BBC News: Brexit: Legal battle over UK's single market membership - HotUKDeals
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BBC News: Brexit: Legal battle over UK's single market membership

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I'm surprised none of the Remainers on here have jumped on this yet. Looks like more clutching at straws. Read More
colin4man Avatar
6m, 11h agoPosted 6 months, 11 hours ago
I'm surprised none of the Remainers on here have jumped on this yet.

Looks like more clutching at straws.
colin4man Avatar
6m, 11h agoPosted 6 months, 11 hours ago
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(5)
11 Likes
It's not a legal battle over that though is it? It was never about stopping Brexit. It was about making sure the whole country gets the best deal for the majority using our democratic process. A clear debate and discussion in parliament before triggering article 50.

Not a few Tories in a room working out exactly their vision of a Brexit and ignoring parliment and triggering it when they say so. As I'm really sure that will work well for the majority of the country.

I am sure Brexit will happen, just not how people really wanted it too. No hard Brexit and a complete waste of time type Brexit. However it will happen none the less on paper so they can say you got what you voted for. There was no mandate so people can't complain, if they get a soft Brexit they're still getting what the actual referendum vote was for.

Anyhow politicians lie, both sides were full of rubbish. This case is about making sure it's done properly and legally in the best interests for everyone.

One day when the Govt try to push something through you really don't agree with; without following democratic process you may appreciate why we have the system we do.

It will be a Pyrrhic victory for both sides. There will be a pointless Brexit so it will have all been for nothing. Equally the EU is having political instability and swings not seen since the 1930's. What happened the last time it happened?

I don't see the issue really. Some people have decided that the Govt aren't following democratic process and took them to court. Let the courts clarify and highlight who's on the 'right' side of the law as such.
6 Likes
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
6 Likes
"A government spokesman said: "As the UK is party to the EEA Agreement only in its capacity as an EU Member State, once we leave the European Union we will automatically cease to be a member of the EEA."
Conservative MP and Brexiteer Dominic Raab said: "Rather than coming up with new legal wheezes to try and frustrate the will of the people, these lawyers should be working with us to make a success of Brexit.
"The public have spoken; we should respect the result and get on with it, not try to find new hurdles that undermine the democratic process."".

I have never seen so many tears, What utter vile undemocratic pigs.

You can't ignore the will of the people, law or no law they should have thought about that before they offered us a Brexit = Brexit vote. Remember they voted 6/1 in favour.

Now the lengths the remoaners are going to try and halt Brexit is ridiculous, Why can't you just respect the will of the people?.

You expect them to honour the will of the people, It is as simple as that.

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
5 Likes
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.

Yeah, right.
5 Likes
RonChew
3guesses
RonChew
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
3guesses
5 months on from the referendum and STILL so much resistance from the Remainers. Such a waste of time and effort, and so counterproductive.
Talking of which, the Sarah Olney interview with Julia Hartley-Brewer on Talk Radio is hilarious: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/02/lib-dems-new-mp-sarah-olney-dragged-off-air-brexit-grilling/
You can hear a clip of it on today's Sunday Politics (on iPlayer - ~1hr 12min in). There's also an interview (near the start) with Nick Clegg in which he just makes himself look unblievably petty. That's one of the big problems with this country: too many adults who need to grow up.
It is funny just how inept the government has been throughout though. Five months, still nothing and Brexit appearing more watered down each day. Must be very frustrating just how impotent you feel.
It is also funny how often these Brexiters need to post to try to reassure themselves that Brexit isn't disappearing down the plug hole. So, Sarah Olney is an inexperienced politician and Clegg is yesterday's man, but how does that affect Brexit.
The desperation just shines through almost every Brexiter post.
Au contraire, I have been pretty busy lately and only just caught up with this thread. Just so happened that 2 prominent Remainiacs had made complete ****s of themselves on national media on the very same day. Yet you think the pro-leavers are showing their desperation? I fear you have been infected with HEAWD's projectionitis...
The LibDems have always been pro-Remain so all Nick Clegg and Sarah Olney are doing is following the party line although, as anyone would admit, not particularly successfully. But, in terms of the Remain campaign, they are political nobodies. Don't you see that it is a sign of a Brexiters' desperation that you refer to these two as Remainiacs, a pejorative term coined (allegedly) by UKIP? It's a clear sign that someone can see that an argument is slipping away from them when they resort to calling anyone who disagrees with them silly names. ;)
What should really worry Brexiters more is that the Prime Minister was a Remainer. Do you honestly think that she has had a 180 degree change of view just because she has become PM? We may well leave the EU but it is a racing certainty that it won't be on the terms that a lot of Brexiters voted for.

The Liberals went into the Referendum with their choices just the same as everyone else and Lost, Nick Clegg also reminded people before the Referendum took place that this was "a once in a life time decision" until he Lost

And here he is now being outed for what he really is all about.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=AiiDHiZc9Es

"Remainiacs". First used in the Daily Mail by RACHEL JOHNSON a Remainer when talking about her brother Boris

It's just pathetic when you talk about name calling, look at all the words they call the Leave voter's ! Yes your right the argument slipped away from Remainer's long ago.

I'm not the slightest bit worried about Theresa May she was clever in political term's and all she is doing is what the Leader of Remain said we would do if we voted to leave.

David Cameron Leader of the Remain campaign and Prime minister said "A vote to Leave would mean we will leave the EU AND the single market" (which of course also means the end of freedom of movement) "No If's or But's no Second Referendum we will Leave"

Both sides went into the Referendum with those word's and Remain LOST.


Edited By: shasnir on Dec 06, 2016 10:18: Bold

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6 Likes #1
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
#2
that's all it is, clutching at straws.
like Gina wanting to promote her firm, understandable for her, everyone knows her now.
don't know what the brazilian hairdresser was thinking but I bet he regrets it now, he most probably thought he would be the next Vidal if he took the UK government to court on a technicality.
3 Likes #3
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.

The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.

And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
#4
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.

The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.

And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.


well done, keep trying for them straws Ron,
unfortunately your not even close to clutching them.
1 Like #5
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.


There's a fundamental point I think brexiters consistently miss.

They say that for too long they've been ignored, forgotten by an elite.

Yet they think now they won't be ignored and why? Because of a vote.


A vote X). X)

The world changed and people didn't get a vote because it was decided for you. What on earth do people think has changed in the last six months? A cross on a bit of paper??

That's not how things are changed. Tories, Labour, yes, no, Trump, Clinton....it's all the same.

The sooner people stop trying to change the rules of the game and start trying to win at the game, the happier they'll be.
3 Likes #6
shadey12
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
well done, keep trying for them straws Ron,
unfortunately your not even close to clutching them.
I'm not unduly bothered one way or the other about Brexit as it will not affect me or my family greatly. I just feel sorry for the deluded Brexiters who keep their heads buried in the sand so that they can't see how the politicians are shafting them.
3 Likes #7
RonChew
shadey12
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
well done, keep trying for them straws Ron,
unfortunately your not even close to clutching them.
I'm not unduly bothered one way or the other about Brexit as it will not affect me or my family greatly. I just feel sorry for the deluded Brexiters who keep their heads buried in the sand so that they can't see how the politicians are shafting them.


that's one thing we have in common, for me personally I will financially be worse off leaving the the EU, however I try to think of the future of the country as a whole,
there is more to life than personal wealth.
#8
shadey12
RonChew
shadey12
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
well done, keep trying for them straws Ron,
unfortunately your not even close to clutching them.
I'm not unduly bothered one way or the other about Brexit as it will not affect me or my family greatly. I just feel sorry for the deluded Brexiters who keep their heads buried in the sand so that they can't see how the politicians are shafting them.
that's one thing we have in common, for me personally I will financially be worse off leaving the the EU, however I try to think of the future of the country as a whole,
there is more to life than personal wealth.

Why would you be worse off?
1 Like #9
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shadey12
RonChew
shadey12
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
well done, keep trying for them straws Ron,
unfortunately your not even close to clutching them.
I'm not unduly bothered one way or the other about Brexit as it will not affect me or my family greatly. I just feel sorry for the deluded Brexiters who keep their heads buried in the sand so that they can't see how the politicians are shafting them.
that's one thing we have in common, for me personally I will financially be worse off leaving the the EU, however I try to think of the future of the country as a whole,
there is more to life than personal wealth.

Why would you be worse off?


lots of reasons, none of which I am going to share with you.
#10
shadey12
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shadey12
RonChew
shadey12
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
well done, keep trying for them straws Ron,
unfortunately your not even close to clutching them.
I'm not unduly bothered one way or the other about Brexit as it will not affect me or my family greatly. I just feel sorry for the deluded Brexiters who keep their heads buried in the sand so that they can't see how the politicians are shafting them.
that's one thing we have in common, for me personally I will financially be worse off leaving the the EU, however I try to think of the future of the country as a whole,
there is more to life than personal wealth.
Why would you be worse off?
lots of reasons, none of which I am going to share with you.

Why?

My point is that yo talk about people being self-centred and caring only about their bubbles but you simply fail to see the link between the individual and society.

Say for instance that one of the reasons you'd worse off was because your company was going to see income fall. Now that's bad for you but it's also bad for the exchequer because you could end up contributing less in taxes (both personal and corporate). So you're personal issues now have a knock-on effect for the rest of society - taxes fall which mean public spending needs to decrease (because we can't raise taxes when we need to keep companies flowing into the country).

Schools, the NHS etc. all start having their budgets cut.

Or maybe you take another route and cut your spending. Maybe you lay someone off. Now he's not only struggling, but he's also not paying as much in tax (income and VAT because he cuts spending too) and he might even need JSA or some other benefit.

Now not only is that person not contributing as much, they're also depending on the government to give them more too.

You have this binary way of thinking where someone either agrees with you or they're self-centred and focussed only on themselves. What you completely ignore is that link between the individual and society and how they need to work in tandem.
6 Likes #11
"A government spokesman said: "As the UK is party to the EEA Agreement only in its capacity as an EU Member State, once we leave the European Union we will automatically cease to be a member of the EEA."
Conservative MP and Brexiteer Dominic Raab said: "Rather than coming up with new legal wheezes to try and frustrate the will of the people, these lawyers should be working with us to make a success of Brexit.
"The public have spoken; we should respect the result and get on with it, not try to find new hurdles that undermine the democratic process."".

I have never seen so many tears, What utter vile undemocratic pigs.

You can't ignore the will of the people, law or no law they should have thought about that before they offered us a Brexit = Brexit vote. Remember they voted 6/1 in favour.

Now the lengths the remoaners are going to try and halt Brexit is ridiculous, Why can't you just respect the will of the people?.

You expect them to honour the will of the people, It is as simple as that.

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
#12
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.

No you won't. You simply aren't the type.

Those who hold the power in this country will dictate the terms on which we go through all of this, not some mob on a day trip down to the capital with some poorly-written placards.

If you had the power to change things then you would've already done it. The most you could do was put a cross on a ballot paper and that's not how you effect real change in a country.

We're going to do what we have done for the past five decades - get the best deal for this country.
1 Like #13
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
No you won't. You simply aren't the type.
Those who hold the power in this country will dictate the terms on which we go through all of this, not some mob on a day trip down to the capital with some poorly-written placards.
If you had the power to change things then you would've already done it. The most you could do was put a cross on a ballot paper and that's not how you effect real change in a country.
We're going to do what we have done for the past five decades - get the best deal for this country.

The best deal is to Brexit according to 17m voters.

If war did break out, which it could then which City do you think would be targeted first?.

I think what you should do is embrace the change coming with Brexit, The alternative doesn't bare thinking about really.
5 Likes #14
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.

Yeah, right.
#15
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.

So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
2 Likes #16
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.

No.

But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.

You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
#17
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?

Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.

It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.
1 Like #18
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.

So it's gone from riots and war to political unrest and a protest march already??

You've proven our point - you're simply not the type to make change happen. If you coulda, you woulda.
1 Like #19
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.

I bet there would be less than the number of people who protested against the War in Iraq in 2003.
That was 1M. I doubt it would even hit in the tens of thousands.
#20
shauneco

Because I care for democracy

Clearly not.
Please explain your view on the concept of Parliamentary Democracy.

As said before - you asked for British law upheld by British Judges in British Courts. The High Court ruling was exactly that. Surely you want your elected representative to have some involvement in the Brexit negotiations/process. Surely?
1 Like #21
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.
So it's gone from riots and war to political unrest and a protest march already??
You've proven our point - you're simply not the type to make change happen. If you coulda, you woulda.

There is nothing to protest about atm, Brexit as far as we're concerned is happening, You should embrace it as we all should.

Come on you weren't that deluded to think I could have been serious?.

Realistically if Brexit didn't happen then there would be protests/riots ( I wouldn't riot, only protest ). You would then risk chaos with right wing parties getting elected etc.. Even I would be reluctant to vote for parties like UKIP for example, I'm just not sure what their policies are outside of the EU. I think other parties could form and it would bring political unrest. Already we're seeing great divides between Brexiters and remoaners. Whatever happens it might not be pretty.
1 Like #22
dtovey89
shauneco

Because I care for democracy
Clearly not.
Please explain your view on the concept of Parliamentary Democracy.

As said before - you asked for British law upheld by British Judges in British Courts. The High Court ruling was exactly that. Surely you want your elected representative to have some involvement in the Brexit negotiations/process. Surely?

Honestly, If they had suggested that before the vote it would be acceptable and I think even more people would actually have voted leave. But it wasn't presented like that, the referendum had already been run through parliament and they voted 6/1 in favour of Brexit means Brexit.
1 Like #23
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
The sooner people stop trying to change the rules of the game and start trying to win at the game, the happier they'll be.
Sad, but in this selfish machivellian society, probably true. :(
2 Likes #24
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.
So it's gone from riots and war to political unrest and a protest march already??
You've proven our point - you're simply not the type to make change happen. If you coulda, you woulda.
There is nothing to protest about atm, Brexit as far as we're concerned is happening, You should embrace it as we all should.
Come on you weren't that deluded to think I could have been serious?.
Realistically if Brexit didn't happen then there would be protests/riots ( I wouldn't riot, only protest ). You would then risk chaos with right wing parties getting elected etc.. Even I would be reluctant to vote for parties like UKIP for example, I'm just not sure what their policies are outside of the EU. I think other parties could form and it would bring political unrest. Already we're seeing great divides between Brexiters and remoaners. Whatever happens it might not be pretty.

There is a divide I absolutely agree, but you need to look at who is on either side of the divide.

Find a Brexit map of Britain and look at the areas that voted remain, or where it was close. They're the cities, the metropolitan areas, the areas of the country that have business and wealth.

They're the areas of the country that hold the most power.

Look at London - Hammersmith and Fuham, Kensington and Chelsea, Lewisham, Lambeth, Wandsworth and Westminster all around 70-30.

Then look around the country - Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Oxford all voted to remain.

You have to recognise that power isn't held by the majority - it's held by the powerful.
1 Like #25
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.
Millions took part in march against war with Iraq - didn't make slightest bit of difference - politicians completely ignored it and went ahead with their own plans.

Like it or lump it, Shaun, the establishment doesn't really give a crap what joepublic thinks - Heawd is right in saying they've got all the power and we've got nowt. :(

Edited By: tryn2help on Dec 08, 2016 16:43: i
#26
Bit of news.

UKIP. Paul Nuttall has been elected as the party's new leader

"Paul Nuttall says Ukip will 'replace Labour' after succeeding Nigel Farage as party's new leader"

His victory came as a new analysis by the House of Commons revealed the party could kill Labour in 13 seats if just one in 50 voters switch allegiance to Ukip.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/28/paul-nuttall-elected-new-ukip-leader-nigel-farage-finally-bows/
#27
shasnir

"Paul Nuttall says Ukip will 'replace Labour' after succeeding Nigel Farage as party's new leader"

UKIP are redundant
2 Likes #28
dtovey89
shasnir

"Paul Nuttall says Ukip will 'replace Labour' after succeeding Nigel Farage as party's new leader"
UKIP are redundant

Yer I bet the same people who believe that also thought Remain would win the Referendum.
2 Likes #29
dtovey89
shasnir

"Paul Nuttall says Ukip will 'replace Labour' after succeeding Nigel Farage as party's new leader"
UKIP are redundant

I think they could pivot and still be relevant as a party for the disenfranchised voters looking to air their grievances against the establishment, political correctness, etc. A bit like the Tea Party in America.

Nuttall is a bloke who moans about PC, wants the death penalty back, thinks we should vote on abortion and objects to the EU - he's basically a tabloid in human form so he'll attract a certain type of voter who seems to be spreading like a weed.

After decades of progressive politics, we're seeing a reaction and it's voice seems to be growing.
#30
shasnir
dtovey89
shasnir

"Paul Nuttall says Ukip will 'replace Labour' after succeeding Nigel Farage as party's new leader"
UKIP are redundant
Yer I bet the same people who believe that also thought Remain would win the Referendum.

Apparently Brexit means Brexit so UKIP have served their purpose.

They've also managed to secure a whole single seat in Parliament.
UKIP will never replace Labour. Look at the UKIP results:

Nuttall won 62.6% of support among party members - 9,622 votes.
UKIP are a Party where under 10,000 Membership votes wins you over 60%. Compare that to Labour's recent leadership election results and you'll see what I mean by UKIP being redundant. Labour have the highest Membership out of any party in Europe. UKIP have less members than the capacity of Football League 2 stadiums.

Edited By: dtovey89 on Nov 28, 2016 13:26
#31
shasnir
Bit of news.
UKIP. Paul Nuttall has been elected as the party's new leader
"Paul Nuttall says Ukip will 'replace Labour' after succeeding Nigel Farage as party's new leader"
His victory came as a new analysis by the House of Commons revealed the party could kill Labour in 13 seats if just one in 50 voters switch allegiance to Ukip.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/28/paul-nuttall-elected-new-ukip-leader-nigel-farage-finally-bows/
Try to see the bigger picture.

This push to oust Labour is coming more from Conservative supporting newspaper owners than anywhere else.

The great wet dream of every tory is to utterly wipe the Labour party off the face of the Earth.

If it's possible to replace them with a bunch of easily controlled pseudo-conservatives then that's a bonus.
#32
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.
So it's gone from riots and war to political unrest and a protest march already??
You've proven our point - you're simply not the type to make change happen. If you coulda, you woulda.
There is nothing to protest about atm, Brexit as far as we're concerned is happening, You should embrace it as we all should.
Come on you weren't that deluded to think I could have been serious?.
Realistically if Brexit didn't happen then there would be protests/riots ( I wouldn't riot, only protest ). You would then risk chaos with right wing parties getting elected etc.. Even I would be reluctant to vote for parties like UKIP for example, I'm just not sure what their policies are outside of the EU. I think other parties could form and it would bring political unrest. Already we're seeing great divides between Brexiters and remoaners. Whatever happens it might not be pretty.
There is a divide I absolutely agree, but you need to look at who is on either side of the divide.
Find a Brexit map of Britain and look at the areas that voted remain, or where it was close. They're the cities, the metropolitan areas, the areas of the country that have business and wealth.
They're the areas of the country that hold the most power.
Look at London - Hammersmith and Fuham, Kensington and Chelsea, Lewisham, Lambeth, Wandsworth and Westminster all around 70-30.
Then look around the country - Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Oxford all voted to remain.
You have to recognise that power isn't held by the majority - it's held by the powerful.

Which is one of the many problems regardless of the EU, The power should be shared equally.
1 Like #33
tryn2help
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.
Millions took part in march against war with Iraq - didn't make slightest bit of difference - politicians completely ignored it and went ahead with their own plans.

Like it or lump it, Shaun, the establishment doesn't really give a crap what joepublic thinks - Hehaw is right in saying they've got all the power and we've got nowt. :(

It would be reflected in general elections in years to come, Right now there isn't an electable party imo. You're damned whoever you vote for unless you vote for the alternatives.
#34
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco
dtovey89
shauneco

Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.
Yeah, right.
So do you think 17m+ voters will just accept it?.
No.
But I don't think you'll personally march to London. Even if you did what would you do?
The vast majority of London voted in so if there was a mass riot/protest in the Capital then the locals would no doubt counter your march.
You talk a big game but you've never bothered to move to establish a career so why would you bother making the effort to march down now?
Because I care for democracy, ok it wouldn't be civil war but it would cause a lot of problems. You simply cannot ignore 17m+ voters. I would 100% join a protest march and obviously I wouldn't be the only one, It would probably be the biggest protest in history.
It would most certainly cause political unrest for decades, majority of people don't trust their MP's as it is, go against the will of the people and it isn't going to end well.
So it's gone from riots and war to political unrest and a protest march already??
You've proven our point - you're simply not the type to make change happen. If you coulda, you woulda.
There is nothing to protest about atm, Brexit as far as we're concerned is happening, You should embrace it as we all should.
Come on you weren't that deluded to think I could have been serious?.
Realistically if Brexit didn't happen then there would be protests/riots ( I wouldn't riot, only protest ). You would then risk chaos with right wing parties getting elected etc.. Even I would be reluctant to vote for parties like UKIP for example, I'm just not sure what their policies are outside of the EU. I think other parties could form and it would bring political unrest. Already we're seeing great divides between Brexiters and remoaners. Whatever happens it might not be pretty.
There is a divide I absolutely agree, but you need to look at who is on either side of the divide.
Find a Brexit map of Britain and look at the areas that voted remain, or where it was close. They're the cities, the metropolitan areas, the areas of the country that have business and wealth.
They're the areas of the country that hold the most power.
Look at London - Hammersmith and Fuham, Kensington and Chelsea, Lewisham, Lambeth, Wandsworth and Westminster all around 70-30.
Then look around the country - Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Oxford all voted to remain.
You have to recognise that power isn't held by the majority - it's held by the powerful.
Which is one of the many problems regardless of the EU, The power should be shared equally.

No it shouldn't. There's a reason why certain places control more wealth and power. You don't just change that.

It's the same with things like job opportunities that we spoke about last. There is no burden on those who control these things to apportion them evenly. That's just not how economies work.
#35
dtovey89
shasnir
dtovey89
shasnir

"Paul Nuttall says Ukip will 'replace Labour' after succeeding Nigel Farage as party's new leader"
UKIP are redundant
Yer I bet the same people who believe that also thought Remain would win the Referendum.

Apparently Brexit means Brexit so UKIP have served their purpose.

They've also managed to secure a whole single seat in Parliament.
UKIP will never replace Labour. Look at the UKIP results:

Nuttall won 62.6% of support among party members - 9,622 votes.
UKIP are a Party where under 10,000 Membership votes wins you over 60%. Compare that to Labour's recent leadership election results and you'll see what I mean by UKIP being redundant. Labour have the highest Membership out of any party in Europe. UKIP have less members than the capacity of Football League 2 stadiums.


look at the amount of labour members voting for Corbyn, if he is still leader at the next election you will see membership and votes mean nothing.
#36
shauneco
It would be reflected in general elections in years to come, Right now there isn't an electable party imo. You're damned whoever you vote for unless you vote for the alternatives.
As I said; 'it's a wet dream' - emphasis on dream.

Tories need a Labour party - it's very existence is one of the main reasons to vote Conservative, take that away and there's a very real danger peeps might vote for the psuedo-conservatives - something much more dangerous to the Conservative Party than Labour ever could be.

In this country, Shaun, things have been run a certain way by a certain type for a very long time.
There have been some temporary inconveniences along the way, but things have never been out of the control of that certain type.

And, you're not damned, you're certainly stuck between a rock and a hard place, but you're not damned.
Neither do you have to vote for the alternatives - that's often a bit like voting for a kick in the nuts instead of a punch in the face.
#37
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
Haven't read all the thread yet but jut to pick up on the basics of your comment
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU
Who gives the politicians their job (in basic language who elects them)?
And how many of these politicians (remoaners) are following what their electorate voted for?
Now I may be wrong here but there seems to be a disproportionate number of politicians whose electorate voted for Brexit yet they (the politicians) are supporting Remain
2 Likes #38
shauneco
"A government spokesman said: "As the UK is party to the EEA Agreement only in its capacity as an EU Member State, once we leave the European Union we will automatically cease to be a member of the EEA."
Conservative MP and Brexiteer Dominic Raab said: "Rather than coming up with new legal wheezes to try and frustrate the will of the people, these lawyers should be working with us to make a success of Brexit.
"The public have spoken; we should respect the result and get on with it, not try to find new hurdles that undermine the democratic process."".
I have never seen so many tears, What utter vile undemocratic pigs.
You can't ignore the will of the people, law or no law they should have thought about that before they offered us a Brexit = Brexit vote. Remember they voted 6/1 in favour.
Now the lengths the remoaners are going to try and halt Brexit is ridiculous, Why can't you just respect the will of the people?.
You expect them to honour the will of the people, It is as simple as that.
Civil war will happen otherwise, like I have said before I'll march down there myself if I have too and I certainly wouldn't be the only one.!.

Just ignore it all it's just more pretentious nonsense they haven't got a hope with this one, you have to remember that the majority ( Leave voters) have been told by the Prime Minister we will be invoking Article 50 in March and that to most people is good enough as the vote was to leave the EU and the single market and that is what will happen, anything else is just nonsense mainly by very rich backers on the losing Remainers side trying to tie the actual end result into the same thing (activating article 50) which won't happen, the vote was to leave the EU which will be activated in March, the conditions of leaving the EU will be thrashed out over the next to years.

Theresa May appealing is a shot to nothing as Article 50 will be in invoked no matter what the Supreme court outcome.



Edited By: shasnir on Dec 04, 2016 22:12: Non
#39
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals
RonChew
colin4man
My experience of dealing with lawyers (admittedly commercial laywers not constitutional ones) are that they are very good at coming up with an argument which benefits those who they are working for. :)
Lawyers write law hence they write it in such a way as to ensure that there can be more than one interpretation of the statute. This ensures that there will always be work for lawyers in arguing over what the statute means and rewriting it when it proves to mean something the government didn't want it to. In much the same way, no lawyer is going to write a watertight contract as, if they did, they would eventually put hundreds of thousands of lawyers out of work.
The problem with brexiters is that they don't seem to want to accept that the overwhelming majority of politicians don't want to leave the EU. Aside from the (very) few far right wingers and the carpetbaggers like Johnson and Gove in the Tory party and a few nonetities in Labour, there is little support for Brexit in Parliament.
And, unless you are incredibly naive, you can't really believe that a Prime Minister who was a Remainer genuinely means it when she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. She's just praying for a way to water Brexit down so far that, even if it did happen, the only change would be that we no longer elected MEPs.
There's a fundamental point I think brexiters consistently miss.
They say that for too long they've been ignored, forgotten by an elite.
Yet they think now they won't be ignored and why? Because of a vote.
A vote X). X)
The world changed and people didn't get a vote because it was decided for you. What on earth do people think has changed in the last six months? A cross on a bit of paper??
That's not how things are changed. Tories, Labour, yes, no, Trump, Clinton....it's all the same.
The sooner people stop trying to change the rules of the game and start trying to win at the game, the happier they'll be.

The game.. OF THRONES

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