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Details about a PGCE

shuwaz Avatar
5y, 8m agoPosted 5 years, 8 months ago
Can anybody advise me about a PGCE?

I am thinking about doing one (have a degree in Computing and a CELTA). I would like to stick with teaching computing but dont mind going into English (the CELTA is far superior to an English degree in my opinion anyway).

I dont really want to teach kids but in terms of jobs (in England) I am pretty much high and dry. I have taught in a international secondary school (both upper and lower schools). It was difficult, but not unbearable.

I have plenty of questions, such as:

1) What are the requirements?
2) What are the costs involved?
3) What funding is available?
4) How long does it take (still one year if I do computing)?
5) When should I start applying?
6)


Many thanks for an any time you can give... it is much appreciated!
shuwaz Avatar
5y, 8m agoPosted 5 years, 8 months ago
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1 Like #1
'I dont really want to teach kids'


This statement tells me you shouldn't bother applying. You have to love the job and want to teach to be able to do it in my opinion. I know you say your high and dry when it comes to jobs, but you shouldn't go for something if you don't want to do it, teaching is difficult at the best of times, many I know love the job but still find it difficult. I have been a learning mentor ( one to one tuition for sixth form) and I honestly think you couldn't do the job if you didn't have the passion for doing it and the drive to help the children succeed. With your degree I am sure there are plenty of other avenues that you could explore.

Sorry I can't give you any specific information about the application route, I think you have missed the chance to apply this year but I could be wrong. You may also like to consider a GTP, I am not sure if you know about that but it may be worth a google to find out some more information.


Edited By: asayer on Mar 13, 2011 17:59
#2
I agree with the previous poster about the fact that you have to be passionate about teaching. By not wanting to teach kids, I assume you mean not wanting to teach primary or secondary age. In that case, you might be better off doing PTTLS, CTLLS or DTLLS (google for more info), cheaper than a PGCE and you teach 'adults'.
HTH
#3
babimama09
I agree with the previous poster about the fact that you have to be passionate about teaching. By not wanting to teach kids, I assume you mean not wanting to teach primary or secondary age. In that case, you might be better off doing PTTLS, CTLLS or DTLLS (google for more info), cheaper than a PGCE and you teach 'adults'.
HTH


That should be helpful information for the OP. I wasn't sure about college or adult teaching guidelines/courses so didn't want to post anything about it. That was running through my mind though, with regards to the comment about not teaching kids.
#4
asayer
'I dont really want to teach kids'


This statement tells me you shouldn't bother applying. You have to love the job and want to teach to be able to do it in my opinion. I know you say your high and dry when it comes to jobs, but you shouldn't go for something if you don't want to do it, teaching is difficult at the best of times, many I know love the job but still find it difficult. I have been a learning mentor ( one to one tuition for sixth form) and I honestly think you couldn't do the job if you didn't have the passion for doing it and the drive to help the children succeed. With your degree I am sure there are plenty of other avenues that you could explore.

Sorry I can't give you any specific information about the application route, I think you have missed the chance to apply this year but I could be wrong. You may also like to consider a GTP, I am not sure if you know about that but it may be worth a google to find out some more information.




GTP sounds farmiliar.

I did teach both upper and lower school kids abroad. I think because the standard of the school was so low (average of 25+ children per class, 15 to 20 computers max, [most out of date, unable to load common software applications and network software very poor], head of dept/head master/employer not much help, etc, etc) I got put off. When the conditions were right I really enjoyed teaching the kids and was easily able to develope a rapport with them. I'm not sure if I wouldnt enjoying teaching in a school if the conditions were right?

I have worked as an IT trainer, teaching adults and taught English grammar to mature students... Those I really enjoyed. I wanted to continue with being an English grammar tutor (hence the CELTA) but its still very difficult to get a job. I have been unemployed for a while now and really want to get away from claiming benefits. :(
#5
babimama09
I agree with the previous poster about the fact that you have to be passionate about teaching. By not wanting to teach kids, I assume you mean not wanting to teach primary or secondary age. In that case, you might be better off doing PTTLS, CTLLS or DTLLS (google for more info), cheaper than a PGCE and you teach 'adults'.
HTH


I was wanting to return abroad but being married with two children (and already having moved six times in five years) its just feels too hard to mess my family around and setup a home yet again.

I am definately passionate about teaching and come to think of it, the lower school kids were much more enjoyable to teach.
#6
shuwaz
asayer
'I dont really want to teach kids'


This statement tells me you shouldn't bother applying. You have to love the job and want to teach to be able to do it in my opinion. I know you say your high and dry when it comes to jobs, but you shouldn't go for something if you don't want to do it, teaching is difficult at the best of times, many I know love the job but still find it difficult. I have been a learning mentor ( one to one tuition for sixth form) and I honestly think you couldn't do the job if you didn't have the passion for doing it and the drive to help the children succeed. With your degree I am sure there are plenty of other avenues that you could explore.

Sorry I can't give you any specific information about the application route, I think you have missed the chance to apply this year but I could be wrong. You may also like to consider a GTP, I am not sure if you know about that but it may be worth a google to find out some more information.




GTP sounds farmiliar.

I did teach both upper and lower school kids abroad. I think because the standard of the school was so low (average of 25+ children per class, 15 to 20 computers max, [most out of date, unable to load common software applications and network software very poor], head of dept/head master/employer not much help, etc, etc) I got put off. When the conditions were right I really enjoyed teaching the kids and was easily able to develope a rapport with them. I'm not sure if I wouldnt enjoying teaching in a school if the conditions were right?

I have worked as an IT trainer, teaching adults and taught English grammar to mature students... Those I really enjoyed. I wanted to continue with being an English grammar tutor (hence the CELTA) but its still very difficult to get a job. I have been unemployed for a while now and really want to get away from claiming benefits. :(



Those conditions sound very familiar, unless you get a good grammar school, or a private school it will be very likely that you will come across those conditions again and again unfortunately. I would pursue the adult teaching line of work or even the GTP as I mentioned earlier. GTP are hard to get as you usually have to know the school well to be offered a place doing the course. Lots of people I know have been TA's or Learning mentors and then gone on to do the GTP so they have built up a relationship with the school.

I know you will be quizzed hard about your passion for the job and teaching if you apply for a PGCE and reach the interview stage. Some one I know sat on the panel for quite a while ( primary) and said they frowned upon anyone who didn't seem to enthusiastic about the job. You have to be realistic about the path you take, because it would not be worth you doing a PGCE and then one or two years down the line regretting it.

Experience in an English school would be good, I always recommend it to anyone. Drop into your local school and see if they can let you sit in on some classes? You may have to have a CRB check done, but it could be worth it so you experience what the UK school system works like compared to the international schools you have worked at.

Edited By: asayer on Mar 13, 2011 18:25: update
#7
I was thinking of doing that as a back up because there is a lot of teaching jobs and i cant get a job in it but after i had two relatives who done that, but dropped early as it was too hard for them, i decided not to, best of luck to you

Edited By: MR1123 on Mar 13, 2011 18:20
#8
If you do think about Fe I have completed the ptlls and the ctlls, I'm currently on the final year of the dtlls.

I did it oddly though, as if you have enough teaching hours you can just do the diploma (dtlls) at my college (where I also work) it takes 2 years going 4 hours per week, pretty intense whilst working also, but definitely manageable. It costs 750 pounds per year, there used to be a grant available, but I believe they have cut that though.

If you did the ptlls (no teaching hours required) you could look at the protocol national website as they are a large teaching agency.

If you want any more info then let me know.

Of course it all could be no use to you whatsoever....... :)
#9
My sister did a PGCE last year, and you really have to be passionate about it to do well. It was VERY hard work, and involved quite a bit of travelling to get to placements- early starts and late evenings once she'd got home and done all her planning and coursework. It is also very competitive to get onto a PGCE these days, although you seem to have good experience already which should put you in good stead.

I will also say that, depending on where you are and what you specialise in, even when you have got your PGCE you are not guaranteed a job in any way. She regularly applied for positions with 75+ applicants, and applications are very involved. So, all I'm trying to say is, make sure your are dedicated if you do one of these courses because it is a lot of hard slog. She loves it, so it's been worthwhile for her.
#10
OK so taking in all thats been said so far I think the bottom line is:

1) I dont want to teach kids so the PGCE is not an option for me;
2) I have never heard of the CTLLS or DTLLS but they sound very appealing;
3) I have very limited finances so I could only do something that is v.low cost or has funding/a grant.
4) Time is short!
#11
shuwaz
OK so taking in all thats been said so far I think the bottom line is:

1) I dont want to teach kids so the PGCE is not an option for me;
2) I have never heard of the CTLLS or DTLLS but they sound very appealing;
3) I have very limited finances so I could only do something that is v.low cost or has funding/a grant.
4) Time is short!


Good summary - GTP could be good, it is a paid position even though pay is low as you would just be starting out. Maybe some googling could help you in the right direction as I am now out of information!

Good Luck!!!
#12
Have a look on your local college's website to see if they do initial teacher training.

I believe the ifl suggests ctlls as a minimum, that took me 20 weeks, but you did need teaching hours. With one of those qualifications and your experience you should have no trouble getting some hours.

The pay is a fair bit less than primary/secondary though
#13
studentessa
My sister did a PGCE last year, and you really have to be passionate about it to do well. It was VERY hard work, and involved quite a bit of travelling to get to placements- early starts and late evenings once she'd got home and done all her planning and coursework. It is also very competitive to get onto a PGCE these days, although you seem to have good experience already which should put you in good stead.

I will also say that, depending on where you are and what you specialise in, even when you have got your PGCE you are not guaranteed a job in any way. She regularly applied for positions with 75+ applicants, and applications are very involved. So, all I'm trying to say is, make sure your are dedicated if you do one of these courses because it is a lot of hard slog. She loves it, so it's been worthwhile for her.


Yeah, thanks for that. I did a CELTA in one month and its insanely intensive. Most friends who did both said the single month of the CELTA was more intense than a month on the PGCE. Furthermore I was travelling around 3hrs a day (there and back), compared to the other 9/10 students who were travelling 10 - 15mins so I had even less time to do my lessons.

It was actually really good fun now that I look back on it... just the thrill of having a deadline and the pressure of knowing you have to succeed (in something you can).

Edited By: shuwaz on Mar 13, 2011 18:41: spelling - doh!
#14
But you only did one month on the CELTA. Try repeating that month for nine months in a row and you have a PGCE. I loved doing mine though. Did it in primary education but have ended up teaching in FE. Work in FE is really drying up as government keeps cutting funding. Most staff we take on now are sessional, not contracted and this is the way that fe is going. Best bet might be to try and get some sessional teaching work in an fe college. You might then get to do the settle free or at least at reduced cost. You need to teach a certain number of hours to pass the course anyway so may as well try and get paid for them
#15
What do you teach stewby? Even though you had a pgce did you have to do any of the Fe ones?
#16
stewby
But you only did one month on the CELTA. Try repeating that month for nine months in a row and you have a PGCE. I loved doing mine though. Did it in primary education but have ended up teaching in FE. Work in FE is really drying up as government keeps cutting funding. Most staff we take on now are sessional, not contracted and this is the way that fe is going. Best bet might be to try and get some sessional teaching work in an fe college. You might then get to do the settle free or at least at reduced cost. You need to teach a certain number of hours to pass the course anyway so may as well try and get paid for them


Yes but the point is, I understand the level of intensity involved in a PGCE and know I could handle it. The CELTA was about English grammar and the only problems I had were due to my lack of background education in English grammar (dont even have a GCSE in English, yet other people on the course had English degrees, masters and silimar) I didnt struggle with the course, the travelling was the only thing that hindered my progress/overall result. If I were to do a PGCE it would be in computing... and that is my forte.


Edited By: shuwaz on Mar 13, 2011 19:20
#17
sancho1983
What do you teach stewby? Even though you had a pgce did you have to do any of the Fe ones?


I teach functional skills (until this year wasteaching key skills) as well as some managing money units on btec entry level quals. I also carry out irlen syndrome screening and assess for exam access arrangements so all in all a nice varied job. Had to do a level 5 subject specialism in adult numeracy, but after a pgce that was a doodle. In the process of claiming qtls through the ifl but after they whacked up their membership fees I can't see them lasting. What do you teach?
#18
shuwaz
stewby
But you only did one month on the CELTA. Try repeating that month for nine months in a row and you have a PGCE. I loved doing mine though. Did it in primary education but have ended up teaching in FE. Work in FE is really drying up as government keeps cutting funding. Most staff we take on now are sessional, not contracted and this is the way that fe is going. Best bet might be to try and get some sessional teaching work in an fe college. You might then get to do the settle free or at least at reduced cost. You need to teach a certain number of hours to pass the course anyway so may as well try and get paid for them




Yes but the point is, I understand the level of intensity involved in a PGCE and know I could handle it. The CELTA was about English grammar and the only problems I had were due to my lack of background education in English grammar (dont even have a GCSE in English, yet other people on the course had English degrees, masters and silimar) I didnt struggle with the course, the travelling was the only thing that hindered my progress/overall result. If I were to do a PGCE it would be in computing... and that is my forte.



Good grasp of English grammar will make you stand out well I would say. There are a lot of teachers who lack this type of knowledge. With computing being your subject I would do a pgce in 11-19 age group. This will give you qualified teacher status for school teaching but will also keep fe and adult ed. open to you.


Edited By: stewby on Mar 13, 2011 19:27
#19
stewby
sancho1983
What do you teach stewby? Even though you had a pgce did you have to do any of the Fe ones?


I teach functional skills (until this year wasteaching key skills) as well as some managing money units on btec entry level quals. I also carry out irlen syndrome screening and assess for exam access arrangements so all in all a nice varied job. Had to do a level 5 subject specialism in adult numeracy, but after a pgce that was a doodle. In the process of claiming qtls through the ifl but after they whacked up their membership fees I can't see them lasting. What do you teach?


I teach entry qualifications to students with learning difficulties, along with functional skills IT. Pretty similar to you.

I'm currently doing a research paper on integration of sldd students into mainstream qualifications, I may sling a couple of surveys your way if you wouldn't mind. Presume you have an sldd provision if you taught entry level?
#20
Yep we have quite a large sldd provision. Pm a questionnaire no problem sounds an interesting piece of research.

sancho1983
stewby
sancho1983
What do you teach stewby? Even though you had a pgce did you have to do any of the Fe ones?


I teach functional skills (until this year wasteaching key skills) as well as some managing money units on btec entry level quals. I also carry out irlen syndrome screening and assess for exam access arrangements so all in all a nice varied job. Had to do a level 5 subject specialism in adult numeracy, but after a pgce that was a doodle. In the process of claiming qtls through the ifl but after they whacked up their membership fees I can't see them lasting. What do you teach?


I teach entry qualifications to students with learning difficulties, along with functional skills IT. Pretty similar to you.

I'm currently doing a research paper on integration of sldd students into mainstream qualifications, I may sling a couple of surveys your way if you wouldn't mind. Presume you have an sldd provision if you taught entry level?
#21
Thanks, have PMd you, sorry to thread hijack op

Edited By: sancho1983 on Mar 13, 2011 20:00
#22
1) requirement will be a degree in related subject
2) not sure on costs, but I know a lot of the bursaries have been cut this year
3) funding - the flat rate bursary has been removed. In demand subjects get a larger bursary now, over subscribed subjects get a lesser bursary or no bursary. I have no idea what computing falls into
4) one year normally
5) would think you are too late for starting this September. When I applied closing date was md December
#23
First off, if you dont want to teach kids.. Don't be a **** and apply for it..
ALL Universities have slashed all their places for PGCE by a MINIMUM of 35%
You might be depriving someone of a place they really want.

The GTP is an in service qualification for secondary ending with QTS

HOWEVER.. as an addition and an exception to the above you CAN do a General PGCE (its being pushed for FE teachers to now be qualified with QTLS)

Edited By: Jetpac on Mar 13, 2011 21:32: spelling
#24
Jetpac
First off, if you dont want to teach kids.. Don't be a **** and apply for it..
ALL Universities have slashed all their places for PGCE by a MINIMUM of 35%
You might be depriving someone of a place they really want.

The GTP is an in service qualification for secondary ending with QTS

HOWEVER.. as an addition and an exception to the above you CAN do a General PGCE (its being pushed for FE teachers to now be qualified with QTLS)


I need to look into this further.

Doubt I am going to pursue a PGCE. Probably go into the GTP, CTLLS or DTLLS (once I have researched them properly.
#25
stewby
1) requirement will be a degree in related subject
2) not sure on costs, but I know a lot of the bursaries have been cut this year
3) funding - the flat rate bursary has been removed. In demand subjects get a larger bursary now, over subscribed subjects get a lesser bursary or no bursary. I have no idea what computing falls into
4) one year normally
5) would think you are too late for starting this September. When I applied closing date was md December


Thanks for that Stewby.
#26
asayer
shuwaz
OK so taking in all thats been said so far I think the bottom line is:

1) I dont want to teach kids so the PGCE is not an option for me;
2) I have never heard of the CTLLS or DTLLS but they sound very appealing;
3) I have very limited finances so I could only do something that is v.low cost or has funding/a grant.
4) Time is short!


Good summary - GTP could be good, it is a paid position even though pay is low as you would just be starting out. Maybe some googling could help you in the right direction as I am now out of information!

Good Luck!!!


Could you give me anymore information on GTP (e.g. a good website)? If it pays considerably low is it possibly something that I could still claim some minimal benefits for (e.g. a portion of JSA to boost the gross salary)?
#27
I thought gtp was still for teaching in schools?

There is also a post graduate dettls course as my sister is doing it at derby uni this year. Full time course with bursary. Fees were £3200 I think. Bursary depends on the subject you are qualifying to teach

Edited By: stewby on Mar 13, 2011 22:10
#28
stewby
I thought gtp was still for teaching in schools?

There is also a post graduate dettls course as my sister is doing it at derby uni this year. Full time course with bursary. Fees were £3200 I think. Bursary depends on the subject you are qualifying to teach


Could you find out more about that and let me know?
#29
The GTP IS Teaching in schools.

PGCE is a recognised international qualification with several weeks University contact time ending up with QTLS.

GTP is only recognised in the UK and is school based with little university contact, most bits and pieces done with an in school mentor. (Chucked in at the deep end if you will) There are few places and it is aimed at those with teaching experience or experience in relevant industry. Aimed at secondary schools.

GTP is NOT an option for you

Your only real options are CTLLS, DTLLS or a GENERAL PGCE (for FE)

shuwaz
If it pays considerably low is it possibly something that I could still claim some minimal benefits for (e.g. a portion of JSA to boost the gross salary)?


You will get "paid" little, and JSA is not applicable. You are studying and training.

My honest thoughts (as a school teacher) are that you walk away right now. You seem to know very little about teaching and by your own admission you are only considering it as an option because "jobs are high and dry".

Questions for you:

1) Do you really think there are more jobs going in teaching?
2) Do you really think you would make a good teacher based on your attitude?
(teaching requires commitment and a genuine desire to teach otherwise you are a waste of time to colleagues who will be picking up your mess and your students who will learn nothing)

Teaching is not an easy way out.
Teaching requires a special type of person (regardless of the age group)
Teaching requires an awful lot of time "above and beyond" your paid hours.

Personally I don't stop, i find it very hard to switch off, i am constantly seeing things or thinking about things i can be doing in class or adding to the curriculum.
I was in London this weekend having a very nice trip with a friend... I was taking photos constantly, a great deal of them are stuff i want to use in class, or can be used by other departments.

It is not a kop out, which to be honest it seems like you think it is from what i've read.


Edited By: Jetpac on Mar 13, 2011 22:36
#30
stewby
This will give you qualified teacher status for school teaching but will also keep fe and adult ed. open to you.


Not necessary any more. Have a read of the Wolf Report (out in the last few weeks)
Moving away from QTS and towards QTLS which allows a backwards transition from FE to secondary should you wish if you have a general PGCE.
#31
Forgot about that, remember my sister mentioning it a couple of weeks ago. Interesting, although not sure how many school heads would be interested in taking on fe tutors with no experience of school teaching

Jetpac
stewby
This will give you qualified teacher status for school teaching but will also keep fe and adult ed. open to you.


Not necessary any more. Have a read of the Wolf Report (out in the last few weeks)
Moving away from QTS and towards QTLS which allows a backwards transition from FE to secondary should you wish if you have a general PGCE.
#32
Jetpac
The GTP IS Teaching in schools.

PGCE is a recognised international qualification with several weeks University contact time ending up with QTLS.

GTP is only recognised in the UK and is school based with little university contact, most bits and pieces done with an in school mentor. (Chucked in at the deep end if you will) There are few places and it is aimed at those with teaching experience or experience in relevant industry. Aimed at secondary schools.

GTP is NOT an option for you

Your only real options are CTLLS, DTLLS or a GENERAL PGCE (for FE)

shuwaz
If it pays considerably low is it possibly something that I could still claim some minimal benefits for (e.g. a portion of JSA to boost the gross salary)?


You will get "paid" little, and JSA is not applicable. You are studying and training.

My honest thoughts (as a school teacher) are that you walk away right now. You seem to know very little about teaching and by your own admission you are only considering it as an option because "jobs are high and dry".

Questions for you:

1) Do you really think there are more jobs going in teaching?
2) Do you really think you would make a good teacher based on your attitude?
(teaching requires commitment and a genuine desire to teach otherwise you are a waste of time to colleagues who will be picking up your mess and your students who will learn nothing)

Teaching is not an easy way out.
Teaching requires a special type of person (regardless of the age group)
Teaching requires an awful lot of time "above and beyond" your paid hours.

Personally I don't stop, i find it very hard to switch off, i am constantly seeing things or thinking about things i can be doing in class or adding to the curriculum.
I was in London this weekend having a very nice trip with a friend... I was taking photos constantly, a great deal of them are stuff i want to use in class, or can be used by other departments.

It is not a kop out, which to be honest it seems like you think it is from what i've read.



Thanks for taking the time to comment Jetpac.

I would like to teach but only to adults. I have always really enjoyed teaching to adults and do have the passion and drive that the role requires.

1) Do you really think there are more jobs going in teaching?
2) Do you really think you would make a good teacher based on your attitude?
(teaching requires commitment and a genuine desire to teach otherwise you are a waste of time to colleagues who will be picking up your mess and your students who will learn nothing)

Teaching is not an easy way out.
Teaching requires a special type of person (regardless of the age group)
Teaching requires an awful lot of time "above and beyond" your paid hours.


1) Well for teaching English abroad (i.e. from having the CELTA), yes. I can get a job right now, I just dont want to uproot my whole family again for the seventh time in five years.
2) I know I was a good teacher (even my employer wanted me to stay on). Of course, my attitude may seem incorrect but thats only because I was teaching children and thats not what I want to do.
I'm not sure what your understanding about my attitude (based upon what you have read) but perhaps you misunderstand me? I really do want to teach and enjoy it. I am a very good teacher when teaching adults. Therefore surely if thats the audience I focus upon I will continue to do so.

It is not a kop out, which to be honest it seems like you think it is from what i've read.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. I want to stick to teaching adults because thats what I enjoy and am passionate about. I'm not going to bother with anything which would lead to teaching children (such as a PGCE) as I know now thats not what I want to do. Perhaps the PGCE was a kop out but that was just an initial thought which I am clear about (not doing) now.



Edited By: shuwaz on Mar 13, 2011 22:59
#33
Gonna end it there everyone. Thanks a lot for all the comments and advice. It has been a real eye-opener. :)

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