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ADVICE PLEASE - Court Summons for Drunk & disorderly

Sh0rty Avatar
5y, 6m agoPosted 5 years, 6 months ago
im not going to bore you with my story but basically i appealed against a fine and i have been summoned to court

i know i wasnt in the wrong and im very happy to explain why i am in the right to the court myself but should i have a solicitor?

it also helps that a family friend is a pcso and was there that night and has told me that her superior told them when they arrived to arrest anyone big as we believe there will be a fight (this they said after throwing 300 people out a pub in a unorganised mannor meaning nobody could find any of there friends) so know i did nothing wrong and knowing that from there side im quite happy to fight my corner and plead not guilty

but what are my chances? we all know the law isnt perfect but id like to think justice would prevail here will i be better with a solicitor? i just down right refuse to plead guilty when that would make me a liar

i have no previous convictions or altercations with the police so considering i know i done nothing wrong and due to the numbers they arrested some there that night must have do i stand a chance?
Sh0rty Avatar
5y, 6m agoPosted 5 years, 6 months ago
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#1
I'd have a solicitor myself. Seems you've been stitched up already, I wouldn't risk them doing it again.

You may be able to get a duty solicitor on the day - perhaps someone else can confirm...?
1 Like #2
A defendant who represents himself has a fool for a client.
banned#3
u on benefits?

serious question
banned#4
Lol @ family friend being a pcso
#5
i aint a liar but im a very stubborn person so this has really wound me up if i was in the wrong im the first to admit it

ive just started a new job with the council aswell so this could screw me if i go for not guilty and they still get me which if they want to they can as they can do what they want

i dont have a high salary as im a student at the moment aswell so will that mean i just end up with the crap solicitor who is paid by the court i.e half on there side anyway?
#6
Elton Chong
u on benefits?

serious question


nope but low salary as a student aswell
#7
vibeone
Lol @ family friend being a pcso


whats so funny?
banned 3 Likes #8
Very fitting avatar op
#9
If you stand up in court & say the police are lying you wont stand a chance. Get a solicitor.
#10
If you can get a solicitor, then get one. Not sure why you're even asking.
#11
so is your friend that quoted the police willing to testify in court?? cos if they arent its just hear say and you wont stand a chance without any proof!
#12
DangerGod
Very fitting avatar op


yawn jog on
banned#13
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
u on benefits?

serious question


nope but low salary as a student aswell


You may be able to get some concession due to being a student or even legal aid. Speak to a solicitor and see what they say. Is it too late to pay the fine now? If not then weigh up the cost of the fine vs the solicitor plus all the grief.

If you have to attend court then u must have a solicitor.

On a happier note I think it says a lot that you are refusing to pay the fine on principle. To go in and show your face when the fine was prob quite low shows a degree of honesty. Most people would just swallow the fine.
#14
Floravada
so is your friend that quoted the police willing to testify in court?? cos if they arent its just hear say and you wont stand a chance without any proof!


this is were i am at a loss i havent asked them but i doubt they will because surely that wil affect there job?
#15
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
u on benefits?

serious question


nope but low salary as a student aswell


You may be able to get some concession due to being a student or even legal aid. Speak to a solicitor and see what they say. Is it too late to pay the fine now? If not then weigh up the cost of the fine vs the solicitor plus all the grief.

If you have to attend court then u must have a solicitor.

On a happier note I think it says a lot that you are refusing to pay the fine on principle. To go in and show your face when the fine was prob quite low shows a degree of honesty. Most people would just swallow the fine.


this is what is getting to me knowing that because i am stubborn i risk taking it further but i would just be a liar if i stood there and said guilty because i am not
#16
ok so a solicitor is a must so nobody needs to say anymore on that front!

onto the main problem do i stand a chance? is there any sorta stats for how many get charged when taken to court
banned#17
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
u on benefits?

serious question


nope but low salary as a student aswell


You may be able to get some concession due to being a student or even legal aid. Speak to a solicitor and see what they say. Is it too late to pay the fine now? If not then weigh up the cost of the fine vs the solicitor plus all the grief.

If you have to attend court then u must have a solicitor.

On a happier note I think it says a lot that you are refusing to pay the fine on principle. To go in and show your face when the fine was prob quite low shows a degree of honesty. Most people would just swallow the fine.


this is what is getting to me knowing that because i am stubborn i risk taking it further but i would just be a liar if i stood there and said guilty because i am not


Well surely they would laugh you out of the court room if you pleaded guilty because you appealed the fine.

How much was the fine
#18
Theres no way that PCSO will give evidence for you.
Everything will depend on the officers evidence who arrested you, you will get to see his statement before the hearing and unless you can disprove the claims adeqately then you will be found guilty.
The number of people arrested that night has no bearing on your case whatsoever.

All you can do now you've appealed it is turn up with a solicitor, take his advice, be calm, presentable and articulate and hope the solicitor can rubbish the Officers evidence but I don't fancy your chances.


Edited By: Grimer on May 25, 2011 22:18
#19
By your admission you are stubborn. If that trait is seized on by the court it will make things more difficult. Get someone to represent you.
#20
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
u on benefits?

serious question


nope but low salary as a student aswell


You may be able to get some concession due to being a student or even legal aid. Speak to a solicitor and see what they say. Is it too late to pay the fine now? If not then weigh up the cost of the fine vs the solicitor plus all the grief.

If you have to attend court then u must have a solicitor.

On a happier note I think it says a lot that you are refusing to pay the fine on principle. To go in and show your face when the fine was prob quite low shows a degree of honesty. Most people would just swallow the fine.


this is what is getting to me knowing that because i am stubborn i risk taking it further but i would just be a liar if i stood there and said guilty because i am not


Well surely they would laugh you out of the court room if you pleaded guilty because you appealed the fine.

How much was the fine



only £80
#21
Grimer
Theres no way that PCSO will give evidence for you.
Everything will depend on the officers evidence who arrested you, you will get to see his statement before the hearing and unless you can disprove the claims adeqately then you will be found guilty.
The number of people arrested that night has no bearing on your case whatsoever.

All you can do now you've appealed it is turn up with a solicitor, take his advice, be calm, presentable and articulate and hope the solicitor can rubbish the Officers evidence but I don't fancy your chances.


looks like i will have to i would rather pay a solicitor however much it costs and be found not guilty than pay them a penny when i wasnt in the wrong
banned#22
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
u on benefits?

serious question


nope but low salary as a student aswell


You may be able to get some concession due to being a student or even legal aid. Speak to a solicitor and see what they say. Is it too late to pay the fine now? If not then weigh up the cost of the fine vs the solicitor plus all the grief.

If you have to attend court then u must have a solicitor.

On a happier note I think it says a lot that you are refusing to pay the fine on principle. To go in and show your face when the fine was prob quite low shows a degree of honesty. Most people would just swallow the fine.


this is what is getting to me knowing that because i am stubborn i risk taking it further but i would just be a liar if i stood there and said guilty because i am not


Well surely they would laugh you out of the court room if you pleaded guilty because you appealed the fine.

How much was the fine



only £80


Ouch. Only £80.

Go get legal advice tommorow and relax because whatever happens its a minor issue and ur not in any serious trouble. You may be a little bit out of pocket but its a lesson learned....dont be stubborn and when it comes to this sort of thing forget principles, go with the path of least resistance.

Any fine or costs will be balanced against the fact ur a poor student.

The only and i stress only reason i could justify your course of action is if there was a chance this would show up on your crb if you just accepted the fine. In that scenario i would say it was well worth appealing
banned#23
Sh0rty
vibeone
Lol @ family friend being a pcso


whats so funny?


PCSO's
#24
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
Sh0rty
Elton Chong
u on benefits?

serious question


nope but low salary as a student aswell


You may be able to get some concession due to being a student or even legal aid. Speak to a solicitor and see what they say. Is it too late to pay the fine now? If not then weigh up the cost of the fine vs the solicitor plus all the grief.

If you have to attend court then u must have a solicitor.

On a happier note I think it says a lot that you are refusing to pay the fine on principle. To go in and show your face when the fine was prob quite low shows a degree of honesty. Most people would just swallow the fine.


this is what is getting to me knowing that because i am stubborn i risk taking it further but i would just be a liar if i stood there and said guilty because i am not


Well surely they would laugh you out of the court room if you pleaded guilty because you appealed the fine.

How much was the fine



only £80


Ouch. Only £80.

Go get legal advice tommorow and relax because whatever happens its a minor issue and ur not in any serious trouble. You may be a little bit out of pocket but its a lesson learned....dont be stubborn and when it comes to this sort of thing forget principles, go with the path of least resistance.

Any fine or costs will be balanced against the fact ur a poor student.

The only and i stress only reason i could justify your course of action is if there was a chance this would show up on your crb if you just accepted the fine. In that scenario i would say it was well worth appealing


i have my crb back for my new job 2 weeks ago and its clean its just the fact of how i was treated i aint going into it but i never resisted once or answered back or swore and for that i got several punches to the back and derogatory statements made about me by one officer in particular on the way to the car which of course when i asked for his number i was refused

thats what is bringing my stubborness out more
#25
You should be able to get legal aid. As far as I know, the solicitor is appointed by the court and is a normal proper solicitor, no worse or better than other solicitors.

Your legal representative can call witnesses on your behalf. There is no reason why you shouldn't plead not guilty if you did nothing wrong and if you have witnesses to support your case. I can't imagine for one minute, however, that your friend will repeat the 'arrest anyone big' statement, unless she no longer wants to be a support officer.
The legal aid person will surely know about all that stuff and advise you about costs, fines and so on.
#26
By electing to appeal, it was always going to be settled in front of the magistrates, so really you should have thought about all this before signing that part of the form.
suspended#27
I used to be a Custody Officer (in the cells), from experience it depends on what Judge you get/sometimes their mood on the day too!
I also used to sell house insurance, if you house insurance with legal cover call them they will sort
legal rep and charge will be your policy excess.
To be fair if you plead guilty you will prob get caution and/or fine. If you go not guilty it may be adjourned for pre-sentence report (gather all poss info), depends how far you want to go with this!
1 Like #28
nattynatty
I used to be a Custody Officer (in the cells), from experience it depends on what Judge you get/sometimes their mood on the day too!
I also used to sell house insurance, if you house insurance with legal cover call them they will sort
legal rep and charge will be your policy excess.
To be fair if you plead guilty you will prob get caution and/or fine. If you go not guilty it may be adjourned for pre-sentence report (gather all poss info), depends how far you want to go with this!

You don't get a judge.
You cant get a caution.
Wont be adjourned.
#29
You need HUKD's resident legal guru - magicjay!
The only advice I can give you is the CAB might have some advice on legal aid etc.
Good luck.
#30
Grimer
nattynatty
I used to be a Custody Officer (in the cells), from experience it depends on what Judge you get/sometimes their mood on the day too!
I also used to sell house insurance, if you house insurance with legal cover call them they will sort
legal rep and charge will be your policy excess.
To be fair if you plead guilty you will prob get caution and/or fine. If you go not guilty it may be adjourned for pre-sentence report (gather all poss info), depends how far you want to go with this!

You don't get a judge.
You cant get a caution.
Wont be adjourned.


I'm guessing there will be a magistrate and a jury? The jury will find guilty/not guilty and if found guilty the magistrate will give a sentence?
#31
Get a solicitor, turn up on the day and see how it goes. Asking for stats on how many people get convicted isn't going to give you an indication of how your case will turn out.

sickly sweet
Grimer
nattynatty
I used to be a Custody Officer (in the cells), from experience it depends on what Judge you get/sometimes their mood on the day too!
I also used to sell house insurance, if you house insurance with legal cover call them they will sort
legal rep and charge will be your policy excess.
To be fair if you plead guilty you will prob get caution and/or fine. If you go not guilty it may be adjourned for pre-sentence report (gather all poss info), depends how far you want to go with this!

You don't get a judge.
You cant get a caution.
Wont be adjourned.


I'm guessing there will be a magistrate and a jury? The jury will find guilty/not guilty and if found guilty the magistrate will give a sentence?


Panel of Magistrates, no jury

Edited By: oldmanhouse on May 25, 2011 23:28
#32
nope. Just 3 Magistrates (magistrates court) Judge and Jury (Crown court)
suspended#33
Grimer
nope. Just 3 Magistrates (magistrates court) Judge and Jury (Crown court)

Yes sorry for my generalisation with using the word Judge!
If no previous offenses why cant a caution be issued?
Why cant it be adjourned?
#34
Cautions are issued by Police, ideally to stop petty cases reaching court.
There's no reason to adjourn, this is drunk and disorderly, not murder. It will be a fine if guilty, i've known it be £60 in the past - less than the bl00dy original ticket!
banned#35
Sh0rty
ok so a solicitor is a must so nobody needs to say anymore on that front!

onto the main problem do i stand a chance? is there any sorta stats for how many get charged when taken to court

100% of people get charged when taken to court!

which shows you really need a solicitor if you plan to plead NG! Either way, the chances of being found innocent are very slim imo. Your word vs coppers isnt gonna play well.

Just get saving cos a solicitor and the fine is gonna cost a hell of a lot more than £80. Not to mention a criminal record which I dont think you'd have got had you paid the £80.

You'll need to inform your employer if convicted too I expect.


Edited By: csiman on May 26, 2011 07:11
banned#36
Grimer
Cautions are issued by Police, ideally to stop petty cases reaching court.
There's no reason to adjourn, this is drunk and disorderly, not murder. It will be a fine if guilty, i've known it be £60 in the past - less than the bl00dy original ticket!


It will get adjourned, he goes along, pleads not guilty, then the CPS will ask for an adjournment as they won't be ready for a trial, they aren't going to have witnesses there ready for a start.
banned#37
I got charged once for drunk and dissorderly. I'd probably only consumed 3 pints and my crime was being cheeky. We'd arrived at the pub late as we'd been watching the world cup. (my local was always heaving, so crap for watching tv.)

Anyway, we all headed for the chinese takaway and while waiting 2 coppers walk in. One then left and waited outside and the other was whispering sweet nothings into the ear of the chinese guy serving for about 4 or 5 minutes. He the turn to leave and headed for the door empty handed. As he did, he heard me mutter "no free meals tonight then".

No fine, just a day in court where I pleaded not guilty and defended myself. I took with me three witnesses who all colaberated the fact I was here because a copper was abusing his power.

It sure was fun telling the copper when being questioned "Look, Everything I've said today is the truth. I've not come here and told a pack of lies like you have." That obviously could have backfired, but fortunately the magistrate could tell I was here for being cheeky and nothing else.

Needless to say I was found not guilty.

There is nothing wrong with defending yourself imho - as long as you are not the nervous type and able to get your points over well. It will definately help your case to have witnesses to state you'd not done a thing wrong.
banned#38
*** Enters thread ***

I'm teetotal by the way

*** Leaves thread ***
#39
colinsunderland
Grimer
Cautions are issued by Police, ideally to stop petty cases reaching court.
There's no reason to adjourn, this is drunk and disorderly, not murder. It will be a fine if guilty, i've known it be £60 in the past - less than the bl00dy original ticket!


It will get adjourned, he goes along, pleads not guilty, then the CPS will ask for an adjournment as they won't be ready for a trial, they aren't going to have witnesses there ready for a start.


Wrong. Once again it's not murder, there will be no adjournment or more wasting of public money, once a verdict is made its a simple case of the magistrates deciding how much to fine him, half an hour to an hour most. The arresting officer likely to be the only witness and maybe a colleague will have been notified the ticket was being challenged in court and will be there on the day to give their evidence. People need to stop watching UK Law and Order!


Edited By: Grimer on May 26, 2011 12:45: .
#40

Edited By: Grimer on May 26, 2011 12:44

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