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AN OVERBOOKED FLIGHT GOT US 800 EUROS CASH ON THE SPOT & HOTEL BOARD (with still more to come) - CARE OF EU REGULATION 261/2004

Firstly this applies to all air lines and not just Ryanair, but I mentioned them here as they are the most commonly posted, and also complained most about the introduction of the regulations.

We got back from holiday about two weeks ago - having booked five flights round europe with various airlines, the longest flight being roughly 3400km.

Checking into one flight we were the first to check in and went though to the departure lounge pretty early, but waited for the majority of the queue to board before making it into the last ten.

However, it turned out they had issued too many boarding passes as the flight was overbooked, and we were told we would need to come back in 12 hours (the following morning).

Upon complaining they offered us 200 euros each, but I remembered reading something about airlines trying to avoid paying the minimum compensation so often, that the EU required them to mention the regulation on the boarding passes.

Success, it was there, so I searched the details on my mobile, and got the wikipedia page explaining things...

We were entitled to 400 euros each, a hotel, food, and transfers.

Upon mentioning this, they immediately offered the 800 euros, and told us to get a taxi to a nearby hotel, offering us a voucher that covered the room and food. They told us to get taxi receipts and they would pay them when we returned for the flight in the morning.

So all went well the next day we got the flight - although they declined to pay the taxi bill - claiming we could have got a bus.

So here is summary of what you are entitled to - don't accept anything less.

Cash compensation is a payment of:

Type 1. 250, for a flight of less than 1500 km
Type 2. 400, for flight within the EU of greater than 1500 km in distance, or any other flight of greater than 1500 km but less than 3500 km in distance
Type 3. 600, for a flight not within EU of greater than 3500 km in distance where flight types are as defined in notes. Where rerouting is offered and results in the passenger arriving within two/three/four hours of the scheduled arrival time for a type 1/2/3 flight, the compensation payable is halved.

If an airline expects a flight to be delayed, passengers are entitled to refreshments and communication if the expected delay is more than:

* two hours, in the case of a type 1 flight
* three hours, in the case of a type 2 flight
* four hours, in the case of a type 3 flight

When passengers become entitled to these assistances, they must be offered, free of charge,

* Meals and refreshments in proportion to the waiting time
* Two telephone calls, fax or telex messages, or emails
* Hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and the hotel, if a stay of one or more nights, or a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary.

So currently we have a claim lodged with the airline for the taxis and an additional claim as they let passengers board knowing there were too many - when the correct procedure was to effectively let passengers bid starting at the legal minimums above, until they had sufficient numbers accepting compensation to permit the flight to fly.

The link to the freebie takes you to the wikipedia page covering the details, PRINT ONE OFF AND SHOVE IT IN YOUR HAND LUGGAGE!

This has been in force since 18 February 2005 - so if your flight was delayed, over booked, or cancelled since that date - they should have made you aware of this - so contact the airline now for what they owe you but decided to keep quiet about.
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#1
sounds good im travelling this august and it would be very handy thank you and voted hot
#2
voted hot here too, my o/h wa stuck in Paris with Easy jet they didnt even pay the aair fare on another airline back
#3
Red Hot from me -

These airlines are making loads of money, do not under-estimate them! Their headline fares are nothing like what you actually end up paying and they regularly look to overbook banking on folk not turning up.

I was not aware of this, but have printed the text out and sent it on to a few friends.
1 Like #4
thanks for posting have printed out and will keep with passports
#5
Good timely advice.
#6
Top advice - we were delayed for 3 hours in Majprca and to be fair, Thomson airlines followed this to the letter.
#7
not a deal but have some heat and rep anyway just for getting what you where entitled to :thumbsup:

does this apply to airlines that cancel flights when your already at the airport I wonder
#8
Thank you. Flying to Prague on Monday! Hopefully nothing goes wrong!
#9
Voted hot hot hot, Flying to Turkey 21st returning 7th August praying my return is delayed, he he.
#10
Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea about this!
#11
Always nice to know - well done
#12
Thanks for the advice :thumbsup:
#13
My cousin went to Greece a couple of weeks ago and his flight was delayed for 8 hours..do you know if is there anything he could claim or is 12 hours the strict cut off point for cash compensation?
#14
We flew back from Montreal using KLM at Christmas. Good luck with the EU regulation it's a joke as airlines know how to avoid it.

It took us 52 hours to get back on a journey that should have taken under 10.

The EU law applies to any journey to/from the EU / EU airlines.

What happened was that a plane part failed and the engine couldn't be fixed. Then the APU (aux power unit) was also found to have failed. They cancelled the flight and had to get a new part from Vancouver, which took a day.

26hrs later, after fully admitting they cancelled the flight, and giving us a REALLY CRAPPY TIME they sent us onwards.

We were flying through Amsterdam (KLM's hub) and originally had a 40min transfer. The rebooked flight now has a 9 hour transfer at the airport. We checked on their computer and they had available seats earlier but they REFUSED to book us on anything else and then started lying, despite us seeing what was on the booking computer.

We had no money and all they gave us was a 10 euro voucher each, which in the airport bought us a homeless sandwich and soup. Jet lagged we walked around dazed and admired how expensive euros in an airport had become (1€ = £1 at Christmas).

Back in the UK at LHR KLM were far from helpful giving contact details for claiming or compensation, despite me bleating the EU regs at them the whole journey. As they'd also lost our luggage on the way out, I was pretty narked and demanding by the end.

I left with a badly photocopied address from the airport, no forms, no help, no nothing, other than take it up with customer services, not our problem.

When I got home I sent them everything, all recorded, all documented and all perfectly clear. They paid the luggage receipts but refused to pay anything out under the EU regs.

They said the reason why was because the problem was beyond their control and therefore the compensation didn't apply. I asked them why a perfectly good plan arrived, but a part failed that a) was unfixable and b) didn't have a spare in the airport. Maybe it was within their control, but the tight fisted airline hadn't bothered to plan.

I also challenged their safety procedures given they couldn't detect faulting parts during maintenance. They again insisted it was beyond their control.

Five months later, KLM's sister airline Air France, lost a plan due to not updating failing equipment ... hmmmm. Such a quality airline.

So, the point of my rant is simple. Airlines a weasels, be under no illusion, they know the EU regs very well and how to worm out of them. We lost our New Year, about £70 of additional charges and about 5 years of my life in pain; all because the airline couldn't manage its logistics.

So, my additional tips to attempt to get something back:

1. Spin the roulette wheel and hope for red.
2. Document the whole mess as it happens.
3. Keep ALL your receipts for things you had to buy during the incident (often airlines are happier to pay back on these than compensate).
4. Take photos, get things in writing, demand written proof (say its for the insurance).
5. If they won't give written information on a fault or a delay they are breaking the law.
6. Know your rights and don't deviate; but be calm, *always* be calm and repeat yourself.
7. Make sure you've everything you need from the airline before you leave the airport. This includes them saying things like "you don't need anything else". This is important in case the airline changes its mind later.

In short, all airlines are weasels, they lie, change their point of view and sometimes make stuff up when they don't know. It's human nature mixed with training on how to get rid of customers without giving away anything.

Oh - and avoid KLM and its associated affiliates as they deserve nothing more than the same amount of pain they caused us.

Happy travels.
#15
Excellent info here, thanks - though I wont wait to be the last 10 to board and try to gain from this.

Heat added.
#16
I claimed from Easy Jet a few years, back got stuck in Scotland due to fog for 1 night.

I just had to make a phone call to the head office and quote a bit of EU regulations and I had a cheque through the post as compensation.
#17
Superb, thank you.
#18
do you have a source for this? brill info, but i know if it was printed out n looked official the airlines would pay more attention that just fobbin off again sayin we are misinformed by our internet friends
#19
dcx_badass
Shame only in the EU, I had to get a flight in New Zealand it was supposed to be at 8:50, it kept been delayed due to fog at 11 they decided to put buses on (7 hour journey), buses finally came just after 12, then they drove us 3 hours in the opposite direction, then at 4:15 we had to get a plane from there for 2 hours finally arriving at 6:30, I lost a whole day and was only in that city for two. :(.

Sounds a pain, but would you prefer them to take off when it wasn't safe? Even ANZ aren't in charge of the weather!
banned#20
Robcampo;5701341
do you have a source for this? brill info, but i know if it was printed out n looked official the airlines would pay more attention that just fobbin off again sayin we are misinformed by our internet friends

click the deal
#21
janz70
not a deal but have some heat and rep anyway just for getting what you where entitled to :thumbsup:

does this apply to airlines that cancel flights when your already at the airport I wonder


Yes

The airline has just rung me and told me my flight in

a. three days’ time is cancelled. Am I due compensation?

Yes, if your flight was cancelled less than 7 days before your departure, and your new flight departs no more than one hour before the original scheduled time of departure, and arrives less than two hours after the original scheduled arrival time.

b. ten days’ time is cancelled. Am I due compensation?

Yes, if your flight was cancelled between 7 and 14 days before your departure, and your new flight departs no more than two hours before the original scheduled time of departure, and arrives less than four hours after the original scheduled arrival time.

c. 16 days’ time is cancelled. Am I due compensation?

No, but you can ask for a refund.


Source - Air Transport Users Council

dcx_badass
Shame only in the EU, I had to get a flight in New Zealand it was supposed to be at 8:50, it kept been delayed due to fog at 11 they decided to put buses on (7 hour journey), buses finally came just after 12, then they drove us 3 hours in the opposite direction, then at 4:15 we had to get a plane from there for 2 hours finally arriving at 6:30, I lost a whole day and was only in that city for two. :(.



Its not just the EU - our flight was Madrid to Moscow - which at 3400km was 100 km short of another 800 euros compensation.


magman
Voted hot hot hot, Flying to Turkey 21st returning 7th August praying my return is delayed, he he.



Its not too bad for returning, or if you have a fairly flexible schedule - but a bummer if one delay causes a domino effect.


seera-sama
My cousin went to Greece a couple of weeks ago and his flight was delayed for 8 hours..do you know if is there anything he could claim or is 12 hours the strict cut off point for cash compensation?



Sorry - the 12 hours was the time for our replacement flight. For delays they are only responsible for providing the cost of food and accommodation, unless that would risk increasing the delay, and compensation is not payable other than what I mentioned if its unforeseeable.

One of our other flights was delayed when a passenger who was drunk became abusive and then refused to leave the plane. This caused the flight to miss its slot, and by the time the police had come onto the plane to assist the passenger on his way, then the delay was almost three hours.


vtraveller
We flew back from Montreal using KLM at Christmas. Good luck with the EU regulation it's a joke as airlines know how to avoid it.

It took us 52 hours to get back on a journey that should have taken under 10.

The EU law applies to any journey to/from the EU / EU airlines.

What happened was that a plane part failed and the engine couldn't be fixed. Then the APU (aux power unit) was also found to have failed. They cancelled the flight and had to get a new part from Vancouver, which took a day.

26hrs later, after fully admitting they cancelled the flight, and giving us a REALLY CRAPPY TIME they sent us onwards.

We were flying through Amsterdam (KLM's hub) and originally had a 40min transfer. The rebooked flight now has a 9 hour transfer at the airport. We checked on their computer and they had available seats earlier but they REFUSED to book us on anything else and then started lying, despite us seeing what was on the booking computer.

We had no money and all they gave us was a 10 euro voucher each, which in the airport bought us a homeless sandwich and soup. Jet lagged we walked around dazed and admired how expensive euros in an airport had become (1€ = £1 at Christmas).

Back in the UK at LHR KLM were far from helpful giving contact details for claiming or compensation, despite me bleating the EU regs at them the whole journey. As they'd also lost our luggage on the way out, I was pretty narked and demanding by the end.

I left with a badly photocopied address from the airport, no forms, no help, no nothing, other than take it up with customer services, not our problem.

When I got home I sent them everything, all recorded, all documented and all perfectly clear. They paid the luggage receipts but refused to pay anything out under the EU regs.

They said the reason why was because the problem was beyond their control and therefore the compensation didn't apply. I asked them why a perfectly good plan arrived, but a part failed that a) was unfixable and b) didn't have a spare in the airport. Maybe it was within their control, but the tight fisted airline hadn't bothered to plan.

I also challenged their safety procedures given they couldn't detect faulting parts during maintenance. They again insisted it was beyond their control.

Five months later, KLM's sister airline Air France, lost a plan due to not updating failing equipment ... hmmmm. Such a quality airline.

So, the point of my rant is simple. Airlines a weasels, be under no illusion, they know the EU regs very well and how to worm out of them. We lost our New Year, about £70 of additional charges and about 5 years of my life in pain; all because the airline couldn't manage its logistics.

So, my additional tips to attempt to get something back:

1. Spin the roulette wheel and hope for red.
2. Document the whole mess as it happens.
3. Keep ALL your receipts for things you had to buy during the incident (often airlines are happier to pay back on these than compensate).
4. Take photos, get things in writing, demand written proof (say its for the insurance).
5. If they won't give written information on a fault or a delay they are breaking the law.
6. Know your rights and don't deviate; but be calm, *always* be calm and repeat yourself.
7. Make sure you've everything you need from the airline before you leave the airport. This includes them saying things like "you don't need anything else". This is important in case the airline changes its mind later.

In short, all airlines are weasels, they lie, change their point of view and sometimes make stuff up when they don't know. It's human nature mixed with training on how to get rid of customers without giving away anything.

Oh - and avoid KLM and its associated affiliates as they deserve nothing more than the same amount of pain they caused us.

Happy travels.



I am not 100% sure on this, but I think a delay not being foreseeable is acceptable, but for a cancellation is not - you would need to check this.

Try this site...

http://www.auc.org.uk

Additionally, I think a solution might be found from the Montreal Convention, rather than EU law.


Robcampo
do you have a source for this? brill info, but i know if it was printed out n looked official the airlines would pay more attention that just fobbin off again sayin we are misinformed by our internet friends



I copied the details from the wikipedia page, which if you click on the link to the 'deal' at the right, then it takes you to it.

Here is the EU's own page covering it too....

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/consumers/protection_of_consumers/l24235_en.htm
#22
good info, cheers!
#23
ibiza, a flight is deemed cancelled if it leaves after a same flight on a subsequent day. It's also deemed cancelled if its over 24hrs late leaving. Finally, it's cancelled if they say its cancelled.

All three criteria were met by KLM on the definition of cancelled.

A flight being cancelled due to a situation beyond the control of an airline means that EU compensation does not apply. More Airlines have worked out that its very hard to PROVE that a cancellation was within their control.

Hence the reason travellers get screwed. I could go over to AUC and raise a complaint, but in the end you loose the will to live and just want to be done with it. KLM have lost all my travel. There are also no-win legal companies that specialise in this stuff; they have access to airline maintenance logs and can argue your case for a win. Typically such companies take 20% of your award.

On the upside, if an airline is found guilty of being a Weasel they can be fined 5000€ per passenger, which to be honest is what they deserve sometimes.
#24
Cheers!
#25
Can i point out that if your flright is just 'delayed', you are only entitled to meals, refreshment and 2 phone calls. I am not exactly sure what is the legal definition of 'delay' pertaining to flights....

I was once on a ryanair nightmare which involves being stuck at an airport for 16 hours, but as the flgit status was 'DELAYED", we were told we could not claim anything.

we were only given 2 meals + a bottles of water........for that entire duration
#26
Thank you for that one....veru useful:thumbsup:
#27
pingu
Can i point out that if your flright is just 'delayed', you are only entitled to meals, refreshment and 2 phone calls. I am not exactly sure what is the legal definition of 'delay' pertaining to flights....

I was once on a ryanair nightmare which involves being stuck at an airport for 16 hours, but as the flgit status was 'DELAYED", we were told we could not claim anything.

we were only given 2 meals + a bottles of water........for that entire duration


But it does say that if your flight is delayed until the next day then you are entitled to accomodation?
#28
So basically if they dont admit its cancelled your stuck in the airport for 24Hr waiting for delayed flight

It should be it is classed as cancelled if the delay exceeds the flight time eg if its a 10 hour flight after 10 hr delay its cancelled but that would be too simple and help the passengerds out :x

vtraveller
ibiza, a flight is deemed cancelled if it leaves after a same flight on a subsequent day. It's also deemed cancelled if its over 24hrs late leaving. Finally, it's cancelled if they say its cancelled.

All three criteria were met by KLM on the definition of cancelled.

A flight being cancelled due to a situation beyond the control of an airline means that EU compensation does not apply. More Airlines have worked out that its very hard to PROVE that a cancellation was within their control.

Hence the reason travellers get screwed. I could go over to AUC and raise a complaint, but in the end you loose the will to live and just want to be done with it. KLM have lost all my travel. There are also no-win legal companies that specialise in this stuff; they have access to airline maintenance logs and can argue your case for a win. Typically such companies take 20% of your award.

On the upside, if an airline is found guilty of being a Weasel they can be fined 5000€ per passenger, which to be honest is what they deserve sometimes.
#29
Fantastic post OP.

Heat.
#30
There are companies/websites out there that will help you in getting compensation one for example is EU Claim (http://www.euclaim.co.uk/)

Also it is worth looking up the European Court of Justices ruling (Hermann Vs Alitalia) on what the airline has to do to prove the situation was out of their control.

vtraveller

They said the reason why was because the problem was beyond their control and therefore the compensation didn't apply. I asked them why a perfectly good plan arrived, but a part failed that a) was unfixable and b) didn't have a spare in the airport. Maybe it was within their control, but the tight fisted airline hadn't bothered to plan.

I also challenged their safety procedures given they couldn't detect faulting parts during maintenance. They again insisted it was beyond their control.


You have to remember that when a seat assembly can have at least 120 parts and other thousands of parts fitted to an aircraft nevermind all the different types of aircraft flying, it becomes impossible to stock every single spare part at every main airport in the world.

Also maintenace schedules are created to meet airworthiness regulations and major reliability problems and not to ensure that a part never failures when fitted to an aircraft.
banned#31
How would one go about claiming for food vouchers etc as once in the departure lounges, there arent any airline desks to approach?
#32
quality advice, many thanks
#33
Will try with Ryanair!
#34
thanks
#35
Does anyone know where or if I will be able to get information about delay times on past flights?

I went on holiday in May to Florida, Stanford airport with Thomson and the flight was delay for around two hour but wasn’t aware of these regulation so not sure if it over 2 hours or not.
#36
[URL="www.flightstats.com"]www.flightstats.com[/URL] is a great site for flight information but not sure if they do historic by flight. They certainly store it at a summarised level as they publish delay history by flight.
#37
Thank you, got the flight detail which i need.

My flight was delayed by over 2 hours in May from the USA , am I eligible for compensation, or is it too late? As at the time i was not offered anything?

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