Panasonic Digital camera half price at Argos - £79.99 @ Argos - HotUKDeals
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First post everbody and merry christmas.

The Panasonic camera FX12 has good reviews and is priced at approx 115 pounds in other shops, so looks like a good deal.
Hope this helps!
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8y, 11m agoFound 8 years, 11 months ago
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banned#1
A couple of things to note about Panasonic point & shoot cameras.


1. Noise - Anything above ISO 200-400 can be really poor. This will make low light photography impossible.

2. Images do tend to be on the soft side.

Read review below. However IMHO it is better to have soft images that are sharpened in photoshop rather than in camera, but if feel majority of users of this camera will just want to take their SD card to Boots are get them printed.

I would say it is possible to do better for your money.


The Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX12 is a stylish, well made and ultra-compact camera that you can carry with you wherever you go. The FX12 takes some of the best elements from the rest of the FX series, whilst becoming more affordable by using a lens that starts at 35mm and dropping a few features, notably using a low-resolution LCD screen and offering a very slow continuous shooting mode. Image quality is improved since the last generation of Lumix models. Panasonic have improved noise performance, so that ISO 400 on the FX12 is about equal to ISO 200 on the old models, which increases the cameras low-light capabilities. ISO 100-400 still isn't particularly versatile, but the usual excellent optical image stabilisation system makes the FX12 a more adaptable camera than its predecessors, as you can take a photo at a faster ISO speed and therefore a slower shutter speed, and still get sharp results, without adversely affecting the battery life too much. The High Sensitivity mode provides a fastest ISO speed of 3200, but the image resolution is automatically reduced, resulting in smaller print sizes. The extension of the ISO range up to 1600 at full image resolution is even worse, in that you won't want to use the noisy ISO 800 and 1600 settings unless there is no other alternative. The inability to alter sharpness in the camera is also frustrating, as the images are soft by default. So overall, the new Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX12 is an easy-on-the-eye, intuitive, point-and-shoot digital camera with improved image quality and an attractive price-tag. Importantly Panasonic have improved the noise capabilities of this new Lumix model - let's hope that the rest of the range follows suit...
#2
Thanks for the info. I will not bother collecting my camera now.

Can you tell me where you got the review from. I looked at DBreview and that gave a decent review.

cheers
banned#3
It hasn't got all the big megapixel numbers but this is what I have

http://www.buyacamera.co.uk/xsearch.asp?RecId=FUJCA385&pt=f
[LIST]
[*]It is in a class of it's own for low light photgraphy
[*]Can be bettered in full on sunny days - (this UK and brilliant sunshine is not the best time to take photos)
[*]It is not quite an intuative as Canon P&S
[*]It has been replaced as Fuji have sucumbed to high mega pixel nonsense
[*]Battery life is second to none - We are talking 300 shots
[*]Fuji card is a pain as more expensive than others - (cheapr than rolls of film though)
[/LIST]

Read this

http://www.pbase.com/arn/fuji_f30


I am biased as I own the camera. Far better photographers than me have owned this camera and disliked it, yet far better photographers than me have owned this camera and think it is great.

You will not go wrong with this camera, and may even find it cheaper.

Do not buy F40 or F50.

Follow link above. If you were to own this camera, most of the tweaking is a one off setting.

This is the only digital camera I own and am happy to wait to see if Sony ever do produce a full frame SLR

Anyway.

It's all just my opinion.
#4
cheers for the info.

I have finally succumbed to my weakness for Canon ( I have only brought them in the past) and gone for the IXUS 75. Good deal at empiredirect for 99 quid.
#5
This is a great camera and for most people, you're not going to get much better for £80. It does have some shortcomings, but these are more than made up for so overall you get a great package.

Voted Hot

Big In depth review with loads of pics too (showing noise etc)

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews_panasonic_lumix_dmc_fx12.php
#6
It's a Which? Best Buy and I doubt you'd get a better camera for £79.99 - the previous best deal was £89.99 on eBuyer which was a total bargain.
#7
Bear in mind the camera does have IS which for still or slightly moving objects can still be very useful for low shutter speeds although unfortunately this little Panasonic does not have the 28mm lens some of the newer models does which I think is particularly good.

John
#8
Nice deal. I didn't read all the reviews of this camera, but it seems pretty good for taking family and other holidays photos. For £80 you cannot ask for more. Voted hot.
banned#9
I'm very sorry to comment again.


But soft, noisey pictures are pretty much the last thing that a snapshooter would want.

Yes I agree, the price is attractive, but for £15 - £20 more there will be loads more choices.


It depaends what is important to you. If it's just about price, then fine.

If it is to buy a camera, and not get sucked into the theory 'that I must replace my digital camera every 3 years because it's old and has smaller numbers than the current models', then I can only repeat what I have already stated. You can do better than this.
#10
Whereas I own a couple of Panasonic Lumix cameras, and they're great. Lenses superb, pictures fantastic. Ignore the rubbish about soft noisy pictures - if you're a pro, spend a couple of grand extra. If you want a great point and shoot then look no further. "Which" don't make poor cameras their "best buy".
banned#11
Why would you ignore soft noisy pictures? You don't have to be a pro or spend £2k for that to be a consideration.

Are you saying it is not important, or that it's not true.

'Which', the jack of all trades and master of none would hardly be where I would look.

Try looking on photo.net to see if any enthusiasts even mention this camera. There are over 250 posts in the Panasonic section.

Your love affair with Panasonic should not cloud other peoples judgement.

Remember enthusiasts can be students or pro's. They just look for a camera that will produce the best possible image within their budget.
#12
Lyrrad
It hasn't got all the big megapixel numbers but this is what I have

http://www.buyacamera.co.uk/xsearch.asp?RecId=FUJCA385&pt=f
[LIST]
[*]It is in a class of it's own for low light photgraphy
[*]Can be bettered in full on sunny days - (this UK and brilliant sunshine is not the best time to take photos)
[*]It is not quite an intuative as Canon P&S
[*]It has been replaced as Fuji have sucumbed to high mega pixel nonsense
[*]Battery life is second to none - We are talking 300 shots
[*]Fuji card is a pain as more expensive than others - (cheapr than rolls of film though)
[/LIST]

Read this



http://www.pbase.com/arn/fuji_f30


I am biased as I own the camera. Far better photographers than me have owned this camera and disliked it, yet far better photographers than me have owned this camera and think it is great.

You will not go wrong with this camera, and may even find it cheaper.

Do not buy F40 or F50.

Follow link above. If you were to own this camera, most of the tweaking is a one off setting.

This is the only digital camera I own and am happy to wait to see if Sony ever do produce a full frame SLR

Anyway.

It's all just my opinion.



I have the Fuji F30 and have to say it is an amazing camera. This camera takes superb pictures in low light. I have tried several different cameras in the past (Panasonic,Canon,Sony) and nothing comes close to the F30!
#13
We want an all round digital camera (naturally for as cheap as chips!) and don't know which to go for. Ideally no more than £100 with batteries that last longer than 2 minutes!

We want one with a view finder and have had the Canon Ixus 60 or 70 (£149.99 at Asda) recommended, together with the Canon Powershot A720is (£154.99 at Jessops through Quidco).

Help would be appreciated.
#14
Lyrrad

Do not buy F40 or F50.


Lyrrad, I'm looking for a compact that's decent in low light conditions and the Fuji's seem to be highly regarded, why won't you recommend the F40 or F50? Thanks

Rizza
#15
To quote Stevesdigicams and said of the same model but smaller memory.


Shooting performance was good. From power up to first image captured measured about 3.5 seconds. Shutter lag measured 1/10 of a second when pre- focused and 4/10 of a second including autofocus. Shooting in single exposure mode, it averaged approx. 1.5 seconds between frames without the use of the flash and about 2.2 seconds with the flash. The FX7 offers three Burst mode settings to choose from (Low-speed, High-speed, No-limit.) Using the Low-speed setting, I was able to capture 4 frames in about 2.2 seconds. High-speed captured 4 frames in approx. 1.8 seconds. No-limit mode allows you to continuously capture frames at about 2fps and is limited only by available memory. Our tests were done using a Sandisk Ultra II 512MB SD card, shooting in "Normal" mode, size/quality set at 2560x1920/Fine, flash off, and all other settings at default (unless otherwise noted.) Times may vary depending on lighting conditions, camera settings, media, etc.
The overall image quality when using 2560/Fine mode was good. The majority or our outdoor test shots were sharp and properly exposed, although colors were at bit on the cool side. We noticed an average amount of noise in high/low contrast areas, especially at ISO 400, as well as typical amounts of CA (Chromatic aberration) present around extreme highlights. You can see this by taking a look at our sample photos page. Portraits of individuals were well exposed and skin tones look very natural. Indoors it performs well. It has no problems focusing in low ambient lighting thanks to its focus-assist lamp. This is a key feature on digicams these days, and we are happy to see many manufactures adding them to their cameras. When shooting indoors, its flexible zoom range and flash should be sufficient for most indoor situations, although it would benefit from a stronger flash. However, it does "throttle down" when using Macro mode, which ensures it will not over-expose the subject. Bottom line - Panasonic's Lumix DMC-FX7 is a nice little digital package. This is a point-n-shoot that can be used by any member of the family. Its Simple mode will be great for the kids, and when Mom or Dad are ready, they can simply rotate the mode dial to "Normal" mode or choose one of the 9 creative scene modes. With a street price of around $500, its a bit expensive. For the price I would consider taking a look at Casio's 5-megapixel Exilim EX-Z55 at about $50 less or Sony's 5-megapixel CyberShot P100 which can be had for about $100 less.


Go to the sample page and then click on any of the images for a blow-up/close-up of any of the pics taken with this camera. - Then make your own mind up.
banned#16
Rizza
Lyrrad, I'm looking for a compact that's decent in low light conditions and the Fuji's seem to be highly regarded, why won't you recommend the F40 or F50? Thanks

Rizza




You see Fuji want to sell cameras. Nice new shiney ones. The f30/f31fd are pretty much the same. If it ain't broken, why fix it?

If you want to print to a maximum of A4, I can assure you the 6pm F30/F31d will allow you to so at ISO 800 no problems whatsoever.


Overall conclusion of F50fd from dpreview.com

Like any sequel the F50fd was always going to suffer by comparison to its illustrious predecessor, so is Fujifilm's new flagship compact a Godfather II or a Matrix Reloaded? The answer, unsurprisingly, is that it's neither one or the other, but something somewhere in between.

Although the F31fd (and the F30 before it) was a fairly bland compact camera, it was blessed with an outstanding imaging sensor and set the benchmark in terms of image quality, most specifically low light performance. Fujifilm achieved this through some very clever technology in its Super--CCD sensor and Real Photo imaging processor but also, and most importantly, through the bold decision to not jump onto the megapixel bandwagon. Instead, it put a flagship compact camera with a relatively large sensor sporting only six megapixels on the market at a time when most competitors already were heading towards double digit resolution figures.

Of course the pressure for Fuji to rejoin the megapixel race was intense (it's easier for a retailer to sell more megapixels than it is to sell 'better high ISO performance'); the annoucement that the much-anticipated replacement for the F50fd was going to sqeeze twice as many pixels onto a sensor only fractionally larger was grimly inevitable. The news was met with a resigned shrug by even the most avid Fujifilm fanatic: "Oh well, it was great while it lasted".

And so it would be fair to say that we started testing the F50fd with some trepidation. Of course technology doesn't stand still, and Fujifilm will have been loathe to throw away its high ISO advantage, so we still harboured a vague hope that they'd managed to pull some more of that Super CCD magic out of the hat...

The good news is that - forgetting the F31fd for a moment - the F50fd is an excellent point and shoot camera that deserves a place near the top of its class. Sure, Fujifilm listened to its marketing department and installed a 12MP sensor, but the F50fd's high ISO performance is still surprisingly good. On a per-pixel basis it is certainly not on a par with its predecessor but on an output level, i.e. on a print of the same size or a computer monitor the difference isn't huge. Of course it would have been a lot better with 8 million larger pixels, but I'm afraid even Fujifilm isn't brave enough to launch a premium compact camera so 'under powered' in today's market.

Anyway, the sensor/processing unit of the F50fd is quite an achievement. From ISO 200-800 it puts most of the competition to shame, and even ISO 1600 can produce usable output within limits. Images show natural colors and good detail, there's no need to spend hours with your imaging software to get pictures ready for print, they are perfect straight out of the box. It might not look great at a pixel level, but you can say that about most current cameras, and with 12 megapixels who's going to be looking that close? (if you are, I'm afraid you need an SLR).

In general the F50fd is an enjoyable camera to use, the buttons are in the right places and the materials feel good in your hand. Even the plastic used on the back has a 'premium' feel to it. The latest generation of the Real Photo processor is a great performer, not only image quality wise but also in terms of speed of operation. Apart from the fairly long file writing times (especially in burst mode) the camera always feels snappy and responsive. Like most compact cameras the F50fd was not designed for action photography but it never lets you down when you need to take a quick shot.

The camera's feature set is nothing to write home about, but it is a cut above the average 'point and shoot' model. From a photography enthusiast's point of view the Aperture and Shutter Speed priority modes are probably the most interesting features, though operation of these semi-manual modes can be slightly fiddly. If you're after a comprehensive range of manual photographic controls you should probably not be looking at this camera anyway. Face detection 2.0 works, although not as well as Fujifilm claims in its brochures (the red-eye removal is, however, remarkably effective). If a face is viewed from an angle the detection rate is still very low but higher than on previous models. Whether face detection is a useful function you'll have to decide for yourself but it certainly does its job as a party trick.

On the downside we should probably mention the slow focus in macro mode. In itself that's not much of a problem but it can get fairly annoying if you have to use macro mode to photograph someone across a dinner table because of the camera's long minimum focus distance. Battery life is fairly average but still disappointing since the F31fd was the class leader in this respect, with more than double the F50fd's capacity. This is a consequence of the new camera's slim design, which is not compatible with a larger battery.

In spite of the minor flaws and the slightly pedestrian feature set, despite the fact that Fujifilm has actively narrowed the gap between its Super CCD sensor and conventional CCD compacts by squeezing too many pixels in - and despite the fact that there is little if any real benefit to the resolution hike, the F50fd is still one of the better pocket cameras on the market. At ISO 400 it's basically in a class of its own (something you're more likely to see in larger prints, admittedly), but once you get over ISO 800 the Super CCD advantage brings diminishing returns on this sensor.

And so to the rating. There was quite a lot of discussion here as to whether the F50fd should be marked down for being such a disappointing step backwards from the F31fd - no matter how unsurprising that was. The replacement of the F31fd means the end of the line for a sensor that over four generations of Fujifilm compact cameras has shown that there is an alternative to pointless megapixel increases and noisy results at anything over base ISO. Whilst the F50fd still has a lead over its conventional CCD competitors that advantage has been cut down to little more than a whisker, and this is a regrettable and slightly depressing indication of where the compact camera manufacturers' priorities lie.

Ultimately though, the F50fd must be judged on its own merits and in the context of the market as it is today, and on those grounds it just scrapes our highest award. But if anyone from Fujifilm is listening, please, please don't give up on the pursuit of usable high ISO image quality in compact cameras - you were our last hope, and on the evidence here you've thrown in the towel.
banned#17
Rizza
Lyrrad, I'm looking for a compact that's decent in low light conditions and the Fuji's seem to be highly regarded, why won't you recommend the F40 or F50? Thanks

Rizza


Just lifted this from photo.net

From my research the F30/31 are unique. I can't find any other compact digital camera that even comes close to their high ISO capability. Yes, there are many cameras that are built better, have better features, etc..., but at ISO 800 they all really suck compared to the F30/31. Notice that while F30/31's were tagged $200 when they were new, now they are selling used on Ebay for $400+. It's too bad that Fuji's marketing research shows people respond more favorably to big megapixel counts when purchasing cameras than image quality. The only time I'm interested in using a point-n-shoot is indoors at higher ISOs. I don't need 12mp; I need tolerable ISO 800 quality. I would never pay $200 for the F50 (or whatever their newest model is), but if Fuji reintroduced the F31 I'd gladly pay $300 for a new one.


The appeal of this camera is that it is great at producing photos in exactly the right enviroment used by snappers. Set it to ISO 800 - 1600 and indoor photgraphy can be without that red eye because you won't be using your flash. Don't get me wrong, there are a few areas I don't like with this camera (it sets a too high ISO when using flash) but it is possible to easily overcome this and other problems).

The most ridiculous thing about the Fuji F30/F31fd and I believe all Fuji's is what Fuji consider to be Manual setting.
#18
Lyrrad
Just lifted this from photo.net

From my research the F30/31 are unique. I can't find any other compact digital camera that even comes close to their high ISO capability. Yes, there are many cameras that are built better, have better features, etc..., but at ISO 800 they all really suck compared to the F30/31. Notice that while F30/31's were tagged $200 when they were new, now they are selling used on Ebay for $400+. It's too bad that Fuji's marketing research shows people respond more favorably to big megapixel counts when purchasing cameras than image quality. The only time I'm interested in using a point-n-shoot is indoors at higher ISOs. I don't need 12mp; I need tolerable ISO 800 quality. I would never pay $200 for the F50 (or whatever their newest model is), but if Fuji reintroduced the F31 I'd gladly pay $300 for a new one.


The appeal of this camera is that it is great at producing photos in exactly the right enviroment used by snappers. Set it to ISO 800 - 1600 and indoor photgraphy can be without that red eye because you won't be using your flash. Don't get me wrong, there are a few areas I don't like with this camera (it sets a too high ISO when using flash) but it is possible to easily overcome this and other problems).

The most ridiculous thing about the Fuji F30/F31fd and I believe all Fuji's is what Fuji consider to be Manual setting.


Hi Lyrrad, can I just ask you what do you reckon are the best settings to have for both low light and outdoor scenes on the F30?
banned#19
magicone
Hi Lyrrad, can I just ask you what do you reckon are the best settings to have for both low light and outdoor scenes on the F30?



Hi

Follow this guy.

http://www.pbase.com/arn/fuji_f30


He has done so much more work on your camera. I have followed his settings although I have f31fd.


At the end of the review you will see a little forum has emerged.

I follow his average metering choice, but I have mine set to Multi and always have dialed in -1/3 exposure compensation. Again maybe f31 - f30 differences, and the fact it's my point & shoot camera. He likes to work on his images in Photoshop afterwards and feels there is more for him to work with using average imaging.

However play around and decide for yourself on that.

Please though. DO read his web page. You will then really see what you own.


Obviously I try to use lowest ISO I can, so 100 outdoors and always use 800 indoors and 1600 if needed. (when you see that red hand you know you should be upping your ISO, increasing shutter speed or opening up the lens). The ability ti use 800 iso is the real winner of this camera.

Great Canons struggle above iso 200 maybe 400.
#20
Lyrrad
Hi

Follow this guy.

http://www.pbase.com/arn/fuji_f30


He has done so much more work on your camera. I have followed his settings although I have f31fd.


At the end of the review you will see a little forum has emerged.

I follow his average metering choice, but I have mine set to Multi and always have dialed in -1/3 exposure compensation. Again maybe f31 - f30 differences, and the fact it's my point & shoot camera. He likes to work on his images in Photoshop afterwards and feels there is more for him to work with using average imaging.

However play around and decide for yourself on that.

Please though. DO read his web page. You will then really see what you own.


Obviously I try to use lowest ISO I can, so 100 outdoors and always use 800 indoors and 1600 if needed. (when you see that red hand you know you should be upping your ISO, increasing shutter speed or opening up the lens). The ability ti use 800 iso is the real winner of this camera.

Great Canons struggle above iso 200 maybe 400.



Cheers for that. Its such a shame Fuji have stoped making this camera as its a winner in my eyes. I payed £130 for my F30 from ebay which I think was well worth the money!
#21
I'm after anew camera as my old Sony Cybershot is not up to scratch. I want a camera that takes a picture as soon as possible after pressing the button. Cause taking pictures of my daughter she has moved by the time my Sony has taken 10 seconds to actually take the picture.

Was after a Lumix as they seemed a good choice. Would be interested in recommendations up to £150.
banned#22
magicone
Cheers for that. Its such a shame Fuji have stoped making this camera as its a winner in my eyes. I payed £130 for my F30 from ebay which I think was well worth the money!




You can still get f31fd

http://www.buyacamera.co.uk/xsearch.asp?RecId=FUJCA385&pt=f
banned#23
fleetingmind
I'm after anew camera as my old Sony Cybershot is not up to scratch. I want a camera that takes a picture as soon as possible after pressing the button. Cause taking pictures of my daughter she has moved by the time my Sony has taken 10 seconds to actually take the picture.

Was after a Lumix as they seemed a good choice. Would be interested in recommendations up to £150.


10 seconds seems a long time. Shutter is pretty much a thing of the past, certainly to the extent you are quoting. How old is your child? If you are talking about indoor photography then, although I'm now sounding like a broken record, the Fuji F31fd (as it is still available), is quite simply ideal. See my link above.
#24


Fuji Finepix F31 FD is Out of Stock ...when you add to basket.

The F30/F31 are very difficult to get hold of...the only two places that have them are the fuji refurb shop and ebay . You have to keep your eye out on each site as stock appears now and again.
#25
Lyrrad;1385074
Why would you ignore soft noisy pictures? You don't have to be a pro or spend £2k for that to be a consideration.

Are you saying it is not important, or that it's not true.

'Which', the jack of all trades and master of none would hardly be where I would look.

Try looking on photo.net to see if any enthusiasts even mention this camera. There are over 250 posts in the Panasonic section.

Your love affair with Panasonic should not cloud other peoples judgement.

Remember enthusiasts can be students or pro's. They just look for a camera that will produce the best possible image within their budget.

I'm saying that the pictures are neither soft or noisy. They are as good as any I would hope for. I have a finepiz f700 - it's **** and very unreliable. I have a Canon IXUS i7 - lovely, but £80 (I won mine!)? I wish. Lumix are excellent IMHO.
banned#26
graybags
I'm saying that the pictures are neither soft or noisy. They are as good as any I would hope for. I have a finepiz f700 - it's **** and very unreliable. I have a Canon IXUS i7 - lovely, but £80 (I won mine!)? I wish. Lumix are excellent IMHO.



Okay.

To say Lumix are excellent IMHO is an incredible sweeping statement. Do you mean all of them, just the ones you own or the FX12.

Do you have the FX12? I don't and can only go on what I have read, but it falls into line with what I already knew. This coupled with soft images is a real minus point. I can only assume that the reviewer who stated this camera has soft images know what he is talkng about. The only way to eradicate soft images is to sharpen them. By sharpening an image one has no choice but to add noise, yes more noise.

IMHO it is how Panasonic have tried to mask their noise issue. In camera sharpening is pretty bog standard (and as it so happens I would rather sharpen myself in Photoshop), so by making the image less sharp (soft) they have instantly been able to reduce the apparent noise issue. However the reviewer still states their is the 'normal' noise issue above 400iso and indeed states this camera is better than a lot of Lumix who have that same issue at 200iso. I put it to you that if Panasonic had wanted to they could have made the images sharpen (not soft) at the expense of more noise.

So as I see it to make a positive about this camera it would be possible to take a JPG and sharpen it in Photoshop, creating more noise, but ending up with an image that would be less noisey than if the on board camera software had done it


Panasonic do have a tendancy to make camera's that are more noisey than their direct rivals. If you can't accept that then there is no point in continuing this discussion. If you were to compare my F31fd to any Lumix you care to throw at me you would 100% see the issue. at 400iso and 800iso. No if's or buts.

Don't get me wrong, the partnership between Panasonic & Leica is a great thing. However at this range Leica, Canon, Nikon and Fuji (and any others I've missed) are all producing similar grade lens.

I was once told that factories in China are producing Canon on a monday and Nikon on a Tuesday. Whilst it was told tongue in cheek, I can believe the truth would not be a million miles from this. One thing for sure this Panasonic is not getting a hand built Leica lens.

I read good things about some Panasonic models and do not dismiss them. I would have no issue buying one if it suited by needs.

On the written evidence of this camera I re-state my stance than one can do better.



Out of interest just picked this up from Amazon


61 of 61 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars Probably the best and most highly respected compact camera currently available., 20 Jun 2007
By Doughty - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
You may already know that this unassuming little camera, along with its predecessor, the F30, is widely considered a modern classic. What is unique is its proprietary Fuji sensor which, whilst not the highest in pixel count, currently offers by far the best low-light performance of any compact on the market. That is not just my opinion - read the major review sites to see how this camera stands out.

In real terms you get great pictures in conditions that flummox most non-SLR cameras, especially in typically overcast UK conditions or indoors when normal cameras would force you to resort to unflattering use of flash.

Having previously been a little disappointed with the results of a tiny Panasonic Lumix, which produced shockingly noisy prints even in bright weather, I did plenty of research before buying this Fuji. Whilst this is a fraction larger, it is still highly pocketable and the final image quality is far superior. It may not have the image stabilisation of the Lumix or my larger KM A200 but it more than makes up for it in low-noise high ISO modes.

I have taken lovely hand-held shots from my flat of night rolling in over the city, something I wouldn't normally contemplate without a long exposure on a tripod. More importantly for me, the F31fd takes impeccable natural light portraits of my baby daughters whether indoors or out.

I was tempted to go for the newer F40fd with 8MP sensor and SD card compatibility until I found it lacked manual modes and looked ugly and cheap in comparison (though some reviews prefer it proving the old adage that beauty is in the eye of the beholder). Why they didn't just upgrade the sensor and maybe offer a black option I will never know, but it's telling that they have retained the F31fd alongside.

Anyway, this attractive, solid camera is as good as compacts get right now. Besides, after about 5MP the typical limiting factor on compacts is lens and CCD quality rather than CCD pixel count. With higher resolutions shrinking the individual pixel area it may be that image quality actually rolls off with current 8MP compact sensors. This Fuji may not have Leica glass or a 28mm wide angle end, but its lens does a great job of retaining optical resolution. It also has great ergonomics and handling and a usable face detection system.

The only things I can fault the Fuji F31fd on are the lack of a (rare) timelapse facility, no image stabilisation (though it does have an anti-blur mode that uses its incredible high-ISO performance), the lack of a true wide-angle lens, its reliance on (increasingly cheap) XD cards and the absence of widescreen 16:9 movie or photo modes.

All in all, this is a tremendous little camera capable of astonishing real-world results for far less investment than supposedly better brands. I can't recommend it highly enough, even or perhaps especially if you're after a point and shoot.
suspended#27
ignore the comments, this has great reviews, i read many before buying this, i paid £90 off ebuyer 2 weeks ago, so £80 is very nice indeed!
banned#28
hajj_3
ignore the comments, this has great reviews, i read many before buying this, i paid £90 off ebuyer 2 weeks ago, so £80 is very nice indeed!



Perhaps you could post the link for 1 or 2 of those reviews.

I can't find any that give it a good review. In fact most of the reviews I have read are based around the self same review. DPreview talked about how wonderful the camera could be PRIOR to release and then nothing. And they were talking about everything other than how the final image would look. Nothing on Photonet either.

I really get fed up with owners that just say 'ignore the comments' or 'forget that rubbish'. Just because you have it doesn't mean its good. You state you read many reviews, why would you want others to ignore anything. Did you buy it based around someone saying ignore the negative comments. No. You quite clearly state you 'read many'.

For £80.00 I'll buy my father one if you can show me good reviews. Unless of course a good review in your mind is 'ignore the comments'. And then I will retract my interest in this camera.
suspended#29
Lyrrad;1386870
Perhaps you could post the link for 1 or 2 of those reviews.

I can't find any that give it a good review. In fact most of the reviews I have read are based around the self same review. DPreview talked about how wonderful the camera could be PRIOR to release and then nothing. And they were talking about everything other than how the final image would look. Nothing on Photonet either.

I really get fed up with owners that just say 'ignore the comments' or 'forget that rubbish'. Just because you have it doesn't mean its good. You state you read many reviews, why would you want others to ignore anything. Did you buy it based around someone saying ignore the negative comments. No. You quite clearly state you 'read many'.

For £80.00 I'll buy my father one if you can show me good reviews. Unless of course a good review in your mind is 'ignore the comments'. And then I will retract my interest in this camera.


maybe try googling! you might want to try being more polite if you want people to help you.
banned#30
hajj_3
maybe try googling! you might want to try being more polite if you want people to help you.



Sorry if you think I was rude. I have put foward IMHO a good case for why this camera is not very good. I havn't just said 'Don't buy this, it's ****'


Please understand I have no real interest in buying this camera. My research shows it to be poor. All I have had to contend with is 'ignore the comments', 'ingnore the rubbish'. To me that is impolite without any evidence to support those kind of comments.


I have tried google but cannot find a good review. All I find is soft images that can be corrected in PS and noise at around 400iso. The noise issue is so well chronicled with Panasonic, I fail to understand how an owner could not be aware of it. The combination of soft images and noise is a very poor combination and would be a major concern. it is that combination that has led me to state this camera can be bettered, especially by those users that will not be post processing. If that is what I read on the negative and all I read on the positive is 'ignore the rubbish' or 'ignore those negative comments' it leads me to wonder what is going on.

So please, just 1 or 2 reviews. Not for me, but for those that are keen to buy this camera. I have looked in all the normal places I would go.

Once again sorry if I came across as rude to you.
#31
hajj_3
maybe try googling! you might want to try being more polite if you want people to help you.


I think he has been very helpful and provided good reviews and LINKS

He seems quite knowledgeable and wants to make sure fellow members get a good deal, so what is wrong with him asking for someone to post a link as if they have read the review then it would only take a second to post

keep up the good work:thumbsup:
#32
@Lyrrad, I have been thinking about getting one of the new panasonic lumix cameras

the 3 that I have been pondering are

tz3
fx55
fx 100

willing to pay up to £200 so they all fall within this bracket although the fx100 is £320 in jessops and panasonic website:w00t:

anyway, I have a one year old kid that I want to get lots of good pictures but she never sits still:-D

so i liked the idea of the intellagent auto on the fx55

i am not too bothered about mega pixels as i will only be printing out on a4 size

do these cameras suffer from the soft image?

I don't have a clue about settings so it would always be on auto

Or do you have a recommendation in the sub £200, it has to be a pocket digital camera as I do not want to go for a bridge or slr?

I have looked at loads of reviews but just can't make up my mind.

Thanks

Mark
banned#33
marco67
@Lyrrad, I have been thinking about getting one of the new panasonic lumix cameras

the 3 that I have been pondering are

tz3
fx55
fx 100

willing to pay up to £200 so they all fall within this bracket although the fx100 is £320 in jessops and panasonic website:w00t:

anyway, I have a one year old kid that I want to get lots of good pictures but she never sits still:-D

so i liked the idea of the intellagent auto on the fx55

i am not too bothered about mega pixels as i will only be printing out on a4 size

do these cameras suffer from the soft image?

I don't have a clue about settings so it would always be on auto

Or do you have a recommendation in the sub £200, it has to be a pocket digital camera as I do not want to go for a bridge or slr?

I have looked at loads of reviews but just can't make up my mind.

Thanks

Mark



Have a look at Canon A570 IS - It's about £115.00 and worth consideration as iso 800 is usable. The A range from Canon will always be a safe bet, but it is all too easy to pay an extra £50 for 'bells & whistles' . Easy to use, and with a 1 year old it's only gonna get more difficult as she/he gets older. So point and shoot nice to have. I will lokk at other 2 Panasonics as I said. In fact this thread has made me look more closely than I have done for some time at this area. There are so many to choose from. Panasonic sure are stylish.


Overall conclusion

Canon's A series PowerShots were originally designed as 'entry level' cameras but since have quite clearly moved out of their original market segment. A series PowerShots have improved with each generation and - thanks to the inclusion of comprehensive manual controls and technologies such as the new DIGIC III imaging processor and image stabilization - have become a viable weapon of choice not only for beginners but also the more advanced photographer with limited resources.

The A570 IS takes the succesful formula of previous cameras such as the A530/540 - well-priced, compact cameras with a useful zoom range and extensive photographic control - and adds the one thing that was missing, an effective optical image stabilization system. Image stabilization is certainly the most important new feature introduced with this new camera; the increased megapixel count or a larger screen will almost certainly not have any significant impact on your shooting.

The A570 IS offers a lot of camera for what is a very low price. The camera is very responsive, the output quality very good, exposure and focus reliable, and the amount of photographic control on offer is superb. The ability to further expand the camera's abilities with add-on lenses and a flash is also a definite plus point.

There are only a couple of points that merit some criticism, the most crucial one being the flash recycling times. In a typical 'social' shooting situation having to wait up to 10 seconds (with weak batteries) to take the next picture can be fairly frustrating, not only for the photographer but also his subjects. We found the battery life in general quite disappointing (with AA batteries), it is therefore recommendable to always carry a spare set of batteries, the battery warning icon will come on rather sooner than later.

Image quality issues are almost negligible, there is some minor evidence of CA, color blooming and highlight clipping but all these 'problems' occur on a very small scale and almost certainly won't have any negative impact on your prints (unless you print at poster size).

So in conclusion, with the Canon A570 IS you get a nicely designed, responsive camera with more than enough features to keep most users - especially those wanting a little more manual control than is normal at this price point - happy. If you don't mind it not being the fastest 'social' snapshot camera in the world (the flash recycling puts paid to that), this is a perfect camera for anyone wanting real photographic control without paying through the nose. Its well balanced combination of image quality, functionality and handling (and not to forget value for money) means the A570 IS just about deserves our highest award.

TZ3

TZ3 seems to suffer the same combo. If you see my hunch was correct. Panasonic are purposely trying to reduce the effect of noise by softening the image. using Venus 3 chroma smearing. I don't know the ins and outs of this, but a layman can get the jist just by reading below. I will happily look at the other 2 tommorow. The shame of all of this is that Leica lens are such an appeal. I tried so hard to buy a Panasonic for that reason, but just could not.


DP Review - Recommend (not highly recommend)


I really liked the TZ1 - as a concept and as a camera to use - and I would have been able to give it a much more wholehearted recommendation had the image quality issues and shutter lag not let it down so badly. The TZ3 is a camera I wanted to like even more; the 28-280mm range is considerably more versatile (you're gaining a lot more at the short end than you're losing at the long end in my opinion), plus it's smaller, faster and even more feature-laden.

So let's get one thing out of the way right away; the image quality has not come on in leaps and bounds; resolution is a bit higher (for those of you that shoot res charts all day), but the output with the default settings looks softer and flatter, and really needs a little post-processing to get the best results. Whether this is a good thing or not depends on your workflow; I'd much rather do a little PP than be stuck with the camera's idea of pleasing output. The new image parameters give you a little more control in-camera, and to my eyes the 'vivid' setting looks a lot like the output from the TZ1.

Otherwise the main issues we worried about with the TZ1 are still here, and they're all related to noise, or more importantly the suppression of it using Panasonic's unmistakable Venus III chroma smearing. The NR effects are very slightly less painful than they were on the TZ1, but we're not talking about a quantum leap here.

On the plus side the TZ3 is an innovative, fast, fun, versatile camera that, especially outdoors in decent light, makes getting great pictures remarkably easy. It's not best suited to snapping the kids running around the house in dim light, but then it is, after all, designed as a travel companion, something it does very well indeed. It is also, at this moment in time, pretty much peerless.

And so then, the TZ3 is another fantastic Panasonic camera with a fantastic lens that struggles to impress if you look at the images too closely because of overblown noise reduction. It's a classic example of a camera that will never do that well in a dpreview test because the output doesn't look great at a pixel level, but that I would happily buy for myself for walkaround snapping.

It's well priced and easy to use, and - as long as you accept that there are always going to be compromises with a camera like this - capable of producing excellent results for normal print sizes or viewing at normal magnifications on-screen. Bearing all this in mind, take a look at the sample gallery to see for yourself if the output quality is acceptable. For us, the performance and feature enhancements are enough to make sure the question marks over the image quality don't deny the TZ3 a Recommended rating.
#34
Lyrrad, thanks a lot for enlightening us here, I've really found your input helpful.

However, I agree with the general consensus that this is a hot deal simply because it's offers an opportunity to buy this camera at a much reduced price than it's generally available. The fact that it's not to some individual tastes (including mine) doesn't take away from that fact. individual expectations determine what people consider to be good. My wife for example is happy with any point and shoot camera that's small and looks 'cool' , photo quality is a distance third so she's on her second Casio Exilim which she absolutely loves, she'll never go for the Fuji.

Most people fit on a sliding scale between my wife and an enthusiast who understands advanced camera settings and appreciates image quality, so for those people happy with average to good pictures, this is fine, but the more discerning will give it a miss.

I'll hold out for the fuji.

Rizza
banned 1 Like #35
I have sent Rizza & macro67 a PM.
#36
I'm looking for a new digital camera for a while now. This FX12 is also on my list; however, out of stock in my local Argos.

Also on my list are: Fuji F20 (F30 is very difficult to find, otherwise, it will make my list too), Fuji Z3, Fuji Z5, Sony Cyber-shot W35, and Canon IXUS 70.

Apart from IXUS 70 (and F30 of course), I can get the other 4 at between 80 to 90 pounds. One thing I really want to know is that what are the differences among F20, Z3 and Z5? And one silly question, from my list, which one you might consider buying it? Really hope someone can help me here! Thanks in advance.
#37
chh33
I'm looking for a new digital camera for a while now. This FX12 is also on my list; however, out of stock in my local Argos.

Also on my list are: Fuji F20 (F30 is very difficult to find, otherwise, it will make my list too), Fuji Z3, Fuji Z5, Sony Cyber-shot W35, and Canon IXUS 70.

Apart from IXUS 70 (and F30 of course), I can get the other 4 at between 80 to 90 pounds. One thing I really want to know is that what are the differences among F20, Z3 and Z5? And one silly question, from my list, which one you might consider buying it? Really hope someone can help me here! Thanks in advance.



Hi,

The IXUS 70 was one of the cameras I used to own before Fuji F30. I have to say that that it does look the part and is a very compact camera. I tend to use my camera at gigs so obviously need a camera that can produce decent pictures in low light. I went to a concert with the IXUS 70 and the pictures were not too good in my opinion, bit too dark and grainy . I sold the Ixus 70 and managed to get the F30 and it was in a completely different league. The pictures in low light were crisp and so much better than anything I had seen before. Yes the camera is more bulky than some others on the market and it only accepts XD cards but the quality of pictures makes up for it.

I would say to you if you are not in a rush to get a camera look out for F30/F31fd on ebay Uk and the fuji refurb shop here.

If you are in a hurry then out of the above cameras I would recommend the F20 because it has the Super CCD sensor which allows the camera to take good photos in low light. You can snap that camera up from the Fuji refurb shop for around £80.
banned#38
Canon 570IS looks on paper an incredible camera for the money, and I would say buy it.

However there is this problem and this applies to Macro67 and others - sorry mate - trying to help but I'm just gathering info

Quote

The biggest drawback to the A570 IS is the long lock-up time after a flash shot. It will lock up for about 10 seconds to recharge the flash. Other cameras, like my SD700 to which I will compare the A570 many times, recycles the flash in a few seconds. I don't use flash often, but if you do, this will drive you crazy.

Flash takes a long time to recycle (recharge) after each shot. This is the weakest point of the A570, so skip it in favor of something like the SD700 or SD800 if you use flash often.

It takes about 10 long seconds, during which the A570 locks up and blinks at you. You have to wait for the flash to recharge before you can do anything else.

If you have the flash off, as I usually do, there's no problem. If you're photographing a kid's party with flash, forget it.


http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/compacts/a570.htm


Following on from where Ken Rockwell is at (some people love him, others hate him) - I personnaly have always found his guides quite good.


The Canon Ixus 950 at first look seems good.
#39
Lyrrad
I have sent Rizza & macro67 a PM.
.

Hi mate, thanks very much for all your help

I searched for the recommendation but they had none left in stock in my area.

I really was soo close to buying a panasonic, don't know why as I know nothing about cameras but just shows that they must have good advertising skills:?

I will keep my eye on this thread and see what other recommendations get flung up

If there is a super dooper pocket size digital camera then I could maybe streatch past the £200 mark but I would obviously have to tell the wife it was cheaper than £200:whistling:

:-D:-D:-D
banned#40
marco67
.

Hi mate, thanks very much for all your help

I searched for the recommendation but they had none left in stock in my area.

I really was soo close to buying a panasonic, don't know why as I know nothing about cameras but just shows that they must have good advertising skills:?

I will keep my eye on this thread and see what other recommendations get flung up

If there is a super dooper pocket size digital camera then I could maybe streatch past the £200 mark but I would obviously have to tell the wife it was cheaper than £200:whistling:

:-D:-D:-D


Ebay have f30 and underwater housing for £240 or f31fd with underwaterhousing for a bit more.

Underwater housing is excellent although you can buy then from Amazon for £90.

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