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Charity Sky Dives - are they a con?

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Someone I know is doing a charity skydive, however when I questioned how much of the money raised would go to charity they were'nt sure but said the fees for the dive had to come out of it. Is that co… Read More
ghinzani Avatar
7y, 2m agoPosted 7 years, 2 months ago
Someone I know is doing a charity skydive, however when I questioned how much of the money raised would go to charity they were'nt sure but said the fees for the dive had to come out of it. Is that correct? Seems a bit of a con to me, getting people to pay for your fun and then anything over goes to charity. Surely either you pay yourself for the fees, or they offer you a reduced rate. I'm more than happy to donate to charity but not to subsidise someones free jump and keep a parachute centre in business.

Or am I just being a kill joy?
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ghinzani Avatar
7y, 2m agoPosted 7 years, 2 months ago
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#1
From memory when I did this it was like this:

Say actual cost of a skydive is £300
I signed up to x charity and promise to raise £1000, and out of that comes the £300 fee for the skydive.
The charity is up £700, the dive centre has more business and I get an adrenalin fuelled experience cant see an issue with it myself, someone has to pay for aviation fuel/pilot/kit etc.
#2
Ok maybe I am seeing it all wrong then, but I would of thought that the person doing the jump should pay the fees (perhaps reduced for the charity element), and then any money actually donated goes to the charity. Otherwise its mis-leading to ask someone for money for charity when what you are actually saying is "can you sponsor me to do a Skydive and at least x% will go to charity".
banned#3
I guess it depends on if you think scaring yourself to death is fun or not! Have you ever sponsored anyone for running?

I've done it. Raised about £250 for Cancer Research and yes the jump for me was free and the company were paid their fee as usual (and the sponser money covered it.)

So what actually is your beef? Are you against people raising money for charity? You want them to be out of pocket for makiing the effort? Well in some respect I'm with you on that one. It's obscene the amount Wogan earns in the guise of a charity show. Pudsey Bear would be well happy.

ghinzani
Ok maybe I am seeing it all wrong then, but I would of thought that the person doing the jump should pay the fees (perhaps reduced for the charity element), and then any money actually donated goes to the charity. Otherwise its mis-leading to ask someone for money for charity when what you are actually saying is "can you sponsor me to do a Skydive and at least x% will go to charity".


I didnt hide any fact. People thought I was mad for doing it. the question of "Free" didnt come into it, but I made the fact clear.

Oh..... and I paid for all the future jumps myself... (So raising money for charity in my case, really was a good personal experience.)

.
banned#4
No more of a con than the london marathon who charge a lot of entrants £300-£500 to enter!
#5
http://www.intelligentgiving.com/the_buzz/the_blog/overseas_charity_challenges_why_fundraisers_still_don_t_get_it

http://www.morethanthegames.co.uk/athletics/268545-london-marathon-and-great-north-run-under-investigation

2 separate articles of interesting read
i was disgusted with the marathon organisers - charge a charity £5000 so they could have 2 runners in the marathon

the more i discover how a so called charity works and what the bulk of the money goes to - the less i am inclined to donate or help

several years ago - the RNIB were really struggling - and approached Guide dogs for the blind and asked to amalgamate - in short - they said no - a picture of a blind child doesnt raise as much money as a pic of a cute dog!!! - this is from a charity who has £millions in property - off shore accounts - and how many dogs do they train a year ? - not enough!!!!

RNIB have had to close schools - this is a charity who research and invent things to help the blind try to live a normal life
so if you want to donate - this is the one charity where you can actually see (no pun intended there btw) where the money goes
there was a thread on here few weeks back regarding salaries of heads of charities - RNIB was one of the lowest -
#6
I remember being told that the Guide dogs for the blind, have enough money stashed away to provide every single blind person in the country with a guide dog whether they need one or not.
#7
guv




Oh..... and I paid for all the future jumps myself... (So raising money for charity in my case, really was a good personal experience.)

.


Yeah thats the sort of thing I would support.
#8
your spot on the person could do many things that are much cheaper or free and give far more to charity. Its more like will you pay for of to skydive and hopefully have some left for charity
banned#9
I agree with the OP. Pay for the experience yourself or do something cheaper. I know of someone who ran the New York Marathon by using sponsor money to get there and back.
#10
Yeh id say the jumper needs to pay for the experience themself. If not i might do a trek up and down the statue of liberty it would be a free holiday and i can donate £50 to charity.
banned#11
Marty1981
your spot on the person could do many things that are much cheaper or free and give far more to charity. Its more like will you pay for of to skydive and hopefully have some left for charity


master_chief
I agree with the OP. Pay for the experience yourself or do something cheaper. I know of someone who ran the New York Marathon by using sponsor money to get there and back.


I would be less inclined to sponsor someone who was running 2 miles, than I would, knowing they are likely to crap their pants when doing a parachute jump.

However, each to their own. If the thought that someone is "gaining" something puts you off, then don't sponsor them. Spend it on the 2 mile runner instead.

Maybe I'm different. I don't see the point of sponsorship, when the "event" is so trivial, that in reality, its a donation and doesn't matter if they do it or not. If you could raise £1000 for a charity by jumping out of an aircraft, would you consider you'd actually earnt it and done a good dead? I know I sure as hell did.
#12
How is it a con?

Money is raised for Charities

I have done one before and raised about £500
banned#13
I think what the op is saying is that people wnat to do what they do, and are able to do it for free because the charity pays for it, in a way. i mean come on, nobody is going to do anything they really dont want to, just to give a few hundred quid to charity
#14
I used to work in Asset Management and seeing the massive amounts that these charities have invested in the markets made me stop giving to named charities. I prefer to give money to people on the street.

Cancer research being the number 1.
banned#15
It has to be proportional. If you're going to do a £300 skydive and expect the donaters to pay then the return of investment has to be significant to justify it. I reckon a nice 10x would be enough.
banned#16
dcx_badass;8483000
My dad's doing one in August. It's free if you raise over £300.

are you sure the initial £300 raised doesnt go to the organisers?

I'd be more concerned if the sponsorship form didnt actually declare that a percentage is going to a private company's bank account.

If I did a sponsored pub crawl with the beers coming out of the pot, I doubt I'd get anyone to sponsor. I dont see how a sky dive is any different, especially if say only £300 was raised! :w00t:
banned#17
Sponsored events benefit everyone involved. There's no such thing as true altruism. People who do them do so because they want to, 99% of the time they do something that isn't even extraordinary. Everything they do is well within their capability.

For that reason I say pay up your own expenses or get so much sponsorship that the expenses are dwarfed in comparison.
banned#18
whatsThePoint;8483648
People do sponsored pub crawls, but would it been seen as a charity acting responsably

yes and I would hope they normally pay for the beers etc out of their own pocket, not out of the money chucked in the buckets! :w00t:
#19
I agree with OP - if you're going to raise money for a charity, make sure all he money goes to the charity, and not for personal gain.
banned#20
moob;8483824
I agree with OP - if you're going to raise money for a charity, make sure all he money goes to the charity, and not for personal gain.

so conversely, you wouldnt give to charity if this wasn't the case? I agree with you but I bet the people paying £300-£5000 to the london marathon organisers to take part never made this clear to their sponsors.

Its just underhand and needs stamping out. No idea how the chief exec can warrant £250K for organising a once a year event :w00t:

And they are breaking charity law by holding on to £18Million of funds raised (and this goes up each year).
banned#21
csiman
so conversely, you wouldnt give to charity if this wasn't the case? I agree with you but I bet the people paying £300-£5000 to the london marathon organisers to take part never made this clear to their sponsors.

Its just underhand and needs stamping out. No idea how the chief exec can warrant £250K for organising a once a year event :w00t:

And they are breaking charity law by holding on to £18Million of funds raised (and this goes up each year).


You have any further reading on this?
#22
Cancer research has billions invested in the stock market.

No charity gives the money away, they are ran a business.
banned#23
master_chief;8483919
You have any further reading on this?

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od

:thumbsup:
banned#24


Cheers. A two pager would have been better but if I get chance I'll give it a watch, seems interesting.
#25
csiman
so conversely, you wouldnt give to charity if this wasn't the case? I agree with you but I bet the people paying £300-£5000 to the london marathon organisers to take part never made this clear to their sponsors.

Its just underhand and needs stamping out. No idea how the chief exec can warrant £250K for organising a once a year event :w00t:

And they are breaking charity law by holding on to £18Million of funds raised (and this goes up each year).


Correct, I wouldn't give to the charity in this situation at all.
banned#26
moob
I agree with OP - if you're going to raise money for a charity, make sure all he money goes to the charity, and not for personal gain.


To be honest, I think you've lost the plot on how charities work. Do you think all money given goes to the cause it was donated? Or do you appreciate a huge sum goes on the administration to run it? They don't do it for free you know!

moob
Correct, I wouldn't give to the charity in this situation at all.


No one is forcing you. However, the whole thing about sponsorship (IMHO) is that you need to be seeing as doing something for the donation to make it worthwhile. Cacking your pants by doing a bungee or parachute jump is frightening stuff. Try it if you dont believe me. Whereas a walk or run (where there is zero expense) isn't exactly something that makes me reach for my wallet.

Your beef appears to be that the guy being sponsored benefits. I guess in this scenario, it depends on the activitey, but I would challenge why you think someone rasing money should be out of pocket? When I did my jump, I had to be talked into doing it. It wasn't one of those "i want to do" things that I used a charity to get for me, which you seem to be implying.

Anyway, the long on the short, no one forces anyway to sponsor, so it most definately isn't a con.
#27
in b4 a link of some 'big name' charities CEOs annual salary

As Chester said these things are run like businesses
#28
I do understand that charities have overheads and in some cases pay their employees overly handsome pay checks.

My point is that I specifically wouldn't donate under the circumstances described in the OP. Not taking anything away from folk that do things for charity, but I feel if you're raising money for the charity, you should perhaps start by dipping into your own pocket, and financing the event yourself, rather than eating into any donation people are giving with the intention of helping the charity, not funding someones thrill seeking adventure.
banned#29
moob
I do understand that charities have overheads and in some cases pay their employees overly handsome pay checks.


So why do you accept its ok for them to make money out of a charity?

My point is that I specifically wouldn't donate under the circumstances described in the OP. Not taking anything away from folk that do things for charity, but I feel if you're raising money for the charity, you should perhaps start by dipping into your own pocket, and financing the event yourself, rather than eating into any donation people are giving with the intention of helping the charity, not funding someones thrill seeking adventure.


Like I've already said and you've ignored...... I DIDN'T want to do a parachute jump. I was talked into it to raise money. I was not seeking thrills and like Ive said, I'm far more likely to sponsor someone for actually doing something worthwhile (Hey I also gave up 2 full days to do this jump!), than something that is basically a donation for doing booger all.

Anyway... its horses for courses. We all all free to do as we wish. I just think its wrong to accuse it of being a con.

Do you donate to red nose day BTW? Are you happy that people like Terry Wogan make a fortune on the back of it? If you think a "free" parachute jump is a con, god knows what you must think about that!
#30
I did a skydive for charity a couple of years ago, and my understanding is that if you raise over a certain amount, the charity pays for the dive at a reduced fee. For me it was something like raise over £350, and the dive cost is £200. This isn't a massive discount on the actual cost to be honest, and the same thing did bother me with regards to feeling like people were paying for the skydive cost. However, the money I raised with gift aid meant that the charity did receive about £700, which is £500 more than they would have got if I did nothing.
Last year I dived into a shark tank to raise money for SANE, and given what I learnt from previous fundraising events, I paid for the actual dive myself, which was £200. This dive was the very worst experience of my life, but this just made the £560 I raised feel that bit more special. My personal belief is that a sponsored event should be something that is going to be a challenge, and something that perhaps incites a little bit of fear. If it's something that person wanted to do anyway, then the idea of getting people to hand over money for it doesn't sit right with me. Ultimately tho, if all a sponsored event does is act as a marketing tool to encourage people who would not donate otherwise to part with a bit of money, then great. It can be such a positive experience (even if it is horrible like my shark-dive) and I think we all need a little bit of that in our lives!
#31
scrap sponsorship schemes altogether and give the money to charity then
banned#32


Very interesting program. I think they only touched the tip of the iceberg and that their is some serious wrong doing going on behind the scenes of this company, that needs some serious investigation. I was a bit surprised why they didn't get a statement from Virgin the even sponsor.
#33
guv
So why do you accept its ok for them to make money out of a charity?


I never said it was ok...you made that assumption - where in my statement did I say it was ok?

guv
Like I've already said and you've ignored...... I DIDN'T want to do a parachute jump. I was talked into it to raise money. I was not seeking thrills and like Ive said, I'm far more likely to sponsor someone for actually doing something worthwhile (Hey I also gave up 2 full days to do this jump!), than something that is basically a donation for doing booger all.

Anyway... its horses for courses. We all all free to do as we wish. I just think its wrong to accuse it of being a con.

Do you donate to red nose day BTW? Are you happy that people like Terry Wogan make a fortune on the back of it? If you think a "free" parachute jump is a con, god knows what you must think about that!


I also never said it was a 'con', whilst I agree with the overall sentiment of the OP.

We're also not talking about you, or what you've done. You're talking from your own personal experience, I'm discussing the bigger picture.

I used to be a charities convener when I was at college about 20 years ago, we set up events for local charities, and the events cost nothing to organise. Why? Because we dependent on local businesses etc giving their services for free in the name of the charity - plus a little bit of free publicity for them when we got the press involved. The money raised therefore went directly to the charity - local hospitals etc.

I'm not about to discuss to whom and why I donate, lets just say I'm pretty choosy about it.

Carry on with your little tirade if you want, I'm not paying any further attention to it.
banned#34
moob
Carry on with your little tirade if you want, I'm not paying any further attention to it.


Wow.... Just wow!
#35
moob


My point is that I specifically wouldn't donate under the circumstances described in the OP. Not taking anything away from folk that do things for charity, but I feel if you're raising money for the charity, you should perhaps start by dipping into your own pocket, and financing the event yourself, rather than eating into any donation people are giving with the intention of helping the charity, not funding someones thrill seeking adventure.


Perfectly put, thankyou!
#36
Thing is that this is the approach that so many charities use these days to get people to contribute to a cause. A trek up the himilayas, or across china or suchlike. Collect so much and you can get your trip or activity for free. IMO however many of the prices suggested as the cost of the trip/activity seem to be a bit hiked or at least not best value for money.
Dont know who thought up the original concept but seems to be quite endemic with larger charities these days.

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