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Dangerous cycling bill mooted in UK Parliament

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Dangerous cyclist put us at risk. Car drivers v Cyclist v Pedestrians. Conservative backbench MP Andrea Leadsom put forward a motion to increase sentences for dangerous cycling, arguing all road u… Read More
scousekop Avatar
6y, 2w agoPosted 6 years, 2 weeks ago
Dangerous cyclist put us at risk.
Car drivers v Cyclist v Pedestrians.
Conservative backbench MP Andrea Leadsom put forward a motion to increase sentences for dangerous cycling, arguing all road users should take equal responsibility for their actions. It was immediately condemned by CTC, the UK’s national cyclists organisation, who branded it a ‘distraction’ from the more serious issue of cyclists killed by motorists.
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scousekop Avatar
6y, 2w agoPosted 6 years, 2 weeks ago
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#1
Conservative backbench MP Andrea Leadsom put forward a motion to increase sentences for dangerous cycling, arguing all road users should take equal responsibility for their actions. It was immediately condemned by CTC, the UK’s national cyclists organisation, who branded it a ‘distraction’ from the more serious issue of cyclists killed by motorists.

They say the bill is unnecessary, and pointed to the Department for Transport’s Road Casualties Great Britain: 2009 report which found fatal collisions involving pedestrians and cyclists (none in 2009) were rare compared with deaths involving pedestrians and motor vehicles (426).

CTC also highlighted the imbalance in the way the legal system handles these groups. They said that in the last 10 years, the two cyclists who killed pedestrians in collisions were handed prison sentences, whereas small fines and community sentences were given to motorists.

Roger Geffen, CTC’s Campaigns and Policy Director said: “Our ‘Sorry Mate, I Didn’t See You’ website shows numerous cases of drivers receiving derisory sentences for killing or maiming cyclists, or being let off altogether. Only last week, lorry driver Tony Smith received a 100 hour community sentence and a one-year driving ban for killing Vera Chaplin, a 89 year old cyclist in Essex last summer. Last month, driver David Kilgallon received the same sentence for killing 85 year old Barbara Taylor, while she was cycling in Blackpool.

“We would certainly agree that road traffic law needs strengthening.  But the overwhelming priority is to ensure that the authorities use the law to deal with the sources of danger on our roads, and that is overwhelmingly about tackling bad drivers.”

Speaking in the Commons, Ms Leadsom defended the bill, saying it wasn't her intention to criminalise cyclists or discourage them from riding. She cited the case of 17-year-old Rhiannon Bennett, who was walking with friends when she was knocked down and killed by a cyclist in 2007. The cyclist was convicted of 'dangerous cycling' and fined £2,200, but didn't receive a custodial sentence. 

"At the moment, the punishment for cyclists falls far short of the crime, and I believe we need to update the law so that all road users are equally protected and take equal responsibility for their actions," she said. "We should just imagine what would happen if a motorist drove onto a pavement and killed a teenager. If the driver had only walked away with a fine, there would have been a national outcry."
#2
How about giving proportional sentences to drivers, before picking on Cyclist.
3 Likes #3
As a cyclist, I hate all motorists. As a motorist, I hate all cyclists. As a pedestrian I hate everyone. The answer - MORE DEDICATED CYCLE LANES/ROUTES.
4 Likes #4
I'm sure there must be some good cyclist (there has to be). But from my experience of driving in the morning rush hour (in a car), they all seem to have a death wish. None of them stop (or even look) as they sail over red lights. On Tuesday last week one even did it in front of on coming bus while sticking up a middle finger at the driver. He was missed by no more than a couple of feet.

Cyclist need to look to their own community.

Edited By: steve1221 on Apr 03, 2011 19:01
2 Likes #5
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.
#6
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.


I imagine it's roughly equal to the number of motorists who don't give cyclists a wide enough berth, or pull quick left turns right in front of them.
2 Likes #7
FrootCake
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.


I imagine it's roughly equal to the number of motorists who don't give cyclists a wide enough berth, or pull quick left turns right in front of them.


In my opinion you imagine wrong
#8
for some reason, a part of me thinks that its too dangerous to drive a car alongside cyclists
1 Like #9
steve1221
I'm sure there must be some good cyclist (there has to be). But from my experience of driving in the morning rush hour (in a car), they all seem to have a death wish. None of them stop (or even look) as they sail over red lights. On Tuesday last week one even did it in front of on coming bus while sticking up a middle finger at the driver. He was missed by no more than a couple of feet.

Obviously it's a different country, but I can't find the study done in London

http://www.rsconference.com/pdf/RS080140.pdf?check=1

Seems like everyone, only 11%...


steve1221

Cyclist need to look to their own community.


Taken from the official stats on these things:-

In London between 2001-5, 3 cyclists, 7 pedestrians, and 7 motor vehicle occupants were killed when a motorist jumped a red light. During this same period, 2 cyclists died when they jumped red lights. More cyclists die from motorists jumping red lights than from cyclists jumping red lights.

17 vs 2

I'd say motorists need to look to their own community.
#10
FrootCake
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.


I imagine it's roughly equal to the number of motorists who don't give cyclists a wide enough berth, or pull quick left turns right in front of them.


I'm sure that very true, But the difference here is, the motorist may not have seen the cyclist (poor driving I know, I'm not trying to excuse that).
But the cyclists sees the red light and decides to just ignores it, and should anyone, motorist or pedestrian, say anything, they're treated to verbal abuse as the cyclist speeds off.


Edited By: steve1221 on Apr 03, 2011 19:43
1 Like #11
To be fair, I don't think theirs a difference between a cyclist and a motorist if it's the same idiot behind the wheel or riding the bike.

However I think cyclist should be made to do a test like drivers, They should know the highway code and abide by it, So should motorists.
banned#12
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.


And you never see a motorist going through a red light...
#13
master_chief
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.


And you never see a motorist going through a red light...

Yeah but its easier to see a car pull out than a push bike at night,specially since cars have lights and alot of bikes dont.
banned#14
fridgehead
master_chief
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.


And you never see a motorist going through a red light...

Yeah but its easier to see a car pull out than a push bike at night,specially since cars have lights and alot of bikes dont.


I'd say it's generally more dangerous to others for a motorist to skip a red than it is for a cyclist other than to him/herself.
banned#15
One of the bridges I used to drive over quite frequently has big signs telling cyclists to dismount and use the footpath but they still used the road. To be fair, they do speed up a bit when you give them a little nudge.
#16
master_chief
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.


And you never see a motorist going through a red light...


Bikes don't have number plates. Running red lights when cycling is an easy crime to get away with unfortunately.
#17
Also its a bit pointless comparing stats between motorists and cyclists as how many more drivers are there on the roads than cyclists..... 50x, 100x more? So even if it is 17 vs 2 deaths for running a red light, scale that up by those factors and the figures then swing the other way. Lets be honest here, there are stupid drivers but there are equally a stupid amount of cyclists who as others have said just flip you off if they cut you up like its somehow your fault that they are a complete idiot on a bike

If you want to see a reduction in cyclist deaths then it should be mandatory for them all to wear helmets and for it to be enforced. When I'm about in London its very rare to see a cyclist wearing a helmet. Let alone any kind of hazard jacket. Boris Johnson and his bike scheme will have contributed to these accident figures

Edited By: autolesbona on Apr 04, 2011 09:09
banned#18
maximoshark
master_chief
fridgehead
I completely agree with steve1221, the amount of cyclists who just dont follow standard driving rules and just shoot through red lights is shocking.

And you never see a motorist going through a red light...

Bikes don't have number plates. Running red lights when cycling is an easy crime to get away with unfortunately.

I'm more concerned with the safety implications than the legal one.
banned#19
Until cycle riders are made to pay a tax to use the roads and insurance is compulsary, they should have zero preferential treatment. Bloody freeloaders. X)
banned#20
guv
Until cycle riders are made to pay a tax to use the roads and insurance is compulsary, they should have zero preferential treatment. Bloody freeloaders. X)

Cyclist can pay tax to use the roads when motorists do...
#21
I often experience cyclists and motorists ignoring red lights, drivers tend to try and beat the light even though it's already red, maybe having been for a few seconds. Cyclists often just ignore them completely, as a pedestrian you will often find them whooshing through red lights and nearly colliding with you as you cross on a green man. Motorists tend to be a little more careful like that. I think you probably get a similar percentage of motorist running red lights as you do clyclists. Motorists should be more careful though as they can cause so much more damage. Most people aren't stupid and are reasonably careful, but you get a lot that aren't, both cyclists and motorists.
#22
The under pinning point is that bad cyclists are hardly ever accountable for their actions and are dismissed, whereas a vehicle is, from speed cameras to ANPR. Any mode of transportation using UK roads should be answerable to the law and the highway code in all respects, cyclists are no exception.
banned#23
master_chief
guv
Until cycle riders are made to pay a tax to use the roads and insurance is compulsary, they should have zero preferential treatment. Bloody freeloaders. X)

Cyclist can pay tax to use the roads when motorists do...

You mad bro?

Inb4 "I dont pay for a road tax disc"
banned#24
guv
master_chief
guv
Until cycle riders are made to pay a tax to use the roads and insurance is compulsary, they should have zero preferential treatment. Bloody freeloaders. X)

Cyclist can pay tax to use the roads when motorists do...

You mad bro?

Inb4 "I dont pay for a road tax disc"

Read up Guv, you pay Vehicle Emmisions Tax which allows you to use your car on the road. As a bicycle has no emmisions they're exempt.
banned#25
master_chief
guv
master_chief
guv
Until cycle riders are made to pay a tax to use the roads and insurance is compulsary, they should have zero preferential treatment. Bloody freeloaders. X)

Cyclist can pay tax to use the roads when motorists do...

You mad bro?

Inb4 "I dont pay for a road tax disc"

Read up Guv, you pay Vehicle Emmisions Tax which allows you to use your car on the road. As a bicycle has no emmisions they're exempt.

I'm aware they have GRADED the ROAD TAX payable dependant on emissions....... and I suppose according to your theory, cars over 25 years of age emit none (like cycles!) X)
banned#26
guv
master_chief
guv
master_chief
guv
Until cycle riders are made to pay a tax to use the roads and insurance is compulsary, they should have zero preferential treatment. Bloody freeloaders. X)

Cyclist can pay tax to use the roads when motorists do...

You mad bro?

Inb4 "I dont pay for a road tax disc"

Read up Guv, you pay Vehicle Emmisions Tax which allows you to use your car on the road. As a bicycle has no emmisions they're exempt.

I'm aware they have GRADED the ROAD TAX payable dependant on emissions....... and I suppose according to your theory, cars over 25 years of age emit none (like cycles!) X)

No it's a misconception that the VET covers the costs of road maintenance.
[mod]#27
Think you hate cyclists?? X)

http://goofygifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/funny-animated-gifs-justice-is-served.gif
banned 1 Like #28
You think that fella was angry ?

http://i54.tinypic.com/256txjo.gif
banned#29
master_chief
guv
I'm aware they have GRADED the ROAD TAX payable dependant on emissions....... and I suppose according to your theory, cars over 25 years of age emit none (like cycles!) X)

No it's a misconception that the VET covers the costs of road maintenance.

True. It pays foy it 10 times over!

PS are roads made and maintained by the road fairies?
#30
Got no problem with Cyclists, just the elitist type who think they don't have to move to make it safer for themselves when sitting in the middle of the road with there spandex on when i'm trying to overtake. I see a car and I'm cycling I don't make it difficult for the car to overtake me.
#31
Adam2050
Got no problem with Cyclists, just the elitist type who think they don't have to move to make it safer for themselves when sitting in the middle of the road with there spandex on when i'm trying to overtake. I see a car and I'm cycling I don't make it difficult for the car to overtake me.

I always find this a difficult one. Sitting in the middle of the road is the only way I know to stop drivers overtaking in to incoming traffic on narrow roads. I've had quite a few near misses lately where some idiot has put my life, the life of all other drivers around him/her and his/her own life at serious risk by trying to go round me when there's not enough room. I never do it on roads that are wide enough though, that just holds up traffic for no reason. And I don't actually like driving down the centre, it's just the only slither of control I have over my own safety in that situation.
#32
Considering how light bikes are and the fact cyclists are more at risk than pedestrians due to sharing the road with cars I feel that there is no point focusing on cyclists. Basically you act stupid on a cycle and you can die easily.

When you see images like this of drunk drivers with no regard for others, killing people due to their total indifference to the lives of others its obvious where our attention should be focused;

http://wow-factor.com/media/users/john/cycle_wideweb.jpg

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