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Apple Criticism seems to be growing

£0.00 @ Apple
The question is whether it's justified? I'd like to hear some opinions, Until Apple stop the attitude of: Steve Jobs "People should buy a new iPod every 12months" With regard to warranty or "A… Read More
schizoboy Avatar
7y, 10m agoPosted 7 years, 10 months ago
The question is whether it's justified? I'd like to hear some opinions,

Until Apple stop the attitude of:

Steve Jobs "People should buy a new iPod every 12months" With regard to warranty
or
"Apple couldn;t build a $300 Netbook without it being crap"
or
Hardware availably identically from Dell at £950 but is £1800 from Apple (my experience nearly 3 years ago on my laptop)

I don't see Apple improving
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schizoboy Avatar
7y, 10m agoPosted 7 years, 10 months ago
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banned#2
Apple are all looks no substance. Its like buying a new vauxhall or ford.
#3
Umm, criticism on the web is growing because, well, that's what the web is for. More and more anti-apple Fanbois are coming out of the woodwork these days (that said you can apply that to most things really... sad when you think about it). Recently they've come under a bit of fire here for raising prices in line with the dollar but the recent price cuts should help that quite a bit and they've had some build quality issues (that I've been bitten with which is why my next machine is likely to be a hackintosh) but sales are still VERY positive for Apple, they continue to build their userbase month after month and build the best consumer level machines around.

Basically, most (if not all) the moaning you here that's related to things other than reliability are geeks who get obsessed over specs and forget their are other considerations. Example - the huge amount of whining over the new iPhone only having a 3 mega pixel camera where others have 8 or, soon, 12 megapixels. This ignores the fact that anything above about 5 megapixels in a phone tends to risk degrading picture quality, that sending photos to twitter, flicker and the like from a mobile works best with smaller picture sizes and that the quality is entirely dependant on the combination of sensor, lens and software. Sure, if they get into reviewers hands and the camera is crap, THEN complain but to do so based on spec is just stupid.
#4
For like for like hardware comparison it;'s fair imo, i don't care how enamoured people become over a GUI.

I agree re: camera though, 12mp cameras coming out which I imagine will actually be inferior images to 3mp/5mp older mobiles.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/18/50-percent-of-your-iphone-purchase-to-pad-apples-wallet/

http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/23/your-200-ipod-nano-costs-about-90-to-make/
#5
i started on the pc, and am an average geek.
mac all the way, hands down, always has been for 20 years now ... never going back to the pc.
steve jobs and his commitment to design something better today is inspiring.


i have a G4 refurb that i bought in 2002 and it is still working (albeit slower than my work one) and i do my main work at home here. the pc i bought (top of range, RAM packed etc) has kaputz after two years, too many crashes, too bulky, too friggin' unreliable ... the way the mac is designed suits my brain and how i think.
banned#6
Checkout the lack of a forward facing camera for video calls. They are 5yrs behind in features but 1yr ahead (and losing ground) in design.
banned#7
They're probably getting about as much criticism as any other tech company out there. They actually reduced prices on some of their Macbook Pro lines yesterday and the new OS will only cost $29 to upgrade.

That seems pretty fair to me.

The iPhone is another story. The upgrade list on the hardware side probably underwhelmed a lot of people, but the main problem is with O2's pricing structure.

But like someone else said, the internet is made for complaining.
#8
how many people do you actually know who use video calls?

listen you dont become as sucessfull as apple without knowing what your doing, they'll have done their market research and left out such features becuase they're not deemed important enough to the consumer to warrant the integration.

You'll always get little pockets of bloggers wanting more saying this and that should have been included, some of it may well be in future OS updates but they are in the minority..... over 21m iphones sold to date they're doing something right.
#9
I wonder if that makes Nokia "Microsoft" with 470million sold.

When it came to the original hype and form factor PR in 2007/8 Apple should of been applauded, but considering it's cost in a Global Recession, and that people will still buy it, whether they'll get value or not from it, it's still funny watching all the sheep follow :)
#10
I couldn't give a fig about video calls, don't need it, don't want it, like most things in life, you pays your money and takes your choice, If you don't like Apple and its products simple don't buy.
#11
schizoboy
I wonder if that makes Nokia "Microsoft" with 470million sold.


you're talking about 2 different versions of the same model of phone compared to nokias extensive range and well over a decade in the market, your comment is fundamentally flawed.

Want to talk about sheep? how many of nokia phones have been the exact same hardware just in a different shell?
#12
MinstrelMan;5441559
you're talking about 2 different versions of the same model of phone compared to nokias extensive range and well over a decade in the market, your comment is fundamentally flawed.

Want to talk about sheep? how many of nokia phones have been the exact same hardware just in a different shell?


Because Apple have never, ever, ever done that? :)
#13
schizoboy
Because Apple have never, ever, ever done that? :)


what with all 2 of their phones? :w00t:
#14
MinstrelMan;5441591
what with all 2 of their phones? :w00t:


I meant with all their devices etc, the Shuffle came to mind etc.
#15
i have an Iphone and the thing is okay. Best touch screen phone out there, but to many problems to list. In two minds about buying the newer version and likely won't due to future finicial comitments. I don't like apples products most of the time I think there over rated by the few pure apple fans. I'd rather use a PC yes it may have its flaws but it isn't going to cost me the world, and is easily replaced/upgraded at a lower cost. Apples design team are good as good as there advertising team, like Tescos force there products on people by bending the truth slightly. If anyone were to take the Linux base seriously and make a mass market version for a lower price I could see that taking a major margain out of both.

Ipod though is rubbish always has been, better products from Sony and creative, but yet again design and good advertising has won the masses.

In my opinnion Apple has its applications, and so does a pc. It depends on what you want to use it for. I'd would buy whatever fit my purpose.
#16
schizoboy
I meant with all their devices etc, the Shuffle came to mind etc.


I'm not talking about other products, I've simply been discussing issues regarding the iphone
#17
MinstrelMan;5441630
I'm not talking about other products, I've simply been discussing issues regarding the iphone


The topic is regarding Apple :)
banned#18
schizoboy
I wonder if that makes Nokia "Microsoft" with 470million sold.

When it came to the original hype and form factor PR in 2007/8 Apple should of been applauded, but considering it's cost in a Global Recession, and that people will still buy it, whether they'll get value or not from it, it's still funny watching all the sheep follow :)


Maybe not all the people buying Apple stuff care about the recession? I spend so much time on my laptop that I think paying for the best UI possible is worth it.

From your OP you clearly think Apple is overpriced, but that is wholly subjective.

It doesn't make people 'sheep'.
banned#19
Adam2050


Ipod though is rubbish always has been, better products from Sony and creative, but yet again design and good advertising has won the masses.

.


This is a common problem for people who criticise Apple.

The products are rubbish, but they're well designed??? Surely that makes them good, at least in some people's eyes.

I'm sure I could get better sound quality with another product, but I really haven't ever thought that my music needs to be any higher quality.

Right now I'm listening to Kiss Alive on Spotify through my Macbook speakers. For me the sound quality is good enough, for others maybe not.
#20
filth I expect Computer wise you are more right, iPhone wise, no way, far more kudos was attached to getting that device, so much PR and hype that followed and I know people right now who would leave their contract if they could and/or waiting for their contract to end so that they can make their mobile bill more sane.
#21
schizoboy
The topic is regarding Apple :)



so you might need to read my entire post before quoting it, trying to get in a smart ass answer, get shot down and then try and bring in other products totally unrelated to my original post which was a response to lumok re. video calling :thumbsup:
#22
Nah I was replying that you were right, Nokia have repackaged the same hardware, my point was so had Apple, I never mentioned that my point was exclusive to mobile devices.
banned#23
schizoboy
filth I expect Computer wise you are more right, iPhone wise, no way, far more kudos was attached to getting that device, so much PR and hype that followed and I know people right now who would leave their contract if they could and/or waiting for their contract to end so that they can make their mobile bill more sane.


I think you may have a point about the bills now, but that's more a criticism of O2. I can understand why they've jacked up the PAYG price, but the contract deals are pretty rubbish.

But that's what comes from having an exclusive deal with one operator. It's a shame another operator hasn't gotten the rights too, but I still think that the iPhone is the leading phone in it's class.

The Pre is underwhelming in some areas, Android isn't quite there yet and Blackberrys are still primarily business oriented.
#24
FilthAndFurry
This is a common problem for people who criticise Apple.

The products are rubbish, but they're well designed??? Surely that makes them good, at least in some people's eyes.

I'm sure I could get better sound quality with another product, but I really haven't ever thought that my music needs to be any higher quality.

Right now I'm listening to Kiss Alive on Spotify through my Macbook speakers. For me the sound quality is good enough, for others maybe not.


Thats the point if your happy with your product thats fine. But I like to listen to my music on something that doesn't wipe itself at the sign of another computer or try to at least, uses a poor piece of software which tries to make you buy stuff.

There are nice and shinney but I've used a lot of products, I agree that apples ipod is the main market winner and there are very good reasons for this, but its not for me.:thumbsup:
#25
Interesting stuff. I have to say that many folks just don't seem to get Apple stuff. For me the advantage of Apple is their whole "just works" philosophy. I can wander into a shop, buy a Mac and once un-boxed it will be ready to use seriously well under 30mins. With a PC I'll be sitting for hours installing, updating, configuring until I get something remotely usable. Even from powering one up for regular use I can be productive a lot quicker on a Mac than a PC because everything is designed to work together. The only thing that PC's clearly win on is games, Apple really haven't got their act together on games yet.

Same with the phones, although I refuse to buy an iPhone because 1. I really don't like O2 due to past bad experiences and 2. It's too damn expensive. So I ended up with a WinMo phone, and I don't think I've ever regretted a purchase more, lots of great features and the specs looked fantastic at the time but the interface sucks, even simple tasks take so much time and effort it's actually a pain to use the damn thing as a phone. I really couldn't care less about forward facing cameras, 12 megapixel resolutions, etc. I just want something that works and I don't need waste 1/2 my life configuring and wrestling with to make useful.
#26
schizoboy
Nah I was replying that you were right, Nokia have repackaged the same hardware, my point was so had Apple, I never mentioned that my point was exclusive to mobile devices.


ohhhhh right........ so when we talk about nokia and apples share of the mobile phone market, and I say a majority of nokias are just repackaged and you say so are apples, my comment can be tied to the actuall discussion while yours is applied to everything in the whole wide world ever, if thats the case I'd have opted for a better example than the shuffle, perhaps warbutons bread? :roll:
#27
MinstrelMan;5441774
ohhhhh right........ so when we talk about nokia and apples share of the mobile phone market, and I say a majority of nokias are just repackaged and you say so are apples, my comment can be tied to the actuall discussion while yours is applied to everything in the whole wide world ever, if thats the case I'd have opted for a better example than the shuffle, perhaps warbutons bread? :roll:


Indeed! :thumbsup: Congrats on taking pedantism to a new level :roll:
#28
schizoboy
Indeed! :thumbsup: Congrats on taking pedantism to a new level :roll:


your very welcome. :thumbsup:
#29
megalomaniac
Interesting stuff. I have to say that many folks just don't seem to get Apple stuff. For me the advantage of Apple is their whole "just works" philosophy. I can wander into a shop, buy a Mac and once un-boxed it will be ready to use seriously well under 30mins. With a PC I'll be sitting for hours installing, updating, configuring until I get something remotely usable. Even from powering one up for regular use I can be productive a lot quicker on a Mac than a PC because everything is designed to work together. The only thing that PC's clearly win on is games, Apple really haven't got their act together on games yet.




First point is utter rubbish. You buy your pcs from some silly company like PC world thats what you get, but if you buy it from a good seller then you won't get any of that.
#30
Adam2050
First point is utter rubbish. You buy your pcs from some silly company like PC world thats what you get, but if you buy it from a good seller then you won't get any of that.


I build my own, and I think you'll find most people do buy from "some silly company" like PC World or Dell but thanks for your input. :thumbsup:
#31
My God this arguement gets tiresome, and believe me after seeing it for 20yrs after every new product from apple...

Whats the deal? Some people like Apple Products Some People Like PC/Microsoft/Nokia.

They all flippin break at times, I have used PC/Microsoft/Nokia along side my Apple gear for a long long time, and I have always prefered the Apple gear, its my personal taste I could argue pros and cons for both products but whats the point someone always comes along being either an Apple Fanboi or other Corporate Fanboi and spoils the discussion with sweeping statements.

God wouldn't it make a great discussion for a PC user to say Why thats a nice Feature on that Apple but We have something Similiar from Microsoft not quite as good etc.

Or

Hmmm I wish Apple would integrate a few features from Windows 7 and fix the Formatting issue so NTFS can be written to by OSX.

Apple are tiny in comparison to PC/Microsoft/Nokia companys they have to be more agressive and choosey on features they think are going to sell more products in their target market.

Apple have done very well for a company that was going under in the 90's so they are doing something right, not to everyones taste though.

Personally I would never have an iPhone unless it was FOC, they are way over priced, nice bits of kit but silly money.
#32
megalomaniac
I build my own, and I think you'll find most people do buy from "some silly company" like PC World or Dell but thanks for your input. :thumbsup:


So you point wasn't valid then, as you know it can take a lot less. :thumbsup:

People are starting to learn thats why retailers are strugging pushing there over priced systems.
#33
Operating System - the arguments are rubbish, some people like Windows, others like Mac, and others like Linux. Use what you're happy with, saying that someone else's choice is WRONG despite the fact they're happy with it is just stupid.

iPhone - there's a lot of phones at that price mark, and others even more expensive. If you're happy to pay that price for a phone, and are happy with how it performs then what's the issue? Not everyone likes the iPhone, but that's the same as everyone having different taste in music, or everyone buying a different brand of TV.

Hardware - Apple hardware doesn't depreciate in the same way as normal PC hardware, their laptop screens are something you only get on really premium non-Windows laptops, plus the operating system itself, some people just love it and therefore can justify paying the extra amount for a quality product (from their point of view).

Basically...
Apple-bashers are as a bad Apple-fanbois.
There's no better product, just whatever you like
I have a Mac and a PC and I like both for different reasons.
#34
Adam2050
So you point wasn't valid then, as you know it can take a lot less. :thumbsup:

People are starting to learn thats why retailers are strugging pushing there over priced systems.


It was still very valid. Take reading a PDF for example, I have to download and install something to do it on my Windows machine, on my Mac it does that out of the box. Burning CD's/DVD's; if I want to burn an ISO, for example, my Mac does it out of the box, on Windows I need to install software to do that. I could list a whole host of similar things. Ok, so if I buy one from a shop maybe some of that stuff comes pre-installed, but then I'll have to spend time removing the crap I don't want like trial software etc.

Anyway my point was that I use both; but if I just want to get on and do something quickly and easily I'll put the Mac on, if I want to tinker, program, play games or something of that ilk I'll put the PC on. Like others have said horses for courses :thumbsup:

EDIT: I'm actually hoping Linux will start taking off a bit more, as that has the potential to offer the best of both worlds for a lot less £....
#35
Just a curiousity to the iPhone owners - is it really true that the iPhone can't multitask?
#36
I am not sure exactly what Apple have done regarding marketting and so on, but I always got the impression that the iPhone was like a starter pack and then they tried to encourage people to then buy a Mac and so on. Now without doubt the iPhone is amazing and probably one of the best products in a long time.. Although I wouldn't consider a Mac to be in the same league as an iPhone, so if I bought a Mac based on my impression of the iPhone I think I would be a little bit disillusioned.

The iPhone I consider to be so good and had such a media storm around it that no matter what company made it/sold it, all their other products would pale in comparison. So if your going to use any product to push the rest of your product portfolio, you best be sure they can live upto the high expecations your customers are going to have.

If they don't.. I guess you should expect a bashing and you probably deserve it.
#37
On the Iphone their is no reason whatsoever that the first one could not have come with 3G, a 3 Megapixel camera and a memory card slot. These three features would have kept most people very happy with their purchase for a few years, important considering they are getting tied into 18-24 month contracts. The Iphone will be netting them at least £300 per unit and they have proved with the Touch that near the same kit can be produced for half that, these features don't cost that much too add, even 2 years ago. The memory upgrade trick has been going strong with them since their first flash Ipods. They have always made upgrading memory capacity massively expensive and completely out of line with Flash prices. The result is that new models with higher capacities look even more attractive, who would be so bothered if they could stick a 16GB Micro SD in their 1GB Nano at a cost of £18. They are (successfully) encouraging regular upgrades through this methodology , but as other manufacturers are catching up with the style and interface, they really need to find another rabbit to pull out the hat which I don't think the 3s sounds like.

The other bugbear is their regular attempts to block competition. For instance I bought a dock for my Ipod Touch 2G that the manufacturers website and packaging claimed worked on the Touch. Got it home to find out it didn't work because Apple had changed the connections on the pins slightly. Was glad I had a £20 dock as I would be gutted having spent £300 or more on a premium dock to find my new phone / mp3 was incompatible for no good reason. Forced use of I tunes also is very anti-competitive, why can't we drag and drop? Does anyone else remember the fuss about MS bundling Internet Explorer with Windows in the late 90's? I-tunes is like Windows ONLY working with Internet Explorer, then trying to sell you everything you search for from the new MS superstore.

On the computer front they offer less power for more money. It is simply a question of whether you want to pay for the style and interface or spend your cash on performance. I tried a Mac Mini and sent it back as I can do everything I want quicker on a Windows or Linux system, but I know plenty of people who are happy converts. I don't actually think Apple uses underhand tactics in there PC range of products, their is no system in place to keep you upgrading and they don't stop you from using third part mice, keyboards, etc.
#38
iphone sells cus its got apps, which are easy to download stright through itunes which most people already use.

windows phone OS is crap,, thats why apple is winning.

you get charged loads as only o2 sell it and only apple make it.
if you dont like it, dont get it.
#39
Without going through the whole thread, my quick opinion simply is that recent apple products have been huge commercial successes, they have entered the mobile arena very late, but yet established a strong fan base and grabbed a respectable market share most operators will kill for within such a short time. The market holds it's breath for Apple announcements and it dominates internet boards as soon as it's made, no other manufacturer has this impact and it only goes to show how successful and influential apple have become.

The only apple product I've ever owned was an ipod mini several years ago and I've not been tempted by any other Apple product since. The newly announced Ipone 3GS was one of my potential upgrade targets but the prices are just ridiculous in my opinion, but this won't stop a mad rush on launch date and huge sales figures it's predecessors have enjoyed.

So while I'm of the opinion apple products are over-priced and not as functional as rival products, I have a whole lot of respect for Apple, it's identity, and for continuously delivering strong successful products based on a style ethos.

Apple is definitely getting more things right than wrong and not everyone like myself will buy into them, but they have definitely shaken the market and can be credited with the progress in touch screen advances on mobiles from competitors playing catchup, and for that I'm grateful regardless of what I think of their pricing.

Rizza
#40
Rizza
Without going through the whole thread, my quick opinion simply is that recent apple products have been huge commercial successes, they have entered the mobile arena very late, but yet established a strong fan base and grabbed a respectable market share most operators will kill for within such a short time. The market holds it's breath for Apple announcements and it dominates internet boards as soon as it's made, no other manufacturer has this impact and it only goes to show how successful and influential apple have become.

The only apple product I've ever owned was an ipod mini several years ago and I've not been tempted by any other Apple product since. The newly announced Ipone 3GS was one of my potential upgrade targets but the prices are just ridiculous in my opinion, but this won't stop a mad rush on launch date and huge sales figures it's predecessors have enjoyed.

So while I'm of the opinion apple products are over-priced and not as functional as rival products, I have a whole lot of respect for Apple, it's identity, and for continuously delivering strong successful products based on a style ethos.

Apple is definitely getting more things right than wrong and not everyone like myself will buy into them, but they have definitely shaken the market and can be credited with the progress in touch screen advances on mobiles from competitors playing catchup, and for that I'm grateful regardless of what I think of their pricing.

Rizza

Good point well made.

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