FS/FT rule on selling in regards RRP's - HotUKDeals
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banned#1
probably, i guess it would depend what mod you get. i have been a lurker for a bit and some of the rules i see are very different compared to other forums i post on
banned#2
Feedback Mayne :)
#3
been there done that........

there's no point mate, you just got to put up with it

or you could use the 'contact us' button :roll:
banned#4
phatboy123
been there done that........

there's no point mate, you just got to put up with it

or you could use the 'contact us' button :roll:


has that been fixed yet? :whistling:
#5
I myself, and others have sold "wii sports" the game, this obviously comes free with the wii but i bought it and the sold it again on here and no one said anything. Then there was a 360 game on here that was thread locked as it came free with a console.
#6
I can't sell a promo copy of a 360 game on here despite buying it off here in the first place.

I don't see why they would enforce such rule, a promo is still a legit item
#7
What also makes me lol is, its an RRP RECOMMENDED. A store can sell for much higher than the RRP.
banned#8
RRP in this sense is not always the recommended retail price advised by the manufacturer, it's more akin to the lowest selling price by a major retailer - as explained in the quoted rule below.

The OP's example of a classic car would more than likely be referenced against the book price. However like the Natwest Piggy Bank collectables, we don't see too much of that here. There are target audiences elsewhere which may serve sellers better in this scenario.

(10) You must NOT list items for sale at higher than the recommended retail price. The marker of RRP will be determined by cross indexing with Amazon or other well known retailer. Profiteering is NOT permitted and this includes items previously found at a lower price in the 'Deals' or ANY forum here.
* Vouchers available as non transferable or with next to no resale value, such as 0.001p for example and generally available free items etc. must NOT be offered for sale or trade.
#9
i used to have a few sets of the wade pigs they get over priced but rarely really sell much over £150-175
banned#10
thfc andyp3;5986677
I can't sell a promo copy of a 360 game on here despite buying it off here in the first place.

I don't see why they would enforce such rule, a promo is still a legit item


Sorry. 2 wrongs don't make a right. It very much depends on the term 'promo'. If it's a free copy handed out for games review/favour then we would not allow that. By default the standard terms and conditions relating to products of this nature expressly prohibit the resale of such items.

If you refer to a game bundled as a promotional offer, say with a console/accessory, then these can be resold - but only as a complete bundle. Again this allows an rrp comparison to be reached. e.g. wireless entertainment pack for the xbox; wireless controller and bundle copy of lego/kung fu panda would be allowed, however the games would not be allowed on it's own.

No doubt the controllers are sold individually, unlike the games, they are not marked as bundle controllers, hence the reason for sales being allowed to progress.
#11
aScottishBloke

The OP's example of a classic car would more than likely be referenced against the book price. However like the Natwest Piggy Bank collectables, we don't see too much of that here. There are target audiences elsewhere which may serve sellers better in this scenario.



TBH that's a massive kop-out.

From what i've seen mods pick and chose what to lock and what not to lock.
There is no hard and fast rule from what i've seen.

If an item is promotional what is the harm in selling it even though it does not have an RRP.

What is the harm in selling something that you have received for free? I dont see how selling something you received for free or came free as part of deal in which you received it free?

I don't see how it can be construed as profiteering as its not like you are touting a festival ticket at twice the price or buying reduced in a recent deal then selling on at near retail.

By the same rules seemingly put into play on here it is 100% against the rules to sell anything you have sold as a gift as you didn't pay for it, therefore you are "making" money on its sale. Same with anything promotional or items recieved as part as an offer... i.e buy a wii get wii sports free etc etc.
Hell even autographs are worthless on this site according to the rules. Football shirt autographed by George best/Pele/insert famous footballer here... worth no more than the shirt.

The profiteering rule is sound and i agree with it, HOWEVER MODs need to start using appropriate discretion and only lock the actual profiteering threads.

Selling a sack boy that you more than likely received free? Why not if someone wants to buy it? its not exactly as if its being sold ABOVE retail price because it is promotional.

MODs really need to get together get a thread in their forums and get some sodding consistency. It's not on to see a thread closed for profiteering when you see a thread for a similar item/gained through a similar method being allowed all fine.

Sort it out.
#12
aScottishBloke

Sorry. 2 wrongs don't make a right. It very much depends on the term 'promo'. If it's a free copy handed out for games review/favour then we would not allow that. By default the standard terms and conditions relating to products of this nature expressly prohibit the resale of such items.

If you refer to a game bundled as a promotional offer, say with a console/accessory, then these can be resold - but only as a complete bundle. Again this allows an rrp comparison to be reached. e.g. wireless entertainment pack for the xbox; wireless controller and bundle copy of lego/kung fu panda would be allowed, however the games would not be allowed on it's own.

No doubt the controllers are sold individually, unlike the games, they are not marked as bundle controllers, hence the reason for sales being allowed to progress.


You will also find that a lot of game shops including the likes of GAME sell the games labled Bundle and promo copies in their 2nd hand/pre owned sections. Surely thus making these items legitimate to sell on here?
#13
Spammed, reported and asked why this isn't in feedback?
If this is not for feedback, what is feedback for?
#14
I agree with jetpac
#15
ilovepink
I agree with jetpac


Thankyou.
It's one of the things that annoys me most about this place.
banned#16
aScottishBloke

Sorry. 2 wrongs don't make a right. It very much depends on the term 'promo'. If it's a free copy handed out for games review/favour then we would not allow that. By default the standard terms and conditions relating to products of this nature expressly prohibit the resale of such items.

If you refer to a game bundled as a promotional offer, say with a console/accessory, then these can be resold - but only as a complete bundle. Again this allows an rrp comparison to be reached. e.g. wireless entertainment pack for the xbox; wireless controller and bundle copy of lego/kung fu panda would be allowed, however the games would not be allowed on it's own.

No doubt the controllers are sold individually, unlike the games, they are not marked as bundle controllers, hence the reason for sales being allowed to progress.


actully iv seen plenty of promo ps3/360 games go on here for sale, and its went amiss, :whistling:
#17
dont see why its a problem tbh, something is only worth what someone will pay, the bay is a great example of that lots of identical stuff goes for different prices

also if its for sale somewhere else cheaper people will let the seller know and then they can adjust their price if they want to, really dont see a need for the rule imho
#18
ilovepink;5988794
dont see why its a problem tbh, something is only worth what someone will pay, the bay is a great example of that lots of identical stuff goes for different prices

also if its for sale somewhere else cheaper people will let the seller know and then they can adjust their price if they want to, really dont see a need for the rule imho

Do you think if HUKD charged a fee for what was for sale they wouldnt care what was sold.:roll:
#19
t0mm
Do you think if HUKD charged a fee for what was for sale they wouldnt care what was sold.:roll:


what does that matter in this case?
#20
Jetpac;5988970
what does that matter in this case?

Just the fact that 95% of them rules wouldnt exist if you had to pay to use the FS/Ft.
banned#21
t0mm
Just the fact that 95% of them rules wouldnt exist if you had to pay to use the FS/Ft.


mods/admin will be getitng ideas now lol :w00t:
#22
lets face it some of the rules and restrictions are silly.
essentially everything here is a classified add, no different from what you find on Gumtree,

Granted there are some rules which are fair and are there to protect both sides of a sale and to stop business like behaviour etc.. fair enough.

But if I want to buy a promotional item off of someone for a tenner on here.. why cant I?
[mod]#23
Even with fees, postage etc etc.............i still get more on eBay than i ever could here.
#24
i prefer to sell here as its generally easier and quicker + more of a community, but mods make it hard to do that a lot of the time.
#25
Jetpac;5989196
i prefer to sell here as its generally easier and quicker + more of a community, but mods make it hard to do that a lot of the time.

same i prefer to sell here, its easier quicker, and no one is making money out of me or the other party.
Thus i dont mind making a little less money.

However, i have legitimately bought promo stuff on here THEN the rules changed to that you cant. Furthermore, i do agree that especially promo stuff should be allowed as it is only worth what someone will pay. Also i have sold a bundle copy of indy on 360 but just the disc to help out someone's kid who had snapped theirs. Although the disc doesnt say bundle copy on it!

The promo/bundle games i think should be fine to be sold and compared to the normal version of the game.
#26
awoodhall2003
same i prefer to sell here, its easier quicker, and no one is making money out of me or the other party.
Thus i dont mind making a little less money.

However, i have legitimately bought promo stuff on here THEN the rules changed to that you cant. Furthermore, i do agree that especially promo stuff should be allowed as it is only worth what someone will pay. Also i have sold a bundle copy of indy on 360 but just the disc to help out someone's kid who had snapped theirs. Although the disc doesnt say bundle copy on it!

The promo/bundle games i think should be fine to be sold and compared to the normal version of the game.


Any promotional item should be fine
The problem is with the view that anything received free (promotional or otherwise) cannot be sold as it as seen as profiteering when that point of view is just wrong.

You also arent allowed to sell things like xbox gamertags... why not? because it breaks the xbox terms of service.. big deal. the only person that is going lose out is the buyer if by the one in a minuscule number they get caught.. and even then they knew the risks when buying it. so its up to them to make an adult decision on whether to take that risk.

there are no legal ramifications for HUKD so why are things like that restricted? Some kind of Sudo power trip for mods and rule makers??
#27
Jetpac;5989397
Any promotional item should be fine
The problem is with the view that anything received free (promotional or otherwise) cannot be sold as it as seen as profiteering when that point of view is just wrong.

You also arent allowed to sell things like xbox gamertags... why not? because it breaks the xbox terms of service.. big deal. the only person that is going lose out is the buyer if by the one in a minuscule number they get caught.. and even then they knew the risks when buying it. so its up to them to make an [COLOR=Red]adult decision[/COLOR] on whether to take that risk.

there are no legal ramifications for HUKD so why are things like that restricted? Some kind of Sudo power trip for mods and rule makers??


remember kids can trade on here!

i agree with stopping sale of things that break contracts though. :thumbsup:
#28
awoodhall2003
remember kids can trade on here!


I was aware of that. But its still an adult decision whether to take the risk or not :P
#29
Jetpac;5989625
I was aware of that. But its still an adult decision whether to take the risk or not :P

and if the mods here let sales go through when they know theyre breaking legal contracts then there can be ramifications for HUKDs thus why they stop it.
#30
awoodhall2003
and if the mods here let sales go through when they know theyre breaking legal contracts then there can be ramifications for HUKDs thus why they stop it.


HUKD are not breaking any legal contracts as they are not the owners of the items in question, the consequences in the ridiculously low (tends to zero) chances that there are any would rest upon the shoulders of the seller and possibly the buyer.

Hell the sale of modded consoles are allowed and that is heavily against Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony T+Cs....
#31
Jetpac
Any promotional item should be fine
The problem is with the view that anything received free (promotional or otherwise) cannot be sold as it as seen as profiteering when that point of view is just wrong.

You also arent allowed to sell things like xbox gamertags... why not? because it breaks the xbox terms of service.. big deal. the only person that is going lose out is the buyer if by the one in a minuscule number they get caught.. and even then they knew the risks when buying it. so its up to them to make an adult decision on whether to take that risk.

there are no legal ramifications for HUKD so why are things like that restricted? Some kind of Sudo power trip for mods and rule makers??


I have come to the understanding that the mods don't actually feel FS/FT is needed and don't want to mod with lapse rules.
#32
Jetpac;5989701
HUKD are not breaking any legal contracts as they are not the owners of the items in question, the consequences in the ridiculously low (tends to zero) chances that there are any would rest upon the shoulders of the seller and possibly the buyer.


agreed, but from a legal/moral standpoint HUKDs have decided to take the upper ground and thus not allow people to break legal contracts themselves with HUKDs being the medium the deal was done on.
#33
awoodhall2003
agreed, but from a legal/moral standpoint HUKDs have decided to take the upper ground and thus not allow people to break legal contracts themselves with HUKDs being the medium the deal was done on.


i edited my above post so this was not noted:

Hell the sale of modded consoles are allowed and that is heavily against Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony T+Cs.... also the tools to do it with.

have there been any legal issues for being a conduit of selling copyright infringing tools and systems?

Technically the current way of moderating the FS/FT forum is completely indefensible due to lack of consistency, some silly rules and in several cases over the top moderating . It just needs sorting out. I dont care which way it goes (obbviously i have my own ideas of what should be allowed) but it needs to become consistant.
#34
Jetpac;5989805
i edited my above post so this was not noted:

Hell the sale of modded consoles are allowed and that is heavily against Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony T+Cs.... also the tools to do it with.

have there been any legal issues for being a conduit of selling copyright infringing tools and systems?

Technically the current way of moderating the FS/FT forum is completely indefensible due to lack of consistency, some silly rules and in several cases over the top moderating . It just needs sorting out. I dont care which way it goes (obbviously i have my own ideas of what should be allowed) but it needs to become consistant.


nah microsoft might not condone modifying consoles, but its allowed, just it breaks any warranty you might have.
Although of course copyright infringement is not allowed, and they do not allow, but modding consoles can be used for other purposes ie. the original xbox makes a create streaming unit for the living room :thumbsup:
Modifying a wii to play homebrew, although can be used for illegal purposes.

Its all a grey area, and all the time legitmate reasons can be found for it the sales id imagine would be allowed to continue on HUKDs.

on your latter point, i agree, sometimes ti does seem a bit inconsistent, but usually im sure there is a good reason.
#35
awoodhall2003
nah microsoft might not condone modifying consoles, but its allowed, just it breaks any warranty you might have.
Although of course copyright infringement is not allowed, and they do not allow, but modding consoles can be used for other purposes ie. the original xbox makes a create streaming unit for the living room :thumbsup:
Modifying a wii to play homebrew, although can be used for illegal purposes.

Its all a grey area, and all the time legitmate reasons can be found for it the sales id imagine would be allowed to continue on HUKDs.


Its not a grey area at all, it is strictly against the T+Cs of the companies along with invalidating you warranty.

Hence the reason they can ban the console from going onto xbox live..
By similar HUKD standards these should be banned aswell. Which also leads me onto DS flash carts... TTDS,R4,Acecard Etc... also plenty of legit reasons for using these.. yet banned from sale..
#36
The FS/FT forum truly amazes me and I don't know why the mods/admin don't exploit it more. Here you have a community who effectively self manage the auctions but the mods put in ridiculous rules about re-listing and number of bumps.

They allow the constant drivel in misc to be bumped all over the place, costing them a great deal in bandwidth. Here they have something that could really improve the site but they choose to limit it.

Just look at avforums, the trading on there is huge and it creates a great deal of traffic to the site which in turn will create revenue through clicks.
#37
chester123
The FS/FT forum truly amazes me and I don't know why the mods/admin don't exploit it more. Here you have a community who effectively self manage the auctions but the mods put in ridiculous rules about re-listing and number of bumps.

They allow the constant drivel in misc to be bumped all over the place, costing them a great deal in bandwidth. Here they have something that could really improve the site but they choose to limit it.

Just look at avforums, the trading on there is huge and it creates a great deal of traffic to the site which in turn will create revenue through clicks.


I second that :-D
#38
Jetpac;5989886
Its not a grey area at all, it is strictly against the T+Cs of the companies along with invalidating you warranty.

Hence the reason they can ban the console from going onto xbox live..
By similar HUKD standards these should be banned aswell. Which also leads me onto DS flash carts... TTDS,R4,Acecard Etc... also plenty of legit reasons for using these.. yet banned from sale..

t+cs only for support, you own the console not the rights to use the consoles like software, thus you can do what you want to it surely. r4 cards and the alike i thought were banned due to a lot of fakes being flooded, and the reason that they are actually imitating a game to play a game or something similar (to do with defintion anyways) to that.


chester123;5990015
The FS/FT forum truly amazes me and I don't know why the mods/admin don't exploit it more. Here you have a community who effectively self manage the auctions but the mods put in ridiculous rules about re-listing and number of bumps.

They allow the constant drivel in misc to be bumped all over the place, costing them a great deal in bandwidth. Here they have something that could really improve the site but they choose to limit it.

Just look at avforums, the trading on there is huge and it creates a great deal of traffic to the site which in turn will create revenue through clicks.


AVForums does seem to have a good system, and a good support system if anything goes wrong unlike the admin/mods who dont do much if something goes wrong on HUKDs.

Problem is that DEALS will always be their main concern and the misc CAN be linked in regards to these deals later on etc. But also misc is meant for drivel, although might use up bandwidth, id imagine it hardly touches their limits to be honest.
#39
awoodhall2003
t+cs only for support, you own the console not the rights to use the consoles like software, thus you can do what you want to it surely. r4 cards and the alike i thought were banned due to a lot of fakes being flooded, and the reason that they are actually imitating a game to play a game or something similar (to do with defintion anyways) to that.




AVForums does seem to have a good system, and a good support system if anything goes wrong unlike the admin/mods who dont do much if something goes wrong on HUKDs.

Problem is that DEALS will always be their main concern and the misc CAN be linked in regards to these deals later on etc. But also misc is meant for drivel, although might use up bandwidth, id imagine it hardly touches their limits to be honest.


The number of posts in misc, dwarfs that to the rest of the site.

The site is about deals and how it makes its revenue is through affiliated clicks, the increase in traffic would create more people viewing the deals and in turn greater click throughs.

A wasted opportunity if you ask me.
#40
chester123;5990158
The number of posts in misc, dwarfs that to the rest of the site.

The site is about deals and how it makes its revenue is through affiliated clicks, the increase in traffic would create more people viewing the deals and in turn greater click throughs.

A wasted opportunity if you ask me.

how? because everyone who sits on misc for hours on end, i bet checks the deals very often as well...thus creating revenue!

i know im not a big misc guy, but sometimes ive come on just to see whats going on in misc, but i will always check the deals section as well.

although you can say the same about FS/FT, if this was left to run itself (more or less) then i bet others would stop using it due to people abusing the system and thus not wanting to sell on here, like they do now.

Personally i think they could close FS/FT and would only lose maybe 5% of their current revenue, due to people still and originally coming to the site for Deals.

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