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Are you religious/do you believe in 'god'?

Unbelievable_Jeff Avatar
6y, 1m agoPosted 6 years, 1 month ago
Do you? What are your views on the idea of a 'higher power'?

Keep all responses clean and inoffensive please, no need to get personal.

New discussion: what (if any) effect do you think a religious upbringing has on your children? Do you think its a positive influence?
Unbelievable_Jeff Avatar
6y, 1m agoPosted 6 years, 1 month ago
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3 Likes #1
Personally, I was raised a catholic but have been through an lengthly education where strength of evidence was applied to arguement and a emphasis on logic was prized; and the result is that although I love the "idea" of a higher entity, logically I cannot accept it.

However, I think religion can offer a very good structure of morals and provide a nice way to raise your kids, etc. I am glad I was raised a catholic because I feel it helped me develop as a good person, and my parents let me make my own mind up when I was old enough.
1 Like #2
I am not religious and I do not believe in any sort of god or gods or karma type stuff or the hegemony of Ra or Zeus or any other superstitions. I know that the sun will 'rise' if I fail to sacrifice a young person, so I don't do that either..
#3
In short, no.
#4
CReilly
Personally, I was raised a catholic but have been through an lengthly education where strength of evidence was applied to arguement and a emphasis on logic was prized; and the result is that although I love the "idea" of a higher entity, logically I cannot accept it.However, I think religion can offer a very good structure of morals and provide a nice way to raise your kids, etc. I am glad I was raised a catholic because I feel it helped me develop as a good person, and my parents let me make my own mind up when I was old enough.

About +1 to this ^^^^







Edited By: Marina on Oct 30, 2010 13:07: ....
#5
I dont believe at all. My wife does tho-but its never caused any problem-people are free to believe what they like-I just personally find the idea ridiculous. Over the years have met far too many religious zealots who believe entire groups of people are damned for all time because they dont believe.

Evangelists manipulating the "word of god" to justify hatred/islamic extremists/israeli death squads etc etc-I could go on forever-too many people invoke god to justify evil,it sickens me.
#6
I wasnt raised religious but come from a very religious family uncle was a pastor then missinary, sister is ordained. I have been able to read quite alot of the scientific arguments from the opposing side and have to say it's made me doubt that the theory of evolution is the simple answer everybody is indoctrinated with. I have quite a nice leaning towards intelligent design.
banned#7
CReilly
Personally, I was raised a catholic but have been through an lengthly education where strength of evidence was applied to arguement and a emphasis on logic was prized; and the result is that although I love the "idea" of a higher entity, logically I cannot accept it.

^^^^^^ Me

CReilly
However, I think religion can offer a very good structure of morals and provide a nice way to raise your kids, etc. I am glad I was raised a catholic because I feel it helped me develop as a good person, and my parents let me make my own mind up when I was old enough.

^^^^^^ Not me

Edited By: JonnyTwoToes on Oct 30, 2010 13:07: ..
[mod] 4 Likes #8
This won't end well.........usual suspects will be around soon enough to make sure of that.

Personally i like to keep personal things to myself rather than feed the idiots.
#9
Syzable
This won't end well.........usual suspects will be around soon enough to make sure of that.Personally i like to keep personal things to myself rather than feed the idiots.


Hopefully there will be enough sensible people on this thread to outnumber the trolls; and who cares about them anyway? :)
#10
Randa1
I wasnt raised religious but come from a very religious family uncle was a pastor then missinary, sister is ordained. I have been able to read quite alot of the scientific arguments from the opposing side and have to say it's made me doubt that the theory of evolution is the simple answer everybody is indoctrinated with. I have quite a nice leaning towards intelligent design.


Care to give your side of that arguement? I've yet to be presented with a decent alternative (though havn't been activley looking tbh) and when I google it I get loadssss of rubbish to wade through.
#11
Very fitting Avatar. But this will not end well as Syzable has said. Hope the familars keep out as well as the over talkers.
#12
CReilly
Randa1
I wasnt raised religious but come from a very religious family uncle was a pastor then missinary, sister is ordained. I have been able to read quite alot of the scientific arguments from the opposing side and have to say it's made me doubt that the theory of evolution is the simple answer everybody is indoctrinated with. I have quite a nice leaning towards intelligent design.
Care to give your side of that arguement? I've yet to be presented with a decent alternative (though havn't been activley looking tbh) and when I google it I get loadssss of rubbish to wade through.
Well i cant say i'm a rabid exponent of it so you'll have to forgive the laymans terms, but one that caught my eye was viruses, one i think was salmonella, they have a biological motor that comprises 36 parts, now without anyone of these parts it wouldnt work, so how does it evolve over time?
#13
I also find it interesting that Richard Dawkins has actually said that the theory of evolution cant be proved but has to be accepted on faith.
#14
Randa1
Well i cant say i'm a rabid exponent of it so you'll have to forgive the laymans terms, but one that caught my eye was viruses, one i think was salmonella, they have a biological motor that comprises 36 parts, now without anyone of these parts it wouldnt work, so how does it evolve over time?


Not my area of expertise at all but could mutation be an alternative to evolution in this case? (Forgive me if that makes no sense, I'm a history major :D)
#15
Randa1
I also find it interesting that Richard Dawkins has actually said that the theory of evolution cant be proved but has to be accepted on faith.
I very much doubt that he has said that and if he has slipped and said something similar then it does not at all reflect his actual thinking.

There is a good thread already on HUKD with the arguments for ID and evolution set out.
thread here

As the scientists said in that thread, there is no faith/belief aspect to science and there is no reason why evolution is not compatible with a religious adherence.

This thread has moved from the benefits of religious upbringing in terms of morality; what a shame.

Salmonella is a type of bacterium.
banned 1 Like #16
hornblowerracing
In short, no.


+1

Fairy story for adults scared of dying.

Causes more harm than good :(
#17
CReilly
Randa1
Well i cant say i'm a rabid exponent of it so you'll have to forgive the laymans terms, but one that caught my eye was viruses, one i think was salmonella, they have a biological motor that comprises 36 parts, now without anyone of these parts it wouldnt work, so how does it evolve over time?
Not my area of expertise at all but could mutation be an alternative to evolution in this case? (Forgive me if that makes no sense, I'm a history major :D)
I did history as well :) i'm not sure i'm trying to remeber the name of the article, it had some very interesting points, such as a lot of the earlier so called "missing links" that were found have proven to be fakes but are still included in academic books. To be honest i'm a sucker for this kind of stuff.
#18
chesso
This thread has moved from the benefits of religious upbringing in terms of morality; what a shame.


To bring us back then, a quick google tells us that theres a big debate regarding religious upbringing and a strenghened society - but the majority of links seem to suggest that atheist areas have lower crime rates. Although I can see why there would be less extremism I AM suprised that petty crime would be lower; although I am sure its not suitable for generalisation I went to a catholic primary school in quite a poor area and nearly every student is now leading an educated and law-abiding life; whereas the other local schools seem to have produced nothing but chavs and teenage parents.

Again I am not suggesting that this is by any means conclusive but perhaps it does explain why to me personally a religious upbringing seems like a good idea.
#19
chesso
Randa1
I also find it interesting that Richard Dawkins has actually said that the theory of evolution cant be proved but has to be accepted on faith.
I very much doubt that he has said that and if he has slipped and said something similar then it does not at all reflect his actual thinking.There is a good thread already on HUKD with the arguments for ID and evolution set out. thread hereAs the scientists said in that thread, there is no faith/belief aspect to science and there is no reason why evolution is not compatible with a religious adherence.This thread has moved from the benefits of religious upbringing in terms of morality; what a shame.Salmonella is a type of bacterium.
As i said i'm not an expert so you'll have to forgive the lack of knowledge about bacterium and viruses, however Richard Dawkins has said this, actually i think he wrote it, so it's not a slip up, i'm now going to have to try and find where it was quoted from...
#20
CReilly
To bring us back then, a quick google tells us that theres a big debate regarding religious upbringing and a strenghened society - but the majority of links seem to suggest that atheist areas have lower crime rates. Although I can see why there would be less extremism I AM suprised that petty crime would be lower; although I am sure its not suitable for generalisation I went to a catholic primary school in quite a poor area and nearly every student is now leading an educated and law-abiding life; whereas the other local schools seem to have produced nothing but chavs and teenage parents.Again I am not suggesting that this is by any means conclusive but perhaps it does explain why to me personally a religious upbringing seems like a good idea.

Now this is interesting.
You, as an historian, will have discussed these aspects of religion, no doubt many times, but I haven't really given it any thought or done any reading, other than a bit on the internecine destruction that can occur when religious societies clash ...... and that it's the topic here.

TBH I have said once to twice to my hubby that it must be quite a 'nice thing' to have religious mores to fall back on when dealing with e.g. kids doing what is right. The religious person can point to the rules of that religion but the non-religious must try to explain a moral imperative on a humanist level.

Your refs^ suggest:
All this information points to a strong correlation between faith and antisocial behavior -- a correlation so strong that there is good reason to suppose that religious belief does more harm than good.

At first glance that is a preposterous suggestion, given that religions preach non-violence and sexual restraint. However, close inspection reveals a different story. Faith tends to weaken rather than strengthen people’s ability to participate in society. That makes it less likely they will respect social customs and laws.


Your own experience mitigates against this, as I might personally have expected.

Interesting to see that the research uses evolution as a parameter as well. The intellectual argument is difficult.

Lunch time!
#21
I always find it odd that atheist argue that religion causes problems. because if you dont believe in God than the fact is religion is a manmade phenomena, something man has created and therefore religion is not to blame but man(or woman)
banned#22
I don't believe in any God. There are however morality aspects within religion that are worthwhile and respectable. Unfortunately most of the teachings seem to me to be rambling fairy stories that have no point or purpose in the modern world we live. Some religions appear to prefer we don't live in the modern world, which is fine, though I'd prefer they kept themselves in that world and out of mine.

Worshipping the sun has some sanity to it (since its definitely real, does affect our lives and without it, we'd all be dead), however, like imaginary gods, its a pointless futile exercise.

I still love the red dwarf sketch with the newsreader reading out the Bible preface that had just been found, which said...."all characters portrayed within this book are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead are purely coincidental." Very conceivably believable IMHO.
#23
Randa1
As i said i'm not an expert so you'll have to forgive the lack of knowledge about bacterium and viruses, however Richard Dawkins has said this, actually i think he wrote it, so it's not a slip up, i'm now going to have to try and find where it was quoted from...

If he has slipped up then it is of very little consequence. Reading his books makes it crystal clear that Richard Dawkins does not in any way think that the theory of evolution can't be proved but has to be accepted on faith.These Channel 4 programmes by Richard Dawkins make his views transparent for anyone not familiar with his work.

Edited By: chesso on Oct 30, 2010 14:00: italics
#24
Randa1
I always find it odd that atheist argue that religion causes problems. because if you dont believe in God than the fact is religion is a manmade phenomena, something man has created and therefore religion is not to blame but man(or woman)

thats a bit too simplistic tbh-of course you can be an atheist and argue that religion causes problems-"religion" is NOTHING to do with god-if it was then everyone would be the same religion wouldnt they? you can believe in god without going to church every week,or attending mosque or synagogue-does someone become closer to god by doing these things or is it simply enough to believe?

so of course I can argue that "religion" causes problems without believing in god-they are actually 2 separate things-god is taken on faith and its therefore impossible to scientifically prove his existence,but religion is around us everywhere,we can see it so its an entirely different thing.

how can the bible be the "word of god",but also the quoran is and the torah? how is that possible?because they were written by MEN-thats why.We have a local baptist church here-they preach that the dinosaurs never existed,women have less ribs than men(even baptist DOCTORS believe this! and cant see the insanity of it),all gay people are damned for all time,anyone who has sex before marriage is damned forever-these people dress up in their sunday best and go to worship "god",and cannot even see the hypocrisy of worshipping a loving god while spouting bile and hatred.

Incidentally,I should point out that there are several different baptist sects and not all are as extreme.
#25
chesso
Randa1
As i said i'm not an expert so you'll have to forgive the lack of knowledge about bacterium and viruses, however Richard Dawkins has said this, actually i think he wrote it, so it's not a slip up, i'm now going to have to try and find where it was quoted from...
If he has slipped up then it is of very little consequence. Reading his books makes it crystal clear that Richard Dawkins does not in any way think that
the theory of evolution can't be proved but has to be accepted on faith.
These Channel 4 programmes by Richard Dawkins make his views transparent for anyone not familiar with his work.

I dont think it was a slip up,would be a very stupid one for a man in his position to make, when i find the quote i'll put the source on here.
#26
Well i think it's quite a simple idea, man has used religion to control and manipulate people, if religion didnt exist then some other ideology would be used such as communism, it's man that seems to have an inherent need for these kind of social structures.
banned#27
Randa1
I always find it odd that atheist argue that religion causes problems. because if you dont believe in God than the fact is religion is a manmade phenomena, something man has created and therefore religion is not to blame but man(or woman)


Men are evil :(
#28
Randa1

I dont think it was a slip up,would be a very stupid one for a man in his position to make, when i find the quote i'll put the source on here.

I'll be surprised if you can find such a quote from Dawkins as it's pretty much the opposite of his viewpoint, it sounds like either a misquote or misunderstanding. One of his books last year 'The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution' was written to explicitly define the evidence for evolution as it had been assumed in previous titles. I don't see evolution as any sort of indoctrination although that idea is somewhat amusing given that's the source for so called 'intelligent design' as is the idea of reading scientific arguments for evolution and rejecting them in favour of a one that has absolutely no scientific grounding. Currently there is no contrary scientific theory of any merit (intelligent design certainly doesn't count as such), therefore evolution does hold as a theory.

John

Edited By: Johnmcl7 on Oct 30, 2010 14:17: .
#29
I don't subscribe to the the idea of religious morals. Most morals are just sensible things that should be done and very little aspects of religion about them.

As for God i don't believe and i don't not believe, his existence has little bearing on my life. Science and logic don't disprove the idea of higher energies, which the God essentially is and i doubt they ever will.

As for evolution the prokaryotic flagellum likely came to being as a result of several mutations. In the end the one that achieving its goal more efficiently resulted in the cell surviving, while the other mutations simply died out. Mutations in flagellar composition are observed in bacterium all the time. Which leads to the question why would an intelligent designer leave mutations in the finished product?
banned 1 Like #30
if there is no god why are we burning an occupied wicker man here tomorrow?
#31
Ok in answer to the question "What Do You Believe Is True Even Though You Cannot Prove It?" Richard Dawkins gave this answer "I believe that all life, all intelligence, all creativity and all 'design' anywhere in the universe, is the direct or indirect product of Darwinian natural selection. It follows that design comes late in the universe, after a period of Darwinian evolution. Design cannot precede evolution and therefore cannot underlie the universe." This is a link although i read it in a magazine not here, http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_6.html

So basically although it's something he "believes" he cannot prove it, which is not that weird as it still the "theory" of evolution.

Edited By: Randa1 on Oct 30, 2010 14:45: add
#32
whatsThePoint
if there is no god why are we burning an occupied wicker man here tomorrow?


Forge the community together?
#33
What does everyone think, then, about the relationship between religious upbringing and a strong, moralistic society?

As cheeso linked to before, evolution has been discussed in another thread :)
#34
CReilly
What does everyone think, then, about the relationship between religious upbringing and a strong, moralistic society?

As cheeso linked to before, evolution has been discussed in another thread :)


Without a doubt Christianity has had a profound affect on the British philosophy of life. While there are fewer people willing to accept religion nowadays and people who refuse to accept that it has had a bearing on their lives i think that our society has the spirit of Christianity deeply ingrained in it. But theses aspects really have nothing to do with a belief in God, but are more do do with not being a total fud. Perhaps in the past we needed the idea of religion behind it to enforce it, but i believe that was more to do with lack of education.

In the some-what enlightened and civil times we exist educated people can understand why these morals exist without the need for fear.

The tl;dr version:
In the past religion was perhaps needed to scare people into living a just life. However, the more educated the general populace become the need for religion to enforce morals becomes less and less.
#35
chesso
I am not religious and I do not believe in any sort of god or gods or karma type stuff or the hegemony of Ra or Zeus or any other superstitions. I know that the sun will 'rise' if I fail to sacrifice a young person, so I don't do that either..
Pretty much sums it up nicely for me.
CReilly

However, I think religion can offer a very good structure of morals and provide a nice way to raise your kids, etc. I am glad I was raised a catholic because I feel it helped me develop as a good person, and my parents let me make my own mind up when I was old enough.
My problem with this is if you take religion out of the equation "good morals" don't cease to exist. My parents weren't religious at all yet ,like you, i feel i'm a "good" person.
2 Likes #36
Sorry CReilly, but I have to put the record on Dawkins straight and then I am out of here.

Randa1
I also find it interesting that Richard Dawkins has actually said that the theory of evolution cant be proved but has to be accepted on faith.
Randa1
Ok in answer to the question "What Do You Believe Is True Even Though You Cannot Prove It?" Richard Dawkins gave this answer "I believe that all life, all intelligence, all creativity and all 'design' anywhere in the universe, is the direct or indirect product of Darwinian natural selection. It follows that design comes late in the universe, after a period of Darwinian evolution. Design cannot precede evolution and therefore cannot underlie the universe." This is a link although i read it in a magazine not here,http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_6.htmlSo basically although it's something he "believes" he cannot prove it, which is not that weird as it still the "theory" of evolution.
You have confused a religious-type belief with a general statement, along the lines of 'I believe that there is a strong assocaition between many types of fungi and trees'.

Richard Dawkins does not believe that the theory of evolution cant be proved but has to be accepted on faith. He believes precisely the opposite, that evolution is a factually correct explanation of the observable evidence.

A theory is NOT an untested guess. It a carefully crafted answer to a scientific question, designed to be tested against falsification. Once it is tested, it is still a theory, as it can still be changed, altered or modified as needed as a result of additional observations or experiments indicate the need for it.

Richard Dawkins - Evolution is a fact

Edited By: chesso on Oct 30, 2010 15:57: link
#37
I believe in God, but am not getting into any arguments over it :) The arguments have been done countless times on here and the threads always get nasty (both sides guilty).

Has anyone seen the new Costa Coffee ad on TV? What message, besides their coffee, do you think they are sending out? The wording, in my opinion, is very clever. BTW. This is connected to this thread, so take notice of the ad next time you see it. The last comment on it is the punchline.
#38
I believe in God. but not the God come out of those religion storys. I had couple times nearly death experiences, and I remember my last life when I was a baby ( I know it's sounds funny), I truly believe life after death.
banned#39
Dimpler
I believe in God. but not the God come out of those religion storys. I had couple times nearly death experiences, and I remember my last life when I was a baby ( I know it's sounds funny), I truly believe life after death.


I'm confused - you believe in 'Allah' because he tried to kill you twice, or because you're important enough to keep around?
#40
Dimpler
, and I remember my last life when I was a baby ( I know it's sounds funny)

No, it doesn't sound in the least bit funny. It sounds ridiculous.

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