40" Full HD LED TV - SHARP Aquos LC40LE600E £599.99 @ Dixons - HotUKDeals
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Get a glimpse of the future with the Sharp Aquos LC40LE600E 40" Full HD LED TV, a fantastic example of the new breed of LED-backlit flatscreen televisions! This cutting-edge HDTV offers outstanding picture quality at a price you can afford.

The star of the show is the 40-inch LCD panel with LED backlighting. This breathtaking display boasts a Full HD 1920 x 1080p resolution, with an incredible native contrast ratio of 4,000:1 and dynamic contrast of 2,000,000:1 - ensuring beautifully cinematic imagery.

The high contrast is complemented by the 176-degree viewing angle of the Sharp Aquos LC-40LE600E, which allows everyone in the room to enjoy the stunning image. The ultra-bright white LEDs in the backlight provide a luminance of 450 cd/m2, which is more than enough to punch through bright ambient lighting conditions during sunlight hours.

The Sharp Aquos LC40LE600E 40" Full HD LED TV is practical too, with a choice of 3 HDMI connectors, twin SCART sockets, composite, component, and even PC input (D-Sub) for using the TV as a giant computer monitor. It includes a built-in digital Freeview tuner.
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#1
Sharp supplied the LCD screens for Pioneer and Bang and Olufsen
#2
It was £470 the other day with 5 year warranty at Sharp not sure its still available

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/644774/sharp-lc40le600e-led-backlight-474-?t=644774
#3
My friend has a 46" Samsung LED tv and it blows my Panasonic 42" plasma away the picture is fantastic
#4
''LED-backlit LCD television (called LED TV by Samsung Electronics, Panasonic,Toshiba, Philips, LG Electronics, ProScan and Vizio and not to be confused with true LED displays) is an LCD TV that uses LED backlighting[1] rather than fluorescent lights used in traditional LCD televisions.'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED-backlit_LCD_television
#5
Its a PX70 honestly the Samsung hes got is really good i was very impressed never saw any clouding whatsoever, mind you i think it cost him £1600 at xmas time so think its the top of the range one
#6
Read up some reviews before buying backlit led lcd's. As many are very thin they lack the depth of sound from the speakers.

From some of the review I've read and can't confirm whether this set suffers or not.
#7
Good price for a backlight LED TV but it is FAT as a LCD, when LED lighting should make them thinner. Bad design I say.
Compare the depth to a samsung
#8
This tv is awful, and I mean awful!!! Ghosting and yes the tv IS very fat because it is backlit from the back and not the sides like the samsung. We have this tv at currys I work at, a customer bought it off the internet as an LED tv. He was so appalled he paid an extra 100 quid and exchanged it for a samsung one. If you really want led technology wait for OLED. Just my 2 cents or pence. :)
#9
djstrobe4real
This tv is awful, and I mean awful!!! Ghosting and yes the tv IS very fat because it is backlit from the back and not the sides like the samsung. We have this tv at currys I work at, a customer bought it off the internet as an LED tv. He was so appalled he paid an extra 100 quid and exchanged it for a samsung one. If you really want led technology wait for OLED. Just my 2 cents or pence. :)


Local dimming is available on rear-backlit TVs. With edge-backlighting, it is not possible to localise the dimming and judiciously alter contrast levels in context with the current scenes of a film. A complete array of backlights will always perform better than edge backlit TVs - that is pretty fundamental. Furthermore, it stands to reason that a matrix of rear LEDs allows for much more even lighting than LEDs mounted at the edges. You are correct that edge-backlit TVs tend to be thinner but why that is important would be subjective.
#10
the porter
mate go and watch it late at night in a dimly lit room on a black dark film and it will be there plain as day its why i will never touch an lcd led ever again


:thumbsup:
#11
here is a pic of the very latest in television technology...available at all good electrical retailers now!! :thumbsup:

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/object_images/535x535/10405933.jpg
#12
Erm yeah what he said, did u find that on wikipedia lol. Anyways I'm not flaming as I think as a deal it's a good price BUT the tv is horrid. The picture quality is disgusting and on the box sharp boasts the contrast ratio as 'mega contrast' no value. As I said I work at currys and deal with these tvs all the time and I know the sources currys use are nowhere near substantial but the inputs are the same with the Sharp and Samsung and a side by side comparison says it all. Ghosting very blurry text. Virtually unreadable also the screen has no protection on the front. It's like a very old TFT panel if u touch it ur finger print stays on it for a short while. So definately not safe for a house with children!!! I always do my best to tell the truth to people and this is no exception. Don't be fooled into thinking led is better because the sharp just does not live up to expectations.
#13
djstrobe4real
Erm yeah what he said, did u find that on wikipedia lol. Anyways I'm not flaming as I think as a deal it's a good price BUT the tv is horrid. The picture quality is disgusting and on the box sharp boasts the contrast ratio as 'mega contrast' no value. As I said I work at currys and deal with these tvs all the time and I know the sources currys use are nowhere near substantial but the inputs are the same with the Sharp and Samsung and a side by side comparison says it all. Ghosting very blurry text. Virtually unreadable also the screen has no protection on the front. It's like a very old TFT panel if u touch it ur finger print stays on it for a short while. So definately not safe for a house with children!!! I always do my best to tell the truth to people and this is no exception. Don't be fooled into thinking led is better because the sharp just does not live up to expectations.


No I did not find it on Wikipedia - I write codecs for upscaling engines used in TVs for post processing, hence I can hold my own in a conversation regarding TVs. As I said, it is quite fundamental that an LED matrix arranged behind the screen is not to be considered a disadvantage. A slightly thicker chassis is most certainly a worthwhile sacrifice to have a full matrix of LEDs at the back.

If the Sharp TV is performing poorly (in contrast to many user reviews) there may be other issues but certainly the layout or the usage of LEDs is not really an acceptable inference regarding blurry text or ghosting (which is not possible if a digital signal is being fed). Even if the Sharp TV does not meet your expectations it doesn't conclude that in general, LED backlit TVs will be no better than their predecessors. I'm not sure in what capacity you work for in Currys but just to give a quick synopsis of the advantages of LED backlighting (in a full matrix at the back), the individual LEDs can be switched off (to all intents and purposes) which allows for better blacks than CCFL lit TVs. The LCD display still works in the same way by filtering the backlight. With CCFL backlit TVs, the backlight is always on. You're not telling me that CCFL backlit TVs outperform LED backlit TVs? If you can argue that case convincingly, I would be interested.

You are quite correct regarding the "mega contrast" terminology. How many times have Currys, Comet, PC World staff try to point out to the uninformed such namby pamby nomenclature that has no quantification? It has no meaning and is not an industry-wide specification. Mega Contrast is also ridiculously stated by Samsung too. Of course, as a Currys employee, you would have spotted that.
#14
djstrobe4real
Erm yeah what he said, did u find that on wikipedia lol. Anyways I'm not flaming as I think as a deal it's a good price BUT the tv is horrid. The picture quality is disgusting and on the box sharp boasts the contrast ratio as 'mega contrast' no value. As I said I work at currys and deal with these tvs all the time and I know the sources currys use are nowhere near substantial but the inputs are the same with the Sharp and Samsung and a side by side comparison says it all. Ghosting very blurry text. Virtually unreadable also the screen has no protection on the front. It's like a very old TFT panel if u touch it ur finger print stays on it for a short while. So definately not safe for a house with children!!! I always do my best to tell the truth to people and this is no exception. Don't be fooled into thinking led is better because the sharp just does not live up to expectations.



9/10 from 37 customer reviews say its ok:oops:

http://www.reevoo.com/p/sharp-lc40le600-bdh21#reviews-tab
#15
great price

need 100Hz then i'd buy.

hot

:thumbsup:
#16
Not the best blacks on these (0.11 cd/m2, about 2.5x worse than a comparable plasma).
#17
"This cutting-edge HDTV offers outstanding picture quality at a price you can afford."

Wow, how do they know I can afford this? ;)
#18
ElliottC
No I did not find it on Wikipedia - I write codecs for upscaling engines used in TVs for post processing, hence I can hold my own in a conversation regarding TVs. As I said, it is quite fundamental that an LED matrix arranged behind the screen is not to be considered a disadvantage. A slightly thicker chassis is most certainly a worthwhile sacrifice to have a full matrix of LEDs at the back.

If the Sharp TV is performing poorly (in contrast to many user reviews) there may be other issues but certainly the layout or the usage of LEDs is not really an acceptable inference regarding blurry text or ghosting (which is not possible if a digital signal is being fed). Even if the Sharp TV does not meet your expectations it doesn't conclude that in general, LED backlit TVs will be no better than their predecessors. I'm not sure in what capacity you work for in Currys but just to give a quick synopsis of the advantages of LED backlighting (in a full matrix at the back), the individual LEDs can be switched off (to all intents and purposes) which allows for better blacks than CCFL lit TVs. The LCD display still works in the same way by filtering the backlight. With CCFL backlit TVs, the backlight is always on. You're not telling me that CCFL backlit TVs outperform LED backlit TVs? If you can argue that case convincingly, I would be interested.

You are quite correct regarding the "mega contrast" terminology. How many times have Currys, Comet, PC World staff try to point out to the uninformed such namby pamby nomenclature that has no quantification? It has no meaning and is not an industry-wide specification. Mega Contrast is also ridiculously stated by Samsung too. Of course, as a Currys employee, you would have spotted that.


Ok point taken you win, perhaps we have a faulty panel instore because the picture is much worse than a standard LG 32 l2000. And that is supposedly entry level. I'm sorry I doubted your integrity you are clearly much more knowledgeable than I am in this field. But please understand this as it makes us as currys sales staff look bad, I know a fair bit about televisions and customers have boycotted the sharp simply for the reasons mentioned in my previous posts. By what the reviews are saying and what you are telling me indicates something is wrong somewhere. Source is component running from upscaling DVD player. (samsung rose). Also this tv is said to only be 60hz that will also have an impact on the legibility of the writing on screen. Btw I like LED televisions and I do agree they produce more vivid images.

Sorry to have angered you lol.
#19
arfster
Not the best blacks on these (0.11 cd/m2, about 2.5x worse than a comparable plasma).


There is absolutely no doubt that LCD TVs cannot compare with plasma TVs regarding black levels. The way LCD panels work require filtering of a backlight and there will be light seepage in dark scenes. Plasma TVs do not use a backlight and each pixel can be switched off individually. Rear-mounted LEDs do improve the situation by localising dimming of dark scenes (note, edge mounted LEDs CAN NOT do this but that stands to reason). However, collateral light from surrounding LEDs will still cause some light to seep through. OLED is the only current flat panel technology that can rival plasmas for black levels because each pixel is an LED and can be illuminated individually rather than filtering light from a separate light source.
#20
bharak
Good price for a backlight LED TV but it is FAT as a LCD, when LED lighting should make them thinner. Bad design I say.
Compare the depth to a samsung


The Samsung is only LED lit around the sides... THATS why its so thin, where as the Sharps are full back lit with LEDs. I have the Sharp LC40LU700 and its a much better set than the equivalent Samsung imo. Not sure about this one, as its an earlier model.
#21
djstrobe4real
Ok point taken you win, perhaps we have a faulty panel instore because the picture is much worse than a standard LG 32 l2000. And that is supposedly entry level. I'm sorry I doubted your integrity you are clearly much more knowledgeable than I am in this field. But please understand this as it makes us as currys sales staff look bad, I know a fair bit about televisions and customers have boycotted the sharp simply for the reasons mentioned in my previous posts. By what the reviews are saying and what you are telling me indicates something is wrong somewhere. Source is component running from upscaling DVD player. (samsung rose). Also this tv is said to only be 60hz that will also have an impact on the legibility of the writing on screen. Btw I like LED televisions and I do agree they produce more vivid images.

Sorry to have angered you lol.


Hey, you have not angered me at all. Your comments merely inspired my desire to find out more - it's not a case of who wins but find out the pros and cons of each side of the argument. In fact, I once pointed out that LED backlit TVs do not suffer from motion blur which was pointed out as being incorrect by another forumite here, and my work involves deep knowledge of the hardware (hopefully my boss is not reading this as I may give my employers a bad name). Anyway, since the source is from a DVD player (assuming a DVD is being played rather than an analogue signal being passed through), the Sharp TV cannot possibly show a ghosting effect. Ghosting is a phenomenon of an analogue signal.

Unfortunately, regarding giving Currys staff a bad name, it can be argued that many should really keep quiet rather than trying to make up something they do not know about (this is not aimed at yourself by the way). A while back while researching support from a range of IT companies for a publication it was concluded in my article that the high street retailers performed very poorly in providing correct advice. To be fair, most of the customers do not really need to know information in such depth though. If it's any consolation, the retailers that cater for the more discerning customers were also horrendous (Dell, HP and so on). You may find some of these comments from Currys, PC World, Comet staff quite amusing (and some of these could even be your colleagues):

- A salesman from Comet was asked about a Toshiba laptop that boasted "HD TV To Go". A researcher asked what it meant and if it means that the laptop possesses HDCP decoding for blu ray movies. The reply after a brief pause was that the laptop was not fully HD and it was 60%, maybe 70% HD.
- A Currys salesman told me that an external Network Attached hard drive has no Operating System. This was shocking enough but when I probed further as to how an Ethernet port on the NAS work without an OS, he just replied that it "just does, I have worked here for 14 years and I know".
- Another Currys salesman advised me to pick an LCD monitor with the lowest response time. He can be forgiven for this as many are misleaded by manufacturers' quoted response times.

As I said, it's not just high street retailers that are shocking. Dell, who arguably should know better, responded to a question regarding a WIFI card that was not working properly, by asking if the computer was switched on! (I told him what I could see on the screen).

With respect to the LG TV appearing to look better, it is not inconceivable that better post processing software is being used in the LG but this should not lead to a description of "disgusting" for the Sharp so I can only assume that there was another issue with the Sharp TV, rather than the post processing (which is usually incorrectly named upscaling). You should have replaced it in the store since it has deterred customers (or maybe the cynical in me believes your store wanted to sell the LG model very quickly).
#22
ElliotC,

I think you might be slightly confused. There are 2 effects which are referred to as ghosting. One is caused by analogue transmission television where 2 copies of the transmitted AM signal are received at different times. This is due to them taking different paths from the transmitter and reflecting off different buildings etc. The other effect is caused by the slower response time of LCDs compared to CRTs or plasma. If a fast moving object such as a football is traveling across the screen then it can leave a trail as the pixels behind it aren't quick enough to stop displaying it. It is basically just another name for motion blur.

Although a DVD stores a digital signal it was mentioned that the output was component which is an analogue signal which transmits different parts of the signal over different wires rather than composite which transmits them all over 1 cable. Upscaling a DVD to the display's native resolution will perhaps test the DVD player or TV's upscaling algorithms rather than the LCD panel itself. The configuration of each TV is important too as many panels on display in stores are not set up for optimal image quality but often have brightness and sharpness turned right up to make them seem better rather than being carefully callibrated.
1 Like #23
MattTS
ElliotC,

I think you might be slightly confused. There are 2 effects which are referred to as ghosting. One is caused by analogue transmission television where 2 copies of the transmitted AM signal are received at different times. This is due to them taking different paths from the transmitter and reflecting off different buildings etc. The other effect is caused by the slower response time of LCDs compared to CRTs or plasma. If a fast moving object such as a football is traveling across the screen then it can leave a trail as the pixels behind it aren't quick enough to stop displaying it. It is basically just another name for motion blur.

Although a DVD stores a digital signal it was mentioned that the output was component which is an analogue signal which transmits different parts of the signal over different wires rather than composite which transmits them all over 1 cable. Upscaling a DVD to the display's native resolution will perhaps test the DVD player or TV's upscaling algorithms rather than the LCD panel itself. The configuration of each TV is important too as many panels on display in stores are not set up for optimal image quality but often have brightness and sharpness turned right up to make them seem better rather than being carefully callibrated.


You are right in that motion blur may also be referred to as ghosting but there is no confusion given the context of what has been referred to. The text has been referred to as being blurry - this is not a phenomenon of motion blur (unless moving text is being referred to). Furthermore, the transmission of a digital signal converted to analogue over a component cable does not result in ghosting because the separate signals should be in phase. A blurred picture is possible due to analogue to digital conversions at the destination, but this is not ghosting.

Surely, correctly calibrating a picture would be more prudent than simply increasing brightness and sharpness in order to "make them seem better".
#24
ElliottC
Hey, you have not angered me at all. Your comments merely inspired my desire to find out more - it's not a case of who wins but find out the pros and cons of each side of the argument. In fact, I once pointed out that LED backlit TVs do not suffer from motion blur which was pointed out as being incorrect by another forumite here, and my work involves deep knowledge of the hardware (hopefully my boss is not reading this as I may give my employers a bad name). Anyway, since the source is from a DVD player (assuming a DVD is being played rather than an analogue signal being passed through), the Sharp TV cannot possibly show a ghosting effect. Ghosting is a phenomenon of an analogue signal.

Unfortunately, regarding giving Currys staff a bad name, it can be argued that many should really keep quiet rather than trying to make up something they do not know about (this is not aimed at yourself by the way). A while back while researching support from a range of IT companies for a publication it was concluded in my article that the high street retailers performed very poorly in providing correct advice. To be fair, most of the customers do not really need to know information in such depth though. If it's any consolation, the retailers that cater for the more discerning customers were also horrendous (Dell, HP and so on). You may find some of these comments from Currys, PC World, Comet staff quite amusing (and some of these could even be your colleagues):

- A salesman from Comet was asked about a Toshiba laptop that boasted "HD TV To Go". A researcher asked what it meant and if it means that the laptop possesses HDCP decoding for blu ray movies. The reply after a brief pause was that the laptop was not fully HD and it was 60%, maybe 70% HD.
- A Currys salesman told me that an external Network Attached hard drive has no Operating System. This was shocking enough but when I probed further as to how an Ethernet port on the NAS work without an OS, he just replied that it "just does, I have worked here for 14 years and I know".
- Another Currys salesman advised me to pick an LCD monitor with the lowest response time. He can be forgiven for this as many are misleaded by manufacturers' quoted response times.

As I said, it's not just high street retailers that are shocking. Dell, who arguably should know better, responded to a question regarding a WIFI card that was not working properly, by asking if the computer was switched on! (I told him what I could see on the screen).

With respect to the LG TV appearing to look better, it is not inconceivable that better post processing software is being used in the LG but this should not lead to a description of "disgusting" for the Sharp so I can only assume that there was another issue with the Sharp TV, rather than the post processing (which is usually incorrectly named upscaling). You should have replaced it in the store since it has deterred customers (or maybe the cynical in me believes your store wanted to sell the LG model very quickly).


Hi me again, well let me first start of with an apology I completely agree and with your permission I would like to show this thread to my manager so I can book the tv in for repair. There is no ulterior motive with regards to selling the LG as the sharp isn't in our branch stock a customer bought it from dixons and returned it to our store. It is on display, I would love to show you so I can prove just how bad it looks. It is a DVD playing and as for the ghosting your right it isn't ghosting it's just a phrase that gets thrown about a lot on forums. I am going to propose to the manager to try a bluray connected via hdmi to see if it looks better that way. This debate has been very intriguing for me and I feel I can take this information away with me and be more knowledgable with regards to LED tvs. I still cannot wait for OLED though.

Regarding dsgi staff, yes we have a very bad name for giving the wrong advice most of the time, but were not all like that I know it doesn't look it but I try my best to be knowledgable about my products. The LED technology is fairly new to me but I know the basics such as side mounted LEDs etc. Seeing by the logic applied by sharp with the LED matrix and the theory behind it leads me to conclude that the panel is faulty in which case I will test the unit tonight and book in for repair if need be. Lastly thank you for your very informed posts it has helped me to understand the technology behind LED's :friends:
#25
djstrobe4real
Hi me again, well let me first start of with an apology I completely agree and with your permission I would like to show this thread to my manager so I can book the tv in for repair. There is no ulterior motive with regards to selling the LG as the sharp isn't in our branch stock a customer bought it from dixons and returned it to our store. It is on display, I would love to show you so I can prove just how bad it looks. It is a DVD playing and as for the ghosting your right it isn't ghosting it's just a phrase thy gets thrown about a lot on forums. I am going o
propose to the manager totry a bluray connected via hdmi to see if it looks better that way. This debate has been very intriguing for me and I feel I can take this information away with me and be more knowledgeable with regards to LED tvs. I still annot wait for OLED though.

Regarding dsgi staff, yes we have a very bad name for giving the wrong advice most of the time, but were not all like that I know it doesn't look it but I try my best to be knowledgable about my products. The LED technology is fairly new to me but I know the basics such as side mounted LEDs etc. Seeing by the logic applied by sharp with the LED matrix and the theory behind it leads me to conclude that the panel is faulty in which case I will test the unit tonight and book in for repair if need be. Lastly thank you for your very informed posts it has helped me to understand the technology behind LED's :friends:


Feel free to show my comments to your manager. Regarding my comment with respect to trying to sell the LG TV, I said that in jest. I am sure the Sharp TV is showing a substandard picture but at this juncture it is difficult to diagnose the reasons. You could try unplugging the component cable from the LG TV and plugging it into the Sharp TV. Also, the menu in the software should allow for the picture to be sharpened. There could also be a fault with the analogue to digital converter (since the analogue signal must be converted to digital). I certainly recommend using HDMI to show off your TVs because there will be no analogue to digital conversion which degrades the picture. Furthermore, there is no digital to analogue conversion from the source (ie. the DVD player), resulting in further degradation. It will be a straight digital to digital feed.

You do not need to apologise (apart from cheekily accusing me of using Wikipedia but I do know who has been looking in Wikipedia/some other source of reference within this thread, without fully understanding it). You may still have a valid case that the Sharp TV in question may well be of poor quality, albeit contrary to user reviews, but I can assure you that LED technology is not the reason behind it. Once again, please do not apologise. Many people do comment on my choice of wordings which appears to be argumentative but that's how I speak.

By the way, in our research regarding staff knowledge, DSG fared better than many other retailers. It was still shocking though but the majority of the other were too. It was the smaller specialist retailers such as Kustom PCs, LinITX who topped the list.
#26
I am ware of these points. I was simply trying to clarify what I thought djstrobe4real meant by ghosting. Blurring of static text would most likely just be due to upscaling then. djstrobe might have meant "Ghosting, very blurry text" implying that there is ghosting on moving objects and also any text displayed is blurry. My TV has a demo mode for showing its motion compensation features which shows the difference between horizontal scrolling text with and without filtering at the bottom and then shows a split screen of the image at the top.

When I first turned my TV on it gave me a choice between setting it to "Shop display mode" and home mode. The brightness was turned way up on the shop mode which wasn't desirable for home viewing but would make it stand out in a shop.
#27
ElliottC;8342924
There is absolutely no doubt that LCD TVs cannot compare with plasma TVs regarding black levels.

That's just it, LED backlit can not only compete with plasmas, the better ones can beat all current plasmas (but not the Pioneer Kuros, which are no longer made).
However, at 0.11cd/m2 this model is doing no better than "old" ccfl-backlit lcds.
#28
arfster
That's just it, LED backlit can not only compete with plasmas, the better ones can beat all current plasmas (but not the Pioneer Kuros, which are no longer made).
However, at 0.11cd/m2 this model is doing no better than "old" ccfl-backlit lcds.


LED backlit or not, an LCD TV cannot compete with a plasma TV for black levels. You were correct first time round.

Here is an enlightening article that underlines the pros and cons of the differing types of flat screen technology. It reinforces what has been mentioned by yourself and others in that a full rear mounted matrix of LEDs will produce better blacks than edge-mounted LEDs and that plasma technology excel in the picture quality department:

http://www.techradar.com/news/television/hdtv/led-tvs-10-things-you-need-to-know-637079
#29
MattTS
I am ware of these points. I was simply trying to clarify what I thought djstrobe4real meant by ghosting. Blurring of static text would most likely just be due to upscaling then. djstrobe might have meant "Ghosting, very blurry text" implying that there is ghosting on moving objects and also any text displayed is blurry. My TV has a demo mode for showing its motion compensation features which shows the difference between horizontal scrolling text with and without filtering at the bottom and then shows a split screen of the image at the top.

When I first turned my TV on it gave me a choice between setting it to "Shop display mode" and home mode. The brightness was turned way up on the shop mode which wasn't desirable for home viewing but would make it stand out in a shop.


I'm not convinced that post processing (following an upscale) is the culprit. Upscaling on its own can lead to a blocky picture (the pixels are interpolated, which is what upscaling is) but further processing (if the TV possess the feature) smoothens the blockiness resulted from the upscale. I am more inclined to blame a faulty or highly attenuated cable or an A/D converter but it is too difficult to diagnose why the picture is of such a low standard. It may also be the DVD player is trying to send a 1080P signal which the TV cannot receive through component (even if the TV has a resolution capable of a 1080P image). Some TVs can only accept a 1080P feed via HDMI or DVI.
#30
"You do not need to apologise (apart from cheekily accusing me of using Wikipedia but I do know who has been looking in Wikipedia/some other source of reference within this thread, without fully understanding it)."

I hope you don't mean me since I'm an electronic engineering student. I have taken modules in image processing too.
#31
ElliottC
LED backlit or not, an LCD TV cannot compete with a plasma TV for black levels. You were correct first time round.



Actually, several more than compete. A table of measurements in foot-lamberts (lower is better):


0.001 - best led-backlit lcd sets, eg LG LH8500 and Samsung B8500 (Pioneer Kuros were in this area too)
0.008 - Panasonic 2009/2010 models (but they get worse over time, up to 3x worse)
0.012 - Samsung 2009 b600/800 models, and probably 700/800 models this year
0.013 - LG pk550 (this year's bargain it seems)
......
0.032 - this Sharp set



The major advantages plasmas hold over LCDs now are in motion resolution and particularly off-axis contrast.
#32
arfster
Actually, several more than compete. A table of measurements in foot-lamberts (lower is better):


0.001 - best led-backlit lcd sets, eg LG LH8500 and Samsung B8500 (Pioneer Kuros were in this area too)
0.008 - Panasonic 2009/2010 models (but they get worse over time, up to 3x worse)
0.012 - Samsung 2009 b600/800 models, and probably 700/800 models this year
0.013 - LG pk550 (this year's bargain it seems)
......
0.032 - this Sharp set



The major advantages plasmas hold over LCDs now are in motion resolution and particularly off-axis contrast.


Can you give me a link to the source of this information, please? I do not believe for one moment that LED backlit LCD TVs better plasma TVs in terms of black level. An LCD panel simply filters light, whether LED backlighting or CCFL backlighting is used. With rear mounted LCDs, localised dimming is effective in producing deeper blacks than edge-lit LEDs or CCFL screens. Despite localised dimming, there will be other LEDs that are on. The corollary is that collateral light will inevitably seep through. Only when every single LED is switched off do we encounter true or near true blacks. Plasma TVs do not use a backlight and consequently I believe the figures you have quoted were resulted from certain conditions. However, I am willing to accept whatever counter argument you have as I would be interested in how a screen with LED lights that are STILL ON can produce such low luminance readings. Note that the figures you have posted are based on luminance over a relatively large area (one square foot) which makes the figures even more outlandish.

Oh don't forget that if the figures you have provided are manufacturers' quoted figures, they are misleading. Quoted figures are usually (but not always) based on the condition where every LED is switched off. This is very much akin to contrast ratios (where dynamic contrast is used to shift the range from lower end to upper end and vice versa) or response times (where manufacturers use the quickest pixel to pixel response and not an average - some pixels respond much quicker to certain colour changes than others).
#33
Numerous reviews have measurements, although most large sites aren't very professional - you're generally better off hanging around avsforum, aka AV nerdsville :-) Anyway, here's a proper calibration report of an LH90, done by an ISF calibrator:

http://www.tweaktv.com/images/stories/lg%20lg55lh90%20post%20calibration%20report%20(isf-1).pdf


This one shows 0.002fL blacks - to be blunt, down that low even $10,000 light meters have trouble accurately measuring such black levels even in a totally dark room. Like a Kuro, it's basically perfect black. When the blacks are so minimal, secondary factors become more important, like gamma response <5% stimulus, anti-glare coatings, blooming caused by local-dimming, and with lcds off-axis contrast/black problems (which is why I'd never buy an lcd, they're all terrible on this front).

Of course, like any technology improvement, local dimming varies in quality. Samsung have got it working very well now, but only on the expensive sets. LG are the only ones to do it at a decent price. Others you're not talking a quantum leap in performance from edge-backlit or even ccfl-backlit, and some (like the Sharp of this post) are barely any better at all on the black level front - even the budget Samsung 550 does a lot better than the LCDs.


Anyway, black levels is one of those statistical measurements that can be misused - it doesn't tell the whole story, and has to be considered within the overall picture quality of the set. This site by another isf calibrator is an excellent summary:
http://hdtvbychadb.com/reviews.htm

Scroll down a bit for the table - see he has the UNB8500 and LH90 the same as the Kuros, but shadow detail is nowhere near as good. Indeed, plasma sets with worse black levels (still very good!) like the Panasonic V10 and Samsung B860 he actually rates higher on shadow detail. Overall he still has the Kuro Elites as the best sets ever made by a fair distance, and having seen a calibrated example it's pretty hard to disagree with that.




ps foot-lambert is a standard btw, but it's not a square foot that's measured :-) Most light-meters measure a tiny area, and the standard for plasma calibration is a 10% window in the centre of the screen (although for LCDs this isn't necessary).
#34
arfster
Numerous reviews have measurements, although most large sites aren't very professional - you're generally better off hanging around avsforum, aka AV nerdsville :-) Anyway, here's a proper calibration report of an LH90, done by an ISF calibrator:

http://www.tweaktv.com/images/stories/lg%20lg55lh90%20post%20calibration%20report%20(isf-1).pdf


This one shows 0.002fL blacks - to be blunt, down that low even $10,000 light meters have trouble accurately measuring such black levels even in a totally dark room. Like a Kuro, it's basically perfect black. When the blacks are so minimal, secondary factors become more important, like gamma response <5% stimulus, anti-glare coatings, blooming caused by local-dimming, and with lcds off-axis contrast/black problems (which is why I'd never buy an lcd, they're all terrible on this front).



Foot-lambert is a standard btw, but it's not a square foot that's measured :-) Most light-meters measure a tiny area, and the standard for plasma calibration is a 10% window in the centre of the screen (for LCDs you can use fullscreen, makes no difference).


I must admit that I don't know what foot-lambert is and merely assumed it is a measurement of luminance per square foot. What is the connection with "foot" and the nomenclature? Is this based on an interpolation of luminance as distance increases up to one foot? The nomenclature cannot mention the word "foot" for no reason since industry standard naming (assuming that foot-lambert is an industry standard) have to be very well defined.


In the PDF document that you kindly provided, there is no labelling on the charts, in particular the luminance chart nor does it specify under what conditions the measurements were taken (ie. were all other LEDs turned off at the time). If I give the benefit of the doubt it would be a staggering feat to produce almost true blacks on when there are other LEDs on at the time. How the collateral light from other LEDs are blocked out I don't know. EDIT : After seeing further additions to your post, black levels reading most certainly can be misused as with contrast ratios and pixel response times.

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