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Anyone been through a pay pal dispute as a seller? Advice?

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I recently sold an item worth around £200 on ebay and gave a number of different postage options. The cheapest one I offered was Recorded Delivery and this was the option chosen by the buyer. Needless… Read More
boomboom Avatar
9y, 5m agoPosted 9 years, 5 months ago
I recently sold an item worth around £200 on ebay and gave a number of different postage options. The cheapest one I offered was Recorded Delivery and this was the option chosen by the buyer. Needless to say it didnt offer the adequate cover but thats what the buyer chose so thats the method I used. I posted the item and kept the receipt and tracking number etc, and it seems like the item has been lost in the post as it has not been delivered and was posted 4 weeks ago.
The buyer has put a dispute in to pay pal and is threatening to escalate it to a claim. Am I totally covered or is there a chance that pp could decide in favour of the buyer?
Anyone gone through this before and can give me some advice? Its really stressing me out as I have done everything that the buyer requested but I have also heard stories about pp favouring the buyer in situations like this. Any help would be very much appreciated!!
boomboom Avatar
9y, 5m agoPosted 9 years, 5 months ago
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banned#1
i think it is your responsibilty till the buyer recieves it, therefore its your loss
#2
They'll favour the buyer, because you didnt provide adequate postage terms. You should have put the lowest of specialdelivery next day or a private courier, all I can say is "learn from your mistakes"
#3
Is the buyer verified? Someone bought a Wii from me with a stolen credit card/account through Paypal, and I was deemed liable because the buyer wasn't verified.
#4
Hi
If it is recorded delivery the PO should be able to track it,as it would need to be signed for. Chase up the PO and get them to find out where the parcel is,as it needs to be "recorded" for there records
#5
Paypal will almost certainly favour the buyer because they say that Recorded Delivery is not a trackable method of postage!

I am completely fed up with Paypal to be honest, as are the vast majority of people that have had the misfortunate of being involved in an ebay dispute using paypal

Did you take the extra insurance with Royal Mail with it being worth more that £34 by the way?
#6
What he means rehydrated is the item is only insured for £34.

If the PO can't find it hell only get 34 back.
#7
Also,if the buyer choose not to have appropriate cover I think he is responsible,as he was taking the risk and knew the value the item would have been covered up to (£34 I think) should it not get delivered. If you stated this in your listing then you are covered (ie. buyers responsibility to pay for adequate insurance,if not paid for buyers responsibility not mine etc.)
#8
Im 100% sure the buyer has got it... It's the biggest scamon eBay/Paypal and a legal way to steal goods. I have also been through this, buyer received item and decided it was not worth what she paid (*****). I was then blackmailed by Paypal that the funds had been taken away from me and wouldnt be released unless I agreed to reduce the price by £30... I had too.
#9
vinylandtrinkets
they will find for the buyer almost every time . ive got one in dispute the buyer said he didnt recieve the item, i sent it recorded delivery and its waiting for him in his local sorting office, dipstick didnt realise that recorded delivery & next day delivery is trackable, but i bet i still lose this one even thought i provided all the info paypal want.. £75.00 down the swany


They should return the item to you after 7 days.
#10
Unless Royal Mail find it it's going to be harsh on whoever Paypal decide to favour, I hate leaving stuff like this in the hands of paypal, why should they play god?
#11
Damn, I thought that they would side in my favour. It says in their accepted postage methods that Signed For Recorded is accepted and thats what I posted it with. Plus I gave the buyer a range of options and they selected the cheapest one that didnt cover them. How is that my fault?

The buyer is verified, as am I.
#12
They don't play "God" they have signed a deal with the "Devil"
#13
boomboom
Damn, I thought that they would side in my favour. It says in their accepted postage methods that Signed For Recorded is accepted and thats what I posted it with. Plus I gave the buyer a range of options and they selected the cheapest one that didnt cover them. How is that my fault?


I kind of agree with you as you offered a cheaper riskier method of postage and it's not your fault that they didn't take the more expensive safer option that was open to them (although if you were adding extra costs on to the more expensive options I would favour the buyer, i.e some people double/treble whatever Royal Mail would charge.
#14
Also,if the buyer choose not to have appropriate cover I think he is responsible,as he was taking the risk and knew the value the item would have been covered up to (£34 I think) should it not get delivered. If you stated this in your listing then you are covered (ie. buyers responsibility to pay for adequate insurance,if not paid for buyers responsibility not mine etc.)


Walk into a court of law in the UK with that defense and they will laugh at you.

It is the sellers responsibility to make sure that the goods are send adequately packaged and fully insured. If the item gets lost or damaged in the post then its the seller who has to cough up, regardless of whether insurance is paid for or not.

Y9ou can add all the disclaimers at the bottom of the listing you like, but the fact remains that until the item reaches its destination it is entirely the sellers responsibility.

Regardless of the legal ramifications here, if the OP sold something that had a value of £200 and only sent it recorded delivery they deserve to get shafted. I mean, how stupid was that? Really.

A very valuable lesson, and a very expensive one too.
banned#15
boomboom
Damn, I thought that they would side in my favour. It says in their accepted postage methods that Signed For Recorded is accepted and thats what I posted it with. Plus I gave the buyer a range of options and they selected the cheapest one that didnt cover them. How is that my fault?

The buyer is verified, as am I.


i am totally lost, wy would you think that the buyer would lose out on £200 for an item they never recieved:?
#16
boomboom
Damn, I thought that they would side in my favour. It says in their accepted postage methods that Signed For Recorded is accepted and thats what I posted it with. Plus I gave the buyer a range of options and they selected the cheapest one that didnt cover them. How is that my fault?

The buyer is verified, as am I.


You should have offered postage to cover it though..

it's common sense really.
#17
Plus I gave the buyer a range of options and they selected the cheapest one that didnt cover them. How is that my fault?


Because the item is your responsibility, not the buyers regardless of the postage method used.

Next time, only offer the postage method that will FULLY cover you in all eventualities.
#18
To be fair to the OP, recorded is usually a very safe method and is a far cheaper option and usually a buyer would be happy to take the risk of just having recorded if they are going to save a fair few quid, it's only in very rare cases like this that it all goes wrong that it's looks foolish.
#19
they always decide in favour of the buyer, proper bad.

Look at:-

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/jump2?catId=400028&mediaId=500201&keyname=RECORDSIGN
#20
I sent an item by 1st class recorded delivery last week (31st Jan) then had the buyer aske me when it would be delivered as he had been waiting for four days, i responded by giving him the recorded delivery reference no. and suggested he check at his local sorting office to see if it was there & the postman forgot to put a card through his door & when he went there to check it was there!! Maybe you should give them the reference number & ask them to go to the sorting office to check?:) hope it all works out for you...
#21
it's only in very rare cases like this that it all goes wrong that it's looks foolish.


Dont get me wrong, I have sent things worth £40 or £50 via recorded knowing that they will not be covered in case of loss, but i understood the risk and that I would be out £15 or so if it went missing. But £200?. LOL I'm sorry, i find this all quite amusing. Yes the buyer knew that it was the cheapest postage, heck I would choose the cheapest postage too if I had the choice. The seller also knew that he had not got enough insurance on it, so why should the buyer suffer? They simply chose from a selection of postage amounts offered by the seller.

By offering and sending the £200 item for the cheapest method the OP was fully aware that this situation may arise and therefore have to face up to the consequences of their actions.

harsh I know, but thats the situation and its no good wrapping it up in cotton wool.
#22
Y9ou can add all the disclaimers at the bottom of the listing you like, but the fact remains that until the item reaches its destination it is entirely the sellers responsibility.

I thought the whole point of a "disclaimer" was to make the parties concerned aware of "risks" ie. don't pay for the item to be sent insured it is at your OWN risk. If this is clearly stated and you were to walk in to a court of law,I doubt that you would be laughed at,as the "party" in this case was clearly made aware of the risks and chose not to pay extra to cover himself. His fault.
If I buy something from Ebay,and don't pay for Special Delivery or other courier insurance,it is my fault,not the guy I bought it from :?
banned#23
i take it you have checked RM website to see where it is?
#24
I thought....


You thought wrong unfortunately.

If this is clearly stated and you were to walk in to a court of law,I doubt that you would be laughed at,as the "party" in this case was clearly made aware of the risks and chose not to pay extra to cover himself.

And the seller knew that they were sending out the item without adequate insurance regardless of what the buyer requested. Like I said, until the item reaches its destination its is the sellers responsibility.

It is the sellers fault for providing a means of sending the item with lack of insurance. Not the buyers fault for using it.

If I buy something from Ebay,and don't pay for Special Delivery or other courier insurance,it is my fault,not the guy I bought it from


Simple lack of understanding I am afraid. You have it totally wrong.
#25
If you have a record (email) of the buyer agreeing to recorded delivery and a receipt for postage then doesn't that cover you a fair bit. If you offered courier service but this was declined doesn't this mean it was the buyers decision to risk it.

When you say "lost in the post" do you mean the buyer claims he never got it? It's seems to be a scam at the moment for people to claim they never recieved an item because they know paypal will steal their money back for them.
#26
If you have a record (email) of the buyer agreeing to recorded delivery and a receipt for postage then doesn't that cover you a fair bit.


Nope

If you offered courier service but this was declined doesn't this mean it was the buyers decision to risk it.


Nope again. The seller should not have even been offering postage methods that did not fully cover the item in the event of a problem. Dont offer the cheap postage and the problem does not happen. Therefore its the sellers fault and they have full responsibility.
#27
Simon_G
Dont get me wrong, I have sent things worth £40 or £50 via recorded knowing that they will not be covered in case of loss, but i understood the risk and that I would be out £15 or so if it went missing. But £200?. LOL I'm sorry, i find this all quite amusing. Yes the buyer knew that it was the cheapest postage, heck I would choose the cheapest postage too if I had the choice. The seller also knew that he had not got enough insurance on it, so why should the buyer suffer? They simply chose from a selection of postage amounts offered by the seller.

By offering and sending the £200 item for the cheapest method the OP was fully aware that this situation may arise and therefore have to face up to the consequences of their actions.

harsh I know, but thats the situation and its no good wrapping it up in cotton wool.


Yeah, I don't totally side with the buyer, but it would be very harsh to let the seller absorb all of the responsibility, if he hadn't have offered other option then yes let him take the full wrap but the fact that he offered safer more expensive option and it was declined suggests the buyer should take at least some of the financial loss too IMO.
#28
Simon_G
Walk into a court of law in the UK with that defense and they will laugh at you.

It is the sellers responsibility to make sure that the goods are send adequately packaged and fully insured. If the item gets lost or damaged in the post then its the seller who has to cough up, regardless of whether insurance is paid for or not.

Y9ou can add all the disclaimers at the bottom of the listing you like, but the fact remains that until the item reaches its destination it is entirely the sellers responsibility.

Regardless of the legal ramifications here, if the OP sold something that had a value of £200 and only sent it recorded delivery they deserve to get shafted. I mean, how stupid was that? Really.

A very valuable lesson, and a very expensive one too.


Very blunt, but also very true. Here endeth the discussion:thumbsup:
#29
Checked the rm website and it has not been delivered. Thats why I think it has been lost in the post. I have put a claim in to rm to investigate and hopefully they will come back with something.
Im worried though as if they find the parcel will it go to the buyer or come back to me? If they win their claim and I lose the money and then the item goes to them then they have it and their money back.
#30
if he hadn't have offered other option then yet let him take the full wrap but the fact that he offered safer more expensive option and it was declined suggests the buyer should take at least some of the financial loss too IMO.


And there is the problem. Generally people have no idea as to their responsibilities when it comes to selling items to others. The fact remains that the goods are the responsibility of the seller until the buyer receives them, regardless of postage method used or disclaimers laid out.
#31
I have been using Ebay since 2000. Over the years I have seen many listings that clearly states that insurance will only be provided at buyers expense,or words to that effect. In the nearly 8 years I have been using it Simon,are you telling me that all these people are wrong,and that the info that they provide isn't worth the pixels it's written in,as no matter what,if I sell something and the buyers pays for,let's say second class post on an £800 guitar,and it doesn't get delivered,or gets damaged that it's my fault? Lol. Now,personally I wouldn't send such an expensive item without charging for total cover,also,I would like to think that the buyer would also be aware of the risks and would not request it,but if he knows the risks,as stated in say my "disclaimer" but still requests to opt. for the cheaper option,then it is clearly his choice,as his fault if anything happens to the item,as he never paid for cover. If he doesn't pay for it,what buyer would pay another £20 or whatever it is out of his own pocket/profits to cover the item if the buyer never paid for it and chose how he wanted an item to be sent? Are you a lawyer? Even then,we have Scots law,English law,European law,and
Sharia law :p
#32
Checked the rm website and it has not been delivered. Thats why I think it has been lost in the post. I have put a claim in to rm to investigate and hopefully they will come back with something.


If it is genuinely lost then all the RM will come back with is a cheque for £34 (or whatever it is now).

Im worried though as if they find the parcel will it go to the buyer or come back to me?


That depends and they should ask you as to what you want doing with it.

If they win their claim and I lose the money and then the item goes to them then they have it and their money back.


Thats a possibility, but really, what else do you expect when you put yourself in this position in the first place?
#33
I have been using Ebay since 2000. Over the years I have seen many listings that clearly states that insurance will only be provided at buyers expense,or words to that effect. In the nearly 8 years I have been using it Simon,are you telling me that all these people are wrong,and that the info that they provide isn't worth the pixels it's written in,as no matter what,if I sell something and the buyers pays for,let's say second class post on an £800 guitar,and it doesn't get delivered,or gets damaged that it's my fault? Lol.


Laugh all you like but that is the way it is. If I bought an £800 guitar from you I would make sure I paid via credit card to protect myself further. If it got or damaged in the post the post I would claim a chargeback and I WOULD get my money back, regardless of your or anyone elses disclaimer. Even if I had paid via bank transfer or paypal, the situation is the same. The buyer will always try and get the cheapest postage, however the seller knows the implications of the insurance etc if they do not cover it fully. If you dont offer the cheaper postage you don't have the problem. This is the reality of it.

Now,personally I wouldn't send such an expensive item without charging for total cover,also,I would like to think that the buyer would also be aware of the risks and would not request it,but if he knows the risks,as stated in say my "disclaimer" but still requests to opt. for the cheaper option,then it is clearly his choice,as his fault if anything happens to the item,as he never paid for cover. If he doesn't pay for it,what buyer would pay another £20 or whatever it is out of his own pocket/profits to cover the item if the buyer never paid for it and chose how he wanted an item to be sent?


Totally agree, but what kind of seller would even offer cheaper postage, UNLESS they really do not understand the implications of what they are doing.....See where I am going with this?

Are you a lawyer? Even then,we have Scots law,English law,European law,and
Sharia law


Having been shafted to the sum of £400 a while back, I took some time out of my life to look into this. And yes, it is TOTALLY the sellers responsibility regardless of what you have been told or think.
#34
Simon_G
Having been shafted to the sum of £400 a while back, I took some time out of my life to look into this. And yes, it is TOTALLY the sellers responsibility regardless of what you have been told or think.


But only if it's paid for by paypoo ;-)

Any other method and a seller can right royally screw a buyer. So in summation...

Paypal is excellent for buyers and **** for sellers.
banned#35
boomboom
Checked the rm website and it has not been delivered. Thats why I think it has been lost in the post. I have put a claim in to rm to investigate and hopefully they will come back with something.
Im worried though as if they find the parcel will it go to the buyer or come back to me? If they win their claim and I lose the money and then the item goes to them then they have it and their money back.


where is the last record of it, thought recorded was updated as it left each depot?
#36
Well I suppose I will just await the outcome. Thanks for the replies, both sympathetic and unsympathetic, and the lively debate. After all of it I am gutted and pooing myself (if it is possible to do both?) but have at least learned something. I will still fight and argue with pp, dont get me wrong. I havent resigned myself totally to losing this, but I am now prepared if the outcome at the end of it all goes the buyer's way.
#37
sassie
where is the last record of it, thought recorded was updated as it left each depot?


The only tracking it has is proof of delivery. At least that is the only info available to me. They should be able to track it internally (Im hoping) via the different depots etc so that they will be able to see where exactly it went missing.
#38
Boomboom, I should add that a similar thing happened to me a few years ago,sort of. I asked my gf to post away something for me to a buyer (external pinnacle box thingy then about £198) She forgot to send it special,and sent it normal delivery! Buyer said that he never received it,took out a claim with PP, they swiped back the money from my account. Gutted,angry,what are you meant to do...Had threating phone calls from the guy before he contacted PP. It was a nightmare....About 7 weeks later I log in to PP and have the funds returned to my account,and an email from the guy saying that he received it! What happened,who knows,guilt,karma ,he needed the cash,total mystery. All I can say is,you got to have faith. KEEP THE FAITH :thumbsup:
#39
Make sure you let us know how this one resolves boom boom, good luck.
#40
Money Spinning
Make sure you let us know how this one resolves boom boom, good luck.


That would have been easier if someone hadnt expired this thread but oh well

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