FS/FT - What's Going On With Postage - HotUKDeals
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#1
thought you had to quote a DELIVERED price for each item?
#2
whenever i sell my price always includes delivery.
#3
barky
thought you had to quote a DELIVERED price for each item?

Doesn't seem to be inforced at the moment, don't see why each mod takes a different view on this.
#4
although I would prefer to see posage detaildin the op or a delivered price I've no real problem with the terms postage to be added or arranged as surely it's all part of the negotiation process.
#5
ants97
although I would prefer to see postage detail in the op or a delivered price I've no real problem with the terms postage to be added or arranged as surely it's all part of the negotiation process.

When you got a thread with xx amount of items, it becomes a bump thread, and these would come under no.7 in the Fo.Lk rulings as unnecessary bump, the OP's usually come out with a reply straight away with postage included, so why is it a problem for the OP to put in the 'allocated' area at the beginning of a thread. If the OP only asks for collection only and then changes her/his mind then surely that is acceptable. But these threads usually are from people active in the forum and are a great method to offer or suggest 'lower' prices and to invite replies giving the thread more movement via the bump system. This would be no problem if the FS/FT forum wasn't so reliant on the bumping system.
#6
Adam2050
ants97
although I would prefer to see postage detail in the op or a delivered price I've no real problem with the terms postage to be added or arranged as surely it's all part of the negotiation process.


When you got a thread with xx amount of items, it becomes a bump thread, and these would come under no.7 in the Fo.Lk rulings as unnecessary bump, the OP's usually come out with a reply straight away with postage included, so why is it a problem for the OP to put in the 'allocated' area at the beginning of a thread. If the OP only asks for collection only and then changes her/his mind then surely that is acceptable. But these threads usually are from people active in the forum and are a great method to offer or suggest 'lower' prices and to invite replies giving the thread more movement via the bump system. This would be no problem if the FS/FT forum wasn't so reliant on the bumping system.


even in the large threads which will become more common with the 3 thread limit I don't see it as a problem as the buyer and seller surely must be allowed to negotiate postage and have it not be counted as a bump. As long as some sort of reference is made in the op be it a defined price with postage or a defined price with provisions for postage to be made I can't see how any negotiation would or should be deemed as an unnecessary bump.

There are already enough restrictions regarding what can and cannot be classed as unnecessary bumps without more being imposed on what I see as a valid part of the negotiaion process.
#7
ants97
Adam2050
ants97
although I would prefer to see postage detail in the op or a delivered price I've no real problem with the terms postage to be added or arranged as surely it's all part of the negotiation process.
When you got a thread with xx amount of items, it becomes a bump thread, and these would come under no.7 in the Fo.Lk rulings as unnecessary bump, the OP's usually come out with a reply straight away with postage included, so why is it a problem for the OP to put in the 'allocated' area at the beginning of a thread. If the OP only asks for collection only and then changes her/his mind then surely that is acceptable. But these threads usually are from people active in the forum and are a great method to offer or suggest 'lower' prices and to invite replies giving the thread more movement via the bump system. This would be no problem if the FS/FT forum wasn't so reliant on the bumping system.
even in the large threads which will become more common with the 3 thread limit I don't see it as a problem as the buyer and seller surely must be allowed to negotiate postage and have it not be counted as a bump. As long as some sort of reference is made in the op be it a defined price with postage or a defined price with provisions for postage to be made I can't see how any negotiation would or should be deemed as an unnecessary bump.There are already enough restrictions regarding what can and cannot be classed as unnecessary bumps without more being imposed on what I see as a valid part of the negotiaion process.

No one said negotians can't talk place, but clearly knowing a price on how much something costs to post should be in the op, what tends to happen in these threads is person A comes in and states there interest, price is given then person A disapears. If seller had stated the price in the first place person could of made a desicion without bumping the thread, and the seller has stated the price so why could that not of been given in the OP. Surely the only need for a reply in this sense is when the buyer is trying to buy multiple items. The rule change I'm after or clarification is not for the fact of creating more rules to cause more restriction but is because it's unfair that some threads should be bumped more for something that could of been avoided, and I agree with you that more rules isn't a good thing. But I don't deem it fair that one person has to state the price for postage and others do not.
#8
Much easier if seller states price delivered and what method of delivery (1st, 2nd, signed courier etc). Would definately cause less bumping.
#10

Sorry Boothy totally didn't see it as a problem a couple of weeks back don't think I noticed it till Christmas period, and all the longstanding members posting in this way. Really annoying as the majority of people have the decency to post.
#12

Looks bad I bought from there just now, but not a lot I can do but put in my view and leave it to change.
#13
Boothy heres one for you, everyone of this persons listing follows this pattern over a 600 threads.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/fs-3-x-julia-donaldson-books-author/844797
#14
ASB any thoughts please?
#15
boothy
ASB any thoughts please?

Another one, also nothing currently added to the OP here

Nothing wrong with listing items at postage costs singular and then if asked for multi items. Drop your prices.
#16
Another offender same problem again.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/fs-various-womens-mens-kids-clothin/845233

Seems to be a running theme. Never seem to be a problem with anything other then clothes and household items.

Edited By: Adam2050 on Jan 06, 2011 12:17
#17
Adam2050
Another offender same problem again.


http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/fs-various-womens-mens-kids-clothin/845233


Seems to be a running theme. Never seem to be a problem with anything other then clothes and household items.



Are you hinting that this could be a job for the phantom kids clothes spammer Adam?
#18
boothy
Adam2050
Another offender same problem again.[url=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/fs-various-womens-mens-kids-clothin/845233Seems to be a running theme. Never seem to be a problem with anything other then clothes and household items.
Are you hinting that this could be a job for the phantom kids clothes spammer Adam?

No but I'm sure if she/he knows she/he will.

It's just a bit sad to see that people can't add, one member just offers you a selection on one item in the post, why not just add the same thing to the Opening post.
#19
Its clearly a loophole that is now being abused to the extent that it needs closing

A simple addition to the rules that all prices must include delivery would cut out all this nonsense in one fail swoop

Edited By: boothy on Jan 06, 2011 15:29
#20
#21

Even worse is they needed two threads that could of been done in one.

Here
#22
Adam2050


Even worse is they needed two threads that could of been done in one.

Here



And bumping thread by late pic addition
#23
boothy
Adam2050
Even worse is they needed two threads that could of been done in one.Here
And bumping thread by late pic addition

Another one now following each other.

Part one Awaiting part 2. Seriously this needs to be stopped and really if the items are the same type why cannot not be posted in one large thread instead?
banned#24
I agree about this topic

But the big question is will anything be done about it.......
#25
[email protected] after the wedge intervened


Thanks Andy btw
http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/fs-another-large-sort-out-a-bit-of-/845687



Edited By: boothy on Jan 06, 2011 22:20
#26
excellent now postage negotiations count as bumps.

while you guys are at it why not have all wanted threads specify the exact item thats wanted (right down to model number) and the exact price the op is prepared to pay.
#27
ants97
excellent now postage negotiations count as bumps.

while you guys are at it why not have all wanted threads specify the exact item thats wanted (right down to model number) and the exact price the op is prepared to pay.


Good idea ants,will suggest it on your behalf

Edited By: boothy on Jan 06, 2011 22:27
#28
boothy
ants97
excellent now postage negotiations count as bumps.

while you guys are at it why not have all wanted threads specify the exact item thats wanted (right down to model number) and the exact price the op is prepared to pay.


Good idea ants,will suggest it on your behalf


Thanks for a second there before the edit I thought you were going to take all the credit.

anyway I get that you guys (myself included) don't like the tatty clothes (business like) sellers but by the 2 of you going after them by creating this non existent problem (3 or so people agreed in a month) just create more problems than its worth.

stick to getting the number of active threads reduced which has almost universal and high numbers of support. this is just a waste of time.
#29
Ants97 just because you don't agree to have to belittle it.

Simple thing is it's only the clothes sellers and household sellers who create these massive bump based threads and the other threads suffer. You don't have to agree with but you can't argue when they get a lot of uneeded bumps.

Why is so difficult to post a number when they reply straight away with it. Anyway circles.

Mods only intervine when there is so many bumps in these threads, but why not just make it a simple rule and then no need for bumps everyone knows where they stand.
#30
Adam2050
Ants97 just because you don't agree to have to belittle it.

Simple thing is it's only the clothes sellers and household sellers who create these massive bump based threads and the other threads suffer. You don't have to agree with but you can't argue when they get a lot of uneeded bumps.

Why is so difficult to post a number when they reply straight away with it. Anyway circles.

Mods only intervine when there is so many bumps in these threads, but why not just make it a simple rule and then no need for bumps everyone knows where they stand.


I'll skip over the belittling thing as I don't know what you mean.

Whose to say it is an uneeded bump? I see it as part of the negotiation process as long as what is happening with postage is mentioned ie adding at cost in the op, even better if a cost is given but not 100% necessary.

Whats the difference in someone asking for the price of the item or combined items delivered to someone on a different thread with postage via royal mail 1st class recorded asking whats their price if they send it 2nd class recorded? does that also constitute an uneeded bump?

It just creates more work and confusion where it wasn't needed.
#31
ants97
Adam2050
Ants97 just because you don't agree to have to belittle it.Simple thing is it's only the clothes sellers and household sellers who create these massive bump based threads and the other threads suffer. You don't have to agree with but you can't argue when they get a lot of uneeded bumps.Why is so difficult to post a number when they reply straight away with it. Anyway circles.Mods only intervine when there is so many bumps in these threads, but why not just make it a simple rule and then no need for bumps everyone knows where they stand.
I'll skip over the belittling thing as I don't know what you mean.Whose to say it is an uneeded bump? I see it as part of the negotiation process as long as what is happening with postage is mentioned ie adding at cost in the op, even better if a cost is given but not 100% necessary.Whats the difference in someone asking for the price of the item or combined items delivered to someone on a different thread with postage via royal mail 1st class recorded asking whats their price if they send it 2nd class recorded? does that also constitute an uneeded bump?It just creates more work and confusion where it wasn't needed.

Are you including posts where there is one item? As that is now the new theme on here. It matters because it sometimes and quite often on the bigger threads it happens. People use it to create interest as the price is usually lower.

Okay swing it round what would you call it when someone posts a thread item say postage to be arranged, when that postage is added in the response the item comes to a total that you don't accept. Why is then left out of the OP? The postage isn't going to change regardless of where someone is in the country? Can you at least see the point? Not asking you to agree, but it's not asking for them to stop trading, just asking them to post it in OP.

Just the same with pictures now it's changed into mods discretion, though with bigger items and 0 feedback people it's made into a need to continue trade, why not have the same rule through out, no one's getting any advantage and everyone knows the score.

Belitting was the comment towards the need for sarcasm, but it's just your thing :D
#32
ants97
Adam2050
Ants97 just because you don't agree to have to belittle it.

Simple thing is it's only the clothes sellers and household sellers who create these massive bump based threads and the other threads suffer. You don't have to agree with but you can't argue when they get a lot of uneeded bumps.

Why is so difficult to post a number when they reply straight away with it. Anyway circles.

Mods only intervine when there is so many bumps in these threads, but why not just make it a simple rule and then no need for bumps everyone knows where they stand.


I'll skip over the belittling thing as I don't know what you mean.

Whose to say it is an uneeded bump? I see it as part of the negotiation process as long as what is happening with postage is mentioned ie adding at cost in the op, even better if a cost is given but not 100% necessary.

Whats the difference in someone asking for the price of the item or combined items delivered to someone on a different thread with postage via royal mail 1st class recorded asking whats their price if they send it 2nd class recorded? does that also constitute an uneeded bump?

It just creates more work and confusion where it wasn't needed.


/\ This.

The only way you'll get a thread that consists of

*Listing
*Pics
*Offer
*Acceptance

is if all negotation/questions are dealt with via PM (like some other sites do). They don't want that to happen on here, so you've got to expect posts in threads.

People sell clothes on there, and if listing a load in one go I too would probably list them all, then add postage costs later (done it in the past myself). When you have kids you don't have time to sit down, take photos and weigh everything all in one go, so have to do it bit by bit.

When I first joined this site many years ago, FS/FT was for getting rid of old stuff that you no longer wanted (such as outgrown clothes etc).... funny how that's now the thing people are objecting against.
#33
midlandscomics
ants97
Adam2050
Ants97 just because you don't agree to have to belittle it.Simple thing is it's only the clothes sellers and household sellers who create these massive bump based threads and the other threads suffer. You don't have to agree with but you can't argue when they get a lot of uneeded bumps.Why is so difficult to post a number when they reply straight away with it. Anyway circles.Mods only intervine when there is so many bumps in these threads, but why not just make it a simple rule and then no need for bumps everyone knows where they stand.
I'll skip over the belittling thing as I don't know what you mean.Whose to say it is an uneeded bump? I see it as part of the negotiation process as long as what is happening with postage is mentioned ie adding at cost in the op, even better if a cost is given but not 100% necessary.Whats the difference in someone asking for the price of the item or combined items delivered to someone on a different thread with postage via royal mail 1st class recorded asking whats their price if they send it 2nd class recorded? does that also constitute an uneeded bump?It just creates more work and confusion where it wasn't needed.
/\ This. The only way you'll get a thread that consists of *Listing*Pics*Offer*Acceptanceis if all negotation/questions are dealt with via PM (like some other sites do). They don't want that to happen on here, so you've got to expect posts in threads. People sell clothes on there, and if listing a load in one go I too would probably list them all, then add postage costs later (done it in the past myself). When you have kids you don't have time to sit down, take photos and weigh everything all in one go, so have to do it bit by bit.When I first joined this site many years ago, FS/FT was for getting rid of old stuff that you no longer wanted (such as outgrown clothes etc).... funny how that's now the thing people are objecting against.

That's not what is happening though, the examples above the Poster replies straight away with the set price. There is usually minumn time between the poster asking and the seller responding. You can't really state the examples ain't got time to list at once as they can quite clearly take time to respond and list all the items in the first place.

Either way a mod response either way would be great.
banned#34
We'll have to have a think about this. There is a specific section when listing in the trading forums for shipping/payment instructions. I wouldn't think it to be unreasonable if postage charges were identified up front with concessions given for bulk buys.

How much this would reduce the 'problem' I'm not sure yet., I'm still waiting on confirmation of the feedback issue related to a max of 5 per thread before implementing the "no more than 3 live threads for the same item type" amendment to the trading rules.

In my view, sellers should also dictate the courier and method of delivery. There's been a few issues where buyers have requested lesser options than the OP might have considered, only for the issue to rear it's head later on, with specific regards to damaged goods and compensation levels. It's the buyers responsibility to ensure goods arrive and that they are protected, so really apart from bulk sales, I don't see the need for much negotiation.
#35
aScottishBloke
We'll have to have a think about this. There is a specific section when listing in the trading forums for shipping/payment instructions. I wouldn't think it to be unreasonable if postage charges were identified up front with concessions given for bulk buys.How much this would reduce the 'problem' I'm not sure yet., I'm still waiting on confirmation of the feedback issue related to a max of 5 per thread before implementing the "no more than 3 live threads for the same item type" amendment to the trading rules.In my view, sellers should also dictate the courier and method of delivery. There's been a few issues where buyers have requested lesser options than the OP might have considered, only for the issue to rear it's head later on, with specific regards to damaged goods and compensation levels. It's the buyers responsibility to ensure goods arrive and that they are protected, so really apart from bulk sales, I don't see the need for much negotiation.

Even with bulk sales why not let the OP state (reduced postage cost for bulk item's) seems pretty simple as there the main offenders on this. Not after a reduction in number of these sellers just a level playing field.

Two sellers tonight, one copying the other started a PART 1 and PART 2 thread, when neither needed to be seperate so hopefully your thread limit will be considered by the other mods also.

FS/FT has outgrown the current listing protocols.
#36
asb there isn't much of a "problem" here at all it's just a couple of users have got a bee in their bonnet about the admittedly annoying clothes sellers (good to see the live threads thing is still on the agenda) and are creating problems that in reality don't exist.

I would be extremely doubtful if their were any more or less "unessesary posts" in a large thread that had postage to be added and a large thread that had postage stipulated yet still had the usual level of organic negotiation about price and delivery cost.

On the last point yes sellers should ensure the the goods arrive etc but those cases are just about bad sellers poorly packaging the goods and shouldn't any rule regarding postage wouldn't have made them pack their goos any better.
#37
ants97
asb there isn't much of a "problem" here at all it's just a couple of users have got a bee in their bonnet about the admittedly annoying clothes sellers (good to see the live threads thing is still on the agenda) and are creating problems that in reality don't exist.I would be extremely doubtful if their were any more or less "unessesary posts" in a large thread that had postage to be added and a large thread that had postage stipulated yet still had the usual level of organic negotiation about price and delivery cost.On the last point yes sellers should ensure the the goods arrive etc but those cases are just about bad sellers poorly packaging the goods and shouldn't any rule regarding postage wouldn't have made them pack their goos any better.

Again nothing to do with Clothes, as you can see not all our clothes threads, there just the main offenders, if a person selling games did the same thing that would be in here also, but ain't seen a while, if you notice the posts it's also the same few sellers who do it over and over again. I couldn't care if they were selling vouchers/clothes/electronics etc, just that the ruling be fair and just.
#38
http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/fs-another-large-sort-out-a-bit-of-/845687

and this is were the confusion starts, andywedge wants postage to be added yet thread closed here with no mention of adding postage to op

http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/random-for-sale-clearout-toys-star-/845122
#39
ants97
http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/fs-another-large-sort-out-a-bit-of-/845687and this is were the confusion starts, andywedge wants postage to be added yet thread closed here with no mention of adding postage to ophttp://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/random-for-sale-clearout-toys-star-/845122

First one yep was mods discretion, but quite clearly would of been easier for OP to add prices inclusive of postage (bundled cheaper) - not difficult but i'm sure the excuse of no time could come into it (pages don't time out on listing so this is not really an excuse, maybe on ebay but not here)

Second was a clear violation of bump rules. OP knows the rules on reserving posts at opening and I'm sure she has been informed various times about it (not first offence) Guessing the games were edited after the opening post and then the need to respond to 'what are the games' Plus I'm unsure why they couldn't be listed in OP. I'm sure the excuse about time could be used again. I know people make mistakes but she could of recitfied at anytime and didn't.

Again that was another post with ADD POSTAGE AT COST. (NOTE NOT CLOTHES, still think it should be again posting postage prices)

[Simple rule taken from AVforums - sorry for the comparison. - All ads must state if the price includes postage or not. If your post does not specify whether on not postage is included it will be assumed that your asking price includes delivery]



Edited By: Adam2050 on Jan 07, 2011 00:35: .
#40
Adam2050


[Simple rule taken from AVforums - sorry for the comparison. - All ads must state if the price includes postage or not. If your post does not specify whether on not postage is included it will be assumed that your asking price includes delivery]




That's not saying that you have to add postage costs in the opening post though, just that you have to state if postage is included or not. If you don't specify, it presumed that postage is included. You could quite easily put 'excludes postage' in the opening post.

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