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does a young child count as a customer ?

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Hi all just wondering does a child count as a customer ? thing is i was hoping to go to my local toysrus in the next fe days to try and a toy but they said it is limited to 1 per customer, now if it …
Jimston Avatar
7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
Hi all just wondering does a child count as a customer ? thing is i was hoping to go to my local toysrus in the next fe days to try and a toy but they said it is limited to 1 per customer, now if it is me and my 2 yr old does he count as a customer ? if i give him the £5 can he buy one then 1 buy one seperately. Thing is i need 2 as other one will be for my little girl who will be at school.

any help much appreciated.
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Jimston Avatar
7y, 4m agoPosted 7 years, 4 months ago
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#1
Buy one, take it to your car, go back into the shop and buy another from a different till.
simples.
#2
Babbabooey
Buy one, take it to your car, go back into the shop and buy another from a different till.
simples.


+1.

Would otherwise depend how old your boy is if he is 12+ I guess there won't be a problem.
#3
Babbabooey
Buy one, take it to your car, go back into the shop and buy another from a different till.
simples.


Thats what i would do, and have done in the past when i the same situation
#4
I would say legally yes....an 10 year old should not get served for alcohol...and I can remember when I was about 14 'helping' my dad put the lottery on, he chose the number (what I said but he marked them) he handed the paper to the sales person and gave me the £1 for me to give her it......she wouldnt accept it off me even though she had seen my dad give me it...I have to give it back to him then in turn he had to give it to her :?

I guess the question is what age could a child be reasonably considered as a customer....

think the different till suggestion is best but regardless its an interesting question :)
#5
Im guessing this is something to do with go go hamsters?
#6
At age 2 - i'd say no.
#7
I'd hide the second one in the store and then go back for it! lol
#8
id say no too :( but its worth ago i suppose.
#9
Ask someone else in the store if they'll get one for you. If you explain and they're not after one, why wouldn't they help you out? Go on consecquetive days with other parents/ friends and all buy the max each time? I don't think that a 2yr old will be able to qualify!
[mod]#10
Does he have a cheque book in his name?
#11
Why not I say. Give him a wallet with some cash in!!
[mod]#12
To be a customer you need to be a person or a business that is purchasing a commodity or service.
#13
magicjay1986
To be a customer you need to be a person or a business that is purchasing a commodity or service.


is a 2 year old not a person that could purchase a commodity?
#14
You cannot hold a minor to a contractual obligation and since a sale is basically a financial agreement in return for goods.... I'd say the lil one isn't a customer.

But heck go grab someone and say please!
[mod]#15
lil_tiger
is a 2 year old not a person that could purchase a commodity?


As CoM states, a 2 year old probably isnt able to form a contract due to intention etc...

Plus, you cannot be a customer on behalf of someone as you would still be the customer. It would be you that is a party to the contract.

A little more complex (which I am sure you understand but for the benefit of the OP)...A and B make a contract that they would pay for C's wedding. If A dies and does not pay, C cannot sue A's estate but B could.
#16
ClarityofMind
You cannot hold a minor to a contractual obligation and since a sale is basically a financial agreement in return for goods.... I'd say the lil one isn't a customer.

But heck go grab someone and say please!


but that would mean no person under the age of 18 could buy anything....:? (although I understand the contract link)
#17
magicjay1986
As CoM states, a 2 year old probably isnt able to form a contract due to intention etc...

Plus, you cannot be a customer on behalf of someone as you would still be the customer. It would be you that is a party to the contract.

A little more complex...A and B make a contract that they would pay for C's wedding. If A dies and does not pay, C cannot sue A's estate but B could.


yeah I understand what you're saying.....but you gotta admit it is a pretty unclear area :) if the 2 year old has pocket money and actually wants the item.....not blatantly buying for someone else
#18
If a fire drill was in operation during your visit all members of the public who were not employees would be classified as customers.

If you asked if your child could use a toilet during your visit you would be directed to the "Customer Toilets".

If your two year old received gift vouchers or cash for a birthday anniversary gift & visited the Store he/she would be considered a Customer. If during that time a product was purchased (a dress-up costume, for instance) for your 2 year old & it was later discovered not to be suitable (it was too big, or small, or whatever) you (with, or without your child) would return to the store for a refund or exchange.

At that time, if you speak to the Customer Services representative you are taking over the role of the Customer for the duration of the associated transaction. At no time during that discussion would the Staff at the store seek the opinion of the original Customer... and I bet if asked they would say that you were the Customer!

Weird how the term is used but there is no definition of such displayed in-store.

Here is a similar problem...

I may choose to park my car within an enclosed area that has a sign stating "For the use of Boots Customers only" (replace "Boots" for the name of any Store with dedicated parking) or similar wording.

I may go in & browse but not find a product that I intended to buy at that time. If I leave the Store without purchasing anything does that mean I am no longer a Customer of Boots... and hence may receive a parking ticket for using a space clearly marked for somebody else?

No... anyone entering the store without the intention of purchasing a product would be classified as a Customer.

Your small child entering Toys R Us has the intention of purchasing a product. Hence he/she is a Customer.

Arguably, if you have purchased previously from the same Store then you are, by definition, a "Customer of that Store".

The sign does not say "For the of Current Customers of Boots".

There is no distinction.

I would say that if your child is armed with the means of payment to purchase an item then he/she is a Customer.

It is not the Store's rights to enquire how the funds became the property of your child... you would not expect to be quizzed how you earned the money you are using to buy something... so why should your child be looked at any differently. If they are treating the child differently then you could argue that there is discrimination based on age.

Have fun tomorrow...

BFN,

fp.

Edited By: fanpages on Jul 13, 2016 16:05: .
#19
magicjay1986
As CoM states, a 2 year old probably isnt able to form a contract due to intention etc...

Plus, you cannot be a customer on behalf of someone as you would still be the customer. It would be you that is a party to the contract.

A little more complex (which I am sure you understand but for the benefit of the OP)...A and B make a contract that they would pay for C's wedding. If A dies and does not pay, C cannot sue A's estate but B could.


If I take something back to a shop for one of my Grandparents (although this would be tricky now as they have all been dead for many years, but for the purposes of this discussion we'll assume at least one is alive) because they could not return to the shop for whatever reason as long as I have the receipt for the item then I can exchange for a different product.

If I have the original form of payment (we'll assume it was not by debit or credit card, or even cheque, but on this occasion, cash), then I could also obtain a refund (if I returned within a "reasonable" period; 28 or 30 days, or whatever the law says at present is "reasonable").

I do not think representing someone's interests means you automatically become a party to the contract.

If I were a Solicitor representing a Client purchasing a property I would not be a party to the contract, for instance.

BFN,

fp.
#20
dcx_badass
I'd say 8 or 9, once they can que up on their own whilst you were say stood at the side, I don't think a 2 year old could buy it on their own.


My kids could all buy ice cream from a van parked attending to Customers from aged 2 or 3 :)

BFN,

fp.
[mod]#21
lil_tiger
yeah I understand what you're saying.....but you gotta admit it is a pretty unclear area :) if the 2 year old has pocket money and actually wants the item.....not blatantly buying for someone else


Amended my post above as I know you will already know my example.

Can you really be in a position to know what a child wants at the age of 2? It is easier to know what a child needs.

They wouldnt be able to form a contract so I dont think that a child is able to be a customer.
[mod]#22
fanpages
If I take something back to a shop for one of my Grandparents (although this would be tricky now as they have all been dead for many years, but for the purposes of this discussion we'll assume at least one is alive) because they could not return to the shop for whatever reason as long as I have the receipt for the item then I can exchange for a different product.

If I have the original form of payment (we'll assume it was not by debit or credit card, or even cheque, but on this occasion, cash), then I could also obtain a refund (if I returned within a "reasonable" period; 28 or 30 days, or whatever the law says at present is "reasonable").

I do not think representing someone's interests means you automatically become a party to the contract.

If I were a Solicitor representing a Client purchasing a property I would not be a party to the contract, for instance.

BFN,

fp.


Exactly. The point you make has worked against itself. You wouldnt be the customer or a party to the original contract. You would be the agent. A solicitor representing a client would not make them a party, it would make them their agent. The same goes if you were returning something to a shop on behalf of someone. You are their agent and not a customer of a shop.
#23
well i can always remember taking my son /s when they got birthday money to spend and they had they money themselves in their wallet things you know the kids ones and they would not let me help them as it is their money so i would say yes they are a customer as long as they are making a purchase with their own money then why not?
[mod]#24
wulshaz
well i can always remember taking my son /s when they got birthday money to spend and they had they money themselves in their wallet things you know the kids ones and they would not let me help them as it is their money so i would say yes they are a customer as long as they are making a purchase with their own money then why not?


...2 years old though?

We need to bear in mind that in this scenario the OP is trying to avoid shop policy and taking advantage of a 2 year old. The shop could EASILY refuse to sell this to the OP. Easily.
#25
magicjay1986
Amended my post above as I know you will already know my example.

Can you really be in a position to know what a child wants at the age of 2? It is easier to know what a child needs.

They wouldnt be able to form a contract so I dont think that a child is able to be a customer.


As soon as a child can form an opinion based on the information available then they can have a desire to want something. They also may not have the ability to speak to communicate their desire either.

Kids learn to crawl & walk when they want objects. They vocalise an opinion to need (want very strongly) as soon as they watch the advertisements between Kids TV programmes.

In bygone days I could go to a local shop to buy something with my pocket money without the presence of an adult, or supervision of anybody else.

In that context I was the Customer.

BFN,

fp.
#26
magicjay1986
Exactly. The point you make has worked against itself. You wouldnt be the customer or a party to the original contract. You would be the agent. A solicitor representing a client would not make them a party, it would make them their agent. The same goes if you were returning something to a shop on behalf of someone. You are their agent and not a customer of a shop.


...but if I never mentioned that I was returning an item on behalf of somebody else I would be treated as the original Customer even though I was never a party to the contract of sale.

BFN,

fp.

[EDIT]: Further point... if I gave my money to somebody to purchase something from a Store, & they came back with an incorrect product, but I then chose to return it, who would be the agent & who would be the Customer?

D'oh!
#27
yes he is.
[mod]#28
fanpages
As soon as a child can form an opinion based on the information available then they can have a desire to want something. They also may not have the ability to speak to communicate their desire either.

Kids learn to crawl & walk when they want objects. They vocalise an opinion to need (want very strongly) as soon as they watch the advertisements between Kids TV programmes.

In bygone days I could go to a local shop to buy something with my pocket money without the presence of an adult, or supervision of anybody else.

In that context I was the Customer.

BFN,

fp.


Children at 2 years old do NOT have adequate mens rea. I can guarantee you that.
#29
magicjay1986
Children at 2 years old do NOT have adequate mens rea. I can guarantee you that.


Pardon.
[mod]#30
fanpages
...but if I never mentioned that I was returning an item on behalf of somebody else I would be treated as the original Customer even though I was never a party to the contract of sale.

BFN,

fp.


...it isnt up to the shop to confirm or consider whether you are a party to the contract. You know, in your own mind, that you are an agent for the original customer.

If you are not acting on authority then it is theft, fraud and deception. Or any combination of the three.
#31
magicjay1986
Amended my post above as I know you will already know my example.

Can you really be in a position to know what a child wants at the age of 2? It is easier to know what a child needs.

They wouldnt be able to form a contract so I dont think that a child is able to be a customer.


lol :) I dont think you're understanding that I agree with you....its unlikely that a child that young has the mental capacity for the intention required to make a purchase (without having direction from another person).....My point is that although from a logical POV the law is very vague on this area.....and personally I think it would be interesting to find out what the store would say.

After all if it is an item without an age restriction on it then wouldnt refusal show age discrimination? :whistling:

I know Im being daft now....just thinking its a (rare) interesting question that has been asked :)
#32
magicjay1986
...it isnt up to the shop to confirm or consider whether you are a party to the contract. You know, in your own mind, that you are an agent for the original customer.

If you are not acting on authority then it is theft, fraud and deception. Or any combination of the three.


See my [EDIT] above...
---
[EDIT]: Further point... if I gave my money to somebody to purchase something from a Store, & they came back with an incorrect product, but I then chose to return it, who would be the agent & who would be the Customer?
---

BFN,

fp.
[mod]#33
lil_tiger
lol :) I dont think you're understanding that I agree with you....its unlikely that a child that young has the mental capacity for the intention required to make a purchase (without having direction from another person).....My point is that although from a logical POV the law is very vague on this area.....and personally I think it would be interesting to find out what the store would say.

After all if it is an item without an age restriction on it then wouldnt refusal show age discrimination? :whistling:

I know Im being daft now....just thinking its a (rare) interesting question that has been asked :)


No you are not being daft. As you say, it is interesting.

It wouldnt show age descrimination (necessarily) as chances are they could say that it is an invitation to treat and not an offer to sale and therefore could refuse to sell it to anyone.
#34
magicjay1986
Children at 2 years old do NOT have adequate mens rea. I can guarantee you that.


fanpages
Pardon.


dcx_badass
It's a law term, they were trying to sound smart by using it, but they used it in completely the wrong context.


Thanks :)

Children at any age can have adequate resources... just like they can have savings accounts, spending money, money presented as gifts, or inheritance funds.

BFN,

fp.
[mod]#35
fanpages
See my [EDIT] above...
---
[EDIT]: Further point... if I gave my money to somebody to purchase something from a Store, & they came back with an incorrect product, but I then chose to return it, who would be the agent & who would be the Customer?
---

BFN,

fp.


It would (I think) remain that the person you give your consideration to is your agent. You would be making the contract as an agent (potentially) on the part of (as opposed to on behalf of).
[mod]#36
dcx_badass
It's a law term, they were trying to sound smart by using it, but they used it in completely the wrong context.


I am smart.

Ok, an "intention".
#37
magicjay1986
It would (I think) remain that the person that you give your consideration to is your agent. You would be making the contract as an agent (potentially) on behalf of (as opposed to on the part of).


Is that a quote from one of Shakespeare's plays? ;)

Whichever way around the agent/customer relationship was you can probably relate that connection to a purchase made by a parent for a child, or by a child as directed by a parent (whether present or not).

As long as the person returning the item is complying with the Store's returns policy then a refund (or exchange) will be given.

I would doubt a handwritten sign in Toys R Us stating "One per Customer" is likely to be the Act of Goods & Services definition of "Customer".

BFN,

fp.
[mod]#38
dcx_badass
Ok.... Buying from a shop would fall under civil law, mens rea is criminal law, bit of a big mistake to make....


I am well aware of mens rea and actus reus.

For a criminal lawyer it would be a big mistake to make. I dont practice in criminal as "crime doesnt pay".
#39
magicjay1986
I am smart.

Ok, an "intention".


Is that the legal definition of "smart" or your own? ;)

BFN,

fp.
#40
magicjay1986
No you are not being daft. As you say, it is interesting.

It wouldnt show age descrimination (necessarily) as chances are they could say that it is an invitation to treat and not an offer to sale and therefore could refuse to sell it to anyone.

hmmm but not if they allow the mum to but an identical item first...and cant think of a good enough excuse to break the invitation to treat :p
dcx_badass
Ok.... Buying from a shop would fall under civil law, mens rea is criminal law, bit of a big mistake to make....

mens rea can be applied to almost any offence, translated as 'the guilty mind' and meaning 'the intention'....doesnt practically every offence have intent? Thats what I was told anyways...In fact I first learnt of it (and also studied shop sales extensively) in contract law......:?

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