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Comments/page:
#1
It's up to people to use their common sense, and check out all necessary details before the transaction.

If a scammer is really wanting to scam, they'll build up the post count anyway...
#2
People just need to follow the exact HUKD rules/guidelines, Thats a start to stop scamming!
#3
emmajk42
It's up to people to use their common sense, and check out all necessary details before the transaction.

If a scammer is really wanting to scam, they'll build up the post count anyway...


Should it be entirely up to people to use their common sense? I would say this is passing the buck. In my opinion the site should try and protect against scammers ... and obviously as mods post guidelines that this is the concensus with you guys too?

I doubt a scammer would spend the time to build up post counts (or if they did it would be obvious this was what they were doing) ... not when they could go to a different site where they did not have to make the effort. Or go by rep? Anyway don't know much about scamming ....
[admin] 1 Like #4
Should it be entirely up to people to use their common sense? I would say this is passing the buck. In my opinion the site should try and protect against scammers ... and obviously as mods post guidelines that this is the concensus with you guys too?


We already do. We post guidelines, we have a do not trade list, we strongly recommend using the reputation.

I think someone saying they were too stupid is passing the buck to be honest. If someone doesn't follow our advice and doesn't understand the risk inherent in any online trade then they shouldn't whine if they get scammed.
#5
Not only the above, but those who have scammed in the past, tend to have built a fair post count beforehand.
#6
I do realise that you do have some protection against scammers ... which is a good start. The fact people often get scammed does suggest that current mechanisms are insufficient. I don't really agree with the concept that stupid people deserve to be scammed.


rayman
Not only the above, but those who have scammed in the past, tend to have built a fair post count beforehand.


Restrictions could also be based on rep as suggested above :)

Fools rush in where fools have been before.
#7
I don't think a rep "amount" would work:- a lot of us can give a loooooot of rep in one go - about 7 boxes. And post counts can be built up easily in the Misc section.

Almost forgot:- :|
#8
Common sense is key, One basic principle = Never buy a high value item from a new seller.

Or : Only buy what you can afford to waste.
[admin]#9
I do realise that you do have some protection against scammers ... which is a good start. The fact people often get scammed does suggest that current mechanisms are insufficient. I don't really agree with the concept that stupid people deserve to be scammed.

No-one deserves to be scammed but I'm personally not going to make a visit to someone's house and confiscate their cards and bank account to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

People have information, beyond that it's up to them to use their intelligence.

Edit:
The fact people often get scammed does suggest that current mechanisms are insufficient.


Look at the amount of trades going on in fs/ft. The vast majority happen without any problem. People do not get scammed "often". Does it happen? Sure it's inevitable. If everything in life has to be 100% sure then you shouldn't get out of bed in the morning. If you can't take the heat stay out of the fire. There's a million sayings here. Bottom line is use your common sense - on one hand people complain about a nanny state and then on the other they want all their decisions made for them.
#10
Gaia
I do realise that you do have some protection against scammers ... which is a good start. The fact people often get scammed does suggest that current mechanisms are insufficient. I don't really agree with the concept that stupid people deserve to be scammed.

Fools rush in where fools have been before.

I missed this latest scam. Who was it?

I am in two minds about this, the buyer should 'check' out the seller as much as they can before parting with a penny, but who does? Hardly anybody. I think it's because HUKD is seen by most as a nice, safe, trusting Community.
Having the 'Traders to Avoid' list is a waste of time, most of the 'names' are banned anyway so they can't trade. I think it gives a false sense of security to some people that bother to look at it, 'Oh look' blah blah isn't on that list so it must be OK to trade with them'.
I also thinks the Mods remove some posts willy nilly, I've seen some members post reservations about the seller but it's deemed as thread spoiling and is removed. I know what the Mods will say, 'You could report the post and we will look into it', yea right, how much time do they have to 'check out' a seller/poster, not that much because they have other things to do. We have more time to check somebody out, we don't have the IP Address tool that the Mods have but......
Anyway, I've made the above points many times before and I'm always wrong.

[SIZE=3][COLOR=red]Caveat emptor:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( [/COLOR][/SIZE]
Let the buyer beware
[admin]#11
Yes caveat emptor as with absolutely everything in life.

I am in two minds about this, the buyer should 'check' out the seller as much as they can before parting with a penny, but who does? Hardly anybody. I think it's because HUKD is seen by most as a nice, safe, trusting Community.


You have to admit though dinosteveus that a big post saying please follow these guidelines on every thread should be encouragement to people to check out the seller? If they choose not to then...well...they can only blame themselves really.
#12
Admin

Edit:

Look at the amount of trades going on in fs/ft. The vast majority happen without any problem. People do not get scammed "often". Does it happen? Sure it's inevitable. If everything in life has to be 100% sure then you shouldn't get out of bed in the morning. If you can't take the heat stay out of the fire. There's a million sayings here. Bottom line is use your common sense - on one hand people complain about a nanny state and then on the other they want all their decisions made for them.


Yea, I agree.
#13
Admin

You have to admit though dinosteveus that a big post saying please follow these guidelines on every thread should be encouragement to people to check out the seller? If they choose not to then...well...they can only blame themselves really.


Paul, I've an idea.



Will all the posters on this thread write down the HUKD Disclaimer, without looking at it? No cheating, I know all of you have seen it loads of times, how many actually take notice of it?
#14
I've seen it loads of times but I don't remember it word for word.
Is it too much info to 'take in'?

Pay with Paypal.
Check out the seller.
Check they have a landline number, phone it.
Check they have a 'normal' email address.
[admin]#15
If no-one notices it we might as well stop doing it as it takes a lot of time hehe!

Gaia by the way I"m not having a go at you - I understand your concerns and it's good to be worried about the community. Let me give you an example from my end though: We noticed a shady member on here which we had banned before, so we banned him again but saw that someone had posted interest in the thread. So we pm'd that person saying hey we recommend don't trade with this guy. The person pm'd back saying oh well it's a good price so I think I'll do the deal anyway thanks for the warning. That's my point - we could hold hands all the way and monitor everything to the nth degree but at the end of the day people will do what they want to do. With that in mind I would rather give the information and resources to the people who want to protect themselves, give the education to members who want to enable themselves and give the option to be an idiot to those who want to chase after things even when common sense and every warning says no. No matter what we do people are still going to ignore us and do what they think is best so who are we to stand in the way of that. Obviously we pro-actively weed out any obvious scams but in terms of general trading common sense, that is up to each individual.
#16
Admin
No-one deserves to be scammed but I'm personally not going to make a visit to someone's house and confiscate their cards and bank account to prevent them from doing what they want to do.


:whistling: Not my original suggestion ... but nothing like lateral thinking.;-)

And yes your right I am over exaggerating ... I guess in the grand scheme of things it is not often compared to the successful sales. Just a suggestion I don't know how easy things are to code and probably I do mollycoddle people.

Sorry to excite you dino not a new new scam :)
#17
Err, I'll give it a go.......

Exchange Landline Numbers.
Exchange addresses
Don't have a disposable email address
Check ebay feedback if they have any
And I think the rest is advice about posting images, About the forum feedback and the traders avoid list?

So what have I missed?
#18
Gaia
And yes your right I am over exaggerating ... I guess in the grand scheme of things it is not often compared to the successful sales. Just a suggestion I don't know how easy things are to code and probably I do mollycoddle people.


It's not about how easy or hard it is to code... it's thinking of an idea that works.

You said earlier that our system isn't working because people are being scammed and nothing is done about it, but likewise... look at eBay. People still get scammed there, despite feedback and complex security systems and buyer/seller protection on PayPal.

There's no fool proof method. If there was, I'm sure we'd use it.
#19
Admin
If no-one notices it we might as well stop doing it as it takes a lot of time hehe!

Gaia by the way I"m not having a go at you - I understand your concerns and it's good to be worried about the community. Let me give you an example from my end though: We noticed a shady member on here which we had banned before, so we banned him again but saw that someone had posted interest in the thread. So we pm'd that person saying hey we recommend don't trade with this guy. The person pm'd back saying oh well it's a good price so I think I'll do the deal anyway thanks for the warning. That's my point - we could hold hands all the way and monitor everything to the nth degree but at the end of the day people will do what they want to do. With that in mind I would rather give the information and resources to the people who want to protect themselves, give the education to members who want to enable themselves and give the option to be an idiot to those who want to chase after things even when common sense and every warning says no. No matter what we do people are still going to ignore us and do what they think is best so who are we to stand in the way of that. Obviously we pro-actively weed out any obvious scams but in terms of general trading common sense, that is up to each individual.


Did that really happen?
:-( :-( :-( :-(
#20
Iom-RF
Err, I'll give it a go.......

Exchange Landline Numbers.
Exchange addresses
Don't have a disposable email address
Check ebay feedback if they have any
And I think the rest is advice about posting images, About the forum feedback and the traders avoid list?

So what have I missed?


Pretty much, well done:-

[COLOR=#006400]This message is being inserted in all For Sale or Trade forum threads.

[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000ff][COLOR=#0000ff]Please be advised, all buyers and sellers should satisfy themselves that either party is genuine by providing the following via PM to each other and to Admin or a Moderator:[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000ff][COLOR=#0000ff]

1]Landline[/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000] telephone number Make a CALL to check out the area code and number are correct too!
[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]2][/COLOR][COLOR=blue]Name and address[/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000] including postcode
[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]3][/COLOR][COLOR=blue]Valid e-mail[/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000] address [no disposable addresses such as @gmail or @yahoo for example].
[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]4][/COLOR][COLOR=blue]Using PayPal[/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000] then check out eBay feedback if there is any and make a small payment to and from each other to validate the PayPal e-mail address.
[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]5][/COLOR][COLOR=blue]If possible[/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000], [/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000]collect and pay for items in person
[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]6][/COLOR][COLOR=blue]Only buy [/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000]from Verified PayPal Members if possible[/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000].

[COLOR=blue]Do NOT[/COLOR] proceed with a deal until you are completely satisfied with all details being correct. It's in your best interest to check out these details yourself.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000ff][COLOR=#8b0000]
[COLOR=blue]Offer and acceptance of trade or sale[/COLOR] must be posted in relevant thread. [COLOR=blue]You must NOT[/COLOR] deal by PM only or have items for sale or trade elsewhere online if listed here.


[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]NOTE[/COLOR][COLOR=#8b0000]: [/COLOR][COLOR=blue]Please post images of the actual items for sale to show[/COLOR][COLOR=blue] the condition and that you have the items in your possession. Thanks!

[/COLOR]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=green]More Advice on Posting Images Here[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[/COLOR][SIZE=2][COLOR=darkslateblue][B]Leaving Feedback Details Here[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[/B][COLOR=darkgreen]Full Forum Rules/Guidelines[/COLOR][COLOR=green] [SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Please Read Here[/COLOR][/SIZE].[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#008000][/COLOR]
#21
Gaia

Sorry to excite you dino not a new new scam :)

I wasn't excited. I'm chuffed that there wasn't a scam:thumbsup:
#22
Admin
Let me give you an example from my end though: We noticed a shady member on here which we had banned before, so we banned him again but saw that someone had posted interest in the thread. So we pm'd that person saying hey we recommend don't trade with this guy. The person pm'd back saying oh well it's a good price so I think I'll do the deal anyway thanks for the warning.


It is good to know this much effort goes into trying to prevent scammers.

Okies duckmagicuk2 I get the point the idea is simplistic and crap. I go back to the drawing board :p.

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