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bykergrove Avatar
banned6y, 4m agoPosted 6 years, 4 months ago
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bykergrove Avatar
banned6y, 4m agoPosted 6 years, 4 months ago
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#1
we can NEVER win in Afghanistan-end of story. I have the greatest respect and admiration for our armed forces,but it is another vietnam-one day we will leave,one day the americans will leave and 24 hours later the country will be in civil war again.

You cannot defeat an enemy that are prepared to blow themselves,their wives and their children up for their beliefs. The americans discovered this in vietnam and learned nothing. In a "straight" fight,army against army,we could ipe the floor with the taliban,but their tactics are to whittle away at morale and public opinion-they can play the ultimate long game.
#2
guess so!!
#3
I guess this is going to be another happy thread X)
#4
Marina
I guess this is going to be another happy thread X)


waiting for the usual suspects to come along!!
banned#5
I wish the 2 war's we are fighting would end soon and then the money can be ploughed into things this country needs.
#6
magicbeans
waiting for the usual suspects to come along!!

lol

I have subscribed : )
banned#7
bykergrove
DLM
I wish the 2 war's we are fighting would end soon and then the money can be ploughed into things this country needs.


i guess if our government want to pull us out of an unfinished war then the hospitals would be a good place to start pumping money.


I agree, I am sick of waiting for 2 hour's to be seen in casualty or at the walk-in centres.

Are you my friend again? :3
suspended#8
They've been saying they will pull out for how many years now. It won't be for a long time, and the US war budget has now reached over one trillion dollars. And what changes have been made with that money? Well the weapon producing companies now have new leather seats and new sports cars, and well..over a million civilians have been murdered, and two countries infrastructures have been destroyed.

But hey, the US can still make two trillion dollars in profit with the recently discovered mineral wealth of Afghanistan alone. Not including the black gold of Iraq.
banned#9
bykergrove
DLM
bykergrove
DLM
I wish the 2 war's we are fighting would end soon and then the money can be ploughed into things this country needs.


i guess if our government want to pull us out of an unfinished war then the hospitals would be a good place to start pumping money.


I agree, I am sick of waiting for 2 hour's to be seen in casualty or at the walk-in centres.

Are you my friend again? :3


lol i am no ones friend now that rep doesn't exist :lol:

i know the lol face doesn't work but it was my fave


I guess I will just have to hope you are my friend :insert vomit smilie:
#10
In b4 guv,alfonse,boothy,tinks etc
#11
Watched Charlie Wilsons War recently and its one of the best films ever, ironic to think that America pumped billions of dollars and arms into Afghanistan and it came back to bite them on the ****
banned#12
bykergrove
dcx_badass
It's impossible to win a war against an enemy that can be anyone, anywhere, anytime. Stupid if you think it's remotely possible.


exactly, the government should have known that before diving into bed with bush. i guess their approach was fight fire with fire.. but all it seems they have done is stoked the flames


It has cut down the population slightly in this country.

Also given a lot of no hopers jobs as soldiers.
suspended#13
MarzBarz
In b4 guv,alfonse,boothy,tinks etc


And that Civs guy and MC.
banned#14
bykergrove
i guess but probably wasn't worth it for the families of the troops that didn't come home.


Very sad but that's what war's are about.
banned#15
bykergrove
DLM
bykergrove
i guess but probably wasn't worth it for the families of the troops that didn't come home.


Very sad but that's what war's are about.


yeah you're right, but it just seems a waste since the uk government wants to admit defeat and run back with their tail between their legs when nothing has changed over there. the government is still corrupt over there (ok ours is too but that's another story) so what will really change for the civilians that have had so much destroyed in their lives


Another reason labour got kicked out of downing street.
banned#16
It will only be the new Vietnam if it has its own killer soundtrack and I don't think that's possible with today's music.
#17
master_chief
It will only be the new Vietnam if it has its own killer soundtrack and I don't think that's possible with today's music.

surely the gaga could carry off the soundtrack album?
banned#18
bykergrove
master_chief
It will only be the new Vietnam if it has its own killer soundtrack and I don't think that's possible with today's music.


lol that's an interesting thought... i wonder how the withdrawal will be taught to our children in history? i wonder in 30 years how the past nine years are going to be taught in schools and what lessons we are supposedly to have learnt from the conflict.


Never really covered modern history when I was at school in the 90s, it stopped at WW2. Do they cover more recent stuff now?
#19
bykergrove
master_chief
Never really covered modern history when I was at school in the 90s, it stopped at WW2. Do they cover more recent stuff now?
dcx_badass
No, was still upto WW2 when I finished in 2006 (I think).
yep was only up to WW2 for us too. but i guess the UK hasn't really been in any major sustained conflicts between WW2 and the "war on terror"unless i'm mistaken?

you are forgetting the war of the squirrels-six bloody years of conflict with horrendous casualties on all sides. The grey ones won btw.
#20
I think people are missing something here, winning this war on terrorism is not important, the fact is, we are keeping them occupied, they are too busy fighting us off to plan anything like 9/11.

we have a choice, its either the odd soldier to die for his country, or thousands of innocents killed from cowardly acts of terrorism when we have our backs turned.

Why do we even have an army otherwise? to just march up and down all day and run assault courses? these men make a choice, and they are prepared to die for what they believe in, and yes of course it is sad to hear of losses.
banned#21
barky
bykergrove
master_chief
Never really covered modern history when I was at school in the 90s, it stopped at WW2. Do they cover more recent stuff now?
dcx_badass
No, was still upto WW2 when I finished in 2006 (I think).
yep was only up to WW2 for us too. but i guess the UK hasn't really been in any major sustained conflicts between WW2 and the "war on terror"unless i'm mistaken?


you are forgetting the war of the squirrels-six bloody years of conflict with horrendous casualties on all sides. The grey ones won btw.


Red's seem to be fighting back with a little help from humans:-

http://www.redsquirrels.info/index.html
#22
dcx_badass
jayjayuk1234
I think people are missing something here, winning this war on terrorism is not important, the fact is, we are keeping them occupied, they are too busy fighting us off to plan anything like 9/11.we have a choice, its either the odd soldier to die for his country, or thousands of innocents killed from cowardly acts of terrorism when we have our backs turned.


Lul wut?
7/7 ,much?


Guess i will need to explain for the retards??

5 years ago that was now my friend.

Getting some kind of control, or making an impact in afghanistan doesn't happen overnight,
#23
jayjayuk1234
I think people are missing something here, winning this war on terrorism is not important, the fact is, we are keeping them occupied, they are too busy fighting us off to plan anything like 9/11.we have a choice, its either the odd soldier to die for his country, or thousands of innocents killed from cowardly acts of terrorism when we have our backs turned.Why do we even have an army otherwise? to just march up and down all day and run assault courses? these men make a choice, and they are prepared to die for what they believe in, and yes of course it is sad to hear of losses.

my personal opinion-this is just drivel spouted by bush and his cronies for public consumption. the idea that our troops in afghanistan has stopped acts of terror being planned is,in my opinion,ludicrous.

since 9/11 we have got much better at detecting terrorist cells and averting plots,but as they say we need to be lucky ALL the time,they only need to be lucky once.

the threat will come from homegrown terrorists,infuriated and radicalised BY the fact that we are in afghanistan,so our troops being over there will stop nothing
#24
barky
jayjayuk1234
I think people are missing something here, winning this war on terrorism is not important, the fact is, we are keeping them occupied, they are too busy fighting us off to plan anything like 9/11.we have a choice, its either the odd soldier to die for his country, or thousands of innocents killed from cowardly acts of terrorism when we have our backs turned.Why do we even have an army otherwise? to just march up and down all day and run assault courses? these men make a choice, and they are prepared to die for what they believe in, and yes of course it is sad to hear of losses.


my personal opinion-this is just drivel spouted by bush and his cronies for public consumption. the idea that our troops in afghanistan has stopped acts of terror being planned is,in my opinion,ludicrous.

since 9/11 we have got much better at detecting terrorist cells and averting plots,but as they say we need to be lucky ALL the time,they only need to be lucky once.

the threat will come from homegrown terrorists,infuriated and radicalised BY the fact that we are in afghanistan,so our troops being over there will stop nothing


It's been 5 years since the last attack, so you reckon pull out and make it easier for them to regroup and replan?

We went into this mess head first, we can't quit now, vietnam was a different story
#25
do you really think American will leave Afghanistan before they get any share of the minerals? or was it that was the reason they went there in the 1st place?
banned#26
Is Afghan war a war on heroin also?
#27
shybeauty
do you really think American will leave Afghanistan before they get any share of the minerals? or was it that was the reason they went there in the 1st place?


Who knows, i guess you also believe it was a conspiracy and they planted bombs themselves and blamed it on the 'taliban'?

Way i see it, they are getting back the resources to try to rebuild what was lost, and some extra for compensation..

There are too many resources such as minerals and oil in this part of the world, it is too easy for these countries to use these commodities to purchase whatever weapons they like, and use it against us.
#28
jayjayuk1234
barky
jayjayuk1234
I think people are missing something here, winning this war on terrorism is not important, the fact is, we are keeping them occupied, they are too busy fighting us off to plan anything like 9/11.we have a choice, its either the odd soldier to die for his country, or thousands of innocents killed from cowardly acts of terrorism when we have our backs turned.Why do we even have an army otherwise? to just march up and down all day and run assault courses? these men make a choice, and they are prepared to die for what they believe in, and yes of course it is sad to hear of losses.
my personal opinion-this is just drivel spouted by bush and his cronies for public consumption. the idea that our troops in afghanistan has stopped acts of terror being planned is,in my opinion,ludicrous.since 9/11 we have got much better at detecting terrorist cells and averting plots,but as they say we need to be lucky ALL the time,they only need to be lucky once.the threat will come from homegrown terrorists,infuriated and radicalised BY the fact that we are in afghanistan,so our troops being over there will stop nothing
It's been 5 years since the last attack, so you reckon pull out and make it easier for them to regroup and replan?

5 years since the last attack?? didnt you hear about the one at glasgow airport? john smeaton and all that? and the security services have thwarted many plots since 7/7,it is sadly only a matter of time til they get lucky. recent car bomb attempt in times square? liquid bomb plot? shoe bombers?
#29
bykergrove
master_chief
Never really covered modern history when I was at school in the 90s, it stopped at WW2. Do they cover more recent stuff now?
dcx_badass
No, was still upto WW2 when I finished in 2006 (I think).
yep was only up to WW2 for us too. but i guess the UK hasn't really been in any major sustained conflicts between WW2 and the "war on terror"unless i'm mistaken?

Falklands, Korea, Cyprus, Suez, 1st Gulf Conflict.
1 Like #30
I fink we need iron man innit
#31
barky
jayjayuk1234
barky
jayjayuk1234
I think people are missing something here, winning this war on terrorism is not important, the fact is, we are keeping them occupied, they are too busy fighting us off to plan anything like 9/11.we have a choice, its either the odd soldier to die for his country, or thousands of innocents killed from cowardly acts of terrorism when we have our backs turned.Why do we even have an army otherwise? to just march up and down all day and run assault courses? these men make a choice, and they are prepared to die for what they believe in, and yes of course it is sad to hear of losses.
my personal opinion-this is just drivel spouted by bush and his cronies for public consumption. the idea that our troops in afghanistan has stopped acts of terror being planned is,in my opinion,ludicrous.since 9/11 we have got much better at detecting terrorist cells and averting plots,but as they say we need to be lucky ALL the time,they only need to be lucky once.the threat will come from homegrown terrorists,infuriated and radicalised BY the fact that we are in afghanistan,so our troops being over there will stop nothing
It's been 5 years since the last attack, so you reckon pull out and make it easier for them to regroup and replan?


5 years since the last attack?? didnt you hear about the one at glasgow airport? john smeaton and all that? and the security services have thwarted many plots since 7/7,it is sadly only a matter of time til they get lucky. recent car bomb attempt in times square? liquid bomb plot? shoe bombers?


The problem now, is that whenever there is some terrorism, it is easy for the taliban to claim responsibility, even if it was another extremist group, just to try and show us that we are failing in our task and to pull out...

Besides, the other events you mention are pretty minor in comparison with 7/11 or 7/7, it takes a lot more organization and planning for bigger events.
#32
barky
we can NEVER win in Afghanistan-end of story. I have the greatest respect and admiration for our armed forces,but it is another vietnam-one day we will leave,one day the americans will leave and 24 hours later the country will be in civil war again.You cannot defeat an enemy that are prepared to blow themselves,their wives and their children up for their beliefs. The americans discovered this in vietnam and learned nothing. In a "straight" fight,army against army,we could ipe the floor with the taliban,but their tactics are to whittle away at morale and public opinion-they can play the ultimate long game.


It is true that we cannot win and that the tactics of the insurgients cannot be countered in the long run. Buit it is also true that these are the tactics that any population would use against and invading army. It happened in France during the German occupation and rest assured our home defence had plans for suicide missions to stop, slow down or resist and occupation if it came to that during the second world war.


We should bring the troops home now and charge Blair and Bush for war crimes.
#33
I would say so yes. Good soldiers are loosing their lives over there, we should leave. I always wanted to be a soldier (was drilled out of me by my parents lol) but i can safely say i would be extremely reluctant to risk my life in an unwinnable and illegal war. I would still consider joining the forces but not while this war is on. Like people said how can you beat an enemy that will kill themselves and their loved ones for their beliefs.
#34
DLM
Is Afghan war a war on heroin also?


good point, I despised the taliban regime but at least they significantly reduced the heroin cultivation from 96-01, it has been increasing since every year since Afghanistan was invaded. Think around 90% of the worlds heroin comes from Afghanistan/Northern Pakistan so I think this is just a big issue as the whole terrorism thing.

I would bet that more people die yearly as a result of some sort of involvement with the heroin trade than die from terrorist attacks
#35
Afghanistan been in war with Russia for almost 10 years, do you think another war really will make them give up? I dont agree with whats going on there but what US n British troops doing there not going to help much. Its a waste of time and money and LIFE!!!
#36
micoo
I would say so yes. Good soldiers are loosing their lives over there, we should leave. I always wanted to be a soldier (was drilled out of me by my parents lol) but i can safely say i would be extremely reluctant to risk my life in an unwinnable and illegal war. I would still consider joining the forces but not while this war is on. Like people said how can you beat an enemy that will kill themselves and their loved ones for their beliefs.


Although we might see it as killing themselves I would see it as they are prepared to give their life just in the way that we see our soldiers prepared to die by joing the forces and going to war.

As far as I know native Afghans dont believe in suicide bombing its more of a Al Qaeda ideology.

I also think sometimes its forgotten that although we think we are invading countries to help the native people, we are seen as invaders by the indigineous people of that country and they are defending their country just in the same way we would defend ours if we were invaded by foreign occupiers with different values and way of life

Edited By: treble99 on Jul 22, 2010 12:05: spelling
1 Like #37
Id pull out the troops and drop a nuke on that country.
#38
treble99
micoo
I would say so yes. Good soldiers are loosing their lives over there, we should leave. I always wanted to be a soldier (was drilled out of me by my parents lol) but i can safely say i would be extremely reluctant to risk my life in an unwinnable and illegal war. I would still consider joining the forces but not while this war is on. Like people said how can you beat an enemy that will kill themselves and their loved ones for their beliefs.


Although we might see it as killing themselves I would see it as they are prepared to give their life just in the way that we see our soldiers prepared to die by joing the forces and going to war.

As far as I know native Afghans dont believe in suicide bombing its more of a Al Qaeda ideology.

I also think sometimes its forgotten that although we think we are invading countries to help the native people, we are seen as invaders by the indigineous people of that country and they are defending their country just in the same way we would defend ours if we were invaded by foreign occupiers with different values and way of life

Edited By: treble99 on Jul 22, 2010 12:05: spelling


the difference being we dont blow ourselves
#39
micoo


the difference being we dont blow ourselves


As I said Aghans dont use suicide bombers now and didnt in the 80's. They tend to use roadside improvised explosive devices as they dont believe in suicide bombing as an ideology. Suicide bombers in Afghanistan are likely to be Al-qaeda fighters from the middle east and Pakistan.

Dont recall a single terrorist from Aghan involved in 9/11 or 7/7 and dont recall the Taliban ever trying to harm UK interests when they were in power.

I understand what you mean about suicide bombers but I truly believe that no human being really wants to die if they could avoid it and Im sure they would prefer to use the hi-tech weaponary that the US and UK use.

Some terrorist organisations use suicide bombers while the UK and US use cruise missiles and bunker busters. The result in both cases is often the same, innocent people are killed who have nothing to do with any conflict.

Im not a supporter of the taliban or al-qaeda but think sometimes there a biased view towards how certain factions and organsations are viewed and how some are labelelled as terrorists and others arent, funny that when Jews in Palestine blew up the King David hotel killing British civilians and also hanged two British soldiers they werent labelled as terrorists and we didnt invade their country, in fact we sped up the process of them forming their own country by allowing them to steal land of the Palestinians.


Edited By: treble99 on Jul 22, 2010 12:26:
Edited By: treble99 on Jul 22, 2010 12:28:
suspended#40
numptyj
I fink we need iron man innit


Why not Aluminium man?

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