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Dangerous Dogs

ChrisUK Avatar
9y, 10m agoPosted 9 years, 10 months ago
Hi guys,

Thought I'd start a discussion on dangerous dogs, seeing as what is going on lately.

The Govt are to review the dangerous dogs act - and I know that living in Liverpool, the police are stopping ANYONE walking around with a Pit Bull, and it will get destroyed.

Now I own a staffordshire bull terrier - and it is a very muscley dog, with a close resemblance to a pit bull, and after recent events, you can actually see people crossing the street to avoid you when out on walks.

Now, my dog is as soft as anything (it might lick you to death - but thats about it), but I brought it up this way from a puppy. My point being that, why destroy a certain breed of dog as it is cast with a bad name in the media.

It should be the owners being destroyed, not the dog. Any dog can be trained to fight, just like a human. If I taught a young boy to steal form a young age, when he grows up, he will do just that, becasue that is how he has been brought up to live his life.

These dogs that are trained to fight & kill are only doing so to please thier owners - so dont ban a breed, just enforce the ownership !!!

I know that dogs, such as the staffordshire bull terrier were originally bred for dog fighting (as bull dogs tired too quickly & were not as agile) - but the official Kennel Club Description officially states:


Characteristics

Traditionally of indomitable courage and tenacity. Highly intelligent and affectionate especially with children.


I know mine loves kids, if it see's one on a walk, it will flip over on it's back & invite a tickle on it's belly.


What do you guys think ?
ChrisUK Avatar
9y, 10m agoPosted 9 years, 10 months ago
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#1
Here's a nice pic to show how dangerous they can be......

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2038/mills15lh.jpg
#2
Ive known lots of staffys over the years, all as soft as anything!

I cant understand why the goverment got rid of dog licences years ago?

Maybe all dogs owned should now have compulsary licence and tagging.

It might stop people owning too many dogs that they cant cope with and then having to get the RSPCA to deal with them and also may control who has certain types of dogs or keep tags on people who are known to treat or train dogs in a certain way.

I agree its the [COLOR=red]owners[/COLOR] not the dogs...the way they are treated and trained can change a dogs behaviour...

What I dont understand is that these responsable parents left the children with the dogs that had shown this aggresive behaviour before!

Wasn't that little girl attacked at 5am or something? where were the parents/adults?

I was attacked as a small child by a jack russell and was very close to losing my eye...all I was doing was going down the path to my grandparents and the dog came from nowhere and bit me.

The owners were no where to be seen and it certainly wasnt the only dog in their posession. This is definatly not a dog on the dangerous list but shows you its more the owners and not the dog breeds.

Kim
#3
A relatively new dog owner here...

I don't think you can ever say a dog would never bite no matter how they have behaved in the past - if they are put in a situation that they find threatening they may turn nasty, and the bigger and stronger they are the more serious the consequences could be. It comes down to being a responsible owner and not letting things get into that situation in the first place.

Does anyone watch "Dog Borstal" on TV? That demonstrates how effective good training can be to produce a dog that has socially acceptable behaviour. The owners need as much training as the dogs in most cases.
#4
Agreed - but what I'm getting at is the social misconception of banning/killing certain breeds of dogs, just because of how they are looked upon by society/media.
#5
I too own a staffie , shes an irish staff which are longer legged and resemble a pitbull slightly more than the shorter staffs, people have been giving me a wide birth when I'm walking her but they've done this even before all that pitbull stuff on the news , because staffs have a bad rep, with other dogs especially.

I socialised my dog from as soon as she could go out with other dogs and people and the only thing i worry about is her jumping up people after some fuss!

She is saft as s*** and I let my kids lie with her and play with her n all that but I would never leave her alone with them because although I trust her I think theres always that chance, and my kids are too precious to risk it.

That dog borstal is a brilliant program (mick is so funny) but it shocks me how stupid and irresponsible some people are with there dogs treating them like they're babies it drives me mad !!

http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CCompaq_Owner%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5Ctia

I'm strict with my dog and what i say goes and it works shes well behaved (most of the time!) and she respects me for it .

http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CCompaq_Owner%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5Ctia
banned#6
I too own two Staffordhire bull terriers, one is just coming up to two years old and the other is only a pup. The older one was attacked by two MUCH larger dogs when he was around 6 months old, they shattered his back leg. It was only because hewas so tough that he survived the trauma. It was the first dog attacked dog that the vet had managed to save. It took about months to heal and his leg was pinned up. One grabbed his neck and the other his back leg and was getting stretched and mauled, I managedto hitone of them with a wheel barrow and somebody managed to gab the slighty smaller one. I always wonder what would have happned if that wasn't my dog that was attacked but a child, would a child have survived?

After this you would have thought this dog that had been attacked would be become nevous and therefore aggresive? Well he did not, down to the point of one day walking in the park I had a Mother walk up to me and ask if her child could stroke him, before I said yes, the child put both hands round my dogs lips and into the mouth. He stood there and did nothing! He wasn't brought up with children, but my niece loves him also.

That dog is my best friend, my only friend if I were to admit it.

I personally do not like dog borstal, I did like its me or the dog though, well until i did that you are what you eat style show!!
#7
My misses treats ours like a child !!! - but then again, she act's like one lol

Thats the only trouble I have, mines only 13 months old, and it loves to investigate things & people. It likes to jump up and lick your hands, but when it tries doing this in the Street, some people freak out as I have to pull it closer to me when I see it is eyeing someone up !
#8
Mine does this too (shes 20 mths) bit of advice if your dog does this in the house when you have visitors just ask them to turn their back when he/she jumps up, your dog will eventually get the message, we do this with mine and it does work.

My dog jumps up when I'm out too she just thinks everybody wants to love her and fuss her! I take a treat in my hand and when she sees another dog or person just show her the treat she soon loses interest and wants the treat!

Don't get me wrong I'm no expert every dogs different but I was having nightmares with mine at the start but with effort trial and error you get there in the end! :-D
#9
Yea, we have taught her hand signals along with voice commands (sit, stay, down etc), so when she does jump up, a hand signal usually suffices these days, but she still actually goes to do it......

Anyway, back on topic. Should the Govt ban Pit Bulls & kill any of them they find (even as household pets) ?
#10
ChrisUK
Hi guys,
It should be the owners being destroyed, not the dog. Any dog can be trained to fight, just like a human. If I taught a young boy to steal form a young age, when he grows up, he will do just that, becasue that is how he has been brought up to live his life.

These dogs that are trained to fight & kill are only doing so to please thier owners - so dont ban a breed, just enforce the ownership !!!


Spot on.

I've noticed one common factor with a lot of dog attacks, invariably these dogs are often kept locked in yards on their own most of the time. Dogs are intelligent, social animals, they need company. Deprive them of this for a long period of time and there's a good chance they will be slowly driven mad.

p.s. if I ever bought a dog, staffies would be very high on the list of breeds I'd consider, every one I've ever met has been a big soppy mutt too.
[helper]#11
What this boils down to is nature or nurture.........

Is it the genetics of the dog or the environment that one is brought up in?

I think its a probably combination of both. If a dog has an aggressive tendency and is brought up in the worng environment....

That said some dog owners are completely irresponsible. My mother was bitten recently by a neighbours dog in the presence of her neighbour who refused to believe the dog had bitten my mother. It was just a graze but it had broken the skin and left some teeth marks. The thing that worries me is this neighbour regularly has her grandchildren round to visit so will this dog bite them?
#12
ChrisUK
Anyway, back on topic. Should the Govt ban Pit Bulls & kill any of them they find (even as household pets) ?


No, I think we agree on this one :)

I would be in favour of some sort of vetting and licensing process for all owners of powerful, so called 'dangerous' breeds though.

As a dog owner, how would you feel about a law making it compulsory for all dogs, regardless of breed, to be muzzled in a public places, even when on a lead? I wouldn't have any problem with this at all.
#13
gari189
That said some dog owners are completely irresponsible. My mother was bitten recently by a neighbours dog in the presence of her neighbour who refused to believe the dog had bitten my mother. It was just a graze but it had broken the skin and left some teeth marks. The thing that worries me is this neighbour regularly has her grandchildren round to visit so will this dog bite them?


Sounds like our next door neighbours when I was a kid, they had a miniature poodle who was a nast little s*** but they point blank called me a liar when I told my dad he'd bit me. 'spose it's a bit like some parents who refuse to believe their child would ever misbehave.
#14
Argh, don't get me started on dangerous dogs! For short answer is its really dangerous owners, even a well meaning owner can take on the wrong breed/dog for them. IMO all dog owning should need a license first. Therefore if you want anything from a mongrel to great dane to pitbull, you have to pass a test on the breed your interested in as well as for general care. (ok maybe that would be harder for mongrels but to be honest if all owners were fully vetted you'd only really get planned crosses and new owners would take tests on the 2 crossed breeds.

Not only would all that ease the pressure on kennels but on the poor dogs to begin with. I'd also like to force all breeders to do a take back scheme, therefore if the home can't keep the dog for what ever reason, it doesn't end up in a kennel where there is a chance of badly vetted owners getting it. (i know SOME kennels/catteries try, but they just don't have the time or space to make sure the owners are right before they take them.

As a soon to be breeder myself (would already be one, but bitches season times get messed up). ALL my dogs potential owners will be vetted to the extreme. Then on top of that all will be sent out with contracts and clauses of ownership. Which will help (though unfortunatley can't guarntee) both owner and dog to have a long relationship.

If all pet relationships started like this I think you could significantly reduce dangerous owners right there. It would also be useful if there was some way of making owners train their dogs instead of letting them rule, and on top of that if instead of destroying badly trained dogs (dogs trained to fight etc) they were retrained by proffesionals and handed over to better homes. I have personally worked with dogs termed to dangerous for the police and I've found them to be great dogs who were just in the wrong situation. If them kind of dogs can be worked with then I'm willing to take a go with any dog. As for the dangerous dogs act as it is, its a disgrace. Certain breeds are certainly more powerful then others, but terming certain breeds more dangerous is ridiculus any dog put with the idiots we're seeing in the news could be dangerous no matter its breed.

Oh well I think I've ranted enough for a short answer, just imagine if it had been long, lol.

Oh btw if you haven't figured, then no i don't think the gov should be killing these poor dogs. If I had a big enough place and 100 more hours in the day to look after them I'd take them all.
1 Like #15
Another thing I do, is when I come home from work I don't make a fuss
of the dog straight away. I take my coat off and go and make a brew
and then I make the dog sit in front of me before I give her any attention.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/stuntkiteman/pinkmeg.jpg
#16
I think muzzles are a good idea just to be on the safe side at least then if a dog does turn then they won't do much damage.

I don't think pitbulls should be killed at all (rapists and kiddy fiddlers don't get killed so why should pitbulls) but I think a law ought to be brought in to proove that your a responsible dog owner, perhaps attend classes or something to help those people who haven't got a clue in looking after dogs.
#17
We have a Boxer and have noticed even towards us attitudes have changed due to recent events and press coverage.

IMO - it is all down to the owners and how they control and manage the dog. If you knows it nasty (even with other dogs) then it should always be muzzled when out.
#18
Scorpius
No, I think we agree on this one :)

I would be in favour of some sort of vetting and licensing process for all owners of powerful, so called 'dangerous' breeds though.

As a dog owner, how would you feel about a law making it compulsory for all dogs, regardless of breed, to be muzzled in a public places, even when on a lead? I wouldn't have any problem with this at all.


I personally wouldn't be happy with this, I do muzzle my dog in some situations (not for peoples safety usually but equipments safety she always tries to eat the hair dryer when her groomers using it lol). But when she is on lead with me she should not have to endure the restraignt of a muzzle, on the other hand people SHOULD ask before they stroke her, as your an idiot to go upto a dog you don't know and pet it without knowing what its like, my question is why do people not teach their kids to do this before they go to a strange dog these days? I've had children run upto my dog and wrap their hands straight round her neck in a hug, am ?I the only one who sees dangers in this? The dog in question happens to be a 'discover dogs' dog though and used to this behaviour so happy to get the attention, but omg why aren't people stopping kids from doing this before one gets bitten and the dog blamed.
#19
I tell my kids over and over again not to go near strange dogs but sometimes they just forget themselves it seems to come naturally to some children (especially if the dogs are cute and fluffy), children don't know any better and sometimes its too late to stop them or shout at them not to cuddle a dog, thats why I think its the dog owners responsibility (as adults) to have your dog under strict control at all times while out .

I saw a boy of about 10 years the other day walking 2 massive Alsations I was shocked , I mean these dogs might be soft as anything but if they ever got into a fight or went to attack the boy wouldn't have been able to control them or do anything, to me thats extreme irresponsibilty of the boys parents.
#20
pawsntails
As a soon to be breeder myself (would already be one, but bitches season times get messed up). ALL my dogs potential owners will be vetted to the extreme.


When we were looking for our dog we visited a breeder who wanted to check out the potential owners and we had to fill in a lengthy questionaire. By the time we left the kids had labelled her the "crazy dog woman" - she had a litter of puppies and 6 adult dogs running around, they were jumping up all other the kids, running over the furniture, barking and growling at the kids. Chatting it emerged that she was worried she would not have room on her bed for one of the pups from her litter as all her adult dogs slept on the bed with her! She also NEVER took her dogs for a walk, only let them run in the garden, and seemed REALLY pleased that one of the pup was going to a person with agrophobia as it would never be left alone because the owner wouldn't be leaving the house! Needless to say she didn't think we were suitable owners for one of her pups as we wanted a dog, not another "child"!

I agree that some form of registration scheme for ownership and perhaps have certain restrictions, although I guess it would cost a fair bit to admin. and would it get effectively policed?

ANyone know why the previous dog licence scheme that was around years ago was abolished - cost???
#21
erics
ANyone know why the previous dog licence scheme that was around years ago was abolished - cost???


I think because it was difficult to enforce and a lot of dog owners didn't bother anyway.
#22
Scorpius
I think because it was difficult to enforce and a lot of dog owners didn't bother anyway.


That would be what I would have expected, and perhaps why it wouldn't work again today. If any scheme were introduced to ensure owners are responsible, perhaps it should also be extended to child as well, but that is geting OT!
#23
lol, ok just want to say I'm not a crazy dog lady, though I have met that kind of breeder. My home is completely sane, and the animals do not rule our lives, hopefully when people visit our house they'll see my as a normal person trying to match the right dog to the right owner, for both their sakes.
#24
malibu777
I too own a staffie , shes an irish staff which are longer legged and resemble a pitbull slightly more than the shorter staffs, people have been giving me a wide birth when I'm walking her but they've done this even before all that pitbull stuff on the news , because staffs have a bad rep, with other dogs especially.

I socialised my dog from as soon as she could go out with other dogs and people and the only thing i worry about is her jumping up people after some fuss!

She is saft as s*** and I let my kids lie with her and play with her n all that but I would never leave her alone with them because although I trust her I think theres always that chance, and my kids are too precious to risk it.

That dog borstal is a brilliant program (mick is so funny) but it shocks me how stupid and irresponsible some people are with there dogs treating them like they're babies it drives me mad !!

http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CCompaq_Owner%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5Ctia

I'm strict with my dog and what i say goes and it works shes well behaved (most of the time!) and she respects me for it .

http://C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CCompaq_Owner%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20Pictures%5Ctia


my sister has a staffy which is soft, however she too will not leave him in the same room alone with children,its just not worth the risk
#25
Any dog can be dangerous its the way the owners bring the dogs up. My mate has a doberman and she is so soft and very well behaved. I worked in kennels and found border collies the worse, ive been bit by three different border collies.
#26
The problem with pit bulls is that they are working dogs and require a very firm hand and to be kept active.

They are not a practical pet unless somone is an expert (you can domesticate a lion if you know what you are doing) so they should clearly be illegal.
#27
lawrenzini
The problem with pit bulls is that they are working dogs and require a very firm hand and to be kept active.

They are not a practical pet unless somone is an expert (you can domesticate a lion if you know what you are doing) so they should clearly be illegal.


The majority of dogs were originally breed for some purpose of work, so I do not follow your logic. Should all "working dogs" be illegal - border collies, spaniels, retrievers, terriers, etc.
#28
lawrenzini
The problem with pit bulls is that they are working dogs and require a very firm hand and to be kept active.

They are not a practical pet unless somone is an expert (you can domesticate a lion if you know what you are doing) so they should clearly be illegal.


Shouldn't that make it clear that we need tabs on people who are owning these dogs, instead of making them illegal, because as you say an expert can handle them, so why should said expert be banned?
#29
Oh and this isn't just about pits, this is about all dogs being termed as dangerous breeds in the act isn't? I mean how long before rotties join the list and they are very good dogs. At this rate we're going to end up with lists as stupid as in other countries. For example 'bull' breeds in germany, meaning all you with pet staffies can not take them to germany for over 4weeks when on vacation, because they term them a dangerous breed.
#30
pawsntails
meaning all you with pet staffies can not take them to germany for over 4weeks when on vacation, because they term them a dangerous breed.


How pathetic & uneducated some countries can be eh !!
#31
pawsntails
Shouldn't that make it clear that we need tabs on people who are owning these dogs, instead of making them illegal, because as you say an expert can handle them, so why should said expert be banned?

So are you trying to claim that for example a wolf can or should be kept as a pet? Obviously not, not all dogs have the right temprement for being pets.

Maybe you could use a pit bull in something like farming where the dog is a working dog, however it is not worth legalising the breed for this reason.

As for the comments regarding collies etc being bread as working dogs, they were bred to live as pets, not specifically for fighting! Bit of a difference there!
#32
Staffordshire Bull Terriers were bred for fighting years ago, that is how the breed orginated - now I havent met a single one who isn't soft as a baby.

You can turn a baby into a killer, if it is brought up that way into adulthood - same as a dog.
#33
lawrenzini
So are you trying to claim that for example a wolf can or should be kept as a pet? Obviously not, not all dogs have the right temprement for being pets.

Maybe you could use a pit bull in something like farming where the dog is a working dog, however it is not worth legalising the breed for this reason.

As for the comments regarding collies etc being bread as working dogs, they were bred to live as pets, not specifically for fighting! Bit of a difference there!


Actually I am, I do believe Wolves can be kept by experts, infact I happen to know someone who had a wolf cross that lived very happily to a ripe old age and was as good as any other dog. If I had the facilities and room and could give the proper attention to its needs I would have a wolf.

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