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Any frontpage boffins out there? table and firefox issue

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Hey all, im doing a basic website with frontpage, I have created a table in excel and used it as the template. But, when I type in text, and look at the page in firefox, all the tables change size!!!… Read More
aircanman Avatar
8y, 2m agoPosted 8 years, 2 months ago
Hey all, im doing a basic website with frontpage, I have created a table in excel and used it as the template. But, when I type in text, and look at the page in firefox, all the tables change size!!!

If i view it in internet explorer, they are fine.

Is there any way I can overcome this?
aircanman Avatar
8y, 2m agoPosted 8 years, 2 months ago
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#1
Some browsers act oddly with tables and cells. If you can, reduce the physical size of the table as much as possible by dragging the sides of the table and cells in. Hopefully Firefox wont distort your table then.
#2
Front Page is not longer being developed or supported by Microsoft, the last version being Front Page 2003.

Microsoft have replaced it with a set of programs called Expression, the one for web design being called Expression Web.

Front Page had a bad reputation amongst web designers as it created much non-standard HTML and did not follow many of the "rules" for HTML. (as usual Microsoft tried to push HTML down the route it wanted to go rather than trying to work to the standards) and for that reason it should not really be used.

Also web sites nowadays tend to use Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) and support for CSS in Front Page is very poor.

Microsoft push very strongly that Expression Web is now "standards based" and so it does generate "proper" HTML and support for CSS is good, so if you are going to use a Microsoft product use Expression Web (although there are plenty of non-Microsoft products as well).

More on Expression here

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/
#3
Are you using the table for just displaying rows and columns of data, or are you using them to "layout" the page into various sections.

If you are using it to layout the page then tables should not really be used for that, you should really use CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) for page layout.

You say you have created the table in Excel and used it as a template. Did you do that by saving the Excel spreadsheet as HTML?

If so then Excel has probably created about 10 times more HTML than you actually need.

When you save a Microsoft Office file as HTML (such as a Word document) it always generates enough HTML to turn it BACK into an Office document if it needs to, but this is probably about 10 times more HTML than it needs to display it on a web page.

If you are going to use Front Page then forget creating the table in Excel first but create it directly in Front Page as that will not generate as much HTML and it will be easier to see what the HTML is doing and change it if you need to.

If you are using tables for layout read these:

http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/everything.html

http://webdesign.about.com/od/layout/a/aa111102a.htm

http://davespicks.com/essays/notables.html
#4
firefox sees the tables differently too IE , e.g. ie is built to see frontpage styles while ff isnt

learn css @ [url]www.w3schools.com/css[/url] & html @ [url]www.w3schools.com/html[/url] and come upto the 21st centrury :w00t:

if you want me to whip you up a basic design and then you can add the content then just pm me :) (im bored so willing to do this)
#5
I did a search in Google for "Tables in firefox" and "Front Page tables in firefox" and found a few sites, see if any of them help (below are just a couple of examples).

It does seem as though it is down to Front Page generating non-standard HTML.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=824565&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

http://help.lockergnome.com/office2/Tables-Firefox-problem--ftopict800813.html

http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/help/viewtopic.php?t=4001&start=0
#6
faevilangel
firefox sees the tables differently too IE , e.g. ie is built to see frontpage styles while ff isnt

learn css @ [url]www.w3schools.com/css[/url] & html @ [url]www.w3schools.com/html[/url] and come upto the 21st centrury :w00t:

if you want me to whip you up a basic design and then you can add the content then just pm me :)(im bored so willing to do this)


if you're bored you can get my template done lol

If you can, stay away from Frontpage - its ****. I found that out by trail and error. Got a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, and haven't looked back.
#7
A brief explanation of why HTML standards are so important.

When the web and HTML first started there were only about 12 HTML statements.

The first browser of any note was Netscape and they could pretty much add any new HTML statement they felt like (which they had to support in their browser).

Then Microsoft came out with IE, and they started adding any HTML statements THEY felt like (again they had to support it in their browser).

The problem was that Netscape started to refuse to add support to THEIR browser for Microsoft HTML, and Microsoft started to refuse to add support to IE for any Netscape HTML.

This was the begining of "browser wars" and it was a nightmare trying to write HTML that would work in both IE AND Netscape ,and every other browser.

The problem is that Front Page came out during this browser wars and it generated HTML that worked fine in IE, but did not work so fine in other browsers (hence the problem you are hitting).

Then a group of people started the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) which would set standards for HTML, CSS and other web technologies.

http://www.w3.org/

The idea was that EVERY web design product would GENERATE standard HTML, and every browser would SUPPORT standard HTML.

While IE has been getting better at supporting web standards (but it is not there yet) Firefox was designed from the ground up to support web standards.

So we hit the problem where your Front Page product is generating BAD (non standard) HTML, which will not display in a standard complient browser like Firefox.

Solution, stop using Front Page.
#8
The other soulution is to ensure your HTML is standards based.

You can validate your HTML here.

http://validator.w3.org/#validate_by_input

Copy and paste your HTML in this window, then press "Check", and it will tell you what HTML statements are not valid (be prepaed for it to be a lot).

You can then correct them in your HTML, then it should work in every browser.
#9
The other important thing is that you should make sure you have a DOCTYPE statement at the top of each web page.

This DOCTYPE statement tells the web browser what version of HTML you are using, and it will render it accordingly.

If you DONT include a DOCTYPE statement the browser goes into Quirks mode and it tries to render the HTML as best it can.

You are probably best using this DOCTYPE statement

"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

Here is a bit more about the DOCTYPE statement

http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html

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