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Could Marine Le pen increase her 35% stake in France

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Will Le Pen unfortunately pave the way for the right wing to take power in France? EU could subsequently fall apart just as Putin has has wanted. Read More
davewave Avatar
5m, 2w agoPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
Will Le Pen unfortunately pave the way for the right wing to take power in France?
EU could subsequently fall apart just as Putin has has wanted.
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davewave Avatar
5m, 2w agoPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
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(1)
7 Likes
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.

If concern is shown over imigration you are are accused of being racist.

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#2
I wonder what are the bookies odds?
3 Likes #3
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.

Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
1 Like #4
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
Its quite scary oO
7 Likes #5
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.

If concern is shown over imigration you are are accused of being racist.
banned 1 Like #6
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.

This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
2 Likes #7
Germany won't be far behind after the government admitted spending over £10500 a year on every migrant taken in the last 18 months (1.3 million) £13 billion and counting .
banned 3 Likes #8
UK and US sit back whilst mainland Europe goes to war

Our bestest friends are the Americans



Edited By: cchopps on Nov 09, 2016 19:17: update
3 Likes #9
cchopps
UK and US sit back whilst mainland Europe goes to war
We can sell them weapons like we do to Saudi , Bahrain , Egypt and the like
#10
landros1
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
If concern is shown over imigration you are are accused of being racist.
Yes, and if they call you a racist when you don't feel like a racist, how are you to know whether or not they're being entirely honest about a real racist like Le Pen?

http://i.imgur.com/j7K22Yr.jpg
banned 1 Like #11
plodging
cchopps
UK and US sit back whilst mainland Europe goes to war
We can sell them weapons like we do to Saudi , Bahrain , Egypt and the like

And all the refugees could flee to Iraq etc.
1 Like #12
cchopps
plodging
cchopps
UK and US sit back whilst mainland Europe goes to war
We can sell them weapons like we do to Saudi , Bahrain , Egypt and the like
And all the refugees could flee to Iraq etc.
That's Europe sorted .. South America anyone ?
#13
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.

Total agreement.
2 Likes #14
Rubisco
landros1
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
If concern is shown over imigration you are are accused of being racist.
Yes, and if they call you a racist when you don't feel like a racist, how are you to know whether or not they're being entirely honest about a real racist like Le Pen?

http://i.imgur.com/j7K22Yr.jpg

I believe Le Pen loves her country & wants what is best for it .
#15
I don't think that Marine Le Pen is likely to be that much of a problem in France. Whereas Marion Marechal-Le Pen has a lot more about her and could become President in the medium term - probably 10-15 years? She is much more dangerous because she seems considerably more plausible than the older Le Pen. But, things may have changed before her time comes.
#16
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
banned 1 Like #17
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.

Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.

The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
#18
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
It's a good idea to look into the history of the thing as it gives some good pointers for what it's become.

People talked about a common market hundreds of years ago, but this present organisation only came about after WW2.
The idea is wrongly attributed to Sir Winston Churchill - and Churchill did support European nations forming a common market - but he never wanted the UK in it.

Sir Winston had another grouping in mind for the UK, a grouping that would oversee the European market, and he worked with the Yanks on it, but they saw the opportunity of getting it all, and they betrayed Sir Winston and the UK, going ahead with it themselves (obviously behind the scenes) and eventually forcing the UK into a position where they almost had to join.

Ultimately, we went in at the worst possible time under the worst possible terms and were treated shabbily by the Europeans encouraged by the US.





Edited By: tryn2help on Nov 09, 2016 20:01
1 Like #19
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
It changed when countries with massive living standards and earnings differences joined . Obviously the fit and abled saw wages 6,7,8 times and more their wages and upped sticks and left ( and who can blame them) . No one foreseen almost 1 million Poles moving to the uk as well as folks from dozens of other countries.The impact on small towns is remarkable with housing , schools and doctors under pressure . The policy allowing this to happen is to blame , not the people working hard trying to build a better life . But people blame what they can see without thinking it through .
#20
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.

I wish British MPs would remember that.
3 Likes #21
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .

Edited By: plodging on Nov 09, 2016 20:16
#22
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
#23
plodging
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
It changed when countries with massive living standards and earnings differences joined . Obviously the fit and abled saw wages 6,7,8 times and more their wages and upped sticks and left ( and who can blame them) . No one foreseen almost 1 million Poles moving to the uk as well as folks from dozens of other countries.The impact on small towns is remarkable with housing , schools and doctors under pressure . The policy allowing this to happen is to blame , not the people working hard trying to build a better life . But people blame what they can see without thinking it through .


agree 100%.
I know quite a few polish people, the majority work really hard and I don't dislike any I have met or know personally.
here they can earn 4 × the wage they can at home with accommodation roughly the same price with better prospects.
I am sure many people on minimum wage in this country would go abroad for £30 an hour doing unskilled work.
I am sure other countries would not appreciate a couple of million Brits moving there, driving wages down and housing prices up.
to say this is not racist, it's a fact.
3 Likes #24
RonChew
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
No the left traditionally got voted in on the " working class" poor vote and have systematically failed on every occasion , hence the disconnect . The Tories have always been been a bunch of c***s but at least look after their own.
#25
plodging
RonChew
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
No the left traditionally got voted in on the " working class" poor vote and have systematically failed on every occasion , hence the disconnect . The Tories have always been been a bunch of c***s but at least look after their own.
I can't quite see the logic of that. Basically, you seem to be saying that people won't vote for the left/liberals because they're lining their own pockets but they will vote for the Tories because they are, umm, lining their own pockets.

You're treating the 'working class poor' with an awful lot of contempt there.
1 Like #26
shadey12
plodging
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
It changed when countries with massive living standards and earnings differences joined . Obviously the fit and abled saw wages 6,7,8 times and more their wages and upped sticks and left ( and who can blame them) . No one foreseen almost 1 million Poles moving to the uk as well as folks from dozens of other countries.The impact on small towns is remarkable with housing , schools and doctors under pressure . The policy allowing this to happen is to blame , not the people working hard trying to build a better life . But people blame what they can see without thinking it through .

agree 100%.
I know quite a few polish people, the majority work really hard and I don't dislike any I have met or know personally.
here they can earn 4 × the wage they can at home with accommodation roughly the same price with better prospects.
I am sure many people on minimum wage in this country would go abroad for £30 an hour doing unskilled work.
I am sure other countries would not appreciate a couple of million Brits moving there, driving wages down and housing prices up.
to say this is not racist, it's a fact.
Indeed not racist .. Stating a fact mate ... Infact a polish guy I worked with was moaning about Ukrainian workers doing jobs in Poland and keeping wages low . Is he racist ?
#27
RonChew
plodging
RonChew
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
No the left traditionally got voted in on the " working class" poor vote and have systematically failed on every occasion , hence the disconnect . The Tories have always been been a bunch of c***s but at least look after their own.
I can't quite see the logic of that. Basically, you seem to be saying that people won't vote for the left/liberals because they're lining their own pockets but they will vote for the Tories because they are, umm, lining their own pockets.

You're treating the 'working class poor' with an awful lot of contempt there.
No what I am saying is they won't vote labour anymore .. The one chance to have a meaningful vote was the referendum .. The rest is history.
#28
shadey12
plodging
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
It changed when countries with massive living standards and earnings differences joined . Obviously the fit and abled saw wages 6,7,8 times and more their wages and upped sticks and left ( and who can blame them) . No one foreseen almost 1 million Poles moving to the uk as well as folks from dozens of other countries.The impact on small towns is remarkable with housing , schools and doctors under pressure . The policy allowing this to happen is to blame , not the people working hard trying to build a better life . But people blame what they can see without thinking it through .
agree 100%.
I know quite a few polish people, the majority work really hard and I don't dislike any I have met or know personally.
here they can earn 4 × the wage they can at home with accommodation roughly the same price with better prospects.
I am sure many people on minimum wage in this country would go abroad for £30 an hour doing unskilled work.
I am sure other countries would not appreciate a couple of million Brits moving there, driving wages down and housing prices up.
to say this is not racist, it's a fact.
So, why don't a couple of million Brits move abroad if they can get £30 an hour there compared with minimum wage here? This is purely a rhetorical question because I know that there aren't any £30 an hour jobs abroad that the average minimum wage Brit could get.

However, the main reason that the Poles etc come here is because the government and employers want them to boost the economy and provide a pool of cheap labour. Stopping the flow isn't necessarily going to mean that wages will dramatically increase in this country - more likely, prices and taxes will increase and benefits will decrease so the poor will get poorer.
#29
plodging
It changed when countries with massive living standards and earnings differences joined . Obviously the fit and abled saw wages 6,7,8 times and more their wages and upped sticks and left ( and who can blame them) . No one foreseen almost 1 million Poles moving to the uk as well as folks from dozens of other countries.The impact on small towns is remarkable with housing , schools and doctors under pressure . The policy allowing this to happen is to blame , not the people working hard trying to build a better life . But people blame what they can see without thinking it through .
I'd say it changed exactly as the backers intended it to change.

Most of the original countries in the Common Market already had higher living standards in comparison to the former Eastern Bloc countries that were 'allowed' to join later - it was when they joined that we saw the changes you describe.

We need to ask 'why' were they allowed to join - is it really possible that it never crossed the minds of those who endorsed it that the less well off would move to the better off countries?

Once again we see the 'what' happened but miss the 'why' did it happen.
#30
plodging
RonChew
plodging
RonChew
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
No the left traditionally got voted in on the " working class" poor vote and have systematically failed on every occasion , hence the disconnect . The Tories have always been been a bunch of c***s but at least look after their own.
I can't quite see the logic of that. Basically, you seem to be saying that people won't vote for the left/liberals because they're lining their own pockets but they will vote for the Tories because they are, umm, lining their own pockets.
You're treating the 'working class poor' with an awful lot of contempt there.
No what I am saying is they won't vote labour anymore .. The one chance to have a meaningful vote was the referendum .. The rest is history.
So, what will they vote? UKIP, if they're still in existence?
#31
RonChew
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
Don't get caught up in that, Ron, it's a discussion about the development of a flower in ignorance of the plans of the planter.

You know it doesn't make sense, so why entertain it?
#32
RonChew
plodging
RonChew
plodging
RonChew
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
No the left traditionally got voted in on the " working class" poor vote and have systematically failed on every occasion , hence the disconnect . The Tories have always been been a bunch of c***s but at least look after their own.
I can't quite see the logic of that. Basically, you seem to be saying that people won't vote for the left/liberals because they're lining their own pockets but they will vote for the Tories because they are, umm, lining their own pockets.
You're treating the 'working class poor' with an awful lot of contempt there.
No what I am saying is they won't vote labour anymore .. The one chance to have a meaningful vote was the referendum .. The rest is history.
So, what will they vote? UKIP, if they're still in existence?
Or not vote at all .. It's no secret ukip are targeting working class areas.
#33
summerof76
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
Its quite scary oO
It didn't have to be scary but like Brexit and US Elections - those in power/media ignored the vox populi and instead of pointing the racist, bigotry etc fingers they should have fixed the problem but instead have learned a hard lesson

Oh wait do I need to ask a HUKD member if it's OK to comment or have an opinion?
#34
plodging
RonChew
plodging
RonChew
plodging
RonChew
plodging
landros1
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
I wish British MPs would remember that.
The worst offenders are the so called left/liberals .. Living in a Westminster bubble , claiming expenses (still) , on huge salaries , employing friends and family as " researchers" . They have no comprehension why people voted out and have totally lost their core voters . Labour will get a kicking at the next election .
Why are the left/liberals the worst offenders. You're surely not suggesting that this sort of thing isn't exactly what the Tories do? Or, do you think that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do it because they are Tories and all the simple folk will go on voting for them?
No the left traditionally got voted in on the " working class" poor vote and have systematically failed on every occasion , hence the disconnect . The Tories have always been been a bunch of c***s but at least look after their own.
I can't quite see the logic of that. Basically, you seem to be saying that people won't vote for the left/liberals because they're lining their own pockets but they will vote for the Tories because they are, umm, lining their own pockets.
You're treating the 'working class poor' with an awful lot of contempt there.
No what I am saying is they won't vote labour anymore .. The one chance to have a meaningful vote was the referendum .. The rest is history.
So, what will they vote? UKIP, if they're still in existence?
Or not vote at all .. It's no secret ukip are targeting working class areas.

UKIP is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from a spent force.
Most politicians of ALL other political parties voted for remain against the wishes of most of their constituents.
#35
philphil61
It didn't have to be scary but like Brexit and US Elections - those in power/media ignored the vox populi and instead of pointing the racist, bigotry etc fingers they should have fixed the problem but instead have learned a hard lesson
Oh wait do I need to ask a HUKD member if it's OK to comment or have an opinion?
But why did those in power ignore the people?

Most of those in power came from similar backgrounds as the people they represented and held similar views; what caused them to immediately forget/ignore the views of the people?
#36
tryn2help
philphil61
It didn't have to be scary but like Brexit and US Elections - those in power/media ignored the vox populi and instead of pointing the racist, bigotry etc fingers they should have fixed the problem but instead have learned a hard lesson
Oh wait do I need to ask a HUKD member if it's OK to comment or have an opinion?
But why did those in power ignore the people?
Most of those in power came from similar backgrounds as the people they represented and held similar views; what caused them to immediately forget/ignore the views of the people?
Most of those in power came from similar backgrounds as the people they represented
Would you please provide factual details about that statement?
#37
The issue seems to be that people want the benefits of globalisation without having to compete with foreign workers. The thing is people in my industry do that all the time but apparently people like pledging have a problem with that.

Not sure how you put the cork back in the bottle now.
#38
philphil61
tryn2help
philphil61
It didn't have to be scary but like Brexit and US Elections - those in power/media ignored the vox populi and instead of pointing the racist, bigotry etc fingers they should have fixed the problem but instead have learned a hard lesson
Oh wait do I need to ask a HUKD member if it's OK to comment or have an opinion?
But why did those in power ignore the people?
Most of those in power came from similar backgrounds as the people they represented and held similar views; what caused them to immediately forget/ignore the views of the people?
Most of those in power came from similar backgrounds as the people they represented
Would you please provide factual details about that statement?
Firstly, Phil, I'm not arguing with you, just asking you to dig deeper - yes, it's as you wrote - but why? - is all I'm asking.
I reckon if we can understand the 'why' of it, we can better understand all of it.


As regards the politicians coming from similar backgrounds, take for example the majority of Labour politicians were born and bred in working class families.
They held working class values and beliefs all their lives and dropped them immediately upon entering parliament - why?
Were they redirected? Were they told to follow a different line? Who told them, what was the reasoning behind it and why did they so readily accept it?

I think that only by knowing why they did what they did can we have any chance of understanding it - and we need to understand it in order to better deal with it - otherwise it might come back again.
#39
tryn2help
philphil61
tryn2help
philphil61
It didn't have to be scary but like Brexit and US Elections - those in power/media ignored the vox populi and instead of pointing the racist, bigotry etc fingers they should have fixed the problem but instead have learned a hard lesson
Oh wait do I need to ask a HUKD member if it's OK to comment or have an opinion?
But why did those in power ignore the people?
Most of those in power came from similar backgrounds as the people they represented and held similar views; what caused them to immediately forget/ignore the views of the people?
Most of those in power came from similar backgrounds as the people they represented
Would you please provide factual details about that statement?
Firstly, Phil, I'm not arguing with you, just asking you to dig deeper - yes, it's as you wrote - but why? - is all I'm asking.
I reckon if we can understand the 'why' of it, we can better understand all of it.
As regards the politicians coming from similar backgrounds, take for example the majority of Labour politicians were born and bred in working class families.
They held working class values and beliefs all their lives and dropped them immediately upon entering parliament - why?
Were they redirected? Were they told to follow a different line? Who told them, what was the reasoning behind it and why did they so readily accept it?
I think that only by knowing why they did what they did can we have any chance of understanding it - and we need to understand it in order to better deal with it - otherwise it might come back again.
I'm also not arguing ;)
Yes some came from working class backgrounds but IMHO their "philosophy on life" changes to meet with the political elite and again most MP's from working class backgrounds wouldn't be on similar salaries with all those expenses and free lunches if they were still working class

Therefore IMHO their "perception of the real world" is swayed by the politics and the financial aspects

To put fact into this opinion - look at how many politicians supported Remain yet their constituents voted Leave - the MP's weren't listening to the people who put them in power
#40
shadey12
plodging
shadey12
plodging
ICBMiss
tryn2help
ICBMiss
tryn2help
It's far more than just a French trend, this swing to the right is being replicated throughout Europe.
Recent immigration-related issues have increased fears in native voters right across Europe, thus predicting a massive swing to the right throughout Europe is more or less a no-brainer.
This is quite true. EU policies are directly responsible for that too. Those in power within the EU keep going on about open boarders and freedom of movement being their dream, but its not what the population wants en mass. This is what is giving the far right momentum and will continue to rise. Clearly not a good thing, but removal of the issues causing the rise certainly would be.
Yes, but why did the EU adopt such policies - it's one thing to look at what's being done and quite another to look at why it's being done - the 'what' will show the action, but the 'why' will show the reason.
Understanding the reason reveals the bigger picture - and the bigger players.
Politicians are meant to serve the people not their own person agendas.
The common market was a great idea. What a shame it changed. The right would be nowhere to be seen now had it remained that way.
It changed when countries with massive living standards and earnings differences joined . Obviously the fit and abled saw wages 6,7,8 times and more their wages and upped sticks and left ( and who can blame them) . No one foreseen almost 1 million Poles moving to the uk as well as folks from dozens of other countries.The impact on small towns is remarkable with housing , schools and doctors under pressure . The policy allowing this to happen is to blame , not the people working hard trying to build a better life . But people blame what they can see without thinking it through .
agree 100%.
I know quite a few polish people, the majority work really hard and I don't dislike any I have met or know personally.
here they can earn 4 × the wage they can at home with accommodation roughly the same price with better prospects.
I am sure many people on minimum wage in this country would go abroad for £30 an hour doing unskilled work.
I am sure other countries would not appreciate a couple of million Brits moving there, driving wages down and housing prices up.
to say this is not racist, it's a fact.
Indeed not racist .. Stating a fact mate ... Infact a polish guy I worked with was moaning about Ukrainian workers doing jobs in Poland and keeping wages low . Is he racist ?
so if you think I'm racist say it instead of coming out with stupid statements that certain people on here agree with but the majority of eligible voters don't.
I won't answer you but you can have the last insult.
Actually I was agreeing with you 100% ..the story about the polish guy was to point out that he said that but was never accused of racism .. Yet if we said it .. We are racist ... Sorry about the confusion.

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