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Debit Card Fraud help.

flp14344 Avatar
6y, 7m agoPosted 6 years, 7 months ago
Hello Guys,Please help.....,

here is what happen :
My mum lost her Lloyd's Tsb debit card the day she was leaving uk for holiday( she thinks anyway) and cash been taken form her account, she was away for 1 month, she din't realise about the card because she din't want to use it abroad i.e..,for their charge using card abroad, so she carried enough cash,
she realised card was missing next day after coming back form holiday,when she was about to pay for shopping., and their was letter from Lloyd's like 2 weeks into holiday sent to home address from branch saying that please contact them immediately regarding ATM transactions...,so she went to branch with letter only to get big shock that cash was missing from account, about £8000..., £7500 in cash took from ATM rest for shopping.,
Lloyd's told her that she will get all the money back, as she was not in the country during this time....,
they took few details and said someone will contact from fraud department for an interview in weeks time..,so after one week their was interview over the phone.., she said the guy asking few questions and when he asked about pin number,she told him that she kept pin written down,in the same pouch as card.., so the guy straight away said she not going get any money back as she broke the rules : not to keep the pin and card together.,

i know that's the rules but she is old now she can't remember things and that's why she wrote it down...., she is diabetic and memory is Low....,

she got letter through form fraud department saying that she can appeal....,

so is their anyway that she gona get her money back., any advise guys.....,
flp14344 Avatar
6y, 7m agoPosted 6 years, 7 months ago
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#1
I guess its the same as leaving your car unlocked and it gets stolen, if insurance find out they pay out as far as im aware.

Very expensive lesson learnt
#2
numptyj
I guess its the same as leaving your car unlocked and it gets stolen, if insurance find out they pay out as far as im aware.

Very expensive lesson learnt


if only i knew b4 i could told her not tell him.., but she is like always want to speak truth..,:whistling:
#3
flp14344
if only i knew b4 i could told her not tell him.., but she is like always want to speak truth..,:whistling:


yeah, its an easy mistake to make I guess admitting to it when you just want to state the facts, hopefully someone can help...or at least the fact that the fraud department will allow an appeal means maybe she will get lucky
#4
numptyj
yeah, its an easy mistake to make I guess admitting to it when you just want to state the facts, hopefully someone can help...or at least the fact that the fraud department will allow an appeal means maybe she will get lucky


but the thing is I don't really know what to write in the letter or how to go on about it:whistling:
#5
Your PIN should never be written down. Unfortunately your money is gone...

Expensive mistake to make, and also to tell them about the pin???


It is not a easy mistake to make.. Rather a stupid one..?
#6
Chiptivo
Your PIN should never be written down. Unfortunately your money is gone...

Expensive mistake to make, and also to tell them about the pin???


It is not a easy mistake to make.. Rather a stupid one..?


i know that's the rules but she is old now she can't remember things and that's why she wrote it down...., she is diabetic and memory is Low....,
#7
numptyj
i know that's the rules but she is old now she can't remember things and that's why she wrote it down...., she is diabetic and memory is Low....,


exactly :thumbsup:
#8
She won't get no money back ! you never keep you pin and card together and even worse never tell them it was together, appeal but don't really know what to expect its in the terms i guess.
#9
numptyj
i know that's the rules but she is old now she can't remember things and that's why she wrote it down...., she is diabetic and memory is Low....,


i can sympathise with you regarding this issue perhaps you can go and see the manager at the bank or give the fraud department a call back and explain whether or not they can return this money just this once on compassionate grounds due to the issues she has with her memory etc and that in the future the pin number will not be kept together or written down (yes you can fib but learn from this lesson)
#10
If i was her why dont she just say the person on the phone was mistaken , that you never had the pin together with the card and cause she is old she got confused by all the questions its up to them to prove otherwise.

Some may say the bank charges are a big fat lie on how much it really cost so if banks can play that game im sure she can.
#11
kronas
i can sympathise with you regarding this issue perhaps you can go and see the manager at the bank or give the fraud department a call back and explain whether or not they can return this money just this once on compassionate grounds due to the issues she has with her memory etc and that in the future the pin number will not be kept together or written down (yes you can fib but learn from this lesson)


well all this transactions happened through branch.., I mean arranging call from fraud dep and rest.
#12
Unfortunately I think as she didn't follow the guidelines the Bank don't have to, and are unlikely to, refund the money. In the future maybe her card can be set to an easily remembered number, like the year of her birth or your birth, first 4 digits of her phone number, or something she's likely to have ingrained in her long term memory.
On this occasion honesty doesn't pay as if she had kept quiet the money would have been refunded, but it's an important (if expensive) lesson to learn.
It might be worth asking the bank to pursue it and find the CCTV from the ATMs at the time that the money was withdrawn and get them to pass this onto the police, it's such a lot of money that I'm sure they'll be interested in getting the culprits.
#13
A-n-d-y
If i was her why dont she just say the person on the phone was mistaken , that you never had the pin together with the card and cause she is old she got confused by all the questions its up to them to prove otherwise


She did say to that guy it was only because of her memory and can't remember...., the guy was never prepared to listen it seems.., and keep telling her that she won't get any money back,
#14
numptyj
i know that's the rules but she is old now she can't remember things and that's why she wrote it down...., she is diabetic and memory is Low....,


I know.. I am sorry... Really am, and if I had the money, I would give it to your mum, or you...

I just think 4 numbers are easy to remember. Would she forget your birthdate??? I know you arn't supposed to use birthdays or anything, but the bank don't know that.. The bank can never find out your pin, and the systems used can not display a pin at any level..

Take care, and I hope you get some back... I would argue through the banks ombudsman that they have systems to monitor spending habits, and the card should of been blocked by the bank well before it reached the amount taken.
#15
OP, So basically £250 per day was withdrawn from your mums account for 30 consecutive days.....

This is poor fraud prevention on behalf of Lloyds imo, i'm guessing your mum has never withdrawn cash on such a scale in her life,

Personally ive had my card stopped on 4 seperate occasions when ive tried to use it at unusual hours in the morning, followed the next day by a call from my banks fraud department.

Although your mum is at fault regarding the pin i would tell your mum to fight it and turn it back onto their ineptness, good luck :thumbsup:
#16
Chiptivo
I know.. I am sorry... Really am, and if I had the money, I would give it to your mum, or you...

I just think 4 numbers are easy to remember. Would she forget your birthdate??? I know you arn't supposed to use birthdays or anything, but the bank don't know that.. The bank can never find out your pin, and the systems used can not display a pin at any level..

Take care, and I hope you get some back... I would argue through the banks ombudsman that they have systems to monitor spending habits, and the card should of been blocked by the bank well before it reached the amount taken.


I thought that aswell.., i mean when they send the letter out why din't they block card??
i thinking to raise that point in the letter..,
#17
flp14344;8692463
She did say to that guy it was only because of her memory and can't remember...., the guy was never prepared to listen it seems.., and keep telling her that she won't get any money back,

Just appeal , make a strong case say in the letter how you felt the guy didnt listen and because of her age she felt confused and didnt get chance to explain herself.

Say you will have to complain to the Financial Ombudsman if the matter is not taken seriously.

She didnt leave the pin with her card!

Just make sure she never does it again with the pin ...as not only is she at risk of it happening again she is also at risk to getting someone to mug her if they see her in a shop and that she has it all wrote down
banned#18
flp14344
I thought that aswell.., i mean when they send the letter out why din't they block card??
i thinking to raise that point in the letter..,


Try and use this against them. Seems as though you are being too honest. Just lie about things like keeping the pin together, how well secured it was etc...

I was guted about losing my £20 note the other day, really feel for your mum, and hope they catch the scumbag who took the money. I think you'll have a good chance, Lloyds really should have blocked the card after a few transactions.

Good luck, let us know how it goes :thumbsup:
#19
transit
OP, So basically £250 per day was withdrawn from your mums account for 30 consecutive days.....

This is poor fraud prevention on behalf of Lloyds imo, i'm guessing your mum has never withdrawn cash on such a scale in her life,

Personally ive had my card stopped on 4 seperate occasions when ive tried to use it at unusual hours in the morning, followed the next day by a call from my banks fraud department.

Although your mum is at fault regarding the pin i would tell your mum to fight it and turn it back onto their ineptness, good luck :thumbsup:


exactly.., they did realise that their was something going on and sent a letter instead of blocking the card., and she hardly take about £1000 a month i guess..., for shopping and giving me some every month when i go home......, i so sad...., i really don't know what to do now..,
#20
Don't forget someone has committed a crime, they will know the dates, times and machines used, so some sort of CCTV will find the culprit...
banned#21
I get a phone call for any unusual spending on my account even for small amounts like £30, it won't go through till it's been cleared. I would definitely take that line with them.
#22
Chiptivo
Don't forget someone has committed a crime, they will know the dates, times and machines used, so some sort of CCTV will find the culprit...


but they are not prepared to do anything..., because of pin and card..., because of cost involved in going further i guess....,
#23
lumoruk
I get a phone call for any unusual spending on my account even for small amounts like £30, it won't go through till it's been cleared. I would definitely take that line with them.


same with me, my card was blocked when i tried to buy a game online at 2am(....couldnt sleep :p) for £14.

that is very bad fraud prevention its a joke that it got that much out of hand to allow thousands to be taken before anything was done or before it was even flagged up to them to watch the spending and realise it was different to what the ordinary spending habit is.
#24
Peterdj41
same with me, my card was blocked when i tried to buy a game online at 2am(....couldnt sleep :p) for £14.

that is very bad fraud prevention its a joke that it got that much out of hand to allow thousands to be taken before anything was done or before it was even flagged up to them to watch the spending and realise it was different to what the ordinary spending habit is.


I will try to raise that point but they might say you are out country anyway, that's why we sent letter......, but they should block the card.....,
#25
Thanks for the help guys.., Got one points to make....,
1) why was the card not blocked instead of sending letter,


any more points to make:whistling:
#26
flp14344
I will try to raise that point but they might say you are out country anyway, that's why we sent letter......, but they should block the card.....,


At the time it happened though they didnt know that your mother was out of the country so they cant use that as an excuse for only sending a letter
banned#27
they should have realised the unusual transactions

my bank does, all the time, and did it yesterday, just as i was in a shop buying a new phone as my old one I dropped, had to go all the way home phone the bank, and go back out to the shop again!
#28
jubbyme
they should have realised the unusual transactions

my bank does, all the time, and did it yesterday, just as i was in a shop buying a new phone as my old one I dropped, had to go all the way home phone the bank, and go back out to the shop again!


Were all the phone boxes broken???

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:s3fCtH7i0jbcFM:http://www.bengoldstein.es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/1-banksy-phone-box.jpg
banned#29
Chiptivo
Were all the phone boxes broken???

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:s3fCtH7i0jbcFM:http://www.bengoldstein.es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/1-banksy-phone-box.jpg


no, but i dont carry all the required phone numbers and the code words i need to access my account, besides, there is a lack of phone boxes, and they smell of wee :-D
#30
Just found this link for you mate,

http://www.lloydstsb.com/debit_cards/fraud_protection.asp

Protection against Fraud Loss

[COLOR="Red"]We use sophisticated fraud detection systems to help keep your money secure by checking the purchase activity on your account.[/COLOR]

We [COLOR="#ff0000"]react very quickly[/COLOR] whenever we think spending patterns might indicate a potential fraud. This includes the use of an [COLOR="#ff0000"]automated telephone calling service which can call you if a suspicious transaction is detected.[/COLOR] This allows you to confirm recent transactions, or allows you to speak to one of our operators. These automated calls allow us to be proactive in our fraud protection and we will never ask you to divulge, in full, any passwords or sensitive account information. If you are ever in doubt about the authenticity of any calls or have questions about our automated calling service, please call us on 0800 096 9779 in the UK, or (+44) 1702 278 270 from abroad*.

We understand how distressing it can be to be the victim of fraud and we take our duty of helping to keep your accounts and personal details safe very seriously. If we have reason to be [COLOR="#ff0000"]concerned about certain spending and cannot reach you we may ask for more security checks to be performed at the point of transaction or, exceptionally, we may stop further purchases until we are sure it is you. [/COLOR]
To make sure we can contact you, please ensure we have your up-to-date mobile (or best contact) number by calling 0845 3 000 000.

If you are ever subjected to fraud, our [COLOR="#ff0000"]expert operators will put a stop to it as soon as we are aware,[/COLOR] as well as ensuring you are reimbursed for any losses incurred through no fault of your own. We will also send you a new card as soon as possible (usually within 48 hours).

Have highlighted some points in that quote from the website which they obviously didnt stick to in this case, really hope you get it sorted i would hate to have any money taken from me through fraud never mind thousands.
#31
Peterdj41
Just found this link for you mate,

http://www.lloydstsb.com/debit_cards/fraud_protection.asp



Have highlighted some points in that quote from the website which they obviously didnt stick to in this case, really hope you get it sorted i would hate to have any money taken from me through fraud never mind thousands.


really good point's, many thanks:thumbsup:
#32
For what it's worth, if you ever need to write a PIN down, you have to do it in a format that isn't obvious. Like, write it as a fake phone number, ie 077XXXX8205, where the four Xs are the PIN) or add a couple of dummy digits, or invert the numbers (2 becomes 8, 3 becomes 7, 4 becomes 6, etc), or, y'know, just whatever seems to make sense. An unencrypted PIN is just asking to be plundered.

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