FS/FT Bulk Sales Rule Changed Again - HotUKDeals
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banned#1
i thought the rules where there for everyone but it seems thats not the case and just as it is in law we can refer back to the thread in hand and say well this one was allowed so mine must be allowed
#2
Not good

Hoping this was just a mistake on Andy's part
banned#3
boothy
Not goodHoping this was just a mistake on Andy's part
even thoght someone quoted the rule :|
#4
boothy
Not goodHoping this was just a mistake on Andy's part

I was told discretion, but I have no problem with Andy so I pmed to this affect.

Though I do hope this thread clarifies the need for the rules. I have no problem with people being given chances, but changing the rules to fit the new user isn't fair on existing or other new users who stick to the rules. Not reading the rules should not be an excuse to unfairly bump other threads and have an advantage of selling more then deemed fit.
[mod]#5
Adam2050


I was told discretion



And this is where the same old problem lies. It roughly translates into one rule for one and one for another. I really don't see the point in having rules if they are not applied across the board.

Hence the ongoing legitimate complaints and the undercurrent of favouritism that people believe in.
#6
just goes to prove that another full time mod along with asb is needed and not mods that just flit in and out of fs/ft.
banned#7
I'll get the other moderators position on this as soon as I can. For the time being, there is no change to the rules re bulk selling, although I would personally have permitted a 1*£20 and 1*£10 sale or a 1*£30 sale.

The thread looks a bit messy however there has been member contact with the mod, so I'll refrain from commenting further other than to reiterate that the rules remain as they were.

Re clothing sales (or similar sales of the same item type). I had anticipated a maximum of 3 live threads with the increase in feedback per thread raised to 20. However the current revised limit has been set at 10. Any thoughts as to the new maximum number of live threads - Is 3 still a suitable figure, or should I raise it a little further to compensate for the limited feedbacks ?
#8
aScottishBloke


Re clothing sales (or similar sales of the same item type). I had anticipated a maximum of 3 live threads with the increase in feedback per thread raised to 20. However the current revised limit has been set at 10. Any thoughts as to the new maximum number of live threads - Is 3 still a suitable figure, or should I raise it a little further to compensate for the limited feedbacks ?


3 is fine,still allows you to have 30 items listed at once over the 3 thread,quite sufficient for private sellers IMO

Any idea on an implementation date?

Edited By: boothy on Jan 20, 2011 21:55
#9
aScottishBloke
I'll get the other moderators position on this as soon as I can. For the time being, there is no change to the rules re bulk selling, although I would personally have permitted a 1*£20 and 1*£10 sale or a 1*£30 sale.The thread looks a bit messy however there has been member contact with the mod, so I'll refrain from commenting further other than to reiterate that the rules remain as they were.Re clothing sales (or similar sales of the same item type). I had anticipated a maximum of 3 live threads with the increase in feedback per thread raised to 20. However the current revised limit has been set at 10. Any thoughts as to the new maximum number of live threads - Is 3 still a suitable figure, or should I raise it a little further to compensate for the limited feedbacks ?

Unfortunately Andy tried to a do a positive thing and now the OP has sold 4 and one without acceptance.
#10
i agree with you guys, now everyone will start selling 3 of each item and quote this thread, lol
1 Like #11
IF open threads are being limited to 3 can bumps be increased to help sell items, 5 may be a fairer number, would keep the reslisting potentially down.
#12
Adam2050
IF open threads are being limited to 3 can bumps be increased to help sell items, 5 may be a fairer number, would keep the reslisting potentially down.



Not really necessary Adam imo as there will be less threads in total anyway,also the clothing sellers will still use the postage loop hole to gain extra bumps
#13
cookiemonster83
Adam2050
Unfortunately Andy tried to a do a positive thing and now the OP has sold 4 and one without acceptance.


No, tomwatts did post in that thread mentioning that phillred has bought 4200 points from him tonight, but has now deleted it. That means that phillred has asked the OP of that thread to hold them till tomorrow, and then gone and bought them from someone else. Cheeky, and against the rules as far as pulling out of an agreed deal anyway.

aScottishBloke
I'll get the other moderators position on this as soon as I can. For the time being, there is no change to the rules re bulk selling, although I would personally have permitted a 1*£20 and 1*£10 sale or a 1*£30 sale.

The thread looks a bit messy however there has been member contact with the mod, so I'll refrain from commenting further other than to reiterate that the rules remain as they were.

Re clothing sales (or similar sales of the same item type). I had anticipated a maximum of 3 live threads with the increase in feedback per thread raised to 20. However the current revised limit has been set at 10. Any thoughts as to the new maximum number of live threads - Is 3 still a suitable figure, or should I raise it a little further to compensate for the limited feedbacks ?


I don't know whether that means ten feedbacks in total (meaning max five items per thread with one feedback each way if all five items were sold individually to different buyers), but even in that case, it allows up to fifteen items at any one time.

All I know is that eeyore013 has listed over 30 different clothing threads in the last two weeks, and it's just not fair. Given that's part of the 65 different threads they've listed in the last two weeks, it's a real abuse of the FS/FT forums- even if it is within the rules. Having that many threads to bump three times within a two week period is unfair to the vast majority who might do 3-5 threads a week if they're really active. Then add on all the other people who have similar patterns and it's no wonder that I'm not keen on bumping my threads these days. Almost invariably, within a few minutes one of these people will have come along, bumped five threads and knocked me straight off the front page.

While I don't think it's a great solution, I think the clothing thing needs to be implemented asap and further reviews should be imminently made about people making massive numbers of threads for single items. I personally feel that eeyore013 should be made to start grouping some of their stuff (toys etc) up into five item threads.




I have NOT deleted anything thank you very much - I can only presume a mod has or something else has otherwise happened - I was obviously unaware of phillred's other involvement/commitments to other sales, and promptly sold him a single 4200 pts code (which I am NOT currently prohibited from selling). This has all got really messy and I'm not sure where I stand - I'm more than happy to help out mods in anyway required, but cannot give a refund as code has already been redeemed =/
#14
Oh, and cookiemonster83 - I second a FS limit per month etc... I know it'd help keep the forums more organised and force people to update threads instead of just creating a new one...
#15
boothy
Adam2050
IF open threads are being limited to 3 can bumps be increased to help sell items, 5 may be a fairer number, would keep the reslisting potentially down.
Not really necessary Adam imo as there will be less threads in total anyway,also the clothing sellers will still use the postage loop hole to gain extra bumps

Unfortunately very true. I hope that can be cleared up before that comes into play.
banned 4 Likes #16
The 10 feedback limit is related to the OP, therefore they can send and receive a max of 10 feedbacks per thread.

I will start this on clothing sales as they tend to be low cost and subject to bulk buying. So whilst it may appear to some that we're restricting sales, we're still offering the members the opportunity to have up to 30 clothing items for sale at any one time.

As for implementation date, I'll amend the rules and post an announcement stating the change within the next 24 hours.
#17
Tomwatts, your not meant to offer people items in other peoples threads, it's called thread hjacking. I know your dealing with ASB, but just thought I'd point that out for the future.
#18
cookiemonster83
tomwatts
I have NOT deleted anything thank you very much - I can only presume a mod has or something else has otherwise happened - I was obviously unaware of phillred's other involvement/commitments to other sales, and promptly sold him a single 4200 pts code (which I am NOT currently prohibited from selling). This has all got really messy and I'm not sure where I stand - I'm more than happy to help out mods in anyway required, but cannot give a refund as code has already been redeemed =/


My apologies if you haven't deleted it, I just hadn't seen much other mod tidying so I presumed it was. My bad. I'm not saying you were prohibited from selling points or anything like that, I just think it was wrong of phillred to go buying from someone else when he had asked this other guy to hold onto them till tomorrow. In no way is that your fault.



Ok, this is definitely going to make me think twice about who to sell to and who not - I've had a bit of trouble regarding BT and postage recently so will probs be accepting paypal only from high feedback for the forseeable future...
#19
aScottishBloke
The 10 feedback limit is related to the OP, therefore they can send and receive a max of 10 feedbacks per thread.I will start this on clothing sales as they tend to be low cost and subject to bulk buying. So whilst it may appear to some that we're restricting sales, we're still offering the members the opportunity to have up to 30 clothing items for sale at any one time.As for implementation date, I'll amend the rules and post an announcement stating the change within the next 24 hours.

Glad to see this is going ahead, there is no restrictions having limitations on clothes as they are more active in general due to the free listing.

Will this then be extended or if needed just be left as it is as clothes only?
1 Like #20
aScottishBloke
The 10 feedback limit is related to the OP, therefore they can send and receive a max of 10 feedbacks per thread.

I will start this on clothing sales as they tend to be low cost and subject to bulk buying. So whilst it may appear to some that we're restricting sales, we're still offering the members the opportunity to have up to 30 clothing items for sale at any one time.

As for implementation date, I'll amend the rules and post an announcement stating the change within the next 24 hours.



Nice one

Can we include kids toys in there as well please?


Will there be anything similar to AV which will stop the creation of more than 3 threads or will it just be up to mods and members to police it?

Edited By: boothy on Jan 20, 2011 22:24
banned#21
boothy
aScottishBloke
The 10 feedback limit is related to the OP, therefore they can send and receive a max of 10 feedbacks per thread.

I will start this on clothing sales as they tend to be low cost and subject to bulk buying. So whilst it may appear to some that we're restricting sales, we're still offering the members the opportunity to have up to 30 clothing items for sale at any one time.

As for implementation date, I'll amend the rules and post an announcement stating the change within the next 24 hours.



Nice one

Can we include kids toys in there as well please?


Will there be anything similar to AV which will stop the creation of more than 3 threads or will it just be up to mods and members to police it?


This may be extended to any type of item, in the future. If a member decides to list a dozen threads with items of a similar nature, I'll be passing a word of advice on in the 1st instance

This will be self regulated for now, with members/mods actioning. I'm not going to ask the development team to impose any restrictions based upon item types. We didn't really want to go down the line of adding any restrictions, so hopefully this compromise is seen as fair for now.

We'll review it all again shortly.


Edited By: aScottishBloke on Jan 20, 2011 22:30
#22
well guys what can i say
sorry if i steped on anyones toes like, like i said my fault i didnt read all the "for sale" ruels 1st and to be honest who reads everything?

im not related to the mod like someone suggested, i emailed him like what was asked and he emailed me back. the reason i opened another thread as the original one was closed so i thought if i opened another listing 2 x 2100 point cards i would be within the rules and i didnt know how to delete the original or i would have done. this thread was then deleted by a mod and original re-opened

as for 4 if you check feedback 2 were sold! that means that i still have one.
the guy that said he was going to buy 2 off me has bought off another trader meaning that mine were no longer needed.

so mabey we should go back to school to do the maths?

anyway think ill stick to ebay now just thought id try this out to save on listing fees etc but obviously ebay is much less hassle

sorry guys
#23
999lofty
well guys what can i saysorry if i steped on anyones toes like, like i said my fault i didnt read all the "for sale" ruels 1st and to be honest who reads everything?im not related to the mod like someone suggested, i emailed him like what was asked and he emailed me back. the reason i opened another thread as the original one was closed so i thought if i opened another listing 2 x 2100 point cards i would be within the rules and i didnt know how to delete the original or i would have done. this thread was then deleted by a mod and original re-openedas for 4 if you check feedback2 were sold! that means that i still have one.the guy that said he was going to buy 2 off me has bought off another trader meaning that mine were no longer needed.so mabey we should go back to school to do the maths?anyway think ill stick to ebay now just thought id try this out to save on listing fees etc but obviously ebay is much less hasslesorry guys

This thread has nothing to do with your personally it has all to do with miss quoting of rules and bad advice.

Never read the related post, but seriously that has to be in jest.

Unfortunately your thread became messy, the moderator should of just let you sell the two and asked you to remove the third, would of saved this massive thread and clarification.

Though if you do sell here again, I would advise you to read the rules so that you don't break them.

This is a great place to sell items so I wouldn't take this to heart.

P.S the maths were based on the acceptance, which once you accept then you are not meant to go back on it without informing anyone, this was not your fault the thread became a mess.
[mod]#24
Glad you brought up the topic of misquoting rules Adam2050.

Your opening post says :-
1.No business / traderlike behaviour. Selling more than two of the same item in a three month period is classed as bulk sales, and is therefore not permitted. Profiteering is not permitted and you must not list items for higher than their RRP.* Vouchers with minimum spend or next to no resale value cannot be sold.


when the actual rules state:-
Selling more than two identical items in a three month period may be classed as bulk sales, and is therefore not permitted. Likewise, significant volumes of the same item type being offered may lead to a trade restriction.


There is a significant difference between what is in your OP and what is in the FS Guidelines

I gave clearance to three itms being sold after discussing with 999lofty how/why he had three of these points cards. I took the decision as I was on duty. I have since spoken with aScottishBloke to seek further clarification and I should have stated that it should have been restricted to 2 buyers, e.g. [email protected] and the other @ 10. But I took the decision in good faith as I felt there was no issue regarding 'trader activity' after PMs between mod and OP.

However, if the rules you are quoting above ^^^ are from fo.lk then that is an issue that clearly needs resolving as the two should be identical
banned#25
tomwatts
Ok, this is definitely going to make me think twice about who to sell to and who not - I've had a bit of trouble regarding BT and postage recently so will probs be accepting paypal only from high feedback for the forseeable future...


Not really an issue for you now. A trading ban has been implemented on your account for the reasons stated here.
#26
Nicely worded.

Yes but I have stated they differ for a while now.

I also agree with the listing of two to one and one to the other but be careful as people will use this to sell more then allowed if mistakes happen.

As the rules state no more then two of the same item. Either this is in place or it isnt .
banned#27
Adam2050
Nicely worded.

Yes but I have stated they differ for a while now.

I also agree with the listing of two to one and one to the other but be careful as people will use this to sell more then allowed if mistakes happen.

As the rules state no more then two of the same item. Either this is in place or it isnt .


We'd try and apply a commonsense approach, perhaps even refining the wording if it helps.

As an example, if you had £50 of homebase vouchers to sell, comprising of 5*£10 vouchers, we'd permit this to be split into 2 sales if required.

If you had 5 consoles of the same type to sell, then that would not be permitted.

I trust the logic is clear enough now, if not - fire away :)
#28
aScottishBloke
Adam2050
Nicely worded.

Yes but I have stated they differ for a while now.

I also agree with the listing of two to one and one to the other but be careful as people will use this to sell more then allowed if mistakes happen.

As the rules state no more then two of the same item. Either this is in place or it isnt .


We'd try and apply a commonsense approach, perhaps even refining the wording if it helps.

As an example, if you had £50 of homebase vouchers to sell, comprising of 5*£10 vouchers, we'd permit this to be split into 2 sales if required.

If you had 5 consoles of the same type to sell, then that would not be permitted.

I trust the logic is clear enough now, if not - fire away :)


Yes but the wording needs to fit this accordingly and moderators informed of this way of doing things
banned 1 Like #29
No, the word NOT is of importance here.
banned#30
I'll try to make it easier.

It would be acceptable and a perfectly normal pattern for you to receive £50 of homebase vouchers as a gift and attempt to trade them here. You wouldn't be penalised for that as you have no control over the denominations of the vouchers that make up the total value.

The above example wouldn't be deemed a job lot, however 5 consoles would. Hopefully the above example helps, if not - I'm sure someone else will provide a better comparison.
#31
They should just shut down fs/ft. Way more trouble than its worth, this forum alone proves why ebay have to charge so much,
banned 1 Like #32
matt3454
They should just shut down fs/ft. Way more trouble than its worth, this forum alone proves why ebay have to charge so much,


It works rather well and as it's free, I don't see any justifiable reasons why the minority should spoil it for the majority.

I'd rather be modding in here than having to deal with personal attacks from a coward under a multi ID or racking up tons of infractions. Do you have anything constructive to add this time ?
banned#33
matt3454
They should just shut down fs/ft. Way more trouble than its worth, this forum alone proves why ebay have to charge so much,

you are in a minority I think. If you dont like it, its easy enough for you to remove the whole sub-forum from your view.
suspended#34
matt3454
They should just shut down fs/ft. Way more trouble than its worth, this forum alone proves why ebay have to charge so much,


That in no way makes sense. Ebay do not have to charge what they do, they do it beacuse they are greedy and it is convienient for people to do away with things they do not need.

Forums like this provide a reasonably safe place to buy and sell things (as long as your careful, with who you buy from and do it in the correct ways)and the best thing is you are not getting stung 15% of the money you sell your item for which in turn allows the seller to sell it cheaper then he/she would on Ebay.

Yes it has its slight problems, but everything has problems and as long as they are improving with each revision. Then at least it is a step in the right direction.

Going back to your comment, I have a question... Is Ebay problem free these days?



Edited By: jonny619447 on Jan 21, 2011 06:47
#35
Ok, so am I right in thinking that people can get away with selling 30 items of clothing, of which some could be the same just in a different size, but I get a full trade ban for selling 2x2100 points cards and a 4200 points card (which are different, different rrp, do a different job) - and with regards to what was said earlier about the misquoting bit - I have never seen the rule regarding 'similar items' - only the one about two identical items...

Surely a ban on me selling MSP would be more reasonable?!?
#36
Oh and I too have clearly been reading the wrong rules then, as the rules I'm going off are these -

1) No business / traderlike behaviour. Selling more than two of the same item in a three month period is classed as bulk sales, and is therefore not permitted. Profiteering is not permitted and you must not list items for higher than their RRP.* Vouchers with minimum spend or next to no resale value cannot be sold.

:(
suspended#37
ASB, I too don't understand the banning of "tomwatts" Could you explain what he has done wrong as it seems a bit harsh, and it might help other people avoid doing the same thing. :)
banned#38
jonny619447
ASB, I too don't understand the banning of "tomwatts" Could you explain what he has done wrong as it seems a bit harsh, and it might help other people avoid doing the same thing. :)

1. selling 3 lots of ms points (agreed by mod), also sold some 2 weeks ago so trader behaviour

2. bumping threads then deleting the comments

3. creating multi-ids

also apparently previously banned on 31/12 from selling msp

http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/wanted-2100-xbox-live-points/838822/#post10250982
2 Likes #39
Which I already received a lengthy ban for - so I've come back reformed having read the rules... And it was jolly nice of the mods to tell me that 4200 are the same as 2100 because last time I checked they were very different...
2 Likes #40
Another chancer banned from FS/FT

A leopard never changes its spots...

Good work mods

Accidental "like" click btw


Edited By: boothy on Jan 21, 2011 09:00

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