Lowering individual vote temps - HotUKDeals
We use cookie files to improve site functionality and personalisation. By continuing to use HotUKDeals, you accept our cookie and privacy policy.
Get the HotUKDeals app free at Google Play

Search Error

An error occurred when searching, please try again!

Login / Sign UpSubmit

All Comments

(275) Jump to unreadPost a comment
Comments/page:
Page:
banned 82 Likes #1
I approve this message. Hot deals should be hot deals, not the usual crap from the usual suspects.
20 Likes #2
Long overdue methinks
2 Likes #3
Sounds a good idea to me
banned 2 Likes #4
Fair enough
1 Like #5
Sounds interesting yeah.
17 Likes #6
Voted hot !!!
2 Likes #7
'bout time.
#8
Sounds good :)
6 Likes #9
Admin
We'll be lowering the vote temp slightly for individual member votes and deals. The temperature for each deal is dynamically calculated based on several variables but obviously the biggest one is the effect of a member vote. Each member has their own voting power based on their historical interaction on HUKD and deals they've found.

As the site gets bigger and more members vote there is "inflation" in the deal temp as it becomes easier for a deal to become hotter. We play with the hot deal tipping point but also with member vote influence to deflate this from time to time. Right now I think there are too many deals getting hot so we are going to tweak that down a bit (i.e. there's already 5 pages of hot deals today and really we know there aren't that many truly hot deals in a day).

Anyways, this is just a heads up to let you all know :)


Of course today may not be indicative of a typical day due to the fact that more people may have been online because of the Public Holiday. Have you been monitoring activity over a given time period (not just within the last fortnight when we have had a couple of weeks with three working days)? Have more (hot) votes been cast in the last 24 hours than any other day of the week?

The high number of deals reaching "hot" may also mean the threshold for this status is set too low. Perhaps you could consider a sliding threshold. In a day when more deals are listed the temperature level where a deal becomes "hot" increases then falls again as deals expire so you are restricting the total quantity of "hot" deals in relation to the number of recently listed (or total active) deals.

Also, some of the deals in the first five pages have been active for longer than 24 hours; some were "slow-burners" to reach their "hot" status.

BFN,

fp.
21 Likes #10
Hope this doesn't bring to an end the weekly 2000 degree orange San Francisco deals ;)
suspended#11
Thank you.
[admin] 2 Likes #12
@fanpages - Some good questions there. (1) Yep we are creeping up all the time in terms of number of votes given to deals. Basically more members are voting when compared to the past. The 5 pages was just an example. (2) We do move the threshold up from time to time also but that's a losing game as eventually (if the site keeps growing) a normal deal could be 1000 degrees - I'd rather try to keep a mentally hot ballpark temp. (3) I think dynamically moving the hot threshold would devalue the idea of a hot deal - you could have one day with 10 genuinely hot deals or a day with 1 genuinely hot deal. I'd like the hot tab to reflect that.
9 Likes #13
Sounds good. Maybe you can bring something in to help with the issue of members voting cold without providing any reason, i.e. the item can be found cheaper elsewhere or the retailer is not trustworthy.
As much as deals getting to hot too easily is a problem, surely people voting cold based on not liking something or not being of interest to them isn't helping anyone as I'm sure most people's first impression will be the deal temp.
Admittedly it might simply be that my 'deals' aren't deals and cheaper for the same item can be found elsewhere.
27 Likes #14
vibeone
I approve this message. Hot deals should be hot deals, not the usual crap from the usual suspects.

+1

I can think of a couple of members who post every item on Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and Sainsburys shelves + every ancient £2.99 dvd they can find who will be crying themselves to sleep tonight (with any luck lol)

Might encourage them to post only truly HOT deals and not just average supermarket stuff thats on offer every other week and stop them thinking there is a competition for the person who can place the most naff "deals"

Edited By: jase.2 on May 02, 2011 22:59
#15
Keep up the good work guys.
suspended 2 Likes #16
jase.2
vibeone
I approve this message. Hot deals should be hot deals, not the usual crap from the usual suspects.

+1

I can think of a couple of members who post every item on Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and Sainsburys shelves + every ancient £2.99 dvd they can find who will be crying themselves to sleep tonight (with any luck lol)

Might encourage them to post only truly HOT deals and not just average supermarket stuff thats on offer every other week and stop them thinking there is a competition for the person who can place the most naff "deals"
Couldn't agree more! they know who they are.
[admin] 4 Likes #17
@jase.2 - I don't know if this will entirely address that actually. I find a lot of people vote those deals hot b/c they are 'no-brainers'. People naturally want to vote but they don't want to vote wrong. So if they see a *cheaper* (not necessarily a hot deal) DVD they hit hot vote pretty quickly. Items that take a bit more work to understand if it's a good price or not have a harder time getting votes as most members won't research the price to double check. I think a lot of that comes down to writing a good description of why it's a deal. That's what I'm trying to think more about now.
2 Likes #18
Delicious
Sounds good. Maybe you can bring something in to help with the issue of members voting cold without providing any reason, i.e. the item can be found cheaper elsewhere or the retailer is not trustworthy.
As much as deals getting to hot too easily is a problem, surely people voting cold based on not liking something or not being of interest to them isn't helping anyone as I'm sure most people's first impression will be the deal temp.
Admittedly it might simply be that my 'deals' aren't deals and cheaper for the same item can be found elsewhere.


I think the cold voting issue has been talked over enough and that the consensus is that if it is genuinely a hot deal the few cold votes (which you normally only notice when first posted) will be counteracted by the majority voting hot.
10 Likes #19
I, for one, welcome our new temperature moderation overlords.

;)
7 Likes #20
Admin
@fanpages - Some good questions there. (1) Yep we are creeping up all the time in terms of number of votes given to deals. Basically more members are voting when compared to the past. The 5 pages was just an example. (2) We do move the threshold up from time to time also but that's a losing game as eventually (if the site keeps growing) a normal deal could be 1000 degrees - I'd rather try to keep a mentally hot ballpark temp. (3) I think dynamically moving the hot threshold would devalue the idea of a hot deal - you could have one day with 10 genuinely hot deals or a day with 1 genuinely hot deal. I'd like the hot tab to reflect that.


Thanks.

If I understand what you are trying to achieve now, I think you are saying that the quantity of "hot" votes must be taken into account in proportion to the total number of votes cast, or the notion of comparing deals over a week, a month, or a year, is flawed.

You cannot compare a deal from 12 months ago to one listed today as a year ago only 10 members may have voted positively, & now it may take 100 members to vote a deal "up" in temperature, in order for the deal to be "hot".

You also cannot dynamically change the individual voting temperature quantities because you cannot foresee the quantity of members that will vote on a certain deal, but to lower voting temperature units per member based on the number of (new, or non-expired) deals listed at any given moment would be a fairer system; not for the member listing the deal, but for the individual product or service to gain visibility amongst the other deals at that time.

That said, just because one member contributes more to the site (in terms of posts/deals or whatever criteria is chosen) than another member does that mean their viewpoint on what constitutes a "hot" deal is any more 'valid'? That is, why not give every member equal voting rights of one unit per vote?

Why was the system of increased units of voting for 'established' members introduced? Do members need "rewarding" in this manner for their contributions to the site?

BFN,

fp.
3 Likes #21
GAVINLEWISHUKD
I think the cold voting issue has been talked over enough and that the consensus is that if it is genuinely a hot deal the few cold votes (which you normally only notice when first posted) will be counteracted by the majority voting hot.


That would be true if every member was allocated a single voting unit of temperature; but that is not the case.

7 or 8 members with limited voting "rights" may think a deal is "hot" & vote positively, but a single negative vote from an "established" member can effectively cancel out those already cast in a single vote.

BFN,

fp.
#22
sits69
I, for one, welcome our new temperature moderation overlords.

;)


Lol, a fan of El Reg?
#23
bring on the new batch of thermometers. ;)
#24
Is there a limit to how hot any deal gets?
If not why the change?
Secondly if I vote cold why does it go hotter?
Thirdly why do some get 1 but others get 11 HIGHER?
Just so confusing.
Keep it short & simple guys !!!!!
[Moderator]#25
sounds a good idea :)
[admin] 2 Likes #26
sowotsdis
Is there a limit to how hot any deal gets?


Not in the code but in perception I think yes. As for your second question, that could be others voting hot in the meantime.

@fanpages - I think it makes sense that people who find hot deals have more influence than those who do not as it indicates they have a good nose for what is good or not. It's not a perfect system but I do think it is better than a standard vote per person regardless of their history.
1 Like #27
fanpages
Admin
@fanpages - Some good questions there. (1) Yep we are creeping up all the time in terms of number of votes given to deals. Basically more members are voting when compared to the past. The 5 pages was just an example. (2) We do move the threshold up from time to time also but that's a losing game as eventually (if the site keeps growing) a normal deal could be 1000 degrees - I'd rather try to keep a mentally hot ballpark temp. (3) I think dynamically moving the hot threshold would devalue the idea of a hot deal - you could have one day with 10 genuinely hot deals or a day with 1 genuinely hot deal. I'd like the hot tab to reflect that.


Thanks.

If I understand what you are trying to achieve now, I think you are saying that the quantity of "hot" votes must be taken into account in proportion to the total number of votes cast, or the notion of comparing deals over a week, a month, or a year, is flawed.

You cannot compare a deal from 12 months ago to one listed today as a year ago only 10 members may have voted positively, & now it may take 100 members to vote a deal "up" in temperature, in order for the deal to be "hot".

You also cannot dynamically change the individual voting temperature quantities because you cannot foresee the quantity of members that will vote on a certain deal, but to lower voting temperature units per member based on the number of (new, or non-expired) deals listed at any given moment would be a fairer system; not for the member listing the deal, but for the individual product or service to gain visibility amongst the other deals at that time.

That said, just because one member contributes more to the site (in terms of posts/deals or whatever criteria is chosen) than another member does that mean their viewpoint on what constitutes a "hot" deal is any more 'valid'? That is, why not give every member equal voting rights of one unit per vote?

Why was the system of increased units of voting for 'established' members introduced? Do members need "rewarding" in this manner for their contributions to the site?

BFN,

fp.


But your asking why do we need these goalposts!? Were not changing the game just there are too many players and the goal is too big, so moving the posts in is the way to go as has happened before. If X+Y=Z but you want to keep Z constant and X has increased, devaluing Y is the obvious solution.
#28
Now watch tempratures rising because of users checking their voting power...
banned#29
Ive always maintained that 99% of deals achieve their correct status regardless of instant cold voters, friends voting a deal hot, etc etc. The community is large enough to mean these rogue voters don't really have much power.

But admin isn't trying to alter that - just (I assume) quite simple lower temperatures across the board so we don't end up with loads of 000's temp deals. There's nothing really major happening here.
1 Like #30
(i.e. there's already 5 pages of hot deals today and really we know there aren't that many truly hot deals in a day).

Aren't public holidays a one off, so to speak? ie how many deals were made hot last Thursday (for example)? (when compared with a normal working day 6 months ago)

Also, without wishing to back you into a corner - which deals do you feel are not worthy of their "hot" status?

I'd be in favour of keeping things largely as they are, if that means losing 1 degree of heat/cool, so be it, but much more and it will throw the dynamics of the site completely

skybooks
Now watch tempratures rising because of users checking their voting power...

Or falling.....


Edited By: Johnboy_1975 on May 03, 2011 00:02
banned#31
John boy... The deals hat are not worthy are, for example an ancient DVD down to £2.49 from £2.59 for example.

Any deal with a positive integer temperature is a good deal. Were talking about the hot deal marker which is added when a deal hits a specific temperature, or number of hot votes. No one is saying a none hot deal isn't a good deal to someone, but it should be used as a marker of a seriously hot, good deal, not just added to everything, as seen today.
3 Likes #32
Admin
@fanpages - I think it makes sense that people who find hot deals have more influence than those who do not as it indicates they have a good nose for what is good or not. It's not a perfect system but I do think it is better than a standard vote per person regardless of their history.


:) Those that find "hot" deals are 'rewarded' in voting terms because others consider their listings to be "hot" at the time they are listed. They do not necessarily have a "good nose" on each & every occasion. Others dictate their "success" with listing deals. Listing at the right time, or taking advantage of similar deals listed by other members is often a contributing factor to how a deal temperature progresses.

If the voting was of more importance & was (more) influential in the public's purchasing mentality you could "rig" the system very easily with just a few willing participants but, as you said, there is not a "perfect" system when human behaviour is involved. Granted, such misuse is probably of little benefit to a typical member, but a merchant may well spot how to "play" the site & elevate their deal listings above their competitors. Again, I appreciate the Moderators monitor such activity, but a determined (& knowledgeable) merchant would find ways around the measures you have in place to catch such activity.

This aside, the temperature of a deal influences how soon a member may view the item being described, not their individual purchasing intent. Given enough time many would read every deal listed, but that is far from being practical. I would certainly not take the temperature of a listing as the sole reason for purchasing, or not purchasing at all. The comments in each listing from members assist with the decision-making, but personal research also plays an important part of the process. Granted, not everybody is the same. The temperature of a deal listing may be the only factor for some members.

I have benefited from many deal listings that have not reached the "hot" status just by viewing the forum summary view at the right moment to catch a listing in the first page or so.

What needs to improve, though, is the search facility for the site. If it could be relied upon to return all (relevant) listings for a given criteria then the site could reach a wider audience by competing with product price comparison sites. More visitors would, as I am sure you can foresee, result in higher revenue for the site.

Presently, it is very "hit & miss" as to whether the search results include a specific deal listing, & the limited sorting/ordering features mean you may well miss the best price (or "hottest" deal) as advancing several pages of results may seem fruitless.

Couple this with the fact that members do not expire their deal listings when the item described is no longer available (at the price listed) & the search results soon become redundant.

Are the (well, not so, now) newly-appointed "Helpers" assisting with the expiration of such listings?

BFN,

fp.
#33
so how many deals passed 1000 that made you guys want to get heated up enough to mess with an overly complicated system.
I would dare to suggest that most people who use this site firstly look at the deal at lastly at how hot it is before voting.
#34
Zzzzz.


Much needed update - nice work admin fellers.
#35
GAVINLEWISHUKD
But your asking why do we need these goalposts!? Were not changing the game just there are too many players and the goal is too big, so moving the posts in is the way to go as has happened before. If X+Y=Z but you want to keep Z constant and X has increased, devaluing Y is the obvious solution.


True... but what are X, Y, & Z representing in your equation?

BFN,

fp.
1 Like #36
You have my vote, at long last, the amount of non-deals becoming hot has gone mad over the last year.....now if we can just work out a way of not getting people to vote on deals that seem to consist of ... "I managed to get the manager of my local tesco express in the outer hebrides to reduce the cost of the second last courgette from 29p to 15p" then I'll be even happier !

Edited By: Northerndave on May 03, 2011 00:39
4 Likes #37
I thought it was just me, who gets fed up with a certain person, swamping the place with every different supermarket deal posting every item one by one. Then posting every crap DVD one by one, then copying everything from Money Man site, then all the offers from the Offer of the day site.
Perhaps time to limit the number of deals a person can post a day.
I always look forward to the days they give it a miss ;-)
#38
it really doesn't help that people vote 99p deals upto 1000 degrees sometimes. Bearing in mind the time, petrol and effort it takes to get there in the first place, it's not a deal by that time. Certainly not one worth shouting about anyway.
[admin]#39
This change isn't going to be that dramatic or get rid of people's voting habits (i.e. on £2.49 CD deals) but it is a step in devaluing votes to address some of the inflation.

Re the comparison question. My example was just off the cuff. We looked at the average of the last months against a year ago - looking at deal temps but also number of votes. Obviously as more members vote the average deal temp goes up spilling more deals into the 'hot' tab. To address this we either rachet up the 'hot' threshold or reduce the relative impact of a hot vote.

There's a few other things I am thinking on in regards to upping the quality of deals. The big thing here is how the community interacts on a listing actually - I hope we can find ways to keep a helpful site while still being critical of deals listed and getting members to be more careful when posting. We added some tip text to the submit form to encourage more detailed posts for example.

@fanpages - Yes the HUKD helpers expire deals also to try and keep on top of that. Search is a tricky beast but your point is valid in regards to it having the possibility of being a more essential part of the site.
1 Like #40
fanpages, I think the higher voting power was there to stop various bad practices, such as self promotion (i.e. sign up 20 new accounts & get your deal on the homepage). I think the system is a kind of democracy (the existing members vote your deals & thus your deal judgement). I like it &, frankly, it sounds like it is staying.

As for the reduction, yeah, no problems (basically a 100 degree deal 2 years ago may have taken an average of hot 30 votes, where the average votes per deal was 35, where now the average is 100 votes per deal because the membership has increased, so make sense). Fanpages should like this - means newbies/non-deal-posters/cold-deal-posters get closer to 1 person 1 vote (I assume that everyone will still get a 1 degree vote).

As for the supermarket deals, I think that the majority, myself inlcuded, (quietly) make their views known (they vote them hot), despite the cold votes of those who vocally run the deals down. Either add a supermarket deals tab & let those who dislike them ignore them or live with it.

On the ignore subject, please please please can we have an all without comps option (even just a link i.e. hotukdeals.com/hot/all/allnotcomp) as I hate how the comps are flooding the hot tab (I always think if the comp is hot on here, then there are going be too many entries to make it worthwhile trying).

Post a Comment

You don't need an account to leave a comment. Just enter your email address. We'll keep it private.

...OR log in with your social account

...OR comment using your social account

Thanks for your comment! Keep it up!
We just need to have a quick look and it will be live soon.
The community is happy to hear your opinion! Keep contributing!