What does it take to get a ripper banned on here! - HotUKDeals
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banned#1
So Eckofan rips people off a couple of years back, does it again recently, and tries again today, and still he's only suspended. I mean, seriously.

Thread below closed, the mod says a report might be better, but why when the mods were aware of him 18 months ago!

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/692203/can-action-be-taken-please

Thread below closed with no action

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/691426/seller-beware

Threads below from 2008

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/289658/attn-eckofan

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/288428/do-not-deal-with-the-member-eckofan?

the second one again had mod input, so they were aware at least 18 months ago he ripped people off and he's still doing it now!
#2
If he is abusing the pm system to stealth rip people off then he should be banned surely. It's all well and good saying read the rules, but people will fall for it sadly. If he is known as an active pm scammer then remove his pm ability/ban I would have thought.
#3
Obviously more than scamming members!
banned#4
you can keep banning them but the blyters come back, when will members stop handing over cash to complete strangers
#5
colinsunderland;8757735
So Eckofan rips people off a couple of years back, does it again recently, and tries again today, and still he's only suspended. I mean, seriously...


Agree, and I don't agree with AndyWedge's "maybe a report would have been better" sentiment - I don't agree with the mentality of sweeping scammers under the carpet and hiding them from the masses in that way, and I applaud the OP of that thread for making it....
banned#6
banned now, wonder why it took 18 months?

andy, why would a report have been better? If that was always done no one would be able to find out that someone was dodgy?
Or maybe it was that no one would have found out that you were aware of this ripper 18 months ago and never bothered doing anything about it, therefore allowing others to lose money?
[mod]#7
colinsunderland
banned now, wonder why it took 18 months?

andy, why would a report have been better? If that was always done no one would be able to find out that someone was dodgy?
Or maybe it was that no one would have found out that you were aware of this ripper 18 months ago and never bothered doing anything about it, therefore allowing others to lose money?


A report would have been better because it would have come to the mods; I don't see every thread; and as AF says, I've been busy sorting out the kids on misc again. The thread is still there for others to see - I didn't spam it.

With regards to what happened 18 months ago I am unable to comment as I was not a mod.

This "ripper" has only resurfaced in the last few weeks and if members are dealing via PM it's abit tricky for us to see what's going on and protect members from being scammed. Hate to sound harsh, but I will - that's why we have FS rules - and if member choose to ignore/break them they risk being scammed

Anyway; he/they are now banned - but we need enough evidence to ban someone. If we banned members straight away for a first offence then how many people would be left who use FS? So my guess is that is why nothing was done 18 months ago
#8
Can we get Sanzy banned?

He/she has taken a few people on here as well.
#9
andywedge;8757887
A report would have been better because it would have come to the mods; I don't see every thread; and as AF says, I've been busy sorting out the kids on misc again. The thread is still there for others to see - I didn't spam it.

With regards to what happened 18 months ago I am unable to comment as I was not a mod.

This "ripper" has only resurfaced in the last few weeks and if members are dealing via PM it's abit tricky for us to see what's going on and protect members from being scammed. Hate to sound harsh, but I will - that's why we have FS rules - and if member choose to ignore/break them they risk being scammed

Anyway; he/they are now banned - but we need enough evidence to ban someone. If we banned members straight away for a first offence then how many people would be left who use FS? So my guess is that is why nothing was done 18 months ago


I disagree with the first part - a thread (in feedback) will be seen by both mods and members, and such a thread lead to the OP of the most recent thread making their post, which ultimately led to the member being banned. If someone else hadn't made a thread, by all accounts the OP of the most recent thread may have just ignored the PM {yes they could have also reported it to make sure it was seen ASAP, but the way you worded it suggests you think the thread shouldn't have been made and just a report made}.

Could something not be done to 'secure up' the PM system - I can't see any reason why a member would want to send a member a PM whom they have never conversed with already on a thread...
#10
this was a girl it seems going by the links above from a few years ago...or someone posing as a then 18 year old female who saw the error of her ways after photo was posted up and refunded the people she'd attempted to scam,

strange she didn't learn from that and now appears to be trying it again,hmm :?
[mod]#11
I've moved this to "feedback" as I think it's better suited here and as it's a serious issue I think having this in Misc will attract off topic posts and I'd rather see a proper discussion rather than wade through off topic posts

jah128, yes a mod will see it wherever posted eventually but reports are a lot more instant; yeah my wording was off target - I don't have a problem with the thread so perhaps a report at the same time would have been better

The message about dealing via PM is loud and clear though - Don't do it
banned#12
colinsunderland;8757735

Thread below closed, the mod says a report might be better, but why when the mods were aware of him 18 months ago!

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/692203/can-action-be-taken-please


A report will receive the most urgent attention, it's the source that all mods review constantly and is the recommended option for a speedy response.


colinsunderland;8757735

Thread below closed with no action

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/691426/seller-beware


A clear direction to the OP to get in touch and report their concerns directly as per recommended procedure. No further details have since been received. I'd disagree with your statement of 'No Action'.


colinsunderland;8757735


A thread placed in Misc and unlikely to have been 'spotted' by mods. Reporting the actual thread in question is the recommended procedure.


colinsunderland;8757735

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/288428/do-not-deal-with-the-member-eckofan?

the second one again had mod input, so they were aware at least 18 months ago he ripped people off and he's still doing it now!


I must be blind, I can't see any mod input. No doubt I'll be corrected, but I did look. However it's yet another thread posted in Misc.


jah128;8757776
Agree, and I don't agree with AndyWedge's "maybe a report would have been better" sentiment - I don't agree with the mentality of sweeping scammers under the carpet and hiding them from the masses in that way, and I applaud the OP of that thread for making it....


A report would be better, we can deal with it a lot quicker than posting in Feedback. We do not attempt to sweep scammers under the carpet, we're quite proactive in our attempts to eliminate them at the earliest opportunity. We do rely on members to get in touch with concerns and I've indicated the preferred route for such notifications. Admin has added additional mod resources covering the timeline of links/concerns posted earlier. We remain committed to making the trading forums as safe as we can. Members trading without following the full trading rules and advice will potentially expose themselves to greater risk. I don't think it's acceptable that members attempt to absolve their responsibilities or pass the buck by their failure to follow trading guidance.

colinsunderland;8757800
banned now, wonder why it took 18 months?

andy, why would a report have been better? If that was always done no one would be able to find out that someone was dodgy?
Or maybe it was that no one would have found out that you were aware of this ripper 18 months ago and never bothered doing anything about it, therefore allowing others to lose money?


As above, report and we will action. Members responding to unsolicited pm's offering trades should be fully aware of the rules prior to any listing. Members must take full responsibility for their trades, blaming others for subsequent rule breaking is not acceptable.


jah128;8757939
I disagree with the first part - a thread (in feedback) will be seen by both mods and members, and such a thread lead to the OP of the most recent thread making their post, which ultimately led to the member being banned. If someone else hadn't made a thread, by all accounts the OP of the most recent thread may have just ignored the PM {yes they could have also reported it to make sure it was seen ASAP, but the way you worded it suggests you think the thread shouldn't have been made and just a report made}.

Could something not be done to 'secure up' the PM system - I can't see any reason why a member would want to send a member a PM whom they have never conversed with already on a thread...


Reporting is the preferred method of communicating suspect activity to mods. Feedback should not be used to highlight alleged individual rule breakers. We deal with reports very quickly and will action as appropriate.

Again, I can't stress highly enough how important it is that members ensure they are self protected as much as possible. Lets assume the member was banned immediately, given the fact that only 1 or 2 posts were ever made by the member. how would banning prevent this person from contacting via a new account and pm'ing other members. We make it inconvenient for determined spammers/scammers, however this is often not enough to prevent a return under another alias, hence why members must always take the ultimate responsibility for any actions here.
banned#13
I wanted to report the PM, but the report button was missing:

http://i46.tinypic.com/28k4qw6.png

In fact the report button is missing from all PMs I have received. Is there another way to report a PM for future reference? Many thanks.
banned#14
Hi,

There is not a direct mechanism for reporting PM's. As it related to a thread you created, please consider using the report options contained within.
#15
tinkerbell28
If he is abusing the pm system to stealth rip people off then he should be banned surely. It's all well and good saying read the rules, but people will fall for it sadly. If he is known as an active pm scammer then remove his pm ability/ban I would have thought.


think its time BOTH parties dealing via pm were banned-not just the scammer,but the "innocent party" who got ripped,but happily broke the rules-if people deal via pm then they cant leave negative feedback to warn others about scammers.
#16
OP,apart from picking fault with peoples posts and constantly trying to find problems with mods and the policies of the site,can you please explain why you use HUKD please?

I cannot recall a post you have ever made that has not contained a moan,although I am happy to be corrected.

Thanks

btw mods have acted quite correctly on this occasion,if you actually used FS/FT you would have a much better idea of how it operates
banned#17
boothy;8758413
OP,apart from picking fault with peoples posts and constantly trying to find problems with mods and the policies of the site,can you please explain why you use HUKD please?

I cannot recall a post you have ever made that has not contained a moan,although I am happy to be corrected.


Thanks

btw mods have acted quite correctly on this occasion,if you actually used FS/FT you would have a much better idea of how it operates

to be fair, I think you are completely wrong here. Do a search on most of COlin's comments and you'll see he mostly is giving helpful advice.

anyway, people in glass houses and all that..............:thumbsup::-D
banned#18
boothy
OP,apart from picking fault with peoples posts and constantly trying to find problems with mods and the policies of the site,can you please explain why you use HUKD please?

I cannot recall a post you have ever made that has not contained a moan,although I am happy to be corrected.

Thanks

btw mods have acted quite correctly on this occasion,if you actually used FS/FT you would have a much better idea of how it operates


how about you read some of the ones you obviously haven't read then? Find members other posts will help with that.

As regards mods/policies, if I see something wrong then I will say so, whats wrong with that?

I fail to see how mods have acted correctly in this case, can you explain what the proceedure is for someone who rips many people, why they don't get banned and left to be able to do it again 18 months later?
banned#19
Why has Conscept not been banned? http://www.hotukdeals.com/profile/144192

Ripped off a couple of people and I reported it at the time with no response or action from the mods and again yesterday as I seen he had posted recently. Mods say to users that they should report this sort of thing instead of starting threads but when I do you do naff all and only seem to help the people who shout the louest and do exactly what you say we shouldn't be starting threads. Its a joke
#20
aScottishBloke;8758252
A report would be better, we can deal with it a lot quicker than posting in Feedback. We do not attempt to sweep scammers under the carpet, we're quite proactive in our attempts to eliminate them at the earliest opportunity. We do rely on members to get in touch with concerns and I've indicated the preferred route for such notifications. Admin has added additional mod resources covering the timeline of links/concerns posted earlier. We remain committed to making the trading forums as safe as we can. Members trading without following the full trading rules and advice will potentially expose themselves to greater risk. I don't think it's acceptable that members attempt to absolve their responsibilities or pass the buck by their failure to follow trading guidance.


I don't agree, as there have been examples in the past where members who clearly shouldn't be trading have continued to trade, exposing site members to risk. If people are breaking trading rules by trading via PM and scamming people - why shouldn't that information be made public?

aScottishBloke;8758252
Lets assume the member was banned immediately, given the fact that only 1 or 2 posts were ever made by the member. how would banning prevent this person from contacting via a new account and pm'ing other members. We make it inconvenient for determined spammers/scammers, however this is often not enough to prevent a return under another alias, hence why members must always take the ultimate responsibility for any actions here.


So improve the security of the registration and PM system. Why can a new member send an unsolicited PM? That is asking for abuse (be it trading outside rules or spamming people). At least by having the thread in feedback Andy gets to ask people to send reports if anyone receives a dodgy PM - makes me wonder just how many PM's are sent which break rules which go unreported....
banned#21
colinsunderland;8758542
how about you read some of the ones you obviously haven't read then? Find members other posts will help with that.

As regards mods/policies, if I see something wrong then I will say so, whats wrong with that?

I fail to see how mods have acted correctly in this case, can you explain what the proceedure is for someone who rips many people, why they don't get banned and left to be able to do it again 18 months later?


As before, I'm not sure at what point you state the mods are aware of the volume of trades in dispute. Misc threads have a high possibility of going unread and it looks to me as if that was the case. It's not worth dwelling on what happened 18 months ago in this specific example, otherwise certain members will still attempt to use this as a valid deflection for failing to follow the trading requirements.


jah128;8759464
I don't agree, as there have been examples in the past where members who clearly shouldn't be trading have continued to trade, exposing site members to risk. If people are breaking trading rules by trading via PM and scamming people - why shouldn't that information be made public?

So improve the security of the registration and PM system. Why can a new member send an unsolicited PM? That is asking for abuse (be it trading outside rules or spamming people). At least by having the thread in feedback Andy gets to ask people to send reports if anyone receives a dodgy PM - makes me wonder just how many PM's are sent which break rules which go unreported....


You might not agree with the request to report but that's the only way we can deal with member concerns in an efficient manner. Anything else runs the risk of being missed. I've already advised that determined scammers/rogue traders will find a way to return, therefore the final responsibility will always rest with the members involved. Feedback is not appropriate to highlight when members breach rules, nor should the members focus be diverted away from trading rules and guidance.

As for volume of PM's which break rules, we'll never know. We don't have access to them. However we do receive reports of attempted pm dealing and action as and when appropriate. I believe the majority of members adhere to the rules hence the relatively low volume of reports received relating to this particular point.
banned#22
Paddy Charlie;8758661
Why has Conscept not been banned? http://www.hotukdeals.com/profile/144192

Ripped off a couple of people and I reported it at the time with no response or action from the mods and again yesterday as I seen he had posted recently. Mods say to users that they should report this sort of thing instead of starting threads but when I do you do naff all and only seem to help the people who shout the louest and do exactly what you say we shouldn't be starting threads. Its a joke


We really do deal with a large volume. As we don't have all the facts at hand we sometimes ensure that members are talking to each other in an attempt to resolve, rather than ignoring comms.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/510033/fs-playstation-3-80gb-reserved-for-

Take this thread, you've been involved, we reviewed asked the members to sort and report back if still an issue. My closing comment in that thread refers. As far as I can see that remains the latest position.

That said, we haven't had confirmation either way regarding the outcome, hence the reason that the request to cease trading remained in place. As the member posted again on 11 May 2010, we decided to permanently restrict trading access.
banned#23
in fairness I have dealt with Conscept and found him to be a nice guy with great comms. Others have too. Perhaps his health issues are a very real problem
banned#24
this will continue to happen whilst members expect mods to wipe their bottoms, members take responsibility for what happens on here and we will start to see less scammers, or ignore it and carry on as you do and see one of these threads in misc or feedback every few days, their is only so much one can help
banned#25
sassie;8759961
this will continue to happen whilst members expect mods to wipe their bottoms, members take responsibility for what happens on here and we will start to see less scammers, or ignore it and carry on as you do and see one of these threads in misc or feedback every few days, their is only so much one can help


but its mostly new members affected. Only way to stop it all is to close down FS
#26
aScottishBloke;8759849
You might not agree with the request to report but that's the only way we can deal with member concerns in an efficient manner. Anything else runs the risk of being missed. I've already advised that determined scammers/rogue traders will find a way to return, therefore the final responsibility will always rest with the members involved. Feedback is not appropriate to highlight when members breach rules, nor should the members focus be diverted away from trading rules and guidance.


I not saying not to report - but I think in instances like issued yesterday, having a public thread does help (so should exist in addition to the report).

aScottishBloke;8759849
As for volume of PM's which break rules, we'll never know. We don't have access to them. However we do receive reports of attempted pm dealing and action as and when appropriate. I believe the majority of members adhere to the rules hence the relatively low volume of reports received relating to this particular point.


Majority is irrelevant here; the question is how many members do attempt to deal by PM or send unsolicited PM's, and how many recipients know the correct action is to report any they receive. My guess is the former is probably higher that you expect, and the latter is a lot lower (which might explain why you don't receive that many reports). The fact there isn't a simple way to report an unsolicited PM (along with the code of conduct being so damn hard to find!) might certainly deter a typical member from reporting such a message...

Its all very well repeating endlessly 'if people followed all the rules they wouldn't get burned' etc but there comes a point where you have to consider if you are making it a bit too easy for scammers. For example, it would presumably be possible to add a warning to the top of all private messages (akin to the warning on the FS/FT pages) to simply say something like "Warning: Never enter into a trade via PM, all offers and acceptances must be within a FS/FT thread. Please report any unsolicited PM's" ...
banned#27
ODB_69
but its mostly new members affected. Only way to stop it all is to close down FS


the guidelines are there for all to follow, only yesterday after being scammed by someone on here already i saw the same member on here being scammed again by pm, how many times can you get scammed before you cotton on

you can see from hundreds of members feedback on here, that follow the guidelines, use common sense and you will be ok, ignore it all and get scammed, no different to life off the boards really
banned#28
All threads in fs/ft carry the warning (and links) to review rules/advice (you don't need to review the code of conduct to appreciate the trading rules). It would be unwise to suggest that we only highlight 1 or 2 as being of primary importance. I don't think we make it easy at all for scammers, quite the opposite given the limited info available and the dedicated resources attached to the forums.
banned#29
tbf I cant see this getting better, only worse with the growth of the site and Fo.lk. Mods can only do so much to stop scammers but stupidity prevails unfortunately and mods cant fix that!
banned#30
aScottishBloke
We really do deal with a large volume. As we don't have all the facts at hand we sometimes ensure that members are talking to each other in an attempt to resolve, rather than ignoring comms.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/510033/fs-playstation-3-80gb-reserved-for-

Take this thread, you've been involved, we reviewed asked the members to sort and report back if still an issue. My closing comment in that thread refers. As far as I can see that remains the latest position.

That said, we haven't had confirmation either way regarding the outcome, hence the reason that the request to cease trading remained in place. As the member posted again on 11 May 2010, we decided to permanently restrict trading access.


That last comment was aimed at strike but I had still reported after it that I still had no contact from him but never got a responce. I didn't start a new thread or but posted in the thread I was ripped off in and reported it as that is the way mods say you are supposed to do it.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/506224/for-sale-3-blurays-for-15?page=2

So he has robbed my money and probably strike's as well but he is still allowed be a member of the site? Not exactly fair is it? As if I start postig on threads he posts on asking for my money or calling him a robber then I will get infracted for thread spoiling
banned#31
Paddy Charlie;8760354
That last comment was aimed at strike but I had still reported after it that I still had no contact from him but never got a responce. I didn't start a new thread or but posted in the thread I was ripped off in and reported it as that is the way mods say you are supposed to do it.

So he has robbed my money and probably strike's as well but he is still allowed be a member of the site? Not exactly fair is it? As if I start postig on threads he posts on asking for my money or calling him a robber then I will get infracted for thread spoiling


An update was asked for and it appears not to have been received. Not much more we could do with the limited info other than using a 'trading' suspension as an incentive to comply. The onus was on the members involved to update otherwise our previous decision stands.
banned#32
aScottishBloke


An update was asked for and it appears not to have been received. Not much more we could do with the limited info other than using a 'trading' suspension as an incentive to comply. The onus was on the members involved to update otherwise our previous decision stands.


An update is required? I had updated it http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/506224/for-sale-3-blurays-for-15?page=2 and reported it back in November but no reply from mods and nothing was done. And I'd even reported again a month or so after that asking for him to be banned with no response, not even a 'we are looking into it' from the mods. The only time we get a response from mods is when we create a thread about it and even then they say we should be reporting it.

Why should someone who is known to have stolen money from another member still be allowed to be a member of the site? You can even see from the thread and strikes thread the amount that we tried to contact him even to the point he had 48 missed calls between me and strike. And he has still refused to contact me about it
#33
people on here need to take some responsibility and not expect the mods to clean up their mess

look at this thread,it beggars belief how thick people can be at times,still wanting to trade with a member who is about to be subject to a trading ban and despite specific mod advice not to

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/691886/swap-my-fully-modded-white-wii-for-
banned#34
boothy
people on here need to take some responsibility and not expect the mods to clean up their mess

look at this thread,it beggars belief how thick people can be at times,still wanting to trade with a member who is about to be subject to a trading ban and despite specific mod advice not to

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/691886/swap-my-fully-modded-white-wii-for-


it beggars belief
banned#35
Paddy Charlie;8760495
An update is required? I had updated it http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/506224/for-sale-3-blurays-for-15?page=2 and reported it back in November but no reply from mods and nothing was done. And I'd even reported again a month or so after that asking for him to be banned with no response, not even a 'we are looking into it' from the mods. The only time we get a response from mods is when we create a thread about it and even then they say we should be reporting it.

Why should someone who is known to have stolen money from another member still be allowed to be a member of the site? You can even see from the thread and strikes thread the amount that we tried to contact him even to the point he had 48 missed calls between me and strike. And he has still refused to contact me about it



Your 1st para is not an accurate reflection of events. You seen my response. We responded to your last report of 30 October 2009 and the thread reflects this. We gave an instruction and that's the last we've heard of this via reports. Your final sentence is an untrue generalisation which deflects away from the points raised.

If you don't report your threads and provide an update I'd say it's unreasonable that you expect us to do the same.
#36
what I don't get is if a user has done something or things serious enough to warrant a full trading ban then why are they not banned from the site completely?
banned#37
What are you on about not accurate? You did respond on my thread after my 1st report in October but the issue wasn't resolved as can be seen in the thread and I had no answer to any later reports.I reported about this issue in November, then a month or two later(As I could see he was logging in but not replying to PMs) and just the other day. And the final sentance is true in my case, although you did respond on my thread after my 1st report the issue wasn't resolved as can be seen in the thread and I had no answer to any later reports.

I know I have lost my money, I followed all the rules and I still got scammed(which I know there is always a risk of) but what I am unhappy with is the fact that the user who robbed me and hasn't even got the bottle to repond or pick up his phone at the time is still allowed to post freely on the forum
banned#38
ants97;8760817
what I don't get is if a user has done something or things serious enough to warrant a full trading ban then why are they not banned from the site completely?


Good point, let me address it.

Trading bans are put in place when sellers repeatedly breach the trading rules. We do allow limited access to remain, quite often as it's the only means of communications available to the other member. I'm still surprised at the lack of verified info that is exchanged for some trades after agreement to deal.

We will always attempt to moderate in the best interests of all members.
banned#39
ants97
what I don't get is if a user has done something or things serious enough to warrant a full trading ban then why are they not banned from the site completely?


In the hope that whilst they remain on the boards there is a chance of them putting right what has been done, by a forum ban this means that there can be no contact whatsoever on hukd and as most dont even get a name let alone a number a full ban wipes out all hope

well i think thats the idea
banned#40
Paddy Charlie;8760866
What are you on about not accurate? You did respond on my thread after my 1st report in October but the issue wasn't resolved as can be seen in the thread and I had no answer to any later reports.I reported about this issue in November, then a month or two later(As I could see he was logging in but not replying to PMs) and just the other day. And the final sentance is true in my case, although you did respond on my thread after my 1st report the issue wasn't resolved as can be seen in the thread and I had no answer to any later reports.

I know I have lost my money, I followed all the rules and I still got scammed(which I know there is always a risk of) but what I am unhappy with is the fact that the user who robbed me and hasn't even got the bottle to repond or pick up his phone at the time is still allowed to post freely on the forum


PC,

Your last report on this thread was dated 30 October 2009. Whilst we responded in the thread, it's up to the members to keep us updated. We ensured comms were in place and have heard nothing since via reports. I've checked this personally so stand by my comments.

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