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A serious symbolic dilemma - what would you do? (A kind of non-theist parable)

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Most of you will know I'm an atheist, and freely tell people so if the subject of religion comes up. Anyway, an interesting 'test' of my convictions arrived quite literally at my door this afternoon.…
Liddle ol' me Avatar
8y, 4m agoPosted 8 years, 4 months ago
Most of you will know I'm an atheist, and freely tell people so if the subject of religion comes up. Anyway, an interesting 'test' of my convictions arrived quite literally at my door this afternoon. Here's the story and the dilemma it has produced:

We have moved recently and about a week ago the Jehovah's Witnesses came to our door for the first time. Anyway, rather than getting the door closed as quickly as possible as is my usual response, I decided to counter their questions with challenging questions of my own (I was in the mood!). I played their game for about 10 minutes, being polite but firm in my position and explaining to them why they were wrong, using the full force of my intellect to pick holes in their position and approach. They were good though, and unsurprisingly neither side got very far. So after about 10-15 minutes of this, I drew the conversation to a close and respectfully requested they not knock on our door again. They agreed.

About an hour ago, I saw the same two men walk up to our door and was ready to rush downstairs to confront them about their broken promise (yippee I thought, an intellectual distraction!) but there was no knock and I saw them walk away again, so I figured they had posted some material through the letter box.

But no! They went one better! Having just gone outside to get something from the car, I've found the most beautiful wreath, replete with red berries, hanging from our door!

Now the wreath looked exceedingly handsome on our rather impressive green door -- the new abode is a large Georgian city-centre terrace with high steps up to the oversized door -- so it was with a touch of sadness that I had to remove it.

The question now is, what do I do with the wreath, and what will those kindly men think when they see it's not there? Do you think they'll knock on the door eventually to ask for it back?!
Liddle ol' me Avatar
8y, 4m agoPosted 8 years, 4 months ago
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banned#1
I wouldn't like somebody hanging something on my front door without my permission!
#2
how mad, cos JV dont believe in celebrating xmas, so why would they do that??
OMG i need to know the outcome of this, im intrigued!
#3
DLM
I wouldn't like somebody hanging something on my front door without my permission!


unless it was addressed to you and vibrated:thumbsup::oops:
banned#4
pcnutta
unless it was addressed to you and vibrated:thumbsup::oops:


Of course :oops:
#5
weird...where did they get it from??
#6
is there some symbolic reason for it??
#7
louloo
weird...where did they get it from??


the house down the road!! framing her for stealing it! SHOCKING! LOL
#8
were made from holly during Roman times. Holly was looked on as having magical powers to the ancient Celts as it was one of the few plants to survive and look beautiful in the winter. The Celts picked holly boughs and put them in their houses to ward off the evils they believed lurked about in the darker months. Roman soldiers are believed to have brought the idea of decorating with holly back from Britain.
Holly was used by the Romans during their winter solstice celebrations and became sacred to Saturn, the sun god the Romans worshipped. The week long winter solstice celebrations of the Romans honored Saturn. Holly wreaths with their bright red berries were given as gifts. Holly was everywhere during these celebrations – on the public buildings, in the streets and shops, inside and outside of homes. The tradition of giving wreaths as gifts started here. Holly was thought to be lucky so the more you had the better off you were
#9
Perhaps they are labelling the non-belivers house for when the messiah does return he will know which ones to burn!!

Sounds like me and you would get on liddle ol'me, i have the same conversations as you had when the mormons come round
#10
The red berries were interpreted by Christians to represent Jesus’ blood as it appeared on the crown of thorns. This was incredibly sacred because it represented the sacrifice Christ made for all mankind to redeem, save and forgive all from sin, with his own blood in pure torture. The holly bush was one of the few evergreen plants in Northeast Africa. The undying green came to represent everlasting life and hope and the shape of the circle represented eternity and everlasting life in heaven granted by God because of Jesus' sacrifice. The round shape also symbolized eternity. A circle has no beginning or end. For all these reasons one would think the wreath would be the main decoration for Easter
#11
I had ones who kept knocking mine every weekend no matter what i told them. in the end i didnt answer the door.
#12
pcnutta
the house down the road!! framing her for stealing it! SHOCKING! LOL


its what i wondered...its not the sort of thing you carry concealed in your Watchtower is it?:whistling:
And as said already they dont celebrate xmas...but it obviously wasnt for xmas...so maybe just a nice gift as they appreciated your banter:thumbsup:
#13
Interesting!

I take it you have had a look at it to see if there is a note attached?

If nothing, what about contacting your local JW church and asking if they had left it?

Say it is from them, it could have been left as a sign of peace or circle of friendship type gift.

Or they have done this to encourage you to ask more questions so you don't close them out of their church.
#14
exactly hun, how weird!! lol

Maybe you converted them! and they thought ahh sod it im gonna celebrate xmas!
#15
Burn it :x
banned#16
choc1969
Burn it :x


:giggle::thumbsup:
#17
DNT EAT the BERRYS!
#18
i think it was a nice thing to do. never mind the reasons behind. if it looked nice what does it matter? i read the post and went ahhhhhhh.
#19
choc1969;3310887
Burn it :x

Burn them:thumbsup::whistling::whistling:
#20
I think they've marked my house with invisible Witness ink as now they've started bringing children to my door in the hope that I won't tell them to f off. I've been polite but now they try my patience.
#21
pcnutta
how mad, cos JV dont believe in celebrating xmas, so why would they do that??
OMG i need to know the outcome of this, im intrigued!


Really? I didn't know that. Perhaps they weren't JV then :? I just kind of assumed they were and didn't accept the literature when they called. Or perhaps it wasn't them at all :w00t:
#22
sancho1983
Perhaps they are labelling the non-belivers house for when the messiah does return he will know which ones to burn!!

Sounds like me and you would get on liddle ol'me, i have the same conversations as you had when the mormons come round


maybe they were mormons :oops: see my last post

I love the idea btw! :thumbsup:
#23
fireexit
i think it was a nice thing to do. never mind the reasons behind. if it looked nice what does it matter? i read the post and went ahhhhhhh.


Yes, that's the dilemma. It probably was done for the best possible reasons....








... or are they trying to **** with my head? :w00t:
#24
Freemasons and mormons use the wreath as a symbol of remembrance.

Wicker Man comes to mind.....I'd be sealing my letter box if was you :whistling:
#25
choc1969
Freemasons and mormons use the wreath as a symbol of remembrance.

Wicker Man comes to mind.....I'd be sealing my letter box if was you :whistling:


Remembrance of what? The crucifixion? ( crown of thorns I guess??).

Haven't seen Wicker Man - not sure if I want to now... :thinking:
#26
your probably marked for kiddnapping brainwashing lol they are gonna take you to their cult lol
#27
Liddle ol' me;3311046
Remembrance of what? The crucifixion? ( crown of thorns I guess??).

Haven't seen Wicker Man - not sure if I want to now... :thinking:


Remembrance of the dead.........:w00t:
#28
ilovepink;3311069
your probably marked for kiddnapping brainwashing lol they are gonna take you to their cult lol


:giggle::shock:
#29
Liddle ol' me
Yes, that's the dilemma. It probably was done for the best possible reasons....








... or are they trying to **** with my head? :w00t:


The latter. If you think anything different then they have clearly made you think, their intention is for you to think, become curious, find out information, be a little more curious...and so it goes on, what I'm getting at is that you have opened your mind, in their eyes, and that little opening is a possibility you will become interested and therefor cannot be Atheist, as you will begin to question if there is something to question. Am I making sense to you? lol :?
#30
Burn the wreath its tainted been tainted by "god"

I played their game for about 10 minutes, being polite but firm in my position and explaining to them why they were wrong, using the full force of my intellect to pick holes in their position and approach.

you must of torn them a new one brah, must of been like a boxing match how you picked them apart, a few body shots here and there, I guess they would of thrown the towel in if they stayed and converted to an atheist.
#31
black gerbil1
Burn the wreath its tainted been tainted by "god"


you must of torn them a new one brah, must of been like a boxing match how you picked them apart, a few body shots here and there, I guess they would of thrown the towel in if they stayed and converted to an atheist.


BG there is no such thing as God so how can it be tainted?
#32
snowflake
The latter. If you think anything different then they have clearly made you think, their intention is for you to think, become curious, find out information, be a little more curious...and so it goes on, what I'm getting at is that you have opened your mind, in their eyes, and that little opening is a possibility you will become interested and therefor cannot be Atheist, as you will begin to question if there is something to question. Am I making sense to you? lol :?


I agree. They may have prompted a reaction, but they have failed to make my brain to fall out of my head yet. :)

black gerbil1
Burn the wreath its tainted been tainted by "god"

you must of torn them a new one brah, must of been like a boxing match how you picked them apart, a few body shots here and there, I guess they would of thrown the towel in if they stayed and converted to an atheist.


As much as I like agreeing with you Comrade BG1, I'll have to pass on the violent reactions and metaphors. I'm a pacifist and humanist - I may vehemently disagree with religion but I don't want to break anybody's windows, let alone tear new orifices in their body :-D This is something we can discuss more at the inaugural meeting of VLR! ;-)
#33
black gerbil1
Burn the wreath its tainted been tainted by "god".


snowflake
BG there is no such thing as God so how can it be tainted?


But he put scare quotes "---" to distance himself from the notion of god. We still need to use the word otherwise nobody would understand what we were resisting. And saying "that guy who primitive peoples thought made the world in seven days" would be a bit of a mouthful! :)
#34
OOO scarey I dont like wreaths of any kind not even xmas ones, think they are unlucky
#35
Liddle ol' me
I agree. They may have prompted a reaction, but they have failed to make my brain to fall out of my head yet. :)



As much as I like agreeing with you Comrade BG1, I'll have to pass on the violent reactions and metaphors. I'm a pacifist and humanist - I may vehemently disagree with religion but I don't want to break anybody's windows, let alone tear new orifices in their body :-D This is something we can discuss more at the inaugural meeting of VLR! ;-)


Isnt it strange how Atheism is so misinterpreted.
#36
Liddle ol' me
But he put scare quotes "---" to distance himself from the notion of god. We still need to use the word otherwise nobody would understand what we were resisting. And saying "that guy who primitive peoples thought made the world in seven days" would be a bit of a mouthful! :)


Hmmm im liking the latter, always did prefer a mouthfull :w00t: (omg did i just say that)! lol :p
#37
Yes, you did say that! [ Information noted and stored ]
#38
nikkib123
So what have you decided to do LOM?

I don't understand why they did it in the first place - they must have a big budget!


Well I have to confirm it was them first, so it's sitting in the back garden until I can be sure what has actually happened here. I may have put 2 + 2 together and made 6. I'm kind of expecting to be contacted by a friend saying "did you like the wreath?" or something like that. I'll update the thread when I know more. :thumbsup:
#39
I think it's Mormons. Isn't giving a wreath one of the 7 anointings of some saint/disciple or something. I don't care enough to google it!! I think it means you're more or less saved LOM, either that or watch out for pixies tonight.:-D
#40
They (JW's) have been known to leave 'calling cards' with people who are open to discussion. It lets other believers know you may be 'one for turning' - I have difficulty concentrating on the whole 'heaven is a place on earth' vibe without thinking of Belinda Carlisle.

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