Members only forum for misprices or voucher loopholes - HotUKDeals
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#1
Not a good idea and I believe Paul will say NO.
#2
Fair enough - but can you elaborate why?
#3
I believe Paul/Admin likes an open site, meaning you should not have to log in or register to read any posts/deals.
I've joined a few sites, like this (not as good) where you have to register to see the forums, these sites are crap and the info they have 'hidden' is dated and crap.
#4
I see, I suppose if the best deals were hidden from casual browsers a lot of people might lose interest in the site. It's just anoying how many misprices or voucher orders I've had cancelled latley, probably due to the volume of people applying.
#5
yeah at least if everyone can see it , theres more chance of expired deals being spotted quicker. and this is a community site anyway so it would defeat the object by hiding stuff from the users.
bet the mods have got something along this lines though ... sneak preview :whistling: just kidding!
[admin]#6
My thinking is that open information breeds more information. If we are open it encourages lurkers and passers by to join in when they have something to add.

There is a big pool of people who do not register or post yes but the site should be a breeding ground for their eventual participation and even if they are not posting they are absorbing our community. One day they may have something to add that will benefit us all.

This has come up ages ago even and if I look back and think to a year ago, if we had locked the site to those members, what would it be like now? A lot poorer site to be honest if we didn't have all the contribution no matter how small from all the people who have joined in over that time.

As for misprices, I believe the more the better. If a merchant does a misprice and a secret group of 10 people are involved what clout do they have? None. Now imagine if a 500,000 do the same thing...then what happens... Strength is in numbers always, and right now we are at a point where yeah things go big and merchants try to hush it up but as we keep growing it will be more and more difficult for them to do that. The more numbers we have the more they have to look at it as a PR situation.
#7
bod emrys
I see, I suppose if the best deals were hidden from casual browsers a lot of people might lose interest in the site. It's just anoying how many misprices or voucher orders I've had cancelled latley, probably due to the volume of people applying.

I don't think they have been cancelled because of the volume of people buying them, they have probably been cancelled because the Company realised they had messed up.
#8
Admin

As for misprices, I believe the more the better. If a merchant does a misprice and a secret group of 10 people are involved what clout do they have? None. Now imagine if a 500,000 do the same thing...then what happens... Strength is in numbers always, and right now we are at a point where yeah things go big and merchants try to hush it up but as we keep growing it will be more and more difficult for them to do that. The more numbers we have the more they have to look at it as a PR situation.


That's a good point - hadn't considered it that way.
[admin]#9
That's a good point - hadn't considered it that way.


The more people in on it the more of a customer service nightmare also - there are costs involved with that too, plus negative PR, plus the big one is legal implications. Again with a few people you don't have much legal clout but imagine if hundreds of thousands were in on a misprice? Then it becomes much more of a serious legal situation and merchants wouldn't be able to gloss over the situation.
banned#10
I think hidden forums say alot about the site :whistling:
#11
Also, the more people that use the link...the more HotUK make in revenue ;)

And no im not moaning, 9 times out of 10 I click thru the link rather than go thru quidco.
[admin]#12
I don't make fundamental site decisions based on revenue smashed. If I thought that having closed/private/hidden forums would be beneficial for the entire HUKD community I would do it. However, as I noted above I believe that openness is the better way to go not only because it is in the interest of the whole community and not some secret cabal but also because I think the openness of the site is going to allow the community to change things on a real big level.
#13
Admin
I don't make fundamental site decisions based on revenue smashed. If I thought that having closed/private/hidden forums would be beneficial for the entire HUKD community I would do it. However, as I noted above I believe that openness is the better way to go not only because it is in the interest of the whole community and not some secret cabal but also because I think the openness of the site is going to allow the community to change things on a real big level.

Paul,
Seen as your are about, can you comment on the recent HUKD server/logging out/in problems and the recent Quidco problems with tracking? Please.
[admin]#14
I saw your thread dinosteveus and if I had a suggestion I would have posted it in there. It doesn't seem to be a wider problem so there's not much I can say.

The problem with the server errors I am aware of and it's trying to be troubleshot (troubleshooted?) but haven't found the cause of that yet.
#15
Admin
troubleshot (troubleshooted?) but haven't found the cause of that yet.


Has Admin been on the Drinkies!, lol ;-)

(self aggregated?, lol! )
#16
Admin
If I thought that having closed/private/hidden forums would be beneficial for the entire HUKD community I would do it. However, as I noted above I believe that openness is the better way to go not only because it is in the interest of the whole community and not some secret cabal but also because I think the openness of the site is going to allow the community to change things on a real big level.



For once i totally agree with you Admin :)
#17
Admin
I saw your thread dinosteveus and if I had a suggestion I would have posted it in there. It doesn't seem to be a wider problem so there's not much I can say.

The problem with the server errors I am aware of and it's trying to be troubleshot (troubleshooted?) but haven't found the cause of that yet.

OK. :roll: Just a word or something to confirm you knew about them would have 'helped'.
Both problems now seem to be sorted. :thumbsup:
#18
saxo_appeal
For once i totally agree with you Admin :)

WOW, :? that's a first from astra_appeal. hehehehe:whistling: Have you sold it yet?
#19
No Astra still not sold!!:x :-( :-(

Im thinking of sticking it on Ebay but ill have to put the reserve on coz im not letting it go cheap.
#20
dinosteveus
Not a good idea and I believe Paul will say NO.


Yeah... Admin prefers this to be an open site accesible for all. Arent you annoyed when forced to register just to 'view' information? :-D
#21
edi
Yeah... Admin prefers this to be an open site accesible for all. Arent you annoyed when forced to register just to 'view' information? :-D

Yes I am, especially when I find out the information is old and came from HUKD or MSE.
#22
I understand your reasons for wanting this to go ahead but unfortunately most people are very greedy and will try and take advantage of the loophole as much as possible, that it will send alarm bells ringing (second time i've used that word this morning and i never use it :p ) and they'll cancel the orders.

A prime example of this is when Play.com accidentally gave £5 off every item with orders over £50, so what a lot of people did, was order 10 x £5 items for completely free, which means the heavily discounted prices which probably equated to over £100 rrp was not only being for dirt cheap, but now it was being sold for nothing with free delivery.

I think if people would of been able to contain there greed, we would of been able to get away with additional savings than intended but on a public forum, it's impossible to contain that, regardless if they're a member or not.
#23
I think the OP's idea is a good one, how many of the recent misprices have actually materialised due to too many people jumping on with multiple accounts etc.
#24
realfriendlyman
I think if people would of been able to contain there greed, we would of been able to get away with additional savings than intended but on a public forum, it's impossible to contain that, regardless if they're a member or not.


Thats agreed! :thumbsup:
banned#25
dont think it will ever work .. most people will always be greedy and they can be classed as the one`s who think of themselves and ****** eveyone else far too much of that in life, so thats why I have no sympathy for the whinging when the "mis priced oh I didnt get my item , its not fair stamp my feet brigade appear"
#26
i dont think members forum would stop it anyhow as all that is needed to become a member is an email address, so hardly an effort is needed
#27
I think it's a great idea, but I know it's been long since poo pooed by admin. I think the idea in general to have the whole hot deals section closed to guests is a good idea, but this one is even better...keep the main forum open and add a new one that is private and for extra extra hot deals. That way the forum doesn't die from lack of new public input but it also means the regulars get a perk (because let's be honest, at the moment there is zero incentive to be a 'giver' here).
[mod]#28
Only problem is, the site traffic would then move away to somewhere like MSE as people won't put the effort in to get involved which then means that Paul loses his referral money which ultimately leads to the death of the site.

Although there are 40,000+ members, only about a 1,000 tops visit often and probably only 200 of those are hardcore members who are here all the time.
#29
Starlet
That way the forum doesn't die from lack of new public input but it also means the regulars get a perk (because let's be honest, at the moment there is zero incentive to be a 'giver' here).

Good point and spot on. :-( :-(
[admin]#30
That way the forum doesn't die from lack of new public input but it also means the regulars get a perk (because let's be honest, at the moment there is zero incentive to be a 'giver' here).
A regular member who doesn't think helping the community is incentive to be a giver probably doesn't belong here. This whole site works because people give to help others without an incentive other than the power we have as consumers when we share openly and freely. I strongly dislike secret "clubs" and making a secret deal club is not the way forward for the community period. Read my post on the first page. It is short-sighted, selfish, and borne out of motivations which this site doesn't support. If you honestly believe the regular posters here would carry the site by themselves I believe you are delusional. As I said go and look at the deals that have come out in the past year and how many have been from new members. Making the community larger is the way to give us all more power and to find more deals. Having one million eyeballs scraping the whole of the UK is going to result in more deals and loopholes than 50 people secretly trying to hoard something. I don't ask that everyone agree with me but it is also an issue I am not going to debate. I fundamentally and fully believe that this site works because it is open information that anyone can read as well as contribute to. It is a founding principle of HUKD and is not going to be changed.
Only problem is, the site traffic would then move away to somewhere like MSE as people won't put the effort in to get involved which then means that Paul loses his referral money which ultimately leads to the death of the site.
I've said this before and I'll say it again because it bears repeating. Decisions on HUKD are not made because of financial reasons. If you want to beat that drum out of ignorance fine but I find it insulting to myself and the ethos of this site that a long term member would pull that line. As I said I believe information should be open and free and that also means that I refuse to be bullied by merchants. Because I will stand up for the right of HUKD members to post what they want as long as it's legal we are not able to run referral links for many major merchants, we also put up with a lot of legal crap and threats from merchants trying to hush things up. As I said I consider that kind of argument as ignorance because maybe you haven't put the time into thinking about how the site works or looking at various links etc. However, I do take it very personally as it is a slur and not accurate in any way to the principles on which this site is run.
#31
The whole argument issue aside practically it is important to realise that
one other thing to remember is that we have far too many members for a private area to work anyway - 44k+ persons able to view something is hardly exclusive enough to get misprices to work 100% of the time - they are a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and others you get a voucher. If it was restricted it'd need to be by rep or post count and therefore wouldnt work anyway for the reason Paul mentioned - the lack of opportunity for regs to find these deals.
[mod]#32
Admin
A regular member who doesn't think helping the community is incentive to be a giver probably doesn't belong here. This whole site works because people give to help others without an incentive other than the power we have as consumers when we share openly and freely. I strongly dislike secret "clubs" and making a secret deal club is not the way forward for the community period. Read my post on the first page. It is short-sighted, selfish, and borne out of motivations which this site doesn't support. If you honestly believe the regular posters here would carry the site by themselves I believe you are delusional. As I said go and look at the deals that have come out in the past year and how many have been from new members. Making the community larger is the way to give us all more power and to find more deals. Having one million eyeballs scraping the whole of the UK is going to result in more deals and loopholes than 50 people secretly trying to hoard something. I don't ask that everyone agree with me but it is also an issue I am not going to debate. I fundamentally and fully believe that this site works because it is open information that anyone can read as well as contribute to. It is a founding principle of HUKD and is not going to be changed. I've said this before and I'll say it again because it bears repeating. Decisions on HUKD are not made because of financial reasons. If you want to beat that drum out of ignorance fine but I find it insulting to myself and the ethos of this site that a long term member would pull that line. As I said I believe information should be open and free and that also means that I refuse to be bullied by merchants. Because I will stand up for the right of HUKD members to post what they want as long as it's legal we are not able to run referral links for many major merchants, we also put up with a lot of legal crap and threats from merchants trying to hush things up. As I said I consider that kind of argument as ignorance because maybe you haven't put the time into thinking about how the site works or looking at various links etc. However, I do take it very personally as it is a slur and not accurate in any way to the principles on which this site is run.


It wasn't intended as a slur but it also makes sense that the site needs to make money to survive.
[admin]#33
It wasn't intended as a slur but it also makes sense that the site needs to make money to survive.
I would hope that if everything went pear shaped and if the site needed the financial support of the community to keep running that we would come up with something to do so whether donations or whatever. As I said - the decisions are made for the community not for making money.
Only problem is, the site traffic would then move away to somewhere like MSE as people won't put the effort in to get involved which then means that Paul loses his referral money which ultimately leads to the death of the site.
Read that again. Your base argument is valid but has nothing to do with money. Lock up the info to a select few and the greater community will suffer and the site will die. That I agree with.
[mod]#34
It was certainly not meant to come across in the wrong way and for that i apologise. Myself and i'm sure many others who virtually live here would do all we could to keep the site alive. :thumbsup:
#35
Has anyone thought of this?

If you make a members only forum for extra special deals, someone will sign up from MSE and the million and one other places, and put them on their site anyway! Therefore you will be driving guests to the other forums to search for the deals that are secretly hoarded over here!

Also by keeping all deals and threads open, when places retract their codes / offers / misprices, everyone can see how angry we are as consumers - including the stores that were at fault. I think this will prevent some of the ahem fraudulent mispricing of the likes we have seen lately - because companies will not want to be dealing with that amount of complaints, plus the very bad reputation that lingers with their name on huge forums such as this.

And lastly I just want to add that if Pauls motives were truely about money and money only, wouldnt he bombard this site with pop up adverts and flashing links like other sites do!?!

I've said this before and I will say it again:
Yes this site makes some money from links etc. BUT this site also costs money to run. Servers/ hosting, payments for mods (if they dont get paid they should do!), possible legal costs now and then? Plus building a site like this is hard work, and it has been mentioned in the past that Paul has had to pay people to help make certain adjustments - this alone costs big bucks!

And who are these adustments for? YOU!
He could just leave it as it is, but he spends money and time and effort to improve the site for us all!

This is not directed towards anyone in particular but to address the money 'issue' that is reccurant on quite a few threads.
[admin]#36
It was certainly not meant to come across in the wrong way and for that i apologise. Myself and i'm sure many others who virtually live here would do all we could to keep the site alive. :thumbsup:


Thanks syzable - re-reading my post it was pretty harsh and I apologise for that too. It's something I'm really passionate about and I guess I am sensitive to the issue because it is exactly what I'm trying to avoid with this site - the focus will always be on the community period.

As for the money "issue" as angelkelly writes - I'm not going to try and run up a costs tab and so forth. Simply put yes the site costs a lot to run (our db and front end cluster is up to 5 dedicated servers now just on the hosting part of costs) but we are fortunate that we are able to have merchants who do see the value this site can offer (when they run genuinely good bargains) and who pay a commission for that. So we are able to have a community site with no banner ads, no pop-ups, no spam emails, no "offers" when you sign up etc.

My view is that as long as the site is putting the community first and is held accountable to that foundation - then any issues of money are not relevant (as long as it's making enough to pay for itself). If it makes a profit great - if it starts to worry about making money at the cost of the community that's when it becomes a problem.
#37
Here's one, a poster on HUKD mentioned this site called PaidToShop, I thought I'd have a look, like you do. What a load of crap. You have to register to look at the Forums and there is nothing to look at. 8,500 members.
Have a look:-
http://www.paidtoshop.co.uk/forum/index.php
I would hate to think of HUKD becoming anything like that.
They have a 'Donate' page so members can donate to the sites upkeep.:-
http://www.paidtoshop.co.uk/forum/misc.php?do=donate
I'm not knocking the site, it must be doing something right to still be around but.......
#38
Why does admin allow guests to access the hot deals?

Currently Active Users: 3534 (479 members and 3055 guests)


Shouldn't guests be made to sign up to access the deals, and maybe they might feel like contributing to the board and posting a reply rather than just grabbing a deal?
#39
Because you don't have to be signed in to earn the site money, so your hardly going to refuse their earning potentially just because they don't bother to sign up- that would be silly :thumbsup:
#40
col
Because you don't have to be signed in to earn the site money, so your hardly going to refuse their earning potentially just because they don't bother to sign up- that would be silly :thumbsup:


Hes got it.

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