FS/FT Guidelines on Delivery - HotUKDeals
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#1
I think it should be up to the individuals. I personally would expect it but then I live very close to a post office. It may put off those more rural people. Or make it that it will be expected unless stated otherwise, a minimum requirement but not compulsary if previously stated. Does that make sense???
banned#2
I think if the seller is happy to do a refund if the item doesnt turn up then thats up to them, i personally wouldnt send anything unless recorded, but many think its a waste of time for small items
#3
I think these guidelines are acceptable. With so many new sellers and buyers to the community (such as myself) it helps reassure just in case you do get someone dodgy.
#4
Hi Col

On the tracking front, I think the relevant parties should agree on whether or not the seller should opt to send the item tracked as ultimately the cost will be passed on to the buyer

I do however think that people should make an effort to get a certificate of posting which in fact protects the seller allowing the seller to claim up to £34 for an item if lost - hence making it more likely that the seller will refund the buyer.
#5
Recorded delivery is a waste of money for items valued at under £36 unless, and it's a big unless, the item is being paid for through PayPal.

It is only Paypal who refuse to accept that a stamped Certificate of Posting is not a valid proof of posting.
Make sure that when you obtain a C.O.P. that you also get a P.O. till receipt for the cost of posting.
Most P.O.'s will give you a pad of COP's if you send a lot of stuff out.

For items over £36 you really need ot be sending them Special Delivery and insured for the correct amount.

The alternative would be to send by Standard Parcels with Enhanced Compensation if need be.

Like Col points out , check the Royal Mail Pricing Made Easy and download the PDF so you have it to hand when giving out a Shipping charge.

Definitely needs to be made clear that it is the sellers responsibility to get the item to the buyer, full stop.
banned#6
certificate for proof of postage is only any good for claiming off RM, for paypal you need a proof of delivery
#7
I disagree with the Guidelines, and think it should be suggested that delivery is agreed upon between the buyer/seller.

Recorded is a waste of time. My postie never gets me to sign for any of my recorded items - which makes me doubt the rest of the countrys posties for recorded delivery. It should be either standard or special/courier IMO.
#8
Royal Mail Recorded is not reliable POD. I used to send out about 20 items a day, and only around 80% of the time would the POD give accurate results (i.e. show a signature).
Most of the time a postie will just drop the item in through the letter box and forget the paperwork.
If the buyer is crafty and finds out that POD has not been made available they could do a Paypal claim (and will win). If selling by Paypal remember they hate you and the only 100% reliable way to make sure you get your money (and can keep it) is by using a premium delivery service (Special, Courier)
#9
highguyuk
I disagree with the Guidelines, and think it should be suggested that delivery is agreed upon between the buyer/seller.

Recorded is a waste of time. My postie never gets me to sign for any of my recorded items - which makes me doubt the rest of the countrys posties for recorded delivery. It should be either standard or special/courier IMO.


MoneySavingG
Royal Mail Recorded is not reliable POD. I used to send out about 20 items a day, and only around 80% of the time would the POD give accurate results (i.e. show a signature).
Most of the time a postie will just drop the item in through the letter box and forget the paperwork.
If the buyer is crafty and finds out that POD has not been made available they could do a Paypal claim (and will win). If selling by Paypal remember they hate you and the only 100% reliable way to make sure you get your money (and can keep it) is by using a premium delivery service (Special, Courier)


Agree with the above pretty much.
Recorded is pretty much pointless all round although I would use it if posting to "dubious" postcodes and of course Paypoo.
#10
highguyuk
I disagree with the Guidelines, and think it should be suggested that delivery is agreed upon between the buyer/seller.


Did you read this part of the OP The method of delivery should be agreed by both parties

It seems that most transactions in the FS Forum use Paypal. If sellers use standard royal mail they will have no protection against a paypal dispute.

Recorded Delivery from my experience has always ended with a signature either way so would be more suitable for paypal transactions than standard post. Of course if sellers don't trust Royal Mail's Recorded Service they should use Special Delivery or an alternative courier.
#11
col;1872080
Did you read this part of the OP The method of delivery should be agreed by both parties

It seems that most transactions in the FS Forum use Paypal. If sellers use standard royal mail they will have no protection against a paypal dispute.

I did read that part thankyou. I see it like the BBC - hopefully you'll see where I'm taking this. They aren't meant to suggest a product or service. You hear often on the radio if a brand is mentioned that "other brands are available". If you start suggested a certain way of posting, I think your just opening yourself up (as admin/mods) to more problems. They could quite easily follow the delivery guidelines (as well as the FT/FS Guidelines) yet have no signature at the end of transaction to prove receipt, the buyer make a claim and win and come back and start saying "well I followed the guidelines - your responsible for my loss".

It's a bit early, and I'm not entirely sure if that all makes sence but I hope you get the gist...
#12
It might be worth including that courier services can be used for postage and that Paypal accept them for claim purposes as long as they are trackable, meaning that people are not tied in to the Royal Mail to send items.

It may also be wise to include that regardless of the postage method used, unless both parties (i.e seller and buyer) are both confirmed and verified, in the case of a claim, Paypal will do very little and the chances of successfully claiming are heavily reduced.
#13
highguyuk
I did read that part thankyou. I see it like the BBC - hopefully you'll see where I'm taking this. They aren't meant to suggest a product or service. You hear often on the radio if a brand is mentioned that "other brands are available". If you start suggested a certain way of posting, I think your just opening yourself up (as admin/mods) to more problems. They could quite easily follow the delivery guidelines (as well as the FT/FS Guidelines) yet have no signature at the end of transaction to prove receipt, the buyer make a claim and win and come back and start saying "well I followed the guidelines - your responsible for my loss".

It's a bit early, and I'm not entirely sure if that all makes sence but I hope you get the gist...

To be honest that's near on the point I was trying to make although mainly in the other thread running on shipping at the moment.

The minute HUKD start putting guidelines on posting is the minute HUKD will start getting complaints like "well you advised using recorded" etc etc.

Whilst your experience of recorded is good Col I can assure you others is not so. Not only is it a bit of a Postcode lottery but you only need one bad apple in a sorting or delivery office and there is a problem.

You could say well then the guidleline will always be to use Special Delivery but you know as well as I thats not feasible.

There are many instances also of grey areas in Post Office liabilites. International Signed For as an example tells you at first glance that the item is delivered and a ssignature obtained when sending items abroad. However look closely at the small print, if you can find it, and you will see that not only is the signature not guaranteed depending on the third party deliverer but in some countries it's not guaranteed at all although the P/O will not stop you buying the service or indeed tell you it's not applicable.

Recorded Delivery to me is one of the P/O's biggest "con's" You pay 72p for a service which in effect gives you no more than the FREE C.O.P. for items valued up to £36.
The signature, if they get one, can be anyone'sand it comes with the normal postie. That is probably the reason why it has problems because it is labour intensive for the postie who just wants to get the round finished, not be knocking on doors and waiting for a sig.

.Anyway that's enough from me other than to suggest that all HUKD morally need to do is guide people to the relevant Royal Mail Posting Made Easy page and the current prce chart.

Obviously only my opinion. :)
#14
You could say well then the guidleline will always be to use Special Delivery but you know as well as I thats not feasible.


Unless people are willing to send items via insured and secure methods, IMHO they deserve whatever they get (in regards to broken / damaged items in the post, those going lost in the post, or people telling them that the item has not turned up when in fact it has). All this rubbish about its up to the buyer and seller to agree is codswallop as it is legally the sellers responsibility to make sure that the buyer gets the goods.

Recorded Delivery to me is one of the P/O's biggest "con's" You pay 72p for a service which in effect gives you no more than the FREE C.O.P.


What Recorded Delivery does however is tell your buyer that the item has been tracked and a signature will be recorded against the delivery (regardless of how effective this is). This in itself is deterrent enough to the would be scammer as they are less likely to claim lack of delivery. Also, in my experiences it is easier to claim against a lost or damaged item if sent recorded delivery and also in my experiences, less items are lost in the post compared to first class mail. I have had 2 problems with recorded mail in the last 5 years, 14 problems with mail sent via non recorded means in the 12 months before that. The figures speak for themselves in my particular circumstances.
#15
Simon_G
Unless people are willing to send items via insured and secure methods, IMHO they deserve whatever they get (in regards to broken / damaged items in the post, those going lost in the post, or people telling them that the item has not turned up when in fact it has). All this rubbish about its up to the buyer and seller to agree is codswallop as it is legally the sellers responsibility to make sure that the buyer gets the goods.

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"]Simon I don't know why you insist on quoting me and then writing something different under my quote but I would please ask you to stop. :x

If you care to take a look at my Post 6 above you will see I have already agreed in the main with your points[/SIZE][/COLOR].

What Recorded Delivery does however is tell your buyer that the item has been tracked and a signature will be recorded against the delivery (regardless of how effective this is). This in itself is deterrent enough to the would be scammer as they are less likely to claim lack of delivery. Also, in my experiences it is easier to claim against a lost or damaged item if sent recorded delivery and also in my experiences, less items are lost in the post compared to first class mail. I have had 2 problems with recorded mail in the last 5 years, 14 problems with mail sent via non recorded means in the 12 months before that. The figures speak for themselves in my particular circumstances.


[COLOR="blue"]Recorded Delivery is NOT a trackable service. You are able to use the R/M's Track and Trace facility to allow you to see when the package has been delivered and a signature obtained but it is not Trackable.
In fact the information only appears after the event has passed.

The rest of what you have written is supposition and personal experience which is fine as long as it is recognised as that. I already wrote that in my experience Recorded deliveries are a postcode lottery and I stand by that. If you want some sort of reference check out the various forums on Ebay, MSE and the like that deal with Royal Mail.

[COLOR="Black"]
I have had 2 problems with recorded mail in the last 5 years, 14 problems with mail sent via non recorded means in the 12 months before that. The figures speak for themselves in my particular circumstances
[/COLOR]
Sorry but I don't understand what your figures mean ?

As for easier to claim I don't have experience of that because I have never had a claim refused or indeed a claim amount reduced.

Lastly it musn't be forgotten that all HUKD FS/FT transactions should be private ones and not business. Businesses have different legal obligations and as far as I'm aware HUKD doesn't allow business deals on the FS/FT forum. [/COLOR]

My last post on this subject because I don't want to cause more friction or make things personal. (Which is why I stopped on the other thread)
Simon if you wantt to continue with our personal discussion then please PM me and I'll happily reply to you. Thanks :)
#16
sassie;1870757
I think if the seller is happy to do a refund if the item doesnt turn up then thats up to them, i personally wouldnt send anything unless recorded, but many think its a waste of time for small items


I'm much the same, while it does cost a bit more and I have sometimes lost out on it as I end up undercharging the person but on the other hand I think it's worth it as it means I have some idea where the item went and have some come back if there's any issues.

John

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