Why do we not get to know 'multi's' other/existing/old usernames? - HotUKDeals
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#2


I would hope not. But ultimately, they can't protect us from that. So it only goes from feedback.

It's ok to log IP's, but they can be changed (Although not as freely) along with names, usernames, email's...

Could be wrong though.

majority of deals usually required cash to be exchanged, they could have a trusted site member aka.. mods, to have the money... This will help to iron out dodgy dealers but seems abit ott.
#3
No, the new account will be completely banned. If it is a serious matter arising from FS/FT, then the other account will also probably incur a FS/FT ban as well, if not a site ban, dependant on the issue.
#4
spic
No, the new account will be completely banned. If it is a serious matter arising from FS/FT, then the other account will also probably incur a FS/FT ban as well, if not a site ban, dependant on the issue.


multi in question not banned, suspended :? http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/member.php?u=213353
#5
DarrylJohn
I would hope not. But ultimately, they can't protect us from that. So it only goes from feedback.

It's ok to log IP's, but they can be changed (Although not as freely) along with names, usernames, email's...

Could be wrong though.

majority of deals usually required cash to be exchanged, they could have a trusted site member aka.. mods, to have the money... This will help to iron out dodgy dealers but seems abit ott.


they would never go for that, its always being spouted that fs is more trouble than its worth
banned#6
michelleleemoo
multi in question not banned, suspended :? http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/member.php?u=213353


the alias aaccount is banned, if known, so you wouldnt be chatting to someone who had ripped you off without knowing its them, unless of course no one knows the alias account
#7
spic
No, the new account will be completely banned. If it is a serious matter arising from FS/FT, then the other account will also probably incur a FS/FT ban as well, if not a site ban, dependant on the issue.

The original account holder is just infracted.
michelleleemoo
multi in question not banned, suspended :? http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/member.php?u=213353

Suspension is all that happens

sassie
the alias aaccount is banned, if known, so you wouldnt be chatting to someone who had ripped you off without knowing its them, unless of course no one knows the alias account

The idea is that the multi is banned but the original is still there and unidentified. So let's say that I set up a multi called 'cheat' and used only that for my FS/T and general naughtiness. I could be on misc etc etc as 'chesso' chatting and joking but at the same time ripping you off as 'cheat'. If caught, I am infracted and suspended but no one knows why. I might do some swearing as camouflage. 'Cheat' is banned but I can then set up another alias and carry on my evil ways.

It's been asked a few times why the original isn't banned as well as the 'multi accounts'.
banned#8
must admit i have never quite understood the banning of just one account, and also dont really get why they cant link them so others know, i suppose incase they get it wrong
banned#9
Why do you care?
#10
vibeone
Why do you care?


Probably so that the op, or other's don't get ripped off?
banned#11
Jumpingphil;8870480
I think that once a multi has been uncovered, then ALL accounts should be banned, permanently.


Agreed, although I think we always want a member to retain their full history. Dodgy feedback can be repaired over time.

As for displaying linked accounts, information we hold is not personal as such, more to do with machine/location identification, so we can't always be 100 % sure. As such, this is not a court of law, so we don't need the same level of proof. If we're content that the user breaches our code of conduct then that's enough.

I do agree though, there are instances where it's clear the same member is returning under a different alias. I'll try to pursue the clear identification of such members. Whilst I don't think we can link to possible multi accounts, a disclaimer that the remaining feedback might be incomplete could be considered. It's not fair that a multi could be created, have a bad trading experience that's brought to our attention, then the original id is left untarnished with no reflection on complete history. Their profile/feedback if flagged to show multi id's should be enough to prevent members trading with them in future. That should be enough of a deterrent I reckon.
#12
aScottishBloke



As for displaying linked accounts, information we hold is not personal as such, more to do with machine/location identification, so we can't always be 100 % sure. As such, this is not a court of law, so we don't need the same level of proof. If we're content that the user breaches our code of conduct then that's enough.

I do agree though, there are instances where it's clear the same member is returning under a different alias. I'll try to pursue the clear identification of such members. Whilst I don't think we can link to possible multi accounts, a disclaimer that the remaining feedback might be incomplete could be considered. It's not fair that a multi could be created, have a bad trading experience that's brought to our attention, then the original id is left untarnished with no reflection on complete history. Their profile/feedback if flagged to show multi id's should be enough to prevent members trading with them in future. That should be enough of a deterrent I reckon.


why couldn't they just be banned?

The only deterrent is a warning on their profile that they used to be a scammer/multi with terrible feedback. You know as well as everyone that some people don't follow the fs/ft guidelines, leave or look at a users existing feedback as it is so I really can't see how a warning on their profile that they used to be a multi is anyway a deterent.

What is the real reason for not banning he original multi account?
banned#13
ants97
why couldn't they just be banned?

The only deterrent is a warning on their profile that they used to be a scammer/multi with terrible feedback. You know as well as everyone that some people don't follow the fs/ft guidelines, leave or look at a users existing feedback as it is so I really can't see how a warning on their profile that they used to be a multi is anyway a deterent.

What is the real reason for not banning he original multi account?


+1
I fail to see why, if you find someone has a multi, you should ban all accounts associated with them full stop.
#14
If a member were to set up another(multi) account because they weren't aux fait with using the "Contact Us" button, or their "Contact Us" question was not responded to(which I believe may happen from time to time), it would be extrememly harsh to permanently ban the member.

"Hang them all" doesn't work in real life.
banned#15
thesaint
If a member were to set up another(multi) account because they weren't aux fait with using the "Contact Us" button, or their "Contact Us" question was not responded to(which I believe may happen from time to time), it would be extrememly harsh to permanently ban the member.

"Hang them all" doesn't work in real life.


ok so ban anyone with all accounts that have multi id's associated with them if they have been used for anything except contacting admin/mods about an outstanding issue.
banned#16
aScottishBloke

Agreed, although I think we always want a member to retain their full history. Dodgy feedback can be repaired over time.

As for displaying linked accounts, information we hold is not personal as such, more to do with machine/location identification, so we can't always be 100 % sure. As such, this is not a court of law, so we don't need the same level of proof. If we're content that the user breaches our code of conduct then that's enough.

I do agree though, there are instances where it's clear the same member is returning under a different alias. I'll try to pursue the clear identification of such members. Whilst I don't think we can link to possible multi accounts, a disclaimer that the remaining feedback might be incomplete could be considered. It's not fair that a multi could be created, have a bad trading experience that's brought to our attention, then the original id is left untarnished with no reflection on complete history. Their profile/feedback if flagged to show multi id's should be enough to prevent members trading with them in future. That should be enough of a deterrent I reckon.


Maybe I'm a right wing nutjob, or indeed, just a nutjob, but why pander to them?

FS/FT-connected serious infractions = instant ban. End of. Goodbye. See ya later. kthxbii
#17
thesaint
If a member were to set up another(multi) account because they weren't aux fait with using the "Contact Us" button, or their "Contact Us" question was not responded to(which I believe may happen from time to time), it would be extrememly harsh to permanently ban the member.

"Hang them all" doesn't work in real life.


why would the member set up another account just to contact admin?:?
#18
ants97
why would the member set up another account just to contact admin?:?


As I explained in my very short post, they don't understand how to use "Contact Us", or it gets no response, so they instead set up a multi account, and start a thread asking a question about their suspension.


Seen it many times, i'm surprised you haven't.
#19
thesaint
As I explained in my very short post, they don't understand how to use "Contact Us", or it gets no response, so they instead set up a multi account, and start a thread asking a question about their suspension.


Seen it many times, i'm surprised you haven't.


Yep seen it loads of times and I still think both accounts should be banned. In your scenario the original account has broken the rules and been suspended, they then go and break another rule by trying to get round the suspension. For me both accounts should still be banned and is not in the slightest bit harsh.
#20
ants97
Yep seen it loads of times and I still think both accounts should be banned. In your scenario the original account has broken the rules and been suspended, they then go and break another rule by trying to get round the suspension.


A lot of times they aren't rying to "get around the rules", it's usually they don't understand what has happened, and incorrectly use the wrong means to get an answer.

ants97
For me both accounts should still be banned and is not in the slightest bit harsh.


We are talking about a "Deals" website, not illegally trying to cross the border into another country.
It's a community, and we shoud be encouraging members who don't understand to follow the correct rules and guidelines, and hopefully they will have a worthwhile contribution.

I remember trying to join a gaming forum a few months ago, and messed up the registration process. I was banned. They will now never have the amazing input that I would otherwised contributed. I think it was harsh, but they're the ones that have lost out.
#21
thesaint
A lot of times they aren't rying to "get around the rues", it's usually they don't understand what has happened, and incorrectly use the wrong means to get an answer.



We are talking about a "Deals" website, not illegally trying to cross the border into another country.
It's a community, and we shoud be encouraging members who don't understand to follow the correct rules and guidelines, and hopefully they will have a worthwhile contribution.

I remember trying to join a gaming forum a few months ago, and messed up the registration process. I was banned. They will now never have the amazing input that I would otherwised contributed. I think it was harsh, but they're the ones that have lost out.


Ignorance and or stupidity not an excuse. They broke the rules and should suffer the consequencies
(can't believe I just wrote that about rules on a deals website but japan and holland has been terrible so I'll keep going).

As for your 2nd point, they have already not followed the rules and guidelines sufficiently enough to get themselves suspended. They then go and further dig themselves into a hole by breaking another rule, given their inability to follow the rules and guidelines I doubt they would be a valuable member of the "community".

Indeed in most of the cases in this scenario, the multi is created to either have a pop at the mod who suspended them or to continue trolling, arguing or whatever nonsense they were spouting that got them suspended in the first place.
banned#22
thesaint
As I explained in my very short post, they don't understand how to use "Contact Us", or it gets no response, so they instead set up a multi account, and start a thread asking a question about their suspension.
.


Tough.
[helper]#23
The banning of original and multi accounts has been discussed before - and I think it should happen but I don't think the mods are going to change this.

One long term member admitted (in a feedback thread) having a multi- account for "testing" purposes and as far as I'm aware the mods took no action.

I can see no honest reason to creat a multi and most multi's are created to either create mischief, circumvent suspensions or for multiple entries to Hotdeals comps.....so ban them all.
banned#24
gari189;8875415
The banning of original and multi accounts has been discussed before - and I think it should happen but I don't think the mods are going to change this.

One long term member admitted (in a feedback thread) having a multi- account for "testing" purposes and as far as I'm aware the mods took no action.

I can see no honest reason to creat a multi and most multi's are created to either create mischief, circumvent suspensions or for multiple entries to Hotdeals comps.....so ban them all.


I did come across one such case, however the account was created in the early days but it was closed as soon as it was highlighted.

The trouble with some multi's - They can be booted for say a Code of Conduct breach and require to get in touch with partly completed trades. I'll never condone the creation of such an account, but it's understandable to an extent, nevertheless it will be infracted, despite best intentions.

We do also have the possibility that a new account has been created from the same household and we can never be sure that it's not the same person. Again it might be tough imposing a full ban.

The bottom line I suppose is, we only want to ban members where we are sure there is an ulterior motive to the trade, or they abuse to such an extent that it has a detrimental effect on the boards.

Banning members for repeated breaches of the trading forums is a very heavy step indeed, one which may drive them underground. We'll do everything possible to keep a member on their original ID regardless of past feedback. This can be healed over time.

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