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AVForums ban ALL Mobile Phone Sales

Unhinged Avatar
6y, 3m agoPosted 6 years, 3 months ago
Surely this is an over-reaction as the scammers can simply use something else, I.e Ps3 consoles ?
Unhinged Avatar
6y, 3m agoPosted 6 years, 3 months ago
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banned#1
i am very surprised hukd hasnt put a ban on phones along time ago, they are such an easy thing to get scammed on
#2
I dont blame them, would never buy or sell a mobile phone as it's a scammers paradise.
banned 1 Like #3
Surely this is an over-reaction as the scammers can simply use something else, I.e Ps3 consoles ?


When was the last time a ps3 was barred and unusable because someone reported it stolen?
What did they say when you posted on there?
#4
Ther trouble with phone transactions is that they can be blocked many months after the sale has gone throu, so can understand the ban in that respect.

However the majority of disputes i see are for non-receipt rather than a phone being blocked




Edited By: Unhinged on Oct 17, 2010 15:28: added more
banned 1 Like #5
Unhinged
Ther trouble with phone transactions is that they can be blocked many months after the sale has gone throu, so can understand the ban in that respect.


So you understand why its been done but think its an overreaction?
banned#6
Phones aren't an issue here, members ability to follow the trading advice in full is our issue, albeit very small, but always highlighted when it goes wrong across all categories of sales.
#7
wonder if it had anything to do with that box of rocks iphone trade. anyway it's a total over reaction and along with the recent spoiler nonsense as well just adds to the demise of a once great site.
#8
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/morningstar31/overreaction.jpg



The scammers will move to hukd now, yay!!! More fun threads. :D
#9
http://www.avforums.com/forums/mobile-phone-classified-adverts/1342178-mobile-phone-trading-now-not-permitted-avforums.html

Personally I agree with them.

Main problem sees to be with a lot of contract phones being blocked after sale.

Edited By: boothy on Oct 17, 2010 15:34: jpo'upo
banned#10
boothy
http://www.avforums.com/forums/mobile-phone-classified-adverts/1342178-mobile-phone-trading-now-not-permitted-avforums.html

Personally I agree with them.


Main problem sees to be with a lot of contract phones being blocked after sale.


me too, you only have so long to put in a paypal dispute, and those that then report them and get them blocked know exactly how long to wait, as for buying away from ebay you have little you can do
#11
example...and final nail in coffin for phones on AV....although buyer never got details and it appears seller was a serial multi scammmer
http://www.avforums.com/forums/disputed-problem-trades/1326588-sale-samsung-galaxy-s-2.html

Edited By: boothy on Oct 17, 2010 15:48: p[k
banned#12
The pass the parcel event with rocks in a box was alarming for many reasons but I'm assuming that the effort taken to resolve (or attempt to resolve) was far too time consuming and frankly not worth the investment in effort.

I'm sure the scammers will move on, but as always, members have to be careful with whom they are trading with, and always ensure you have fully verified details for escalation away from the site if required.
#13
if you have a look at the disputed trades section there are an equal number of disputes involving games and consoles so I doubt the barring of phones later on whilst occaisionally happening is a major reason for the ban.
banned#14
sassie

me too, you only have so long to put in a paypal dispute, and those that then report them and get them blocked know exactly how long to wait, as for buying away from ebay you have little you can do


I disagree. With full contact details and fully verified, members should always be in a position to escalate directly.
#15
ants97
if you have a look at the disputed trades section there are an equal number of disputes involving games and consoles so I doubt the barring of phones later on whilst occaisionally happening is a major reason for the ban.


from AV


This type of fraud has become more active in recent months and as there is no obvious solution to prevent phone blocking once a phone has been sold, the trading of mobile phones has been been banned on AV Forums.
banned#16
aScottishBloke
sassie

me too, you only have so long to put in a paypal dispute, and those that then report them and get them blocked know exactly how long to wait, as for buying away from ebay you have little you can do


I disagree. With full contact details and fully verified, members should always be in a position to escalate directly.


that your perogative

alot of phone deals may even be dealt with face to face, so cash exchanged, and after its been blocked a month down the line there really aint much you can do to prove anything
#17
maybe but I don't think it's the main reason for the ban. the vast vast vast majority of disputes involve items not recieved.
#18
I for one see this becoming a big issue for HUKD. A quick look at todays listings already shows trades that have moved over from AV, so surely the number of "bad trades" will escalate on here?

ants97
maybe but I don't think it's the main reason for the ban. the vast vast vast majority of disputes involve items not recieved.


That was my point, Only a small percentage of mobile trades go bad due to phones being blocked.

Also i personally know a guy who took a laptop he bought of ebay in for repair with tech guys (insurance package was included with the sale). When he returned he was informed that they had handed the laptop to the police as it was stolen, and 18 mths later he still has no laptop or refund. . . . .

Edited By: Unhinged on Oct 17, 2010 15:56: .
banned#19
ants97
maybe but I don't think it's the main reason for the ban. the vast vast vast majority of disputes involve items not recieved.


which if paid for via paypal as a normal payment rather than gift can be sorted via paypal, phones turning up and being blocked months down the line cannot be
#20
aScottishBloke
Phones aren't an issue here, members ability to follow the trading advice in full is our issue, albeit very small, but always highlighted when it goes wrong across all categories of sales.


But all of the rules can be followed and the phone could still be blocked, yea you have their address etc but it will only help in a police investigation. Personally I think It's a good idea
#21
sassie
ants97
maybe but I don't think it's the main reason for the ban. the vast vast vast majority of disputes involve items not recieved.


which if paid for via paypal as a normal payment rather than gift can be sorted via paypal, phones turning up and being blocked months down the line cannot be


unless the account has already been emptied of course. which would then leave you in much the same way as if the mobile was blocked. If you had follwed the guidelines then in both scenarios you would have enough info to pursue the case via courts and police etc.
banned 1 Like #22
ants97
sassie
ants97
maybe but I don't think it's the main reason for the ban. the vast vast vast majority of disputes involve items not recieved.


which if paid for via paypal as a normal payment rather than gift can be sorted via paypal, phones turning up and being blocked months down the line cannot be




unless the account has already been emptied of course. which would then leave you in much the same way as if the mobile was blocked. If you had follwed the guidelines then in both scenarios you would have enough info to pursue the case via courts and police etc.


i personally think banning the sale of mobile phones a good one, just my opinion, never understood why they have been allowed when so easily can be blocked, you cannot block a neclace, a book, a ds, etc,etc
#23
maybe something could be added to the rules cautioning people to the risks of contract phone trading?

obviously only about 1% of people actually read them but it couldn't do any harm...
banned#24
sassie

that your perogative

alot of phone deals may even be dealt with face to face, so cash exchanged, and after its been blocked a month down the line there really aint much you can do to prove anything


Sorry, but you're not understanding my point. By not following the advice in full, you leave yourself open to risk. Using your example, If I was buying a mobile person to person, it would be done at their premises, not at some random venue in town.

I'd have their details, fully verified and I'd ensure they repaid every penny, not by violence, but using the full range of civil options available (or escalation to the police).

Too many people get stung, don't admit to it and go underground for fear of exposing themselves as fools. It's a shame though, but really easy steps can be taken to limit the losses.

You can be sure that the vast majority of sellers who intended to scam would never invite anyone round to their premises. People in general just need to stop rushing in, take a breath and reflect.
#25
aScottishBloke
Phones aren't an issue here, members ability to follow the trading advice in full is our issue, albeit very small, but always highlighted when it goes wrong across all categories of sales.

To be fair it's exactly the same issue they have over on AVF, when they were hit with that serial scammer a few months ago there were many discussions on extending the rules but one of the mods/admins had pointed out that their current rules were fine it's just people didn't follow them. He then gave an example that had occurred that day where someone had handed over money to a newly registered user with no feedback for an Iphone which was under market value and they'd failed to follow any of the rules.

John
banned#26
ASB reducing the risk is all well and good, not everyone is as savvy as you, most people arent even aware that the phone could get blocked down the line, and to be honest when you have a contract phone it really doesnt belong to you until you have paid 24 x months or whatever the contract is, if you default the providers do have the right for the return of the phone should they see fit
#27
aScottishBloke
[Sorry, but you're not understanding my point. By not following the advice in full, you leave yourself open to risk. Using your example, If I was buying a mobile person to person, it would be done at their premises, not at some random venue in town.

I'd have their details, fully verified and I'd ensure they repaid every penny, not by violence, but using the full range of civil options available (or escalation to the police).

Too many people get stung, don't admit to it and go underground for fear of exposing themselves as fools. It's a shame though, but really easy steps can be taken to limit the losses.

You can be sure that the vast majority of sellers who intended to scam would never invite anyone round to their premises. People in general just need to stop rushing in, take a breath and reflect.

How does the rules save the buyer if in 6 months the phone gets blocked and the seller has moved house?
#28
Johnmcl7
aScottishBloke
Phones aren't an issue here, members ability to follow the trading advice in full is our issue, albeit very small, but always highlighted when it goes wrong across all categories of sales.


To be fair it's exactly the same issue they have over on AVF, when they were hit with that serial scammer a few months ago there were many discussions on extending the rules but one of the mods/admins had pointed out that their current rules were fine it's just people didn't follow them. He then gave an example that had occurred that day where someone had handed over money to a newly registered user with no feedback for an Iphone which was under market value and they'd failed to follow any of the rules.

John


That was the PM scammer thing I assume,they tried it on with me,I was offering on a used macbook and they created a near identical id,and pm'd me saying they would sell it etc etc....led them on for a few emails,they gave me a phone number and eventually an address in Liverpool(when I offered to send them an iphone as a swap)....passed all the info onto AV,not sure what happened in the end.

But I know that AV does not activate PM's now until a mod sees a completed deal done in a FS thread...which is a good thing

Edited By: boothy on Oct 17, 2010 16:07: rge
banned#29
pinkleponkle


How does the rules save the buyer if in 6 months the phone gets blocked and the seller has moved house?


you would have his name and old address
#30
and how does that help?

I have never understood the reasons behind wanting to buy a second hand phone. It's lik owning a ticking timebomb.

Edited By: pinkleponkle on Oct 17, 2010 16:10: missed a bit
banned#31
new members on here arent even aware they have no cover, i think its sad that they get laughed at because they thought they did have some kind of back up or help, it doesnt make them stupid just a little naive and they certainly dont deserve to get ripped off, and your rules are such a state no wonder nobody reads them
banned#32
sassie
ASB reducing the risk is all well and good, not everyone is as savvy as you, most people arent even aware that the phone could get blocked down the line, and to be honest when you have a contract phone it really doesnt belong to you until you have paid 24 x months or whatever the contract is, if you default the providers do have the right for the return of the phone should they see fit


Thats complete rubbish. When you buy a phone on contract it is yours from day one. The phone and airtime contract are two completely seperate entities. The provider has no right whatsoever to ask for the phone back.
#33
sassie
ASB reducing the risk is all well and good, not everyone is as savvy as you



Have to agree with this,there are a handful of members on here who can spot a dodgy thread a mile away....however the majority cant,I know we cant protect people from themselves but these are high value,high risk items.
#34
boothy


That was the PM scammer thing I assume,they tried it on with me,I was offering on a used macbook and they created a near identical id,and pm'd me saying they would sell it etc etc....led them on for a few emails,they gave me a phone number and eventually an address in Liverpool(when I offered to send them an iphone as a swap)....passed all the info onto AV,not sure what happened in the end.

But I know that AV does not activate PM's now until a mod sees a completed deal done in a FS thread...which is a good thing

No, this one was a straight forward sale as they put the item up for sale as normal but despite all the obvious issues with the sale by the time the mods were onto it two people had already tried to buy the phone and I think one had paid up. It's more understandable when people don't get the contact details for well established members on small items but I was surprised at the lack of caution when dealing with such a questionable looking sale.

John
banned#35
sassie
ASB reducing the risk is all well and good, not everyone is as savvy as you


So what?

Why should I not be allowed to buy/sell a phone because some retards don't understand the risks or choose to ignore them?

Based on your ridiculous conclusion, we should probably just ban life and have done with it.
banned#36
boothy
maybe something could be added to the rules cautioning people to the risks of contract phone trading?

obviously only about 1% of people actually read them but it couldn't do any harm...


Good idea. If its in the guidelines/rules then people can't complain when they get scammed. Thats the problem though, hardly anyone follows the rules and the vast majority of scams would fail if they were followed. If I were buying a high value item I just wouldn't continue with the trade without a verifiable landlane number and address at the very least. I know it wouldn't guarantee a safe sale but it would certainly increase your chances of not being scammed.
#37
colinsunderland
boothy
maybe something could be added to the rules cautioning people to the risks of contract phone trading?

obviously only about 1% of people actually read them but it couldn't do any harm...


Good idea. If its in the guidelines/rules then people can't complain when they get scammed. .



They will still complain,but its just another layer of protection and if it stops one person being ripped then its worked.
#38
Was just making a thread about this myself as I missed this one, I think its a shame as I used it myself a couple of times to avoid scambay fees, now does this mean the fs/ft over here is going to be full of phone threads ? I think so, which would also encourage scammers to come over here.
#39
boothy



They will still complain,but its just another layer of protection and if it stops one person being ripped then its worked.


What a ridiculous statement.
It's like saying "Let's ban all women from driving, if it stops one child from being killed it's worth it". No it's not.

Edited By: thesaint on Oct 17, 2010 16:29: -
#40
bargaincrazy09
Was just making a thread about this myself as I missed this one, I think its a shame as I used it myself a couple of times to avoid scambay fees, now does this mean the fs/ft over here is going to be full of phone threads ? I think so, which would also encourage scammers to come over here.


Either that or HUKD will be forced to follow suit, and then we are only left with ebay for those wishing to play mobile roulette.

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