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[Suggestion] Get rid of COLD VOTES

silkhuksilkhuk

The other day I got wound up, and not for the first time, because a deal that I posted went cold for no good reason. Yes, I know everything is subjective, but we'll get to that.

What purpose do cold votes serve? Let's have a look at what they do.

* They breed a feeling of negativity.

Nobody likes being told their deal is crap, even if it is. They went through the effort of posting a deal, surely that's the main thing?

* They discourage people posting.

I understand the need to prevent spam but this is not the way to do it, because you'll also put off people from posting genuinely useful deals.

* It makes HUKD non newbie friendly and promotes trolling.

There's a reason newbies start their posts with "please be gentle"; it's because HUKD is often quite hostile and stomps deals that weren't that bad into the ground, and sometimes the OP gets a lot of flak as well.

* They counter hot votes, so if a deal is useful to one person but not another, the deal remains neutral or goes cold.

This has horrendous implications for "niche" deals; things that only appeal to a small audience but are good deals nonetheless (e.g. because it's the cheapest they've ever been) will usually get cold over time as most folks don't see the value in the merchandise.

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HUKD should be a place to share deals, not a place to bash people's deals.

May times I've seen deals go cold for no reason. e.g.

One was a bamboo tablet thread some poor dude raised, whilst he got heat from people that could read, most just clicked cold because it wasn't the cheapest. Except it was. For that model, which was a better version.

I've recently had another bad experience myself, posting about Big Fish games having a day only credit sale. It was it the cheapest you could get those casual games for, by a mile in fact, but it went cold because 1, Someone misunderstood the deal and thought they were flash games and 2, Someone didn't understand that casual games are usually more expensive thus the deal was good. Even worse, some of the cold votes will have been from people who obtain the software for free, illegally, then have the audacity to flag my deal as bad because apparently breaking the law is a much better option.

There was a niche deal, can't remember if I posted it or someone else, for the T3 special pack with a big plastic head. It was like 20 quid cheaper than it ever had been, but went cold. Because it's a niche item, and not many people, especially the beloved HUKD bargain hunters, would ever be interseted in it. Yet they clicked cold anyway.

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If cold voting were removed:

* People would feel better about posting deals they weren't sure about e.g. niche deals, or deals that were cheaper in the past but can't be got at that price anymore.
* It would negate some of the nastiness that ends up in cold deals.
* It would stop niche or misunderstood deals falling into the abyss.
* It would make hot/popular deals go even hotter.
* It would stop HUKD being a popularity contest, voting cold because someone annoyed you in the past.
* It would stop people feeling they have to put disclaimers into their deals because they're scared of cold votes (e.g. I know this is 1p cheaper on xxx but it's not in stock there blah de blah..)
* Duplicate deals would simply be reported using a new "duplicate" button.
* Spam deals would be reported as per current means.
* Bum deals could be reported as per current means.

We'd then have a scenario where very poor deals don't go above 0 degrees, which is fine, I don't see why they have to be cold voted to see that they're no good.

Also often is the case that even though it isn't the cheapest an item has ever been, it's the cheapest you can get it for right now. Should that deal be cold? No! Because someone looking to buy that item right now will appreciate you put the effort into posting where it's in stock at it's cheapest right now. And they'll give heat. And you deserve the heat.

Anyway that's my suggestion on what would make HUKD better. Cold isn't in the site name, cold shouldn't be a part of the site, period.

All Comments (33)

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1
    Mohammed310
    Totally agree
    Bossworld
    tl;dr


    (I jest, but this will go the same way as most threads complaining about the reasoning behind a hot/cold vote. I see the point of what you're saying but the net effect will be the same - niche deals will still receive very little attention, and a 20p saving on an SSD will attract more hot votes and therefore more attention. Would avoid some deals hitting -ve figures but it just skews it away from the freezing point by an equal measure if that makes sense)
    silkhuk
    Bossworld
    tl;dr


    (I jest, but this will go the same way as most threads complaining about the reasoning behind a hot/cold vote. I see the point of what you're saying but the net effect will be the same - niche deals will still receive very little attention, and a 20p saving on an SSD will attract more hot votes and therefore more attention. Would avoid some deals hitting -ve figures but it just skews it away from the freezing point by an equal measure if that makes sense)


    For niche deals "very little attention" is a million times nicer and friendlier than making that person's deal cold.

    I wouldn't ever expect a niche deal to go hot, what I'm saying is there's no reason to allow it to go cold either.. Cold votes do nothing worthwhile for anyone.
    thenewyou
    Terrible idea, What if you want to troll a person and vote cold just because there a dick head? and it's funny watching people crying over a deal they have just posted because it's gone cold.
    fanpages
    Usual tags added ("another vote cold thread" & "cold voting").

    Some previous thread of note...

    Can we please have the rules/guidelines on Voting made more clear??

    Specifically, comment #56...
    juliet_bravo - Aug 23, 2010 14:42

    Taken from the original help & advice panel-

    If you are cold voting a deal, it is good forum etiquette to post a note in the deal as to why you have done so. There is nothing more confusing to a new member, than to post a deal, only to see it go cold with no explanation. If you found the item cheaper elsewhere, please let us know where and how. If you have no interest or knowledge about the deal at all, please don’t vote cold, just move on.

    HUKD has systems in place to detect serial cold voters, and it may lead to a ban from the forums, as it is against the code of conduct.


    If members feel an apple product, for example, is comparable with another item and they do not think the apple represents good value, then of course they should state that within the thread. However we cannot be too strict with regards to forcing members to justify their votes. It will be detrimental to how the site works and the organic nature in which "hot" deals are voted as such.


    Also, "Cold Voting", & the ironically-titled "EXPIRED - Can you get banned for voting cold too often?" (created by a member that is now banned).
    silkhuk
    NOBODY backs up their cold vote, and people click cold even when something doesn't interest them, so the above is moot.. well, actually everything you've posted backs me up, not sure if that was the intention?



    Edited By: silkhuk on May 13, 2012 20:51
    silkhuk
    realblender
    Stupidest idea ever and I've had some stupid ideas in my time. I think you will find that the cold votes and deal bashing provides all the useful information. e.g. look at your latest cold deal... where you have provided bucket loads of information to help inform us why it should be hot and not going cold. At other times, it is the cold voters that provide this information.

    Anyway, do not post if it causes you stress or if you cannot ignore the hukkers... .


    hahah :)

    It's true though, provide info as to why it's hot and it goes cold anyway!

    This isn't *just* about this deal though, it's about my experience overall since joining HUKD. I haven't seen one benefit of cold votes, only the opposite.
    fanpages
    silkhuk
    NOBODY backs up their cold vote, and people click cold even when something doesn't interest them, so the above is moot.. well, actually everything you've posted backs me up, not sure if that was the intention?


    [ http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/2-1-speaker-set-2-50-instore-asda-1214871?p=14464992 ]
    Johnmcl7
    silkhuk
    NOBODY backs up their cold vote, and people click cold even when something doesn't interest them, so the above is moot.. well, actually everything you've posted backs me up, not sure if that was the intention?




    That is blatantly false as several people in the thread you're complaining about replied saying why they'd voted cold., not everyone does it but to state nobody does (in block capitals no less) looks daft. I don't agree with most of your reasoning, I think the cold part of the voting system has its place as there's never going to be consensus on voting.

    * People would feel better about posting deals they weren't sure about e.g. niche deals, or deals that were cheaper in the past but can't be got at that price anymore.


    I don't think so, getting no votes isn't really any different to getting cold votes and I don't really understand why people should feel put off because they get cold votes, it's not like it's taken many hours of their life to post the deal in the first place nor are they making any loss because of the cold votes.

    * It would negate some of the nastiness that ends up in cold deals.


    Actually, I think it would increase it because people would respond more aggressively in the the deal post because they can't voice their opinion with a cold vote

    * It would stop niche or misunderstood deals falling into the abyss.


    It clearly wouldn't, if a deal is cold/not very good then it's not going to get hot votes when the cold ones aren't available.

    * It would make hot/popular deals go even hotter.


    No, clearly not because what makes a deal hot is not the exact temperature, it's the proportion of votes given to it compared to other deals. Because the other deals are also not going to have cold votes, then hot deals will be as hot as they currently are. Furthermore, the cold votes clearly do not stop hot/popular deals going up the ranks and being more easily found as any cold votes will be drowned out by the hot votes. That's the way the site has worked for a long time and it clearly works as the hot deals are usually genuinely good.

    * It would stop HUKD being a popularity contest, voting cold because someone annoyed you in the past.


    The site has a massive membership and there's simply not enough irritated members to be able to influence the deal that way, furthermore there's nothing stopping those people voting hot on alternate deals to increase them over deals they dislike

    * It would stop people feeling they have to put disclaimers into their deals because they're scared of cold votes (e.g. I know this is 1p cheaper on xxx but it's not in stock there blah de blah..)


    I don't see why they shouldn't have this information, ultimately a deal is hot if the price or package is better than alternatives so a good deal post should point out the next best price or package and the deal is better. By doing so they're more likely to attract hot votes anyway and it saves users having to go and check themselves, if it's not mentioned in the opening post then it will normally be brought up by someone in the thread.
    cloughja
    At lot of people vote things cold because they don't like the product, which makes HDUK less useful for everyone. If people just voted things cold if the product was available elsewhere at a cheaper price then the system would work.
    silkhuk
    @Johnmcl each to their own, I'll agree to disagree on most points bar this one:

    "It clearly wouldn't, if a deal is cold/not very good then it's not going to get hot votes when the cold ones aren't available."

    I think you've misunderstood, I never argued that niche deals would suddenly become blazing hot, they'd probably struggle to get 50 degrees, but that wasn't my point, my point was that like so many other situations, these deals should not go cold. It's clear to me that the cold votes are rarely given with good course or purpose, and rarely backed up with reasoning.

    People have a terrible tendancy to vote cold just because something isn't of value to them personally, completely disregarding that the item (some sort of collectible) is usuallly more expensive thus the deal is valid. I've seen this happen on almost all niche items.

    You've also not mentioned once, anywhere, what positive aspect(s) there are to cold voting. And whilst you personally might not see anything wrong with them, I find them insulting, it makes me feel I've wasted my time as I ususally put effort into my posts and provide examples. As my Dad used to say, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all..


    Edited By: silkhuk on May 14, 2012 10:24
    Blasphemous
    silkhuk, we'll assume for the purpose of this discussion that your concept (removal of 'Cold' votes), is adopted by Admin and is launched as yet another new format...!

    Lets say a 'Hot' deal is something around the 300 degrees mark (it certainly needs at least that to get into the 'Hottest Today' section most days of the week). And a 'Cold' deal can be anything from say 20 odd degrees down to minus whatever in the current format. Yes?

    OK, so today (under the new 'HOT VOTES ONLY' Format), you list what you believe to be a 'hot deal' and it receives some votes (only hot obviously as the 'cold' vote option has been removed). The 'deal' doesn't get particularly hot, lukewarm at best. Lets say around 20 odd degrees. So you're argument (I assume), would be that the lack of votes (only hot allowed in your scenario), would in actual fact make the deal 'cold'... yes? But unless we read the thread, what we're not seeing is the reason for the lack of votes. It may well be that the 'product' IS the best price for that product but the retailer is terrible. Just because a product/service is the best price ANYWHERE, doesn't necessarily make it a 'Hot Deal'. There are far too many variables to simply state that the cheapest price equates to the best/hottest deal. People will vote either way for a number of reasons. Some YOU may find valid, some YOU may not but that is YOUR opinion. We all have an opinion and we're all entitled to it, but it don't make the opinion right and/or any more or less valid that the next persons opinion. If a deal is truly Hot and/or Cold it WILL show as such. The option to vote Hot or Cold and to base your vote on your experience, your knowledge, your belief, your opinion etc etc is the essence of this site, remove that and you might as well close the site.

    I'm voting your concept... COLD.
    silkhuk
    @Blasphemous you really, really overcomplicated it :D

    I'm saying there are no cold deals.

    A lukewarm deal was only useful to a few people.
    A hot deal was useful to many.
    A scorching deal.. well you get the gist.

    Even if a deal is only useful to one person and so only that person gives heat, it's still nice to see clear recognition it was useful to one person insetad of being buried in cold votes - so the OP can feel some satisfaction he helped a person rather than feeling he wasted his time.

    I don't see the need to negatively impact deals, and I've yet to see a reason from anyone that they (cold votes) should remain. They don't serve a purpose, they don't make the site easier to use, they don't make it easier to find hot deals. They just seem to be the digital equivalent of throwing rotten tomatos just because you don't agree with something.


    Edited By: silkhuk on May 14, 2012 12:52
    ants97
    scrap cold deals and 100% you'd be in here crying because your crap deal isn't hotter.

    the voting system works 99.9999999999999999999% of the time and shouldn't be changed because a few mentalists take it far too personally.

    The site is already in danger of becoming offeroftheday with comments due to the number of mod/helper spamming "deals" from affiliate partners, by messing with the voting system you'd just make this another boring deals website.

    leave it as it is.
    Tom Servo
    It's a shame we can't vote some of these feedback threads as cold. ;)
    silkhuk
    ants97
    scrap cold deals and 100% you'd be in here crying because your crap deal isn't hotter.

    the voting system works 99.9999999999999999999% of the time and shouldn't be changed because a few mentalists take it far too personally.

    The site is already in danger of becoming offeroftheday with comments due to the number of mod/helper spamming "deals" from affiliate partners, by messing with the voting system you'd just make this another boring deals website.

    leave it as it is.


    Pointing out facts is crying?

    How did you come to your 99.9%(recurring) statistic?

    What is the benefit of a cold vote?



    Edited By: silkhuk on May 14, 2012 14:53
    Nettle_Warrior
    I totally agree having posted my first 2 deals over the last day my first went cold straight away without explaination and only when I challenged the icecube throwers did anyone come up with a genuinely better deal. My latest deal has gone cold even though it is free and merely a pointer to FIFA 12 fans that they can play as Man City in the last 5 mins as a challenge. If people don't like it so what but genuine fans may now miss the opportunity through people's apathy or in some cases malice...
    Nettle_Warrior
    What I have noticed is that the hottest deals invariably involve chocolate @ Home Bargains... Hotukdeals bringing obesity to the unemployed...
    shawnlee
    Two thoughts;
    Have the clicked vote arrows open a comment-box. No comment = no vote count.
    Have cold voting for 6+ months membership only. OR 3+ months membership AND a deal posted.
    master_chief
    It's interesting isn't it, this question gets asked all the time yet no mod steps in and links to other threads on the subject and locks immediately yet ask about scan and you get exactly that...

    http://www.hotukdeals.com/feedback/what-happened-scan-1219235

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