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Digital Foundry: In Theory, Could Sony Release A PS5 In 2018?

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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-could-sony-release-ps5-in-2018-in-theory Must be slow news week for Digital Foundry because such a hypothetical makes very little sense. A PS5 i… Read More
neilanderton1 Avatar
1m, 1w agoPosted 1 month, 1 week ago
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-could-sony-release-ps5-in-2018-in-theory

Must be slow news week for Digital Foundry because such a hypothetical makes very little sense.

A PS5 in 2018 would be pointless because it would still be stuck on 16nm process, meaning Sony would be limited to hell and back with regards to what they could package together for $399 / £350.

7nm process is what is needed for a proper next gen jump and 2019 (at the earliest) is the targeted date for that process. Although it is very likely it will be 2020 when we see PS5. With 7nm, Sony would be able to do an eight core Ryzen (high clocked) paired with 24GB - 32GB of HBM3 or GDDR6 (@ 1TB/s) and upwards of a 16TF GPU (perhaps more if that new chiplets design comes about by that time). Still being stuck on 16nm we're talking about an 8TF system with maybe 16GB RAM and a six core or less Ryzen (low clocked). It's just not worth it.

Especially when Cerny himself has stated that he views next gen jumps in consoles needs to be significant. That 16nm setup I just detailed would not be that. It's would be a Scorpio+ (same way that Scorpio is a PS4 Pro+).

Now, there is 12nm and 10nm process nodes, but all the big component players are choosing to skip those processes for the far more substantial 7nm (same way the big players skipped 20nm for 16nm).

They also misunderstand Cerny's statement with regards to an 8TF console is needed for 4K. Cerny gave that number to show what is needed to run PS4 games in 4K native across the board, not that he was hinting towards such a system being made. Devs would not be able to push for next gen rendering techniques AND 4K with just 8TF. It would literally just be PS4 spec games in 4K. That ain't gonna sell PS5 hardware.
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neilanderton1 Avatar
1m, 1w agoPosted 1 month, 1 week ago
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1 Like #1
No.
1 Like #2
Yes
#3
dunno
No.
Heh. For a tech focused site like Digital Foundry you would have thought they'd scrap any idea for such an article after coming to the conclusion of how meagre an offering a PS5 in 2018 would be, combined with what the system architect himself has stated on numerous occasions.

Edited By: neilanderton1 on May 14, 2017 13:39
1 Like #4
No. 2019 is a realistic date. Pro came out 3 years after the original and was ideal for a mid gen upgrade, the next model will come out 3 years after that to match previous generations.

The only way they'll bring out a model in 2018 is if Scorpio becomes a serious competitor for putting Xbox back at the top, which it won't sadly.
#5
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?

can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?

I want to play games in 4k
#6
7nm in 2018 is unlikely
#7
Can't wait to see what the solution would be regarding storage, compared to Ps3, the ps4 game data is huge. Ps5 would have to wait for technology and not the other way round.
#8
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?

can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?

I want to play games in 4k


The specs for Scorpio look great and will be more powerful than the pro. Native 4k but price and game support will be key for most.
#9
Care to reword the opening post in English?
#10
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
Yes. It will be much better than the pro when it comes to power
#11
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
Wrong approach (imo).
It is all about the games decide what you want to play and then go Pro or Scorpio, or PC.

Plus wait for E3 (next month) for new games & Scorpio pricing to be announced, all eyes will be on Microsoft.
#12
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?

can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?

I want to play games in 4k


Get a PC
#13
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
What kind of games?

If multiplats, then Scorpio will more often than not pull in higher resolutions than Pro. But don't think all devs will opt for 4K native. As a id software dev commented, they'd much prefer to do some checkerboard solution and then use the freed up resources for other stuff. And he won't be alone in that.

It's like those hoping for 60FPS games across the board when PS5 and the next Xbox uses Ryzen CPU. It's entirely up to the devs, and most devs typically opt for extra bells and whistles over a true solution (especially since most users won't be able to tell the difference between 4K checkerboards and native).

But yeah, Scorpio is your choice for higher resolutions when it comes to consoles.

However, if you want 4K no exception along with 60FPS then PC is the only way to go.

Edited By: neilanderton1 on May 14, 2017 15:36
#14
Even if 7nm happens in 2019, there is no way Sony would be able to have a production line for 7nm chips in 2019..

Besides I am not sure there really is a big market for a product like the Scorpio, there is a market but a big one? anyone wanting 4K bleeding edge graphics is most likely going to be a PC gamer, there is also to much focus on graphics.. most AAA titles are a load of rubbish now because they spend too much time making it shiny instead of focusing on the story and gameplay.
#15
HasanG
7nm in 2018 is unlikely
It's not just unlikely but impossible. 2018 is risk production for 7nm. It won't be anywhere near mature enough for a console maker to produce it in vast quantities.
#16
neilanderton1
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
What kind of games?
If multiplats, then Scorpio will more often than not pull in higher resolutions than Pro. But don't think all devs will opt for 4K native. As a id software dev commented, they'd much prefer to do some checkerboard solution and then use the freed up resources for other stuff. And he won't be alone in that.
It's like those hoping for 60FPS games across the board when PS5 and the next Xbox uses Ryzen CPU. It's entirely up to the devs, and most devs typically opt for extra bells and whistles over a true solution (especially since most users won't be able to tell the difference between 4K checkerboards and native).
But yeah, Scorpio is your choice for higher resolutions when it comes to consoles.
However, if you want 4K no exception along with 60FPS then PC is the only way to go.
Mostly play fifa, just want to play fifa on console in the best res and performance possible.
FIFA is awful on PC
#17
Jack-L92
neilanderton1
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
What kind of games?
If multiplats, then Scorpio will more often than not pull in higher resolutions than Pro. But don't think all devs will opt for 4K native. As a id software dev commented, they'd much prefer to do some checkerboard solution and then use the freed up resources for other stuff. And he won't be alone in that.
It's like those hoping for 60FPS games across the board when PS5 and the next Xbox uses Ryzen CPU. It's entirely up to the devs, and most devs typically opt for extra bells and whistles over a true solution (especially since most users won't be able to tell the difference between 4K checkerboards and native).
But yeah, Scorpio is your choice for higher resolutions when it comes to consoles.
However, if you want 4K no exception along with 60FPS then PC is the only way to go.
Mostly play fifa, just want to play fifa on console in the best res and performance possible.
FIFA is awful on PC
Well, if it is just FIFA the PS4 Pro already does it in 4K native and 60FPS.
#18
Jack-L92
neilanderton1
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
What kind of games?
If multiplats, then Scorpio will more often than not pull in higher resolutions than Pro. But don't think all devs will opt for 4K native. As a id software dev commented, they'd much prefer to do some checkerboard solution and then use the freed up resources for other stuff. And he won't be alone in that.
It's like those hoping for 60FPS games across the board when PS5 and the next Xbox uses Ryzen CPU. It's entirely up to the devs, and most devs typically opt for extra bells and whistles over a true solution (especially since most users won't be able to tell the difference between 4K checkerboards and native).
But yeah, Scorpio is your choice for higher resolutions when it comes to consoles.
However, if you want 4K no exception along with 60FPS then PC is the only way to go.
Mostly play fifa, just want to play fifa on console in the best res and performance possible.
FIFA is awful on PC

Wait for the E3 show in four weeks where you will see the Scorpio in action, it's easily the most powerful console so expect it to give the best experience on multi format titles.
Scorpio has an Ultra HD Blu-ray player.



Edited By: shasnir on May 15, 2017 11:23: Hd
#19
Jack-L92
neilanderton1
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
What kind of games?
If multiplats, then Scorpio will more often than not pull in higher resolutions than Pro. But don't think all devs will opt for 4K native. As a id software dev commented, they'd much prefer to do some checkerboard solution and then use the freed up resources for other stuff. And he won't be alone in that.
It's like those hoping for 60FPS games across the board when PS5 and the next Xbox uses Ryzen CPU. It's entirely up to the devs, and most devs typically opt for extra bells and whistles over a true solution (especially since most users won't be able to tell the difference between 4K checkerboards and native).
But yeah, Scorpio is your choice for higher resolutions when it comes to consoles.
However, if you want 4K no exception along with 60FPS then PC is the only way to go.
Mostly play fifa, just want to play fifa on console in the best res and performance possible.
FIFA is awful on PC

I am sorry I do not mean to belittle your request, but seriously you want the best console money can buy for a 4k version of Fifa!
1 Like #20
dtovey89
Care to reword the opening post in English?

Processors aren't getting small enough fast enough for a PS5 to be worthwhile right now. A quote from Mark Cerny, the bloke who was the system architect for PlayStation 4, is being misconstrued.

There you go, two sentences was all you need :)
2 Likes #21
dtovey89
Care to reword the opening post in English?
moneysavingkitten
Processors aren't getting small enough fast enough for a PS5 to be worthwhile right now. A quote from Mark Cerny, the bloke who was the system architect for PlayStation 4, is being misconstrued.
There you go, two sentences was all you need :)

PS4 (still) > Xbox One

^ I think that covers it.
1 Like #22
fanpages
dtovey89
Care to reword the opening post in English?
moneysavingkitten
Processors aren't getting small enough fast enough for a PS5 to be worthwhile right now. A quote from Mark Cerny, the bloke who was the system architect for PlayStation 4, is being misconstrued.
There you go, two sentences was all you need :)
PS4 (still) > Xbox One
^ I think that covers it.

X)
#23
Jack-L92
Is it looking like the Scorpio wil be better than the ps4 pro or not?
can a non-fanboy fill me in lol?
I want to play games in 4k
Scorpio will be more powerful than ps5 nevermind pro haha
#24
I'm calling either 2019/2020
1 Like #25
clonereeco
I'm calling either 2019/2020

Have you got a time phone?
#26
When I can play Zelda games on a Sony xboxstation I'll buy one.

:3
#27
Yes they could release something of some kind but it would be any better than the current max display standard of native 4K. Project Scorpio will release that standard in November. Why wait?
1 Like #28
clonereeco
I'm calling either 2019/2020
https://comedycentral.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/south-park/clip-thumbnails/season-10/1013/south-park-s10e13c05-crank-prank-time-phone-16x9.jpg?width=100%25&height=100%25
#29
moneysavingkitten
dtovey89
Care to reword the opening post in English?
Processors aren't getting small enough fast enough for a PS5 to be worthwhile right now. A quote from Mark Cerny, the bloke who was the system architect for PlayStation 4, is being misconstrued.
There you go, two sentences was all you need :)

Cheers
#30
neilanderton1
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-could-sony-release-ps5-in-2018-in-theory
Must be slow news week for Digital Foundry because such a hypothetical makes very little sense.
A PS5 in 2018 would be pointless because it would still be stuck on 16nm process, meaning Sony would be limited to hell and back with regards to what they could package together for $399 / £350.
7nm process is what is needed for a proper next gen jump and 2019 (at the earliest) is the targeted date for that process. Although it is very likely it will be 2020 when we see PS5. With 7nm, Sony would be able to do an eight core Ryzen (high clocked) paired with 24GB - 32GB of HBM3 or GDDR6 (@ 1TB/s) and upwards of a 16TF GPU (perhaps more if that new chiplets design comes about by that time). Still being stuck on 16nm we're talking about an 8TF system with maybe 16GB RAM and a six core or less Ryzen (low clocked). It's just not worth it.
Especially when Cerny himself has stated that he views next gen jumps in consoles needs to be significant. That 16nm setup I just detailed would not be that. It's would be a Scorpio+ (same way that Scorpio is a PS4 Pro+).
Now, there is 12nm and 10nm process nodes, but all the big component players are choosing to skip those processes for the far more substantial 7nm (same way the big players skipped 20nm for 16nm).
They also misunderstand Cerny's statement with regards to an 8TF console is needed for 4K. Cerny gave that number to show what is needed to run PS4 games in 4K native across the board, not that he was hinting towards such a system being made. Devs would not be able to push for next gen rendering techniques AND 4K with just 8TF. It would literally just be PS4 spec games in 4K. That ain't gonna sell PS5 hardware.

Sony themselves said this gen would be shorter than usual before the PS4 even released. Longer gens make gamers bored with outdated tech and it the PS3/360 gen was so long that sales started decreasing even with large userbase. Its happening. End of 2018 is when PS5 releases whether people like it or not.

Edited By: darkspace100 on May 15, 2017 09:40
#31
clonereeco
I'm calling either 2019/2020


Well, it will be one of those two, yes. Not a moment before.
#32
neilanderton1
clonereeco
I'm calling either 2019/2020
Well, it will be one of those two, yes. Not a moment before.

It won't be that long. I have just said to you that Sony themselves said that don't expect PS4 to last as long as PS3. PS4 released in 2013 so by 2018 that would be 5 years.

Edited By: darkspace100 on May 15, 2017 11:15
1 Like #33
power is kind of irrelevant in this debate. I have a one s and a pro. I'm a potential Scorpio consumer but what Microsoft have to do at e3 is give a decent chunk of exclusive games coming to xbox this year, it's not even close compared to Sony. software will shift hardware.
#34
benrobertsno1
power is kind of irrelevant in this debate. I have a one s and a pro. I'm a potential Scorpio consumer but what Microsoft have to do at e3 is give a decent chunk of exclusive games coming to xbox this year, it's not even close compared to Sony. software will shift hardware.
It sort of goes hand in hand. It's not one or the other. Or, as Sony's own Yoshida puts it:

"If they still feel that we need more machine power - 'we want to realise this and that and that, but we cannot do it with the PS4' - there's a good reason to have the PS5 so developers can create their vision," said Yoshida.

The question then becomes to what extent do you spec a machine to enable devs to "realise this and that," and then it becomes obvious that a 2018 spec is nowhere near enough of a bump when a huge boost is waiting in the wings with a 2019 spec.

Not to mention that Sony has repeated they want to stay the course of their usual PS lifecycles with PS4, which until PS3 had been six years. Albeit now with a nice neat punctuation point between entries (the Pro iterations).
#35
neilanderton1
benrobertsno1
power is kind of irrelevant in this debate. I have a one s and a pro. I'm a potential Scorpio consumer but what Microsoft have to do at e3 is give a decent chunk of exclusive games coming to xbox this year, it's not even close compared to Sony. software will shift hardware.
It sort of goes hand in hand. It's not one or the other. Or, as Sony's own Yoshida puts it:
"If they still feel that we need more machine power - 'we want to realise this and that and that, but we cannot do it with the PS4' - there's a good reason to have the PS5 so developers can create their vision," said Yoshida.
The question then becomes to what extent do you spec a machine to enable devs to "realise this and that," and then it becomes obvious that a 2018 spec is nowhere near enough of a bump when a huge boost is waiting in the wings with a 2019 spec.
Not to mention that Sony has repeated they want to stay the course of their usual PS lifecycles with PS4, which until PS3 had been six years. Albeit now with a nice neat punctuation point between entries (the Pro iterations).

I have already discredited you with this claim so why do you continue to ignore me and keep spreading false information?
1 Like #36
moneysavingkitten
dtovey89
Care to reword the opening post in English?
Processors aren't getting small enough fast enough for a PS5 to be worthwhile right now. A quote from Mark Cerny, the bloke who was the system architect for PlayStation 4, is being misconstrued.
There you go, two sentences was all you need :)
Heh, yeah. excuse my technobabble. You summed it up perfectly. 2019 or later for PS5. No sooner.
#37
Great debate here. Essentially the best comment here has been about software shifting the hardware. I would be happier if they concentrated on this first. At the moment, I have a pro and xb1s, I would say the jump from ps4 to ps4pro is a larger gap than a theoretical ps5. A ps5 would only serve a very niche market. However Sony can sometimes not GAF and just release it without market need/demand i.e. PsVR
#38
Any iteration after ps4pro would only be a direct attempt to beat the superior scorpio. A ps5 however would probably break the ecosystem i terms of software, whereas scorpio will continue in the same ecosystem as other xb1 hardware/software. The market cannot sustain a ps5 in 2018.
1 Like #39
imranio
Great debate here. Essentially the best comment here has been about software shifting the hardware. I would be happier if they concentrated on this first. At the moment, I have a pro and xb1s, I would say the jump from ps4 to ps4pro is a larger gap than a theoretical ps5. A ps5 would only serve a very niche market. However Sony can sometimes not GAF and just release it without market need/demand i.e. PsVR
A PS5 would not be a direct attempt to beat Scorpio, because Scorpio (like Pro) is of this generation of videogame software development. A PS5 would kickstart a new gen, in which case the ball would then be thrown to MS to respond.

And of course Scorpio will continue the same ecosystem as XB1. Pro does the same with PS4. Scorpio is not a new gen. It is a mid-cycle upgrade.

As for breaking ecosystem, there's little reason to think PS5 won't be backwards compatible with PS4. Hell, the Pro itself has to on some level emulate PS4 games, because the GPU is radically different.

Also, the jump from Pro to PS5 spec on a 7nm process would be a flipping massive jump over what PS4 Pro is on PS4. Ps4 Pro is still stuck on crappy Jaguar CPU. The move to Ryzen alone is a generation forward in processing power. We're talking far greater than Jaguar was over CELL... indeed, we're talking about as big a jump as from the PS2 CPU to CELL. Yes, Jaguar is that crappy and Ryzen is that much more powerful.

That's just the CPU. Pro also only offers 10% more RAM and just 25% more bandwidth than PS4. GDDR6 or HBM3 will allow at least 300 to 400% more RAM and a huge 400% boost to bandwidth. And we haven't even touched on the GPU.

So, I'm not sure why you say the jump from PS4 to Pro would be larger than a jump from Pro to PS5. It simply would not be true.
#40
darkspace100
neilanderton1
benrobertsno1
power is kind of irrelevant in this debate. I have a one s and a pro. I'm a potential Scorpio consumer but what Microsoft have to do at e3 is give a decent chunk of exclusive games coming to xbox this year, it's not even close compared to Sony. software will shift hardware.
It sort of goes hand in hand. It's not one or the other. Or, as Sony's own Yoshida puts it:
"If they still feel that we need more machine power - 'we want to realise this and that and that, but we cannot do it with the PS4' - there's a good reason to have the PS5 so developers can create their vision," said Yoshida.
The question then becomes to what extent do you spec a machine to enable devs to "realise this and that," and then it becomes obvious that a 2018 spec is nowhere near enough of a bump when a huge boost is waiting in the wings with a 2019 spec.
Not to mention that Sony has repeated they want to stay the course of their usual PS lifecycles with PS4, which until PS3 had been six years. Albeit now with a nice neat punctuation point between entries (the Pro iterations).
I have already discredited you with this claim so why do you continue to ignore me and keep spreading false information?

lol, keep trying buddy X)

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