Trading rules - Thoughts on relaxation ? - HotUKDeals
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#1
The problem that there is ambiguity as to where it sells first (say if there's an offer on each site), however this should be left down to the sellers discretion. Aside from this there isn't really any problem
#2
I personally feel that this is one rule that should stay. If the seller is not having luck selling their item, then it is now no hardship to close the thread and attempt to sell elsewhere (through fo.lk), whereas having an item being sold simultaneously between one or more places could potentially lead to a buyer being given the run around by the seller, as they have sold the item elsewhere.

It could also lead to a 'bidding war' where the seller plays off between two different buyers.
#3
spic
I personally feel that this is one rule that should stay. If the seller is not having luck selling their item, then it is now no hardship to close the thread and attempt to sell elsewhere (through fo.lk), whereas having an item being sold simultaneously between one or more places could potentially lead to a buyer being given the run around by the seller, as they have sold the item elsewhere.

It could also lead to a 'bidding war' where the seller plays off between two different buyers.


+1
#4
Hmm, i think perhaps as long as it is clearly stated that it is listed elsewhere, it actually may force people to make more serious offers other than the obligatory 20% lower than what the op has asked for every time.

Once an offer has been accepted on here, then it shouldn't matter whether it is listed elsewhere, as it is then irrelevant.
#5
A definite stay.

It can lead to a lot of time wasting and messing around as negotiations can be stopped midway if it sells somewhere else.

It would also lead to a lot of "its already upto £150 on ebay comments"

It will also lead to cross promotion of items on ebay.
#6
boothy
A definite stay.

It can lead to a lot of time wasting and messing around as negotiations can be stopped midway if it sells somewhere else.

It would also lead to a lot of "its already upto £150 on ebay comments"

It will also lead to cross promotion of items on ebay.


Well, i don't think you are looking at the whole picture here, if it is relaxed, i'm sure there will be additional rules applied to this which would prevent buyers getting the run around, after all, the seller wants the most he/she can get, and everyone else wants a bargain.

If a seller has clearly stated that it is listed elsewhere, perhaps we should be entitled to know exactly where else it is listed, and as i suggested, once the seller has accepted an offer, he/she then has to honour it, just my 2 cents.

I also don't think sellers should be able to have it on ebay etc whilst it is on here, since ebay is an auction site and you shouldnt really have it listed elsewhere if it is under auction anywhere, unless of course it is on buy it now.

Thinking more on this, perhaps items listed here and on ebay should have matching asking prices, in an non auction format? for example..

if you have an xbox on here, and your asking price here is 100 quid, then if you have it on ebay buy it now / best offer, the amount needs to also be 100 quid.

It may just be easier to exclude ebay altogether though lol
banned#7
Sorry about the temporary lock. I clicked the wrong option, meaning to subscribe not close.
banned#8
spic
I personally feel that this is one rule that should stay. If the seller is not having luck selling their item, then it is now no hardship to close the thread and attempt to sell elsewhere (through fo.lk), whereas having an item being sold simultaneously between one or more places could potentially lead to a buyer being given the run around by the seller, as they have sold the item elsewhere.

It could also lead to a 'bidding war' where the seller plays off between two different buyers.


i agree
#9
boothy
A definite stay.

It can lead to a lot of time wasting and messing around as negotiations can be stopped midway if it sells somewhere else.

It would also lead to a lot of "its already upto £150 on ebay comments"

It will also lead to cross promotion of items on ebay.


Being on ebay or an auction site should still be disallowed (as they're contractually bound to sell it there after the first bid)
#10
jayjayuk1234
Well, i don't think you are looking at the whole picture here, if it is relaxed, i'm sure there will be additional rules applied to this which would prevent buyers getting the run around, after all, the seller wants the most he/she can get, and everyone else wants a bargain.

If a seller has clearly stated that it is listed elsewhere, perhaps we should be entitled to know exactly where else it is listed, and as i suggested, once the seller has accepted an offer, he/she then has to honour it, just my 2 cents.

I also don't think sellers should be able to have it on ebay etc whilst it is on here, since ebay is an auction site and you shouldnt really have it listed elsewhere if it is under auction anywhere.


relax one rule then make many other additional ones..whats the point of that?....would just lead to more confusion.

tbh I dont see any benefit from this whatsoever

this is one of the better rules and should stay
#11
boothy
relax one rule then make many other additional ones..whats the point of that?....would just lead to more confusion.

tbh I dont see any benefit from this whatsoever

this is one of the better rules and should stay


Well, no i didnt explain myself very well, i meant more of adding an exclusion, for example you can list it on gumtree, or wherever, but not ebay or other auction sites.
suspended#12
How about allowing to list on here and on a selected few other forums i.e avforums.

Links to those open sales have to be added to the op to show that it is for sale elsewhere and then you can see if any activity has gone on.
#13
Starr
How about allowing to list on here and on a selected few other forums i.e avforums.

Links to those open sales have to be added to the op to show that it is for sale elsewhere and then you can see if any activity has gone on.


AV does not allow you to list elsewhere(there is a 1 month ban for doing so),so do many others.

Would lead to a lot of inconvenience and potential scams,people selling at once on loads of sites and doing a runner(been done many times before),traders advertising lots of items all over the place as private sellers etc etc
#15
If someone is selling a Item on say ebay,But they get offered what they are asking for on here then I don't see why that would be or could be a problem.Yes ebay will lose Fee's & also paypal Fee's,But that's not HUKD's loss & if anything if you keep getting bigger on the selling fronts, the ebay may come to you to make a deal to get there Fee's back :w00t:
#16
I also think this rule should be left - agreeing with all of the above.
#17
+1 for not having it on auction sites but everything else is ok, ie fourms, gumtree,,, if theres 2 bids on different sites, its sellers choice at the end of the day, simple as,,, just get the seller to state wher else its posted b4 hand
suspended#18
boothy
AV does not allow you to list elsewhere(there is a 1 month ban for doing so),so do many others.

Would lead to a lot of inconvenience and potential scams,people selling at once on loads of sites and doing a runner(been done many times before),traders advertising lots of items all over the place as private sellers etc etc


Well if other sites are banning then there is no point in changing this whatsoever.

I think it would cause too much confusion as already mentioned
#19
boothy
AV does not allow you to list elsewhere(there is a 1 month ban for doing so),so do many others.

Would lead to a lot of inconvenience and potential scams,people selling at once on loads of sites and doing a runner(been done many times before),traders advertising lots of items all over the place as private sellers etc etc


+1 to Keep the rule.
#20
I would like this rule relaxed for Gumtree/similar definitely, but not ebay where contracts are formed onvce bids are placed and cross promoting - and not on other forums where negotitaions would be taking place in 2 places at the same time.
#21
think it should be allowed to post elsewhere,but that you must post the links as otherwise seller could say its selling better elsewhere,but if selling on ebay for example should be at a bin not an auction so people on here can see.
#22
I agree that items should be allowed on other forums, however not on ebay.

I have read things in this thread about bidding wars and people selling items twice etc, and to be honest, in all my experiences on forums (NTSC, RLLMUK, AVFORUMS etc) that allow multiple site selling I have NEVER come across this on any of them.

The simple fact is that those FS/FT forums are monitored and controlled properly, whereas here it seems to be more of a second thought, and the mods here are...well inconsistent, at best. Only in the last few days have I reported a particular thread twice for breaking the rules and nothing has been done about it.

IMHO, make it zero tolerance in regards to rules, ban those who flaunt them, get the decent traders together to help out the newer ones and make feedback compulsary (somehow) and with decent moderation, it might be worth having a FS/FT forum here.

I have to admit that of all the forums I have been on, this one has the greatest amount of dodgy transactions by far, and that can only be due to the fact that the mods and rules allow them rip people off. Try NTSC-UK and RLLMUK to see how this thing should be done.
banned#23
ASB could i ask why you think relaxing this is a good idea? what you think the pros and cons are?
#24
boothy
A definite stay.

It can lead to a lot of time wasting and messing around as negotiations can be stopped midway if it sells somewhere else.

It would also lead to a lot of "its already upto £150 on ebay comments"

It will also lead to cross promotion of items on ebay.


agreed

also we are not privvy to the amount of people guilty of this nor the work that is involved for the mods keeping track of checking, especially with the volume increase of items(if there has been, but i would imagine there has)
#25
There's other rules that should be priority. This one should stay its common sense, but price comparisons from traders/ebayers should be allowed.

Selling vouchers, or trading them for whatever you wish.
#26
Like I said above, the FS/FT forum seems to be more of an afterthought here, it really needs reform and re-structuring from top to bottom to fall into line with the more successful private trading forums out there.
banned#27
sassie;8836338
ASB could i ask why you think relaxing this is a good idea? what you think the pros and cons are?


I certainly can, however I did not wish to influence the discussion, leaving it open for members to give their views and then we'll form an opinion.

However since the question has been asked, I'll give my thoughts but this shouldn't be taken as a site preference or done deal.

[COLOR=SeaGreen]Pro's:
[/COLOR]
Sellers: A larger audience. I wouldn't expect them to be posting links to the item for sale elsewhere. I don't think allowing ebay auctions would stand. We wouldn't want to force others to break a 'contract'. It's not much to ask given that they would be allowed to list here.

Buyers: More threads/opportunities without having to trawl elsewhere.

Site: Increased activity within the forums.

[COLOR=DarkRed]Cons[/COLOR]:

Sellers: More management required.

Buyers: Unlikely to achieve at lowest possible price as seller may have other options.

Site: Frustrated members making a bid when a better offer has already been received elsewhere. Although this might make members pitch in at a sensible price rather than making low bids which are never likely to be successful (in effect a proxy bump and the inevitable decline of such an offer).


As no deal would be struck until buyer and seller agree, there shouldn't be too much of a risk re rogue traders. If one party reneges on a deal then our existing rules kick in. Full advice would/should always be followed.

Whilst appreciative of the support for retaining sales within fo.lk/hukd only, it can limit the opportunities for members regardless of buying/selling. However I wouldn't want the experience diluted if it meant the majority of threads here never reached a successful conclusion.

I'm totally open to the thoughts of all members and will review all comments made before making a case for change (or retaining the current situation).

#28
spic
I personally feel that this is one rule that should stay. If the seller is not having luck selling their item, then it is now no hardship to close the thread and attempt to sell elsewhere (through fo.lk), whereas having an item being sold simultaneously between one or more places could potentially lead to a buyer being given the run around by the seller, as they have sold the item elsewhere.

It could also lead to a 'bidding war' where the seller plays off between two different buyers.


boothy
A definite stay.

It can lead to a lot of time wasting and messing around as negotiations can be stopped midway if it sells somewhere else.

It would also lead to a lot of "its already upto £150 on ebay comments"

It will also lead to cross promotion of items on ebay.


^^^these I can't see any benefit to relaxing this rule.
banned#29
aScottishBloke

[COLOR=SeaGreen]Pro's:
[/COLOR]
Sellers: A larger audience. I wouldn't expect them to be posting links to the item for sale elsewhere.


Not commenting on anything else as you know my views (no to getting rid of the rulw), but if you do relax the rules then i think linking to other places its fs is an absolute must. Just simply to stop scammers selling the same thing 2 or 3 times, and to stop people saying i've been offered £50 elsewhere when in fact they've been offered £20
banned#30
i personally dont see this working out, i am totally confused to why the site are even considering this, not seen it moaned about anywhere reallly so whose idea is it
#31
aScottishBloke
Sorry about the temporary lock. I clicked the wrong option, meaning to subscribe not close.


LOL.....absolute class....:p

re the FS/FT - all rules should be scrapped with the exception of 4 rules

no business like selling/trading
no listing elsewhere
maintain bumping rule (should be reviewed tho)
RRP price comparison (should also be reviewed)


the above rules and a reasonable mod enforcing them should provide a very lucrative environment that users can sell or trade their items at a reasonable price dictated by them. all other issues can be managed and reported by the owner and viewers of the listing.

:thumbsup:
#32
sassie
i personally dont see this working out, i am totally confused to why the site are even considering this, not seen it moaned about anywhere reallly so whose idea is it


+1
banned#33
sassie;8836777
i personally dont see this working out, i am totally confused to why the site are even considering this, not seen it moaned about anywhere reallly so whose idea is it

I'll stick my hand up to this one. It's not a bad thing to review rules to confirm the relevancy of a rule to the current environment. I infracted someone earlier for selling in what appears to be a locally based website. The member didn't appear to be a scammer, nor did it look as if the member wanted to boost their infraction count. The member could have closed the thread(s) elsewhere, but would that have done justice to the membership here by infracting and preventing a possible sale for interested buyers? Had the member closed their listing elsewhere, they may have lost an opportunity to sell, albeit to a smaller audience.
#34
Using this thread as an example

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/698790/fs-imac17-intel-core2duo-350-00

People are clearly interested in item,seller then states she "has another couple of people coming to view it"....what happens if she agrees a deal on here,then people turn up at her house with cash after its been paid for on here?

lots of nightmare scenarios could arise

.
banned#35
aScottishBloke
I'll stick my hand up to this one. It's not a bad thing to review rules to confirm the relevancy of a rule to the current environment. I infracted someone earlier for selling in what appears to be a locally based website. The member didn't appear to be a scammer, nor did it look as if the member wanted to boost their infraction count. The member could have closed the thread(s) elsewhere, but would that have done justice to the membership here by infracting and preventing a possible sale for interested buyers?


its a shame that all rules cant be reviewed then, i dont think many who list here and elsewhere are out to scam and never have been, what about all those who have received infractions and suspension before this one today, did it never cross your mind then? Most of the rules are dated and confusing, maybe better time would be spent in sorting the entire fs board out rather than just the one
banned#36
sassie;8836978
its a shame that all rules cant be reviewed then, i dont think many who list here and elsewhere are out to scam and never have been, what about all those who have received infractions and suspension before this one today, did it never cross your mind then? Most of the rules are dated and confusing, maybe better time would be spent in sorting the entire fs board out rather than just the one


It's about reviewing the current rules to see if they are still relevant. What has happened in the past stands. As the rules are being continually reviewed I made it clear that I wanted to address this issue. Others have already been commented on and we'll take this into account prior to the next review of the trading rules.
banned#37
boothy;8836975
Using this thread as an example

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/698790/fs-imac17-intel-core2duo-350-00

People are clearly interested in item,seller then states she "has another couple of people coming to view it"....what happens if she agrees a deal on here,then people turn up at her house with cash after its been paid for on here?

lots of nightmare scenarios could arise

.

I don't think this increases the chance of a member(s) getting scammed if they follow the trading advice in full. It puts more of an emphasis on the OP to manage their threads. The scenario you highlight is always a possibility with the limited info we have reported to us.
#38
aScottishBloke
I don't think this increases the chance of a member(s) getting scammed if they follow the trading advice in full. It puts more of an emphasis on the OP to manage their threads. The scenario you highlight is always a possibility with the limited info we have reported to us.


Disgree tbh,will leave the site more open to scammers and traders and will increase the amount of dissatisfied buyers on there...the benefit to the seller will be negligible....

Its ok to say that people need to manage their threads better but half of them cant with this rule in place,having to manage offers in 3 different forums would be chaotic and difficult even to experienced traders.

The amount of moderation required would probably increase in the long run,due to the chaos it will cause imo
#39
I think the rules should stay as they are, as if listed on here and else where it leads to the opportunity for some people to double sell increasing the danger of people getting ripped off, though some/most members wouldn't do this unfortunately there are scammers about who no doubt would try to take advantage of this ;)
banned#40
aScottishBloke
It's about [B]reviewing the current rules to see if they are still relevant. What has happened in the past stands. As the rules are being continually reviewed I made it clear that I wanted to address this issue. Others have already been commented on and we'll take this into account prior to the next review of the trading rules.[/B]


i wasnt saying what has happened in the past shouldnt stand, just found it strange that one thread today should lead you to review one rule, you only have to look through feedback to see what members would like to see reviewed and changed, this sounds like one of those "opinions please" threads that has already been decided upon anyway


what do you mean at the next review, i thought thats what this thread was
:thinking:


i also think this change, will encourage bidding wars and as for buyers i think most will feel they are wasting their time

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