Why do we even need cold voting??? - HotUKDeals
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#1
Whoops, meant to post in feedback.
#2
i think this is a good idea.
[admin]#3
A cold does two things. It shows what is a real stinker and it lets people knock down a temp which is too high.
#4
having the cold vote keeps people on their toes.
#5
Admin
A cold does two things. It shows what is a real stinker and it lets people knock down a temp which is too high.


Agreed, but it also allows people to vote good deals cold as they don't want others getting in on them.

Wii fits for example are often voted cold as other people want to get in there first and don't want other people getting them.

A temp that is too high doesn't really get knocked down does it? Once a deal has started going in one direction it'll generally keep going in that direction. Even if it's realised that the deal is now a stinker, all the people who were interested have already voted so can't change their vote to cold.

Maybe that could be changed, so people could change their votes?

Getting rid of cold would basically force people to leave a comment if they genuinly didn't like a deal rather then just hitting cold.
[admin]#6
I think the other thing to consider is we need to make sure the vote is as equal as possible for promotion and demotion of deals. If it was just possible to heat up then we'd likely get accused of rigging it to make deals look hotter then they are.
#7
People also voted cold for silly things like the price not being put in the title, this means that a good deal could look like a bad one and there are no comments saying why so people don't know why.
#8
Admin
I think the other thing to consider is we need to make sure the vote is as equal as possible for promotion and demotion of deals. If it was just possible to heat up then we'd likely get accused of rigging it to make deals look hotter then they are.


Fair point.

What I'm trying to say though is a rubbish deal would stay at zero, or at least near to zero, in other words cold. If people like it then it will get voted hot and once it reaches 50 for example people would consider it a good deal.
[admin]#9
Well one thing I think is good is right now if you see something near zero it either means it's middling or it's ignored. At least the freezing ones you know are definitely rubbish (or quite likely). If they were all at zero then it's harder to know what's definitely purposefully cold and what is just ignored.
banned#10
but wouldnt all recent deals look like stinkers as they would be on zero?
#11
Admin
Well one thing I think is good is right now if you see something near zero it either means it's middling or it's ignored. At least the freezing ones you know are definitely rubbish (or quite likely). If they were all at zero then it's harder to know what's definitely purposefully cold and what is just ignored.


Yep, but a rubbish one would have a few comments in it to say it's rubbish. So you'd know from the comments that it's rubbish, whereas at the moment you can just see it's cold as most people just vote cold rather than leave a comment. But if it's cold then it could be that it's rubbish or it could be because people have voted cold as the price wasn't in the title for example.

It's not a perfect idea but I was trying to find a way to stop cold voting on good deals and effectively force people to leave a comment if they think the deal is actually cold.
#12
csiman
but wouldnt all recent deals look like stinkers as they would be on zero?

I suppose, but the true cold deals would have comments to say they were cold. New ones wouldn't have any comments yet.
#13
I think you should ONLY be allowed to vote cold if you leave a comment.

No comment, no vote cold.

Recently Sainsbury's were selling Verbatim CD and DVDs cheaply and one person put details of ONE of the boxes of DVDs and it went up to over 100 degrees hot.

I went to Sainsbury's and wrote down details of ALL the Verbatim CDs and DVDs they were selling, and loads of people voted it cold without leaving any comments.

I still have no idea why.

My deal voted minus
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/236236/verbatim-cds-and-dvds-half-price-in/

Other similar deal voted hot
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/230455/verbatim-16x-dvd-r-43548-50-pack-fo/
#14
guilbert53
I think you should ONLY be allowed to vote cold if you leave a comment.

No comment, no vote cold.

Recently Sainsbury's were selling Verbatim CD and DVDs cheaply and one person put details of ONE of the boxes of DVDs and it went up to over 100 degrees hot.

I went to Sainsbury's and wrote down details of ALL the Verbatim CDs and DVDs they were selling, and loads of people voted it cold without leaving any comments.

I still have no idea why.

My deal voted minus
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/236236/verbatim-cds-and-dvds-half-price-in/

Other similar deal voted hot
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/230455/verbatim-16x-dvd-r-43548-50-pack-fo/



My point exactly!
[mod]#15
Why not get rid of voting hot as well?

If like you say that people can just read it for themselves etc then do away with the voting altogether and it stops all the moaning about cold deals and also stops a lot of the dupes etc because people won't be hunting the hot temperature glory so much.
#16
Admin
A cold does two things. It shows what is a real stinker and it lets people knock down a temp which is too high.


i agree. i would like it to stay
#17
Cold voting definitely has a place. Especially on the simpering types that say "please be gentle, this is my first post". Why should we be gentle? Your deal will be assessed on it's merits, not just because you've finally plucked up the courage to post something.

For those that complain that their deal got voted cold, while a similar one got hot. Life is unfair. Voting is unfair. People are fickle.
#18
Syzable
Why not get rid of voting hot as well?

If like you say that people can just read it for themselves etc then do away with the voting altogether and it stops all the moaning about cold deals and also stops a lot of the dupes etc because people won't be hunting the hot temperature glory so much.


Good point, but people don't vote hot for the wrong reason. People vote cold for the wrong reasons sometimes.
[admin]#19
I think people vote hot for the wrong reasons also. It cuts both ways it's just that people don't complain if their deal goes hot for no reason.
#20
Admin
I think people vote hot for the wrong reasons also. It cuts both ways it's just that people don't complain if their deal goes hot for no reason.


Why would people vote hot for the wrong reason?

People vote cold as they don't like the way it was posted or the price was missing from the title. People don't vote hot for those reasons.
#21
Benjimoron;2927581
Why would people vote hot for the wrong reason?

People vote cold as they don't like the way it was posted or the price was missing from the title. People don't vote hot for those reasons.


Yes they do - I've seen people vote hot for well structured deals before. People vote for fickle reasons, but on balance the system works. The small minority who cold vote for no reason will likely have little weight behind their votes anyway, and risk suspension if found to do it without reason.

Also whilst its courteous to leave a reason when voting cold, it would be terrible if you had to as then many people would be saying the same thing repeatedly - if its cheaper else where, does the OP really want to be reminded of that 20 times?

Its also important to remember that some deals may only be average yet will appeal to the masses, whereas some may be niche products and very good deals but only appeal to a select few. Such deals tend to not get too hot, but it is clear they are not cold deals.

As a final thought though, I do think the idea of capping a deals temperature range should be considered - there is no need for deals to be registered colder than absolute zero or hotter than the sun (talking about Pauls Wii thread breaking the style sheet :-D). Personally I'd limit the cold to -20 or so - that way nobody should get too offended or upset about there deal getting extremely cold... (I'd also make the voting non-linear so one cold vote might reduce by ten degrees on a scorching hot deal but by a single degree on those already below zero...)
#22
guilbert53
I think you should ONLY be allowed to vote cold if you leave a comment.

No comment, no vote cold.

Recently Sainsbury's were selling Verbatim CD and DVDs cheaply and one person put details of ONE of the boxes of DVDs and it went up to over 100 degrees hot.

I went to Sainsbury's and wrote down details of ALL the Verbatim CDs and DVDs they were selling, and loads of people voted it cold without leaving any comments.

I still have no idea why.

My deal voted minus
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/236236/verbatim-cds-and-dvds-half-price-in/

Other similar deal voted hot
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/230455/verbatim-16x-dvd-r-43548-50-pack-fo/


My only reason I can think of is that it was partially posted before so the first few votes were cold. People have then either followed suit or not had the balls to vote hot as it's been considered a cold deal.

Unless anyone has another reason?

This is the kind of thing I'm trying to stop happening.
#23
A couple of good ideas there jah.
#24
jah128
As a final thought though, I do think the idea of capping a deals temperature range should be considered - there is no need for deals to be registered colder than absolute zero or hotter than the sun (talking about Pauls Wii thread breaking the style sheet :-D). Personally I'd limit the cold to -20 or so - that way nobody should get too offended or upset about there deal getting extremely cold... (I'd also make the voting non-linear so one cold vote might reduce by ten degrees on a scorching hot deal but by a single degree on those already below zero...)


I think this is a good idea.:thumbsup:
#25
There are users who post cold because the user is defending the product. Even asking in a thread why the deal is cold is enough to get a deal expired. I posted a thread yesterday: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/240354/brand-new-hp-branded-laptop-rucksac
and asked why it was voted cold? This led to one particular forum troll voting cold. The same troll who votes cold in other threads for the same reason. I also believe (can't prove unfortunately) that he and others were responsible for the expiration of a deal just because the op defended the deal.
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/236465/monkey-dvd-box-set-complete-series-/
That deal has been unexpired now but the following has been expired even though its valid until the end of September: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/239624/ebay-on-your-mobile-and-free-text-a.

Personally, I think voting cold should need a reason to avoid fraud votes and expiration. People who abuse the voting system should be suspended and it should be made known to the mods who expired a deal so if it's expired out of spite then they'll know.
#26
Cold voting is good,

Imagine you had brought a product from company "x", you experienced a problem with their after sales service or customer care and decided you wanted to transmit this information in an attention seeking manner. The cold vote is perfect, if you feel you need to explain further then you can by putting a detail post in, but, the sign of a blue icy counter is enough for me to say "can't be bothered, just move on"

*xxgunnerxX*
#27
amcdermo;2932888
People who abuse the voting system should be suspended and it should be made known to the mods who expired a deal so if it's expired out of spite then they'll know.


They are, and they do :thumbsup:

If you think someone is deliberately voting cold without due reason or wrongly expiring deals, report the thread to a moderator - action is taken - and don't take it too personally/seriously, there is more to life than having a deal voted cold! :)


The needing a reason idea has been suggested so many times, and whilst in principle it may sound good that a cold vote necessitates that a reason is given, often a (good and valid) reason is given by one voter and others agree - as much as it is irritating to see a deal voted cold, it would be worse if its voted cold and the same reason is repeated over and over again - alike rubbing salt into the wounds...
#28
amcdermo
There are users who post cold because the user is defending the product. Even asking in a thread why the deal is cold is enough to get a deal expired. I posted a thread yesterday: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/240354/brand-new-hp-branded-laptop-rucksac
and asked why it was voted cold? This led to one particular forum troll voting cold. The same troll who votes cold in other threads for the same reason. I also believe (can't prove unfortunately) that he and others were responsible for the expiration of a deal just because the op defended the deal.
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/236465/monkey-dvd-box-set-complete-series-/
That deal has been unexpired now but the following has been expired even though its valid until the end of September: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/239624/ebay-on-your-mobile-and-free-text-a.

Personally, I think voting cold should need a reason to avoid fraud votes and expiration. People who abuse the voting system should be suspended and it should be made known to the mods who expired a deal so if it's expired out of spite then they'll know.


I think the above has its roots set in good compost.

With a little redesign of the site, you could force everyone to have to qualify a cold vote by launching a popup that states "please state the reason for your cold vote" if you state no reason you cannot lodge a cold vote.

If you try to be arsey and just put in something that is meaningless forum users can then see and ignore it.

*XxgunnerxX*
#29
Don't think you should have to give a reason ... as previous post said, you'd end up with dozens of posts all saying the same thing.

But how about a rationing cold votes (or all votes for that matter) ... say 5 a day. Or earning them ... you can vote something cold after so many posts or so many hot votes?

It is a shame if good deals are lost because of petty or malicious voting.
banned#30
amcdermo
There are users who post cold because the user is defending the product. Even asking in a thread why the deal is cold is enough to get a deal expired. I posted a thread yesterday: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/240354/brand-new-hp-branded-laptop-rucksac
and asked why it was voted cold? This led to one particular forum troll voting cold.


Ignorant Pom
I voted cold because your whining angered me.
I'm not usually fond the phrase "cry more" but I think in this case...


I thought people who voted cold all the time or for stupid reasons were suspended? How many have actually been suspended for it?

I don't think cold voting should be stopped, but I've never seen anyone complain they were suspended or warned for it, so without action being taken against those who do it all the time for either no reason, or stupid ones, it won't stop.
#31
Check the Asda Monkey DVD thread. None of those posters have 'banned' next to their name.
#32
*XxGunnerxX*;2932962
I think the above has its roots set in good compost.

With a little redesign of the site, you could force everyone to have to qualify a cold vote by launching a popup that states "please state the reason for your cold vote" if you state no reason you cannot lodge a cold vote.

If you try to be arsey and just put in something that is meaningless forum users can then see and ignore it.

*XxgunnerxX*


Ok then you come up with a suggestion then. People should be polite enough to say why they thinks it cold (if no ones posted the same reason already). There are people exploiting the voting system to be a git so how do you suggest the system be changed?

The truth is if a deal is good but voted cold initially then it may not even get to be seen by people who can vote it hot. I'd rather have 20 messages saying cold due to cheaper elsewhere than none and just a cold voted deal. If it's cheaper then I'd like to know so i can buy it there instead! The problem comes from threads where no reason at all is left and the op wonders what they've done wrong.
#33
amcdermo;2933916
The truth is if a deal is good but voted cold initially then it may not even get to be seen by people who can vote it hot. I'd rather have 20 messages saying cold due to cheaper elsewhere than none and just a cold voted deal. If it's cheaper then I'd like to know so i can buy it there instead! The problem comes from threads where no reason at all is left and the op wonders what they've done wrong.


Look at the Monkey thread you are citing - its available cheaper elsewhere as indicated in the first post and isn't even particularly cold...

What might be an interesting idea is making hot votes worth more when a deal isn't considered 'hot' than when it is. Its true that some decent deals won't be seen by the masses as they never reach 'hot', whilst some relatively average deals (generally supermarket items that have a large market) seem to get disproportionately high - basically once a deal reaches 'hot' (ie the front page) its exposure is dramatically increased (and hence the number of people who vote on it). By decreasing the weight of a hot vote (and perhaps increasing the weight of a cold vote) once a deal has reached this threshold would probably create a more dynamic front-page. (Maybe.:giggle:)
[mod]#34
There's no reason to miss any deal.......you can set the custom settings to show everything and not just a min hot temperature.

If people miss out because they don't use the sites features then they can't really blame anyone else.
#35
jah128
Look at the Monkey thread you are citing - its available cheaper elsewhere as indicated in the first post and isn't even particularly cold...


It's warmed up since. When it was voted cold it was also falsely expired. As the 3rd post says it was -24 and that was before others voted it cold. Since it's been reopened the temperature went up. Anyway, add in quidco and the op does have it cheaper (which he was trying to explain) but that's not the point; it's the attitude of the posters in that thread and others. Proof that the voting system is being abused.
#36
I don't really see the 'abuse of the voting system' in that thread - if something is cheaper elsewhere and the OP themselves has seen the item cheaper before it doesn't sound like a hot deal - you can also say with certainty that at least 6 people have voted, at least 3 cold and at least 3 hot or warm, so that to me demonstrates that the voting system does work, not that its being abused.

The expiry system on the other hand has been abused by the looks of it,but that is a different matter altogether!
#37
amcdermo
It's warmed up since. When it was voted cold it was also falsely expired. As the 3rd post says it was -24 and that was before others voted it cold. Since it's been reopened the temperature went up. Anyway, add in quidco and the op does have it cheaper (which he was trying to explain) but that's not the point; it's the attitude of the posters in that thread and others. Proof that the voting system is being abused.

Weird to read an op talking about themselves in the third person. whistling2.gif
Agree with jah that the voting system does seem to work though expiries might be abused. You'll never stop people voting cold when someone argues up their 'hot deal'. It's for us to decide how hot it is after all, not the op. If we have to say why a vote is cold should we not also have to provide reasons for voting hot? Let's be honest - no-one ever asks us to explain why we've voted hot; we're just miffed when the vote is cold. Move on....
#38
Benjimoron;2927581
Why would people vote hot for the wrong reason?

People vote cold as they don't like the way it was posted or the price was missing from the title. People don't vote hot for those reasons.


A typical example of voting hot for the wrong reason is misunderstanding the deal and believing it's much better than it is. Those reading the thread may also misunderstand the deal due to previous comments and the deal temperature goes up however once it is properly understood and turns out not to be that great of deal the cold votes bring it down to where it should be.

I do think cold voting has its place as in most cases a deal will reach the right temperature although it may be erratic before then. Those that vote cold and cite an understandable reason such as there being a better similar product or a better priced deal for the item are definitely a benefit to the site. I do find it irritating when people vote cold and give absolutely no reason, I recently had a deal on Warhammer 40K books - not an exceptional deal but for the books in question it was the best I'd seen and there were a whole lot of cold voters. Sadly none of them actually posted why they were voting cold, if the books were cheaper elsewhere it would be have been useful to know. Eventually the deal did reach a lukewarm temperature which is what I would have expected for a reasonable deal on a niche set of books.

John
#39
chrisj
Weird to read an op talking about themselves in the third person. whistling2.gif


I'm not the op in that thread. I only spoke up because of the way he was treated.

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