you to provide bank statements are the courts. If I'm paying my monthly payment as well as an additional £65 per month I doubt very much the judge would entertain Santander. I believe this would clearly show I was making an effort to pay as well as clear my arrears. I will defend this on court if I have to. Am I legally obliged to provide all this information to the creditor or would a completed income and expenditure be enough. If they did take me to court I would show this information to the judge only if necessary.

I never realised Santander would be so difficult to deal with but from checking lots of online forums it appears to be a common practice of theirs.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully someone can advise me of where I stand legally.
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christopherguy25 Avatar
7m, 50m agoPosted 7 months, 50 minutes ago
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(1)
They lend you 12k and you fail on 3 of the first 5 payments and questioning why they want proof of your finance.

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#1
They lend you 12k and you fail on 3 of the first 5 payments and questioning why they want proof of your finance.
#2
I have to agree with alankfc02, if you were encountering financial difficulties paying the £800 repair bill you should have contacted them in the first instance instead of falsely raising an indemnity claim. I think the only ways around this will be to get a personal bank loan to pay the remaining finance off (but bear in mind you have 3 missed payment defaults now) or to send the requested documentation to Santander. They're a bank, they're not bothered about scrutinising what you spend money on, they just need to know whether you can actually afford the payments.
banned#3
You sound a bit special. Just do as they ask.
#4
The bank has to establish that repayments are affordable . How can they do that without evidence of your incomings and outgoings ? On what grounds did you indemnify under the direct debit intensity scheme ? Much though I agree santander may not be the easiest of companies to deal with , but I can see from their point of view . There has been a breach of trust between the two parties and in all honesty I am frankly surprised they are being that flexible with you . The deposit is besides the point as that will go to the car dealership , not santander . What they see is that you should have made five payments and you have made two .
If you value your credit rating , I would do as they ask because if it goes to collections that will be shot . The repayments of £65 will be a a credit agreement and thus does require a contract .
I know this is probably not want you want to hear and I sincerely hope you can come to an amicable agreement but I would just bite the bullet and pay up .
#5
Do as they wish, bite the bullet and learn from it. If you take it to court, you WILL loose and potentially open yourself up to further ramifications due to the false direct debit reclaims.
#6
They are doing this because of your actions. If they were to enter into another credit arrangement with you and not check if you could afford it, it would not look very good when they finally have to take you to court. Remember you defaulted on a previous agreement you had within a few months of taking it out. Everyone has unexpected bills to pay and they want to make sure that you have the leeway in your finances to pay any future ones without you once again withholding payments.

Be honest would you lend to someone with your history and financial position several thousands of pounds. Unfortunately for your wife she is linked to you financially, so it is not unreasonable for them to ask for details involving her.


Edited By: Argoj on Oct 25, 2016 21:42: s
#7
So you commited fraud and wonder why they dont trust you?

Also why are you paying £15k+ for a car that broke within months?
#8
I would love to see what the ombudsman or the court would say about this . Not sure on what grounds you could take it to either .
#9
I did read this and I will comment although it's like if you have nothing positive to say... As my ole dad would say " beggars can't be choosers" so alas you are beholden to their demands. DCX is completely right - I would have just stopped at the fact you bought a 12 k motor on tick - you must be young, sorry none of the comments may be what you want to hear but they are all right
#10
I don't agree actually. I have offered to make payments as well a repaying the arrears at £65 per month. Any other creditor would accept this. I have no problem with completing an income and expenditure form but Inreduse to hand over bank statements and payslips as quite frankly it's none of their business. Legally I do not need to provide them with such information. I know my rights and I know that they are unable to recover the car without a court order. They can't remove the car whilst it's on private property. Let's say it goes to court, by that point I would have already made around 4-5 payments of the higher amount. Are they going to argue at court that they want the vehicle back as im not able to prove that I can pay for the vehicle? The judge would be like eh, he's already made payment for the past 4 months, I'm not quite sure why we are here actually. If I set another arrangement which includes the arrears and then break it they could then take back the vehicle. I'm sure continuous payments would carry more weight than wage slips and bank statements not being provided. You know I posted looking for others to reconfirm what's inalreadybknew but it turns out most people don't have a clue. Hopefully someone drops by with a sensible response. No consent from me means no taking back the vehicle. No court order from them means no taking back the vehicle. Court order means I go to court and fight my case and the likelihood is the court will look in my favour considering I need the car to continue to go to work to continue to make payments. Car is parked on private property and this cannot be removed. I asked people where I stood legally if anyone else had been in the same situation and all I get is those who are so perfect with their credit slating me. Nice.
#11
you sound like you've done this before. so if you dont agree to their terms looks like your heading to court, maybe you can stand your ground there. Just ensure you give your terms in writing to them to cover your back.
#12
I'm happy to provide an income and expenditure form but that's all. If it goes to court then I will happily provide the relevant documents to the courts. That I have no issue with.
#13
christopherguy25
I'm happy to provide an income and expenditure form but that's all. If it goes to court then I will happily provide the relevant documents to the courts. That I have no issue with.

you dont understand, you cannot say you disagree with their terms in court, its too late then, the court will ask you why didnt you agree and what have you done about it. going in there and saying you didnt agree might show you had no intentions to pay whatsoever. you sound like the court will side by you, your not even close, lawyer up, you will need it with the plans you have atm.
#14
Cancelled 3 direct debits, no wonder they want rid of you. You have just balls up your credit rating. You better give them what they have asked for or you're going to be more in the sh... oO
#15
And... sounds like you lied on the loan form about any other loans you may have. Better pack a bag for a stay in the big house for fraud. oO
#16
If you don't want to provide a bank statement now then good luck when you come to buy a house or remortgage. There are people who have paid every mortgage payment for years who can't 'lower' their monthly payments when they re mortgage as the new checks state 6 months of banks statements are required to prove affordability. If the bank deems they can't afford it then they stay stuck on the higher payments which is odd considering they are far more likely to afford the lower payments. In your case it doesn't matter that you can make the payments or even pay more than the payments, YOU defaulted on a loan and therefore are now going through the process of a deeper vetting checks etc before they reinstate it to make sure you can actually afford it and whether its worth their risk. You don't seem to understand why the bank is asking for it. It is to check that the amount you put on your income form matches what goes into the bank and is spent on the average things etc. If you earn £30k a year but £25k went out on child support for 10 kids and you had a gambling addiction for online poker your statements would show this but your income form would not. Therefore, on the income form alone you would get the loan, with all the statements included you would not. Give them the statements as they have asked or be prepared to suffer the consequences for years in the future. And the story about the courts favouring you as you need the car to work - you are living in cuckoo land my friend - the judge will throw you a copy of auto trader and tell you to buy a £500 car to get to work and will award the car back to Santander. You defaulted on the loans. You never bothered to chase the form after a month! You are now refusing to provide the proof they require. You need to take a look at yourself financially and probably morally and ask yourself is it all worth it over a bit of paper.

Take some responsibility in life and do as they ask. It is no ones fault but your own.

Edited By: ThePasty on Oct 25, 2016 23:21
#17
You really do need to either supply them with the asked for paper work or speak to a solicitor as you really have a strange idea as to the law covering the situations.

Unless you have someone willing to put up with a car parked on their land then a bailiff can and do remove cars from private land if its your registered address or your place of work.

The only thing the judge would be interested in is that you have broken the terms of your contract by the use of fraudulent means. If you wanted to stand up and give your side of the story the judge would only be interested in the facts pertaining to you breaking the contract. He would not be interested in your opinions as to the fairness of it all. He would look to see if the contract terms were fair and that due process has been followed, that is it. It doesn't matter in the slightest that you have made payments since, he may ask the banks counsel as to the circumstances and he will respond that you were given opportunities to enter into a further payment agreement but failed to fulfill or agree to the industry standard terms set out in the agreement.

Going by what you have stated here you will not have any legal argument to counter their seizure order. As you are undoubtedly now thinking that you could now park it on grannies front lawn to stop seizure they can go back to the court and ask for a seizure notice for that address.
#18
I reckon you have something to hide which is why you are refusing to show bank statements and pay slips. Perhaps you over inflated your income in order to get accepted for a hire purchase, thus showing these items will prove that?? it might explain why you cant pay for the repairs that you incured?
#19
Yeah but let's say it goes to court and they ask me why I'm not paying. I would tell them I have been paying my regular payments as well as an additional £65 towards the arrears for the previous 4 months therefor i would have proved my ability to repay which would confirm it was affordable.
#20
It's also not a condition that I must supply bank statements and wage slips to them in order to set up an arrangement to pay. They can request an income and expenditure form to be completed which I will to buy obtaining my personal info they won't. They'll be told to like it or lump it . If I was to default on the new arrangement then by all means they can question my affordability but whilst I'm making regular payments it would appear silly for the to ask for such information
#21
christopherguy25
I'm happy to provide an income and expenditure form but that's all. If it goes to court then I will happily provide the relevant documents to the courts. That I have no issue with.
As far as I can gather until you have paid a third of the amount of the finance they can reclaim the car without going to the court . Got that off the government website . For goodness sake see sense . Please
#22
Some people are just thick.
#23
Why can't you accept that Santander want proof of income and expenditure. You have defaulted on 1 agreement with them so they want to make certain that you can afford another payment arrangement. Unless there is a discrepancy between your original application and your bank statements,why are you refusing to give the proof they require?
#24
"I would tell them I have been paying my regular payments as well as an additional £65 towards the arrears for the previous 4 months therefor i would have proved my ability to repay which would confirm it was affordable."

The court will not give a dam that you have decided to pay extra, you have defaulted on a contact and the injured party can exercise their rights under the contract. If Santander decide to offer you a repayment arrangement that is their decision and they can stipulate their own conditions on how they will offer it. If you do not want it or refuse to abide then you will leave them no choice but to recover the car.

It will not end there either, court costs, bailiff costs and the car will be sold at public auction so will no doubt fail to cover the outstanding loan, I am presuming this is a loan as its Santander and not higher purchase.

So you will still have a out standing debt and you and the wife will have a very punitive credit rating, all because you cannot take responsibility for your actions.

I really hope you decide to act in a sensible way but somehow I strongly doubt it.


Edited By: Argoj on Oct 26, 2016 09:09
#25
You didn't stick to the original agreement with them, so all bets are off. They are trying to be flexible and help you out - their terms for this extra help include seeing proof of income.. if you don't want to accept their help, then you deserve everything that's about to come your way.

Also, I'd hazard a guess you haven't read the terms and conditions in their entirety?
#26
Why did you have £800 repairs on the new car in the first few months?.

As said you should provide the info as requested, You are not helping yourself at all.

You will wake up one day with the car either gone or clamped with heavy debts and no car.

The money you already paid would go on the extra fees so this will also be gone.
#27
WonkyDoctor
You sound a bit special. Just do as they ask.
I like this. :D
#28
Just because you can make the payments for the next four months and some extra, does not mean in anyway that you can afford the repayments. How do they know that you haven't had a friend or family member send you some money to help out, or one month you did some extra overtime, or maybe you sold an an item which brought in extra income? They will need to see your income and expenditure to verify this, and also they'll be asking questions what will happen the next time you need to make repairs... where will that money come from?

Edited By: jp297 on Oct 26, 2016 09:52: Gwamma
#29
exmouthred
Some people are just thick.

I'm assuming you're talking about yourself thicko. In Scotland they can't repossess your car without a court order regardless of the amount paid little or large. Maybe getbto learn the law before starting to insult people.
#30
Also just to advise if Santander do apply for a court order i can apply for a Time Order under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The court has the power to grant a time order in respect of a regulated agreement to reschedule payment of the sum owed. This means that a time order can change:

1) The amount you have to pay each month.
2) How long the loan will last.
3) in some cases, the interest rate payable

A time order can also stop the creditor taking away any item bought by you on hire purchase or conditional sale under the regulated agreeement, so long as you continue to pay the instalments agreed.

It is a conditional sale agreement I have.

Hopefully now I'll have people that know what they are talking about respond to me without the need to slate or give their derogatory opinion. Let's just stick to the laws regardless of wether you think it's right wrong.

Thanks.
#31
christopherguy25
In Scotland they can't repossess your car without a court order regardless of the amount paid little or large.

Yes, they can. The law in Scotland is not as black and white as you imagine it is.

You seem to believe you are arguing from a position of strength - you aren't. If you encourage your way into court, you won't get a sympathetic hearing from the Sheriff, regardless of whether you've made interim payments. The law and CPR expects you to have made every attempt to resolve the matter before it reaches court. The bank have no reason to take your word for anything - you're already in breach of the original agreement, and fraudulently too. The bank doesn't have to give you and you are not entitled to a second contract. The bank is offering you the opportunity to have a second contract but given your display of bad faith to date, they want some evidence that you are capable of meeting your obligation under the new contract. It's irrelevant whether they are legally entitled to demand the paperwork, they are making a commercial decision based on your track record with them to date. They don't trust you. You have the opportunity to restore some of that lost trust by giving them what they ask for. But you're refusing to provide it for no good reason, except perhaps that it will show up more deception / fraud on your part? You are not acting in good faith and it will not stand you in good stead in court.


Edited By: ceres on Oct 26, 2016 16:55: typo
#32
So.
1) You mess up your payments
2) They try to help you and you don't play ball.
3) They chase you for payment.
4) They are forced to take it to court to reclaim the car.
5) They sell the car at action and with fees don't cover the £12k.
6) Your already down over £5k, don't have a car, still owe them money and have ruined any credit score you had.

So any money your are sending them outside your credit agreement (which has ended by your default) is just a win for them on recovering what you owe. So if your not playing ball why bother sending them money each month?
#33
stop living above your means -
#34
christopherguy25
Also just to advise if Santander do apply for a court order i can apply for a Time Order under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The court has the power to grant a time order in respect of a regulated agreement to reschedule payment of the sum owed. This means that a time order can change:

1) The amount you have to pay each month.
2) How long the loan will last.
3) in some cases, the interest rate payable

A time order can also stop the creditor taking away any item bought by you on hire purchase or conditional sale under the regulated agreeement, so long as you continue to pay the instalments agreed.

It is a conditional sale agreement I have.

Hopefully now I'll have people that know what they are talking about respond to me without the need to slate or give their derogatory opinion. Let's just stick to the laws regardless of wether you think it's right wrong.

Thanks.


You seem to know it all already and believe to have done no wrong. Why are you asking for help?
#35
christopherguy25
exmouthred
Some people are just thick.
I'm assuming you're talking about yourself thicko. In Scotland they can't repossess your car without a court order regardless of the amount paid little or large. Maybe getbto learn the law before starting to insult people.
Thanks for proving my point.
#36
If you can just default on a credit agreement and fraudulently raise a DD indemnity whenever you choose why isn't everyone at it? Serious question - if it's as black and white as you say it is then why isn't every Tom Darren and Julien doing the same thing?
#37
Dont forget to let us know how it all goes, by the way.
#38
You really are deluded. You come across as if you have done nothing wrong.
#39
let us know how it goes, i would love for many of us to be wrong and im sure we will apologize, some of us at-least because most would not keep a tab on this thread.
#40
I really thought that some people would have understood the situation.

1) I've not committed any fraud.

2) I will continue to make my monthly payments as well as money towards the arrears.

3) I will provide my payslip and a completed income and expenditure form but I will not provide bank statements as this is not a legal requirement of an agreement.

4) They aren't allowed to take the car from me without a court order FACT.

5) if they want to apply for a court order then so be it but by the time this goes to court I would have made 4 or 5 consecutive monthly payments.

6) When it comes down to debtvthe judge will always look favourably to the defendant especially if they are making a conscious effort to pay the debt. I'm guessing the judge will agree that payment over the past 4 months is showing a willingness to pay.

So basically judge will ask why they are wanting to repossess the car. Santander will tell them they want to repossess the car because I defaulted on the original agreement and despite the fact that I have provided them with a repair bill, payslip, income and expenditure form and I've paid them every month for the past 4 months which included an additional £65 per month but they want the car back as I've not provided them with a bank statement so they can't be sure that I'm able to afford a car that I've made the past 4 payments on.

The absolute worse case scenario is that I apply for a time order which will be for a certain amount each month and Santander won't have a say in this. It will be up to the judge and I'm confident this will swing in my favour.

You know I really thought that there would have been people out there who agreed with the legalities around the situation but like most forums someone makes a negative comment and the rest of the people follow. Don't worry I'all keep you all posted. As for the ones who have been derogatory and name calling, saying that I'm stupid and special we will see what happens. Those that are wrong shall eat humble pie.

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