help with a sale issue please admin/ mods - HotUKDeals
We use cookie files to improve site functionality and personalisation. By continuing to use HUKD, you accept our cookie and privacy policy.
Get the HUKD app free at Google Play

Search Error

An error occurred when searching, please try again!

Login / Sign UpSubmit

All Comments

(50) Jump to unreadPost a comment
Comments/page:
Page:
banned#1
i hate to say this mike, but until the buyer receives they are your responsibility, you really need to refund the buyer
#2
Even though postage method adequately covers it?
If this is the case then can I at least wait until RM do something about it, thi is not my fault and feel like some one is taking the proverbial, for all I know the buyer could have received the games and just be trying to pull a fast one!

Mike..
#3
This is why you should always send recorded at the very least.
banned#4
MikeBeaver
Even though postage method adequately covers it?
If this is the case then can I at least wait until RM do something about it, thi is not my fault and feel like some one is taking the proverbial, for all I know the buyer could have received the games and just be trying to pull a fast one!

Mike..


mike the chance you as the seller takes when you send something unrecorded, you will never really know if it arrived, you have to take the word of the buyer. If this person had paid through paypal we wouldnt even be having this discussion. Although many believe its 50/50 i think its the sellers responsibility if something doesnt arrive, if you purchased something from hmv and it never arrived would you be happy to woait around for them to claim off rm? no you wouldnt be happy about it, if you are a decent guy you will refund the buyer and await your refund
#5
you have to refund - its you that has the case against rm and your responsibility, sorry but rm has lost a few thing that were supposed to come to me and it is the sellers responsibility, I paid in all good faith but never got my goods, the seller has to chase up the goods
#6
sassie
mike the chance you as the seller takes when you send something unrecorded, you will never really know if it arrived, you have to take the word of the buyer. If this person had paid through paypal we wouldnt even be having this discussion. Although many believe its 50/50 i think its the sellers responsibility if something doesnt arrive, if you purchased something from hmv and it never arrived would you be happy to woait around for them to claim off rm? no you wouldnt be happy about it, if you are a decent guy you will refund the buyer and await your refund


have to agree with this, only costs 70p more to post recorded, but thats covered at least and signature is available. sorry!
#7
Recorded was not requested, so recorded was not used, I will contact RM again tomorrow.

Mike..
banned#8
MikeBeaver
Recorded was not requested, so recorded was not used, I will contact RM again tomorrow.

Mike..


it is up to you to get the item to the seller, not he sellet to get the itme to themselves, it really doesnt matter how it was sent, it never got there and you shouldnt be holding on to money that doesnt belong to you
#9
sassie
it is up to you to get the item to the seller, not he sellet to get the itme to themselves, it really doesnt matter how it was sent, it never got there and you shouldnt be holding on to money that doesnt belong to you



bit unfortunate but thats the way the cookie crumbles - never rely on RM normal post
#10
Rest of his refund will be done this week when I have moved some money in to my PP account to send it.
What about postage costs?

Mike..
#11
How can you keep 1/2 the money when the customer didn't received the goods? You should always protect yourself by sending it recorded and include the cost in your overall cost.

Put yourself in the buyers' position
banned#12
MikeBeaver
Rest of his refund will be done this week when I have moved some money in to my PP account to send it.
What about postage costs?

Mike..


what you expect the buyer to pay the postage of something they never received - lol
#13
sassie
what you expect the buyer to pay the postage of something they never received - lol


A royal Mail claim will NOT cover the postage spent on it, so either way looks like I am screwed.
I expect them to be a little understanding, I have spent my money and lost my games in this debacle, if I refund all then I lose more than I stood to gain!
banned#14
MikeBeaver
A royal Mail claim will NOT cover the postage spent on it, so either way looks like I am screwed.


yes it will, they charged you for a service they never provided, a bit like you did to the buyer - lol
#15
sassie
yes it will, they charged you for a service they never provided, a bit like you did to the buyer - lol


Well this is what I found about it

"Royal Mail does not refund postage in the case of loss or damage to most items. The only exception for this is Special Delivery where the fee will be refunded in the case of loss - but not for damage."

So looks like they wont.
2 Likes #16
From CAB.....

The goods are lost or damaged

When you buy goods from a business trader, it is the responsibility of the trader if the goods are lost or damaged before delivery. You don't have to buy extra postal insurance to protect your goods against loss or damage before delivery.

When you buy goods from a private seller, you may not be able to make a claim against them if the goods are damaged or lost before delivery. However, if the seller has offered you postal insurance and you have accepted, they will be expected to make a claim on the insurance on your behalf.


So it can be seen quite clearly that if insurance is offered but not taken, it's actually the BUYERS loss in a private sale. Don't know if it's actually relevant in this case, but just thought i'd correct a few misconceptions on who's legally responsible:thumbsup:
banned#17
MikeBeaver
Well this is what I found about it

"Royal Mail does not refund postage in the case of loss or damage to most items. The only exception for this is Special Delivery where the fee will be refunded in the case of loss - but not for damage."

So looks like they wont.


i think you will find if you fight it they will, they cannot charge you for a service they didnt provide
#18
Shengis
From CAB.....



So it can be seen quite clearly that if insurance is offered but not taken, it's actually the BUYERS loss in a private sale. Don't know if it's actually relevant in this case, but just thought i'd correct a few misconceptions on who's legally responsible:thumbsup:


Well, that is an interesting view on things, from a different perspective, thank you Shengis.

I had opened this thread for some advice on what to do, not an ear bashing, 'specially from some people.

Mike..
banned#19
mike im surprised you think my post is an ear bashing, i speak to you in the same honest way i speak to others, would you see it as an ear bashing if you where the buyer, come on
#20
sassie
mike im surprised you think my post is an ear bashing, i speak to you in the same honest way i speak to others, would you see it as an ear bashing if you where the buyer, come on


Did I name names? I don't think I would be that petty, just wanted advice, not telling off, that's all.
banned#21
MikeBeaver
Did I name names? I don't think I would be that petty, just wanted advice, not telling off, that's all.


telling off - lol,
you make me sound like your mum now - lol

I am sure you will do what you think is right, you asked fo advice, and i gave my advice, although as you know ive nver been one to butter it up:oops:
1 Like #22
Shengis is right and it's something some of us have been trying to get over for a long time.

A private seller is different to a business seller with regard the law on lost post.

Recorded delivery is not worth the 70p IF the value of the goods is below £36 or if the transaction is taking place through Paypal.

If you are using Paypal Recorded delivery is a minimum for any value.

If you are using normal payment then a C.O.P. is fine for good up to £36. Get a Post Office Receipt as well though.

Anything over £36 in value needs to go Special Delivery or some other insured method and in the case of Paypal that must be a trackable method.

C.O.P's will not be recognised by Paypal.

If you are the seller and your buyer informs you of non delivery then you should fill in the appropriate claim forms and send off to the P.O.
Inform the buyer that the P.O. will be contacting them and asking them to verify.

In the case of a private seller you should make sure you are happy that your buyer will fill in any P.O. forms before you refund them.

Whilst the P.O. does not refund postage I would point out that you need to replace those items lost. Find out the cost through a local retailer or online and use that as a reference. (Think about the value of the items the P.O. has lost !!!!)

I've probably forgotten something but that's the basics.
Bottom line is it's up to te seller to check he's covering himself and likewise the buyer when it comes to postage of private goods.
1 Like #23
Have to say im with mike on this one and refunding half seemed the perfect solution.

Mike chose not to send recorded and the buyer chose not to request recorded. Either way the option was available to both - either mike insisting to send recorded or buyer insisting to be sent recorded and with no party enforcing it, an equal split seems fair

either way hope it gets sorted - i have RM lose things as well - right pain it is
#24
It just strikes me as odd, seeing as I have now sent off two claim forms and had nothing back from RM at all, don't know if the buyer has filled in his forms at the other end or not? As I say, I will get in contact with them tomorrow and see what they are saying about the who farce, and maybe I will think about using recorded for everything in future that is going to people I don't know.

Mike..
banned#25
people knock recorded dleivery, but at least ther eis no doubt to whether the item arrived or not, if i purchased something and it didnt arrive i would expect all my money back and as a seller i would also send all monies back if item didnt arrive, although i would always send recorded and funnily enough they very rairly go missing, about as rare as one going missing without recorded except a few hundred then say they havent received when they have


good luck in getting your dosh back, and sorry if my posts came across abrupt
#26
guv
To be honest, this PO rule wasnt something I knew, so hats off to Shengis for that.

I think its a case of people applying stupid ebay/paypal rules and thinking thats defacto.

I certainly think its fair that if a buyer is offered insurance by using recorded delivery or spl delivery at cost, but declines (because they are being tight!!!!!!), then why should the seller suffer. Thats my take on it anyway - and seems to be supported by RM.

The other point about this also..... if a full refund is paid, but then the post office investigate and that distintive package is remembered by the postman as being delivered, what then? Its very easy to claim things havent arrived (when they have) and probably happens very frequently by rogues who basically want to steal things from honest people.

When Ive sent stuff to people I dont know and just sent with a receipt of postage, I always put distinctive markings on the package..... for the very reason described above. Luckily Ive never had any problems - but its there... just in case!!!


The problem is people, quite understandably, thinking that business and private post is the same but it's not and never has been.

As regards fraud and missing post as I've said before I very much doubt if the percentage of GENUINE missing post is very high at all.
Scammy buyers nowadays know how to work the system, hence all the Paypal scams with untracked postage.

Your last paragraph is really relevant I think. There are other ways of trying to endure your post gets there safely. A little bit if imagination will help ;-)
#27
sassie

good luck in getting your dosh back, and sorry if my posts came across abrupt


Tht's OK Sassie, I still love you :) x x x
#28
sassie
people knock recorded dleivery, but at least ther eis no doubt to whether the item arrived or not, if i purchased something and it didnt arrive i would expect all my money back and as a seller i would also send all monies back if item didnt arrive, although i would always send recorded and funnily enough they very rairly go missing, about as rare as one going missing without recorded except a few hundred then say they havent received when they have


good luck in getting your dosh back, and sorry if my posts came across abrupt


I accept you are right on the second bit of your post sassie but the first bit just isn't true , unfortunately. It should be true but it's not.
It's all down to a bit of a postcode lottery, staffing levels, lazy or bent posties. The Post office is well aware of this, they have all the figures.
Recorded delivery does not guarantee anything other than a confirmation of delivery. The postie themselves can sort that little problem out should they so wish. It's also non trackable.

This post reads like all posties are bent or lazy and that's not the case. The problem is as with any crime statistic in a certain area, it only needs one or two to be bent and the crime figures will escalate to look like they are out of control.

One bad apple and all that ! Most Postmen do a great job and out local ones are exceptional.
#29
MikeBeaver
Tht's OK Sassie, I still love you :) x x x


We all love sassie !
banned#30
where the hell did i even mention posties, i was actually referring to buyers
#31
sassie
where the hell did i even mention posties, i was actually referring to buyers


eh ?
banned#32
i never mentioned posties, i was eferring to people saying their stuff hadnt turned up when the majority of the time it probably had, they can hardly say this if its sent recorded

i think i best now shut thy gob as me getting all confused what im talking about let alone you
#33
yeah sorry sassie I see now. What I was trying to put across is that recorded delivery is not foolproof by any means.
It's a real pain to be able to sort out what's right and wrong when it comes to sending valuable items and the Post Office do nothing to help.

What p's me off is they spout about Recorded Delivery being safe etc etc when in actual fact it's not and you are just as likely to get issues with recorded delivery as you are with unrecorded.
Oh yeah and they take 70 odd pence for it !!

No disrespect to you :)
#34
Not that this helps Mike or anyone else out for that matter, but if it was me I would refund the entire payment back to the buyer, just like I would expect them to do the same if it was me who did not get the package. If the buyer is genuine then why should they lost out on something they have not received?

Regardless of what the buyer wants (I have said it before and I will say it again) sending items regardless of value via signed for delivery (not necessarily trackable) mans that the possibility of the receiver pulling a fast one by saying that the package did not arrive are limited if not eradicated. Not saying that it happened in this instance, but I would understand if Mike had a bad taste in his mouth from the possible thought that the buyer may be pulling a fast one. Of course if an item is sent via signed for methods and doesn't meet its destination, all thoughts turn to the carrier with the buyer being exempt from all blame. This could happen with any postage method, but for the sake of 70p a lot of the problems being seen here and in other posts could be removed and reasons for failure of delivery can be narrowed down somewhat.

As a rule I always post vie recorded / special or courier delivery, adding the price into the cost of the item or postage regardless of what the buyer wants and up until this point I have not had any problems as such. In fact the difference in sending something first class normal or second class recorded is 20 or 30p on low value items making recorded delivery a no brainer. Personally, I'd rather lose 70p on a recorded delivery slip than the possibility of the full buying price of the items (plus the initial cost of the items themselves) as looks like it has or will be happening in this case.

I feel for you Mike and hope you are successful in claiming your money back, but think there may be a lesson or two to be learn't from this experience.
#35
I sent a phone for repair some years back it was free post going to philips i only had proof of postage which did not cost any extra and it got lost i called the number on the POP and was ask the for three prices for a replace the phone which was £50 but the max i got was £30 10 time the cost of a stamp or some thing like that. lesson learned
#36
SAmjones;1935559
I sent a phone for repair some years back it was free post going to philips i only had proof of postage which did not cost any extra and it got lost i called the number on the POP and was ask the for three prices for a replace the phone which was £50 but the max i got was £30 10 time the cost of a stamp or some thing like that. lesson learned


Welcome to HUKD SAmjones!
#37
mike, hope you get a result from RM. I have had items go missing several times with them, these were recorded delivery which caused me a lot of problems (one was an application to university for which i missed the deadline!).
I still have a letter from the sorting office which states my letter was delivered but they had no signature proof (so much for recorded delivery) Only the letter delivered by the postman and he recollects it. I got a £2.20 refund!
Ive now learnt a lot of letters and mobile cashback forms went back special delivery, other stuff recorded. anything unimportant under £34 is sent with C.O.P as mentioned by a poster earlier.
Good luck and keep us posted :)
Hope i didnt come across as rude earlier ;)
#38
One thing though, did the buyer pay by paypal? I'm guessing they did by the fact your refunding that way, in which case they could easily open a dispute and as soon as they find out you did'nt send recorded, paypal will refund them anyway. Trade or not.
banned#39
Absolutely no doubt MikeBeaver should refund in full.

1. He cannot verify the buyer received the items, the onus being on the seller to provide proof.
2. After the item is declared 'lost' the OP will receive a refund if they can answer all questions and provide proof of ownership, postage, etc as per the claim form. The buyer should not have to wait any longer for a refund as the OP should be fully covered.
3. If payment was by PayPal, then the buyer is being very generous by not raising a PayPal claim (although don't know if this has elapsed, and if so the repercutions).
4. The OP has in the past been quite happy to transfer the risk to sellers, i.e. post 1st, pay later, so a bit of goodwill/understanding/common sense is required here and as such OP should refund.
5. Unsure about earlier comments re CAB advice posted by Shengis. It appears you didn't offer insurance by your reply, so go ahead and refund in full. I'm not even sure you could be considered a private seller either regarding your eBay naru'd account. Your volume of Lumines sales could be considered as trading should someone decide to investigate further or have it in for you.
6. Always keep yourself covered, you decided as a seller that Proof of Postage was enough to compensate YOU, in the event of non delivery.
7. Put it down to experience and learn.

Just my opinion as requested. ;)
#40
Mike,

I have had a situation happen just like this on this forum, it was an xbox 360 game. I sent off the claim form to RM and had to wait 6 weeks to get a reply from them, apparently 4 weeks is the average so they told me when I called them. However they did refund the whole amount I claimed for. I kept in constant contact with the person who had bought the game from me and refunded him as soon as I received the cheque from RM. He was happy with this arrangement as he had only wanted to pay for 1st class delivery even though I had offered him Recorded, positive feedback was left by both parties. As long as the lines of communication are kept open, I don't see a problem.

Post a Comment

You don't need an account to leave a comment. Just enter your email address. We'll keep it private.

...OR log in with your social account

...OR comment using your social account

Thanks for your comment! Keep it up!
We just need to have a quick look and it will be live soon.
The community is happy to hear your opinion! Keep contributing!