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Building Regulations, Part P, Electrical Circuits.............

guv Avatar
banned7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
.

Have been planning on converting our integral garage into living space and expanding the kitchen by the removal of an internal block wall. (Its believed the footings are fine for building the wall in place of the garage door - and all external walls are double skinned.)

Basically, the job entails removal of garage door and bricking up the front only, plus a 4' square window. (Its single story at this point.) Internally, the garage floor needs to be raised, part of the internal garage wall needs a door opening added from the hallway and also into the downstairs loo. There is a corridor from the front door, which dissapears, making the kitchen wider by 1.2m for the length of the kitchen and also movement of the current living room entrance by about 1 metre.

I also need the garage rewired, ceilings replaced and walls plastered.

Had 3 builders round for quotes - and the first one has just come in!

WTF....... he's quoted £11,500 to do that. (this doesnt include any decoration - but does include plastering.).... + an additional £3.2K to fit a new combi boiler!

Whislt there are a few things I know I'd be too scared to tackle, I'm now thinking of doing the bulk of it myself! The price quoted for a boiler highlights to me, that price is way OTT - and knowing the actual work needed, I know full well, the garage / kitchen prices are similarly stupidly high......... So now the questions........


Since the garage is currently used as a utility room / computer room, I've already run a ring main inside. This was done ages ago, but would need to be ripped out and repositioned. I use a hell of a lot of sockets! I'm thinking this is a job I can easily do myself..... and part of the Part P of the building regs, the electrical testing is part of the building reg fee. Is this the case?

Bricking up the front, including a 4' sq double glazed window and damp course in place of the garage door.... what would you expect that to cost? (This is something I won't be tackleing.)

Making the opening to the garage from hallway. This is single brick and not a load bearing wall. Not sure if it would be better to angle grind the opening, or chisle and breakout. Best / easiest way?

The kitchen wall..... I'm confident thats not load bearing either.... however, I'm not 100% sure. (If it is load bearing, it will only be for support to upstairs floor beams.... there are no walls involved.) Whats the best way of checking - and what should I be looking for? If an RSJ isnt needed, I'll happily DIY.... but not if an RSJ is needed.

Finally.. what would you expect to pay for a new boiler? Its not going to be fitted in the exact same place, but its not being moved far and access for pipes isnt a problem. (Its going to be put in the dowstairs loo!)

Lots of questions... and probably lots of ridicule for needing to ask.... but hey ho........


Ta

Pictures added here:

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/445296/building-regulations-part-p-electri/showpost.php?p=5815228&postcount=37
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guv Avatar
banned7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
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banned#1
how many rads running off the combi boiler ?
banned#2
dog_cop
how many rads running off the combi boiler ?


Hmmmm....... 3 bedrooms - one in each, 2 towel rads in bathroom, and 3 rads downstairs.

To be honest, the house is always exceptionally warm. If I had my way, I'd only ever use the downstairs fire and never put the central heating on!

The rad that was in the long hallway, is being moved to the "garage room"! - so no additional rads used...... though the guy was suggesting something about under unit kitchen heating... though wasnt mentioned in his quote.

Pictures added here: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/445296/building-regulations-part-p-electri/showpost.php?p=5815228&postcount=37
#3
We had a brand new condensing boiler put in (same place) for £1000 then a year later 3 old rads removed and replaced for £350.......our plumber is brill :)
banned#4
I had a combi and 4 rads and a towel rail in and no way did I pay anywhere near 3.5 .. if like me you give a go at some DIY, I hung all the rads around the house before the plumber arrive and bought the combi myself.. google was my mate and the local Plumb centre saved me a poo load of cash
banned#5
bitseylango
We had a brand new condensing boiler put in (same place) for £1000.......our plumber is brill :)


Cheers.

Yeh, the price being quoted of £3200 to just fit a new boiler is what convinces me the rest of his quote was based on "think of a number", "double it".

My neice just had a new combi, repositioned, 2 new rads and a fair bit of ******ation factor and the bill was £2K.
banned 1 Like #6
guv;5814383
Cheers.

Yeh, the price being quoted of £3200 to just fit a new boiler is what convinces me the rest of his quote was based on "think of a number", "double it".

My neice just had a new combi, repositioned, 2 new rads and a fair bit of ******ation factor and the bill was £2K.

I think the plumber is a Robber :thumbsup:
#7
Does the boiler quote include the boiler or just labour? if its labour only he is takeing the pi$$ even with a boiler hes about £1500 to dear at least.

As for your building a good builder will work labour only for £150.00 per day maybe £100.00 in this economic climate.

Load bearing walls tricky without seeing to say for sure, try and see if possible which way the joist run this will sometimes give you a idea whats happening.

hope this helps a little.
banned#8
dog_cop
I had a combi and 4 rads and a towel rail in and no way did I pay anywhere near 3.5 .. if like me you give a go at some DIY, I hung all the rads around the house before the plumber arrive and bought the combi myself.. google was my mate and the local Plumb centre saved me a poo load of cash


Yeh the rads are the issue. They are all staying in the same place, expect the one currently in the hallway (which will soon be part of the kitchen) and can easily be moved to the oposite side of the wall its currently fixed, by a quick drill through. That wouldnt take me more than an hour or so to do. (Not including draining time.) That said.... on memory, he did say when fitting new boilers, you did need new thermostatic valves. Havent a clue what I have currently. Me and plumbing dont go together!

Its the general building side and electrics, I'm happy to have a dabble with.
banned#9
guv;5814441
Yeh the rads are the issue. They are all staying in the same place, expect the one currently in the hallway (which will soon be part of the kitchen) and can easily be moved to the oposite side of the wall its currently fixed, by a quick drill through. That wouldnt take me more than an hour or so to do. (Not including draining time.) That said.... on memory, he did say when fitting new boilers, you did need new thermostatic valves. Havent a clue what I have currently. Me and plumbing dont go together!

Its the general building side and electrics, I'm happy to have a dabble with.

TRV`s they are easy peasy to fit , and you could always get a freeze kit to save draining your rads ..
#10
Bricking up the front, including a 4' sq double glazed window and damp course in place of the garage door.... what would you expect that to cost?

I would say Labour only £150.00, £200.00 with materials give or take 10%
banned#11
dog_cop
I think the plumber is a Robber :thumbsup:


Yeh, I think I know! :p

artryt
Does the boiler quote include the boiler or just labour? if its labour only he is takeing the pi$$ even with a boiler hes about £1500 to dear at least.

As for your building a good builder will work labour only for £150.00 per day maybe £100.00 in this economic climate.

Load bearing walls tricky without seeing to say for sure, try and see if possible which way the joist run this will sometimes give you a idea whats happening.

hope this helps a little.


The quote included the boiler.... but no rads.

The joists DO run over the wall thats being removed. So it is possible they are baring the load. That said, it runs parallel with the exisitng garage brick wall - so that is still there to take the weight. That said, where the garage ends and hallway begins at the bottom of the stairs, it will run from one side to the other, with only the wall I want to remove!!! I guess that is the point I am wary of!
banned#12
dog_cop
TRV`s they are easy peasy to fit , and you could always get a freeze kit to save draining your rads ..


If you knew what I was like with plumbing, you wouldn't make that suggestion! I am seriously bad. Remember - it has to be drained down anyway - with a new boiler being fitted!

artryt
Bricking up the front, including a 4' sq double glazed window and damp course in place of the garage door.... what would you expect that to cost?

I would say Labour only £150.00, £200.00 with materials give or take 10%


The opening, will just be a normal garage size door opening. I'm guessing, I should also use a lintel from strength (even though there is nothing but the flat roof above)

So would a grand sound realistic with all materials for that part of the task? (Ive not looked at all at cost of bricks, window etc) Or is that still OTT (or should be cheaper?)
banned#13
guv;5814570
If you knew what I was like with plumbing, you wouldn't make that suggestion! I am seriously bad. Remember - it has to be drained down anyway - with a new boiler being fitted!



The opening, will just be a normal size door opening. I'm guessing, I should also use a lintel from strength (even though there is nothing but the flat roof above)

So would a grand sound realistic with all materials for that part of the task? (Ive not looked at all at cost of bricks, window etc) Or is that still OTT (or should be cheaper?)

well get your self some adjustable spanners, some trv`s and some ptf tape and your sorted .. :thumbsup:
#14
Sorry didnt read the garage front bit right think it will be slightly more :oops:
4foot window rough cost 250.00 brickwork 2 days £300 materials £200 fit window £100
Total £1000 tops mate sorry i misunderstood.
#15
£3,200!!! FFS.
Top boiler=£1,200-£1,400.
Repossition boiler & alterations=£1,800-£2,000.:?
Does the plumber go to work in an aston martin?
You could get a full heating system installed from scratch for that dough.
And probably get Jordan to turn it on for you.
#16
A lintel will be a good idea if the window ever needs changeing.
Has the garage got a cavity?
banned#17
artryt
Sorry didnt read the garage front bit right think it will be slightly more :oops:
4foot window rough cost 250.00 brickwork 2 days £300 materials £200 fit window £100
Total £1000 tops mate sorry i misunderstood.


Cool. So my guess wasn't too shoddy!

Obviously as you say, its a double skinned wall and needs damp course sorting.


From what I've said in the OP though, does it sound feasible for a DIY job? I'm not a complete plant (plumbing aside) and to be fair, the only thing else that worries, is the load bearing risk.

Also... what about the Part P and installing a ring main? Can a non qualified elctrician do this - providing its checked out? (I bedgrudge paying an electrician a fortune to do this as I know its going to be a relatively simple job.)
1 Like #18
Since the garage is currently used as a utility room / computer room, I've already run a ring main inside. This was done ages ago, but would need to be ripped out and repositioned. I use a hell of a lot of sockets! I'm thinking this is a job I can easily do myself..... and part of the Part P of the building regs, the electrical testing is part of the building reg fee. Is this the case?



Answer - No - To comply with building regs an electrical instalation certificate would be required for the electrical work to the garage, this can only be done by a member of a competent person scheme such as ECA, NIC, NAPIT etc, building regs will not pass it otherwise, as an option you can do the work yourself and get it tested by the local authority but they usually charge about £200 for this service which would have gone off getting it done by a competent person.
#19
[QUOTE=guv]If you knew what I was like with plumbing, you wouldn't make that suggestion! I am seriously bad. Remember - it has to be drained down anyway - with a new boiler being fitted!


If you can drain the system down you can fit trvs, if you get it wrong it wont take long to find out.
1 Like #20
Look at your floorboards. If the wall you plan to demolish runs parallel then it's probably load bearing. Boiler about £1500, probably a bit more because of the rad. As for the actual building, plenty of Poles where you are I would have thought? Bet your quote was from an English builder :lol:
banned#21
hibees
£3,200!!! FFS.
Top boiler=£1,200-£1,400.
Repossition boiler & alterations=£1,800-£2,000.:?
Does the plumber go to work in an aston martin?
You could get a full heating system installed from scratch for that dough.
And probably get Jordan to turn it on for you.


Haha...... I'd rather get someone else than that slapper! :w00t:

artryt
A lintel will be a good idea if the window ever needs changeing.
Has the garage got a cavity?


Yes. One complete side is an external wall, which is double brick skinned and is insulated. The opposite side, is internal. The front is the garage door, which needs bricking and the opposite to this is internal also.

So there's no concerns regarding this part of the building work - and I'm faily confident that the footings will be fine all round (since one one side - is already internal and has the downstairs loo. Would be a bit weird, if this and the other bricked external was sound - but the missed the bit in the middle which should have a car running over!!!!)

Obviously the ceiling to the garage would need pulling down and new insulation fitted. (Well perhaps not obviously - but I will do this since I want to be sure myself - and it could do with being replacing anyway! Not too big a job!)
1 Like #22
If it falls under building regs you will need part p for your inspector to pass it off.

A electrian will check your work and pass it no problem got any elecy mates?

Most of the work is definatley achivable by yourself and by manageing the work yourself you will be better off.
If you organise the materials and work schedule then just look for good tradesman to price labour only.
This way its broken down so you can see whats what.

Go to your local merchants and open a trade account this gives you 60 days credit and the best possible prices, be sure to check the prices against lets say bq, to make sure your getting a good deal.

Your a project manager/siteforman/architect/tradesman/labour==quids in hopefully
banned#23
octobergirl

Answer - No - To comply with building regs an electrical instalation certificate would be required for the electrical work to the garage, this can only be done by a member of a competent person scheme such as ECA, NIC, NAPIT etc, building regs will not pass it otherwise, as an option you can do the work yourself and get it tested by the local authority but they usually charge about £200 for this service which would have gone off getting it done by a competent person.


Thats the thing.... Part of the building reg fee includes Part P testing! They did say to me "if you are not sure, tick the box, or you will get an additional fee if your builder isnt Part P qualified".

I'm sure I read it that I can do it.... but you probably know how confusing some of the building and planning regs can be!

artryt

If you can drain the system down you can fit trvs, if you get it wrong it wont take long to find out.


Its how I find out that worries me!!! :w00t:

Shengis
Look at your floorboards. If the wall you plan to demolish runs parallel then it's probably load bearing. Boiler about £1500, probably a bit more because of the rad. As for the actual building, plenty of Poles where you are I would have thought? Bet your quote was from an English builder :lol:


The floorboards DO run parallel. And it will only be the floorboards it supports. (ie there is no walls above.)

Funny thing about this though......... The current opening to the kitchen is in a place that the "extra wall" isnt. ie - it leads into the hallway, with only the stairs in front. A mate of mine fitted the arches that are there. I know he didnt worry about load bearing when he did it! Should I be concerned now!!!! :w00t:

Yes, the builder was English. Strangely, he did also say, "people dont want to spend at the moment".... I think I can explain to him why! Not so sure about "Poles". Dont want any language confusion..... and want a house to come back to - or their insurance to claim from!!!!!
#24
Its how I find out that worries me!!! :w00t:


Water pissing out where you need to tighten them up or you forgot ptfe you wouldnt be the first your system wouldnt pressure or should i say it will lose pressure both really ish.
You get the picture.
banned#25
artryt
If it falls under building regs you will need part p for your inspector to pass it off.

A electrian will check your work and pass it no problem got any elecy mates?


The only mate I have that was an electrician - is now a London Black Cabby!!! The only builder mates I have, I wouldn't use them. Not because they are bad - just don't want to risk falling out with them..... And to be fair, none of them are builders - but roofers who'd be happy to have a go. I'd rather not risk that!

However, when I was first thinking about doing this, I run through the details with someone that was recommended by a friend and they did seem OK with the notion of working around what I didnt want to be doing myself. I guess I need to give him another call!

Biggest problem for me is the time factor. I'm not that bothered, part from one crucial thing. The washing machine is currently in the garage.... that will be going into the larger kitchen. Obviously not until things are nearly finished. (I do intend on refitting the complete kitchen - but not just yet!) Therein lies the dilema!

Most of the work is definatley achivable by yourself and by manageing the work yourself you will be better off.
If you organise the materials and work schedule then just look for good tradesman to price labour only.
This way its broken down so you can see whats what.[QUOTE]

Cheers. That is pretty much the way I was leaning towards.

[QUOTE]Go to your local merchants and open a trade account this gives you 60 days credit and the best possible prices, be sure to check the prices against lets say bq, to make sure your getting a good deal.

Your a project manager/siteforman/architect/tradesman/labour==quids in hopefully


Is that easy to open? I know from my firm, I can get a discount with one of my local merchants - but their prices always seem more expensive than places like B&Q!
banned#26
artryt
Its how I find out that worries me!!! :w00t:


Water pissing out where you need to tighten them up or you forgot ptfe you wouldnt be the first your system wouldnt pressure or should i say it will lose pressure both really ish.
You get the picture.


Indeed. I have had my fair share of leaks!

£6Ks worth of damage from an aqualisa shower. Leaking behind a tiled wall. They tell me to buy a new valve. Spend £120.... still leaks. Ended up needing a new bath, shower and decorating downstairs. The cause.... a 5p washer from the outlet hose - that no one even mentioned to check!

Plus of course the obvious nail through the central heating pipe, whilst sorting the creaky floorboards! The stains are still on the garage ceiling! :w00t:


Have a couple of orange rep circles for your time... :thumbsup:
#27
Anyway Guv, waiting for your architects drawing of the proposed work :p
#28
Is that easy to open? I know from my firm, I can get a discount with one of my local merchants - but their prices always seem more expensive than places like B&Q![/QUOTE]

Yes its that easy they want your custom now more than ever, ask to speak to a rep and tell him the score tell him our going to spend alot of cash and would like to spend it with them, on the condition they at least price match BQ they are supplying the trade if they cant beet BQ then they better get looking for new jobs.

Ask friends and family about people they use for building work most tradesman wont turn down £120 a day labour and will put you intouch with more of there friends.
banned#29
Shengis
Anyway Guv, waiting for your architects drawing of the proposed work :p


As it happens.... I'm also the architect! Suppose I could pdf to gif them!

artryt

Yes its that easy they want your custom now more than ever, ask to speak to a rep and tell him the score tell him our going to spend alot of cash and would like to spend it with them, on the condition they at least price match BQ they are supplying the trade if they cant beet BQ then they better get looking for new jobs.

Ask friends and family about people they use for building work most tradesman wont turn down £120 a day labour and will put you intouch with more of there friends.


I've got a B&Q card that gives 10% (or was it 15%?) off anyway!

I'll see what the other 2 quotes come back as. To be honest.... the first one mentioned when I asked when they could do it, said, "its not a big extension" - I was like - WTF!!!!!! The second said "It'll take about a month"........ I'm not holding out too much hope from them!!!!!

I do know a brickie, so could try him. (Dunno what he's like though tbh)

The more I think about this, the more I think I'd be a mug not doing most myself.
#30
guv
As it happens.... I'm also the architect! Suppose I could pdf to gif them!


Well it would make it easier to see exactly what you plan.

Btw, what about planning permission? Do you need it because of change of use? If not then..... Part P, never heard of it mate ;-)
#31
guv
As it happens.... I'm also the architect! Suppose I could pdf to gif them!



I've got a B&Q card that gives 10% (or was it 15%?) off anyway!

I'll see what the other 2 quotes come back as. To be honest.... the first one mentioned when I asked when they could do it, said, "its not a big extension" - I was like - WTF!!!!!! The second said "It'll take about a month"........ I'm not holding out too much hope from them!!!!!

I do know a brickie, so could try him. (Dunno what he's like though tbh)

The more I think about this, the more I think I'd be a mug not doing most myself.


I agree with you one thing leave the plumbing after what you said about the aqualisa.

Tradesman are simple beast feed them and tea them often, and you will get more than you pay for, offer them £100 a day and there breakfast and dinner and unlimited tea, this way they never leave the job and they will love you for it.:thumbsup:
banned#32
Shengis
Well it would make it easier to see exactly what you plan.


Yeh Ok.... will have a go.

Btw, what about planning permission? Do you need it because of change of use? If not then..... Part P, never heard of it mate ;-)


Dont need planning permission. There is no expansion of the existing building. Its just change of use of the garage. And the garage meets planning regs (in that its more than 1m from the next doors fence.)

Part P is to do with electrics. Theyve relaxed the rules now. A short while back, you couldnt even change a plug socket. Thats fine now. But adding a ring main, or kitchen / bathroom work, needs a qualified person to inspect. That could be a builder (if qualified) or the building inspector - and (I think) is covered in my building regs application.
#33
guv
Yeh Ok.... will have a go.



Dont need planning permission. There is no expansion of the existing building. Its just change of use of the garage. And the garage meets planning regs (in that its more than 1m from the next doors fence.)

Part P is to do with electrics. Theyve relaxed the rules now. A short while back, you couldnt even change a plug socket. Thats fine now. But adding a ring main, or kitchen / bathroom work, needs a qualified person to inspect. That could be a builder (if qualified) or the building inspector - and (I think) is covered in my building regs application.


Well, I didn't say this but theres still a good supply of red/black t&e available. That could have been wired any time, but about 8 years ago sounds good wink wink :lol:
banned#34
artryt
I agree with you one thing leave the plumbing after what you said about the aqualisa.


Hehe..... I spoke to a couple of plumbers and also aqualisa! Crikey, if they couldnt suggest it, what chance did I have!

Tradesman are simple beast feed them and tea them often, and you will get more than you pay for, offer them £100 a day and there breakfast and dinner and unlimited tea, this way they never leave the job and they will love you for it.:thumbsup:


I always forget tea! I dont drink it (or coffee!).......... but to be fair, am pretty good when it comes to "looking after" them. Yes, Sarnies and lashings of tea... I can do that!
banned#35
Shengis
Well, I didn't say this but theres still a good supply of red/black t&e available. That could have been wired any time, but about 8 years ago sounds good wink wink :lol:


Did you get affected? I didnt, but my outlaws and dads house did!

He's not there at the mo. I checked tonight and the power is on.... but god nows how long it was off for! Food poisoning anyone?
banned#36
Shengis
Well it would make it easier to see exactly what you plan.


Right.... Here ya go.....

Current
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4309/before.gif

Changes
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5819/after.gif
#37
Looks like your a go go go from this.
Does the kitchen wall not support, whats above the hallway and wc
My only concern is that the joists dont sit on the kitchen wall, if they did a rsj would be called for nothing major its only a single skin wall after all .
banned#38
artryt
Looks like your a go go go from this.
Does the kitchen wall not support, whats above the hallway and wc
My only concern is that the joists dont sit on the kitchen wall, if they did a rsj would be called for nothing major its only a single skin wall after all .


The only thing between the external wall by the stairs and the kitchen wall next to the neighbours, is the wall to be removed. Its the only place that there is no additional support from the garage wall. That said, I also want to extend the kitchen into the hallway and living room by a metre. If it does support, it will need an RSJ. But there is no substatial weight above it. (ie its open flooring from the front bedroom)
#39
you house only has two floors?
banned#40
black gerbil1
I am in awe, because you own your house and I live with my mummy.


Maybe one day Harvie.:thumbsup:

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