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after a bit of advice please

the sedge Avatar
7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
my daughters work contract says her hours per week are 8 hrs so if she has a weeks holiday she only gets paid 1 day .. But she normally works more than this does anyone know or have a link ( ive tried goole but can find and answer) as to what decides if she has a right to change this ie if she work 25 hours for x amount of weeks then thats her new contracted hours any advise would be a great help thanks
the sedge Avatar
7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
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[mod]#1
[url]www.direct.gov.uk[/url]
[url]www.berr.gov.uk[/url]
[mod]#2
...from a legal point of view...her contractual hours are what is stated in her contract or terms of employment. That is why "overtime" is commonly used. If they say to her..."We want you to work 10 hours overtime this week" then that is obviously in addition to her contractual hours.

With this in mind, any changes made to her contract of employment (usually wage decrease etc) will breach the contract of employment and the employer/employee can go down the route of constructive dismissal etc.
1 Like #3
I don't think anyone here can really advise you without seeing her contract.

Send her down the Citizens Advice Bureau with a copy of her contract and they'll help her as will the Job Centre.
#4
thanks majicjay but what i mean is
her contract is for 8 hours if she works 35 hours per week for say 6 months is this her new hours of employment and is holiday pay only worked out with hours of contract or actual hours work ?
[mod] 2 Likes #5
the sedge
thanks majicjay but what i mean is
her contract is for 8 hours if she works 35 hours per week for say 6 months is this her new hours of employment and is holiday pay only worked out with hours of contract of actual hours work ?


...if her contract of employment is 8 hours and she works 35 then her holiday pay is only paid on the 8 hours I am afraid. The reason being is that the contract determines what is expected of.

If someone works extra than what there contract contracts states then they can be paid extra for it (determined in the contract) or given TOIL (time off in lieu).
1 Like #6
the sedge
thanks majicjay but what i mean is
her contract is for 8 hours if she works 35 hours per week for say 6 months is this her new hours of employment and is holiday pay only worked out with hours of contract or actual hours work ?


I thought it didnt matter, a friend of mine worked for argos, and often said they employ people on daft hours (approx 8 hours) then extend their house through overtime, so no one can complain when they dont get constant hours. My friend was working full time on this contract for a while....hence why I dont think there is any legal obligation to change the contract.
Would still take it down to the CAB though :)
1 Like #7
she needs to look in her contract and [SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]terms and conditions[/COLOR][/SIZE] to see if holiday time is calculated on accrued hours worked

if she can work this out herself and take details to hr -

some companies still do this - but not many - its worth checking though
#8
depends on her status.....

casual = not much benefits like holidays etc but fulltime people will
#9
I think this is a common exploitation trick by companies. A way of avoiding paying for "extras", such as leave sickness etc.

U can try going to CAB, but I suspect your daughter is wasting her time. It might be interesting legally, testing out one of these contracts where the working practices bear no relation to the contract, but in an "employers market", I suspect u will get nowhere.

It's down to our opt-outs from EU legislation that allows this
#10
The contract, even in writing, is not the be all and end al. As others say, she MUST get proper advice. I doubt the CAB will offer a great deal of (free) help. I don't suppose she is in a Union?
#11
fsm65
I think this is a common exploitation trick by companies. A way of avoiding paying for "extras", such as leave sickness etc.

U can try going to CAB, but I suspect your daughter is wasting her time. It might be interesting legally, testing out one of these contracts where the working practices bear no relation to the contract, but in an "employers market", I suspect u will get nowhere.

It's down to our opt-outs from EU legislation that allows this


yeah that what i was thinking she gets 4 days holiday pay per year what a swizz when she may work 20-30 hours per week any way thanks everyone for the advice youve all posted
#12
fsm65
I think this is a common exploitation trick by companies. A way of avoiding paying for "extras", such as leave sickness etc.

U can try going to CAB, but I suspect your daughter is wasting her time. It might be interesting legally, testing out one of these contracts where the working practices bear no relation to the contract, but in an "employers market", I suspect u will get nowhere.

It's down to our opt-outs from EU legislation that allows this


totally agree with you

only needs one to set a president

but i know from experience to go through terms and conditions carefully -you may find a beauty:thumbsup:
[mod]#13
...jeez...I cant believe how dismissive people can be of the law and the legal advice they are being presented with. If you cant trust a lawyer who can you trust.
[mod]#14
zygo
The contract, even in writing, is not the be all and end al. As others say, she MUST get proper advice. I doubt the CAB will offer a great deal of (free) help. I don't suppose she is in a Union?


...the contract is taken in to account but they also look at irregular working patterns if you exceen your contractual hours too often.

You have no right to additional holiday, even if it's unpaid, unless your contract provides for it.

Your employer can set their own rules on any holidays they give over and above the legal minimum. Your employer is not allowed to give you less than the legal minimum.
#15
magicjay1986
...jeez...I cant believe how dismissive people can be of the law and the legal advice they are being presented with. If you cant trust a lawyer who can you trust.


I have no legal background at all but is there not something called "the law of usual practice"? does this not state that when certain working conditions by an employee have existed for a certain length of time then these become the "accepted norm" by the employer?
[mod]#16
barky
I have no legal background at all but is there not something called "the law of usual practice"? does this not state that when certain working conditions by an employee have existed for a certain length of time then these become the "accepted norm" by the employer?


No. There is not excepted norm. There are "express" and "implied" conditions of employment and there are also terms which are implied by the courts, statute or prescription (which is what you might be touching upon).

People are right, you need to see the contract of employment and the length of time worked under the exceeded hours but the most integral part of employment is the contract of employment.
[mod]#17
casparwhite
depends on her status.....

casual = not much benefits like holidays etc but fulltime people will


Nope. Casual isnt the term you should use. They are either under a contract for services or a contract of service.
#18
Does she work for the co-operative Group by any chance?
#19
magicjay1986
...jeez...I cant believe how dismissive people can be of the law and the legal advice they are being presented with. If you cant trust a lawyer who can you trust.


depends on what kind of lawyers giving advice a criminal lawyer would have hardly any knowledge of employment laws and legislation

phone acas for free
[mod]#20
jamstaruk1972
depends on what kind of lawyers giving advice a criminal lawyer would have hardly any knowledge of employment laws and legislation

phone acas for free


...of course they would!!!!!! You never just learn ONE module of law. You learn them all but specialise in one, two or more.

The OP wants BASIC legal knowledge. That is all. I am a qualified lawyer and specialise in property law, employment, tort, civil litigation and contract. That is how it works.
#21
interesting discussion here
http://www.paypershop.com/phpBB2/holiday-pay-for-casual-staff-t373.html


Casual workers

If a member of staff works on a casual basis or very irregular hours, it is often easiest to calculate holiday entitlement that accrues as hours are worked.
The holiday entitlement of 5.6 weeks is equivalent to 12.07 per cent of hours worked over a year.
The 12.07 per cent figure is 5.6 weeks' holiday, divided by 46.4 weeks (being 52 weeks - 5.6 weeks). The 5.6 weeks are excluded from the calculation as the worker would not be at work during those 5.6 weeks in order to accrue annual leave.
[mod]#22


Ambiguous and doesnt give any legal rights for the scenario we have.
#23
magicjay1986
Ambiguous and doesnt give any legal rights for the scenario we have.


its discusion on the business link site from the gov

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1074414843
#24
she could try contacting http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461 they may be able to help.
[mod]#25
jennybubbles
she could try contacting http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461 they may be able to help.


They would be able to, yes.
#26
magicjay1986
...of course they would!!!!!! You never just learn ONE module of law. You learn them all but specialise in one, two or more.

The OP wants BASIC legal knowledge. That is all. [COLOR="DarkRed"]I am a qualified lawyer and specialise in property law, employment, tort, civil litigation and contract. [/COLOR]That is how it works.


I hope you don't mind, magicjay, but I just thought I'd highlight the fact that you are giving free legal advice and well done to you for doing that.

If all was fair then your reward would be that England regain the Ashes.;-)
#27
magicjay1986
...of course they would!!!!!! You never just learn ONE module of law. You learn them all but specialise in one, two or more.

The OP wants BASIC legal knowledge. That is all. I am a qualified lawyer and specialise in property law, employment, tort, civil litigation and contract. That is how it works.


jay how long did you study to become a qualified lawyer and how long have you been practising?

is that ur date of birth in ur username 86, making you 23:thinking:
[mod]#28
chesso
I hope you don't mind, magicjay, but I just thought I'd highlight the fact that you are giving free legal advice and well done to you for doing that.

If all was fair then your reward would be that England regain the Ashes.;-)


Thanks Chesso. I know the OP appreciates it. I believe in "justice for all" so I dont mind handing out free legal advice. As corny as that sounds!!

If all was fair then yes, England would regain the Ashes. Life isnt fair...so I guess that means they wont!!!! My hopes were really high before the start of the Cardiff test! :x
#29
if she has a right to change this ie if she work 25 hours for x amount of weeks then thats her new contracted hours ...

Your contracted hours as stated above are just that, stated on her contract. She could not change those herself just because... she will need to talk with her employer about increasing her hours on a permanent basis.

The thing is she may work overtime... but she chooses when to work that overtime, if those hours are contracted then she'll have to work them everyweek whether its convenient or not.

If shes on benefits for example they might be affected with an increase in contracted hours etc

If she wants to go full time then theres no point contacting lawyers.. acas.. CAB.. she needs to ask at work whether they would be willing / able / have the capacity to increase her weekly contracted hours.
[mod]#30
casparwhite
jay how long did you study to become a qualified lawyer and how long have you been practising?

is that ur date of birth in ur username 86, making you 23:thinking:


Yes it makes me 23. You need to have studied for 4 years with 5 years post/pre qualification experience. I have studied from 19 to 23 and I have worked at a law firm since I was 16 (whilst also studing sports science concurrently). My qualifying experience is made up from 3 years pre qualifying employment 16-19 and a 2 years exception from the Law Society from the grades gained and previous qualifying employment.
#31
magicjay1986
Yes it makes me 23. You need to have studied for 4 years with 5 years post/pre qualification experience. I have studied from 19 to 23 and I have worked at a law firm since I was 16 (whilst also studing sports science concurrently). My qualifying experience is made up from 3 years pre qualifying employment 16-19 and a 2 years exception from the Law Society from the grades gained and previous qualifying employment.


o'really!

and next you'll be telling me you aquired no debt while doing it "your way"
[mod]#32
casparwhite
o'really!

and next you'll be telling me you aquired no debt while doing it "your way"


...haha...you know what...I did not acquire (note the correct spelling) any debt as the law firm I work for paid it all.

;-)
#33
magicjay1986
...haha...you know what...I did not acquire (note the correct spelling) any debt as the law firm I work for paid it all.

;-)


i love internet dreamers:thumbsup:
[mod]#34
casparwhite
i love internet dreamers:thumbsup:


You question, I answer, you dismiss.

I know the truth...if only you placed more trust in people.

I never come on here and fabricate the truth. I try to come on here and help people.
#35
magicjay1986
You question, I answer, you dismiss.

I know the truth...if only you placed more trust in people.

I never come on here and fabricate the truth. I try to come on here and help people.


i find it extremely hard to believe you can swap 3 years 16-19 of dogsbody duties for higher level education required after acquiring your law degree. which would take 4 years full time with no time for working other than holidays. most law students end up with debts upwards of 30,40 thousand pounds

sorry but to say you are a qualified lawyer at 23 when did you pass your bar exactly?
[mod]#36
casparwhite
i find it extremely hard to believe you can swap 3 years 16-19 of dogsbody duties for higher level education required after acquiring your law degree. which would take 4 years full time with no time for working other than holidays. most law students end up with debts upwards of 30,40 thousand pounds

sorry but to say you are a qualified lawyer at 23 when did you pass your bar exactly?


...you seriously hold no faith...

http://www.ilexcareers.org.uk/what_is_a_legal_executive.aspx
[mod]#37
casparwhite
that doesnt help your case in the slightest:?


Haha. How on earth does it not? Qualified lawyer...specialising in certain subject of which I have offered advice.
#38
magicjay1986
Haha. How on earth does it not? Qualified lawyer...specialising is certain subject of which I have offered advice.


it certainly doesnt correlate with what you just explained?
[mod]#39
casparwhite
it certainly doesnt correlate with what you just explained?


...you need to elaborate. How does it not? If you are looking for my route of qualification I am more than happy to provide further links from the website. I have nothing to hide.
#40
magicjay1986
...you need to elaborate. How does it not? If you are looking for my route of qualification I am more than happy to provide further links from the website. I have nothing to hide.


im actually interested, will pm





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