Does your notebook contain a Geforce 8400 / 8600? (Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, and others) - HotUKDeals
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Does your notebook contain a Geforce 8400 / 8600? (Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, and others)

ollyk Avatar
8y, 4m agoPosted 8 years, 4 months ago
After purchasing a Dell Vostro 1400 as advertised on this site, I felt I should perhaps pass on this news as I know a lot of Dell laptops, especially from the Vostro range appear here.
Basically it seems Nvidea have been producing faulty Geforce 8400 / 8600 mobile chipsets (read NOT a faulty batch but ALL GPU's effected!) which is leading to unprecedented high failure rates. Apparently the chip die is not adequately bonded to the packaging, which in turn means that heating / cooling cycles will continuously weaken the thing until it fails completely. Basically what this means to you and I is this - the chipset is prone to overheating and will likely fail with little or no warning.

Dell has released a new BIOS to try to alleviate this issue - by increasing the frequency of the fan (but only running it at half speed) they hope to stabilize the system temperature and prolong the life of the chipset. However, some people suggest this is an attempt to delay the onset of the fault until after the warranty has expired.

So where does this leave us then? If our laptops die outside the warranty due to poor workmanship and a known issue (although only known after manufacture) then will we have a case to fight? Fit for purpose / reasonable life span etc. or are we all going to be fobbed off by Dell and Nvidea and be left with useless frizbees at the end of all this?
I guess time will tell but in the meantime this could make for an interesting discussion!
Dells blog with that Bios patch can be found at: http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2008/07/25/nvidia-gpu-update-for-dell-laptop-owners.aspx

If this has already been posted I apologize although I did search!
Other Links From GeForce:
ollyk Avatar
8y, 4m agoPosted 8 years, 4 months ago
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#1
This is not just the 8400/8600 - a huge number of mobile dedicated graphics are affected.
#2
Last time Dell had an issue like this, it was the GX280 / GX270 capacitor issue. The basics of that issue is that some dolt decided to fiddle the alter the way that the electrolyte solution in the capacitors was comprised, which some believe as being a deliberate act to induce failures shortly outside of warranty expiration times. Others believe it was intended purely as a cost-cutting measure.

Anyway, Dell, faced with a massive legal problem, did a fairly reasonable thing - they extended the warranty on all GX270 and GX280 systems to run until January of this year (the systems were released around 2004), but only if the caps had blown or swollen. With any luck, they should do the same again now.

Legally, you stand in a fairly strong position. You are protected against manufacturing defects for six years under TS regulations, so when your G84 or G86 based system starts to fail, even if you're outside of your warranty period, you can call up for a replacement motherboard.

Don't expect Dell to admit to it being a known issue, though. Officially, Dell has no known issues. It's policy.
#3
I refuse to update my BIOS, no way am I having the fan on 90% of the time
#4
Thanks for this - we have two XPS M1330's in the house, both with these cards. I agree with Robotochan though - really don't want to have the fan on for long periods. I can be noisy... Darn...
#5
well apparently.. all nvidia laptop chipsets are affected.. !!from the 7000 series onwards
#6
dxx

Don't expect Dell to admit to it being a known issue, though. Officially, Dell has no known issues. It's policy.


Have they not just done that by releasing a bios update?
#7
unileeds
well apparently.. all nvidia laptop chipsets are affected.. !!from the 7000 series onwards


Sources please, there has been no suggestion in the technical media that it is anything other than the 8400/8600 chips. Even 8800s are supposedly fine.

This is not an unwarranted rumour, and I think it's important to keep to the facts, or at least to be able to cite reputable sources, when discussing this.
#8
wild_quinine
Sources please, there has been no suggestion in the technical media that it is anything other than the 8400/8600 chips. Even 8800s are supposedly fine.

This is not an unwarranted rumour, and I think it's important to keep to the facts, or at least to be able to cite reputable sources, when discussing this.


http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/31/figuring-out-which-nvidia-gpus-are-defective-its-a-lot/

google it as well. plenty others agree!! : ).. ive got a ancient 5200go so i should be OK.. if no gameplay is Ok.. lol
#9
I had a Dell M1330 for a while and it was running excessively hot, with the fans on all the time. It was a refurb from the Outlet too. Hmm.
#10
For anyone wanting to monitor temperatures there is an interesting guide here..
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=81690
#11
[SIZE="3"]So, are you saying it's not worth buying a Laptop, like the ; HP Pavilion DV6907 with a Nvidia G8400 Graphics card ?[/SIZE]

Newbie to here, and Newbie to laptops.
Thanks
#12
SqueakyDust;2666914
[SIZE=3]So, are you saying it's not worth buying a Laptop, like the ; HP Pavilion DV6907 with a Nvidia G8400 Graphics card ?[/SIZE]

Newbie to here, and Newbie to laptops.
Thanks


Personally I wouldn't until there is some confirmation either way that the problem exists, and if so is rectified. This is a time bomb type problem, where one day (especially when the laptop gets older and less able to cool itself) the laptop will stop working. Odds are that this will be when your warranty has finished.
It's a similar thing which has been seen in Xbox 360's where excessive heat has warped the motherboard. In that case Microsoft re designed the internals and extended the warranty, but only after public humiliation.
#13
Thanks MoneySavingG.
We'll hold off for now then.
#14
MoneySavingG
Personally I wouldn't until there is some confirmation either way that the problem exists, and if so is rectified.... Microsoft re designed the internals and extended the warranty, but only after public humiliation.




There definitely is a problem, what we're not hearing is how big, and what nVidia and partners intend to do about it.

Apart from that, this is exactly the advice I would offer.

Or more simply still: wait and see how it plays out.

The first thing they've done after admitting there is a problem is go quiet. That's what has people speculating about the size of the problem, more than anything.
#15
Ohh, interesting read. My XPS M1330 has developed a fault which I have reported to Dell, but I've yet to hear back from them, and I think it's video card or display adaptor related. The display goes all blocky and pink/gree/blue then the computer freezes and either simply dies or blue screens. There are display problems on start up too, and it frequently fails to restart at all. I wonder if this is the cause of my probs?
#16
Yep, it's my geforce 8400 which is the problem. Also it seems to be a similar chipset which caused my previous laptop to die one week out of warranty. I phone HP, apparently it's covered under their limited extended warranty so they're coming to pick it up and repair it - woohoo, I'll have one for work and one for home :)
#18
I swear my sperm count is well and truly hammered because of this.
#19


I wonder if their current repair procedure involves replacing the duff chip-set with a new duff chipset and BIOS update?
#20
ollyk
I wonder if their current repair procedure involves replacing the duff chip-set with a new duff chipset and BIOS update?


Unfortunately I don't think that there are ANY non-duff 8400 or 8600s. It seems like the question is WHEN, not IF.
#21
Any updates on this problem?

seems theyre still producing laptops with these chips
#22
My laptop just died. And I own a vostro 1500....

I've owned it for 1.5 years.

Acording to dell these models weren't supposed to be affected, but here I am. I've found some other few cases on the internet about users of this particular model having the issue.

I will call dell tomorrow to see what they have to tell me. However, I'm almost sure they will be bad news.

If you have any news about the issue with this specific vostro model, would be really thankful if you let me know.

Paul
#23
Hi all,

From this post on the Dell Blog it says Dell are extending warranties to deal with this issue.

Read more here: http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2008/09/12/nvidia-gpu-update-limited-warranty-enhancement-details.aspx

I have a Vostro 1700 which seems to have strange squares appear round graphics and window frames. If I go to Windows basic the squares stop around frames but it's still rubbish when I play games.

I'm hoping the 1700 comes under the 1710 for warranty extension.

Fingers crossed.
#24
My Vostro 1710 went down with video issues a few weeks ago. Strange issue, it was. All GPU rendered content displayed on the laptop's screen was fine, but GPU rendered stuff, like 3D graphics and video, displayed on an external screen had this weird inteference on it. The inteference only showed up in video or 3D graphics rendered by the GPU. Video rendered as 2D content worked perfectly. So, Youtube would be fine, Media Player not.

Dell sorted it out the next day, so it was cool though.
1 Like #25
dxx
My Vostro 1710 went down with video issues a few weeks ago. Strange issue, it was. All GPU rendered content displayed on the laptop's screen was fine, but GPU rendered stuff, like 3D graphics and video, displayed on an external screen had this weird inteference on it. The inteference only showed up in video or 3D graphics rendered by the GPU. Video rendered as 2D content worked perfectly. So, Youtube would be fine, Media Player not.

Dell sorted it out the next day, so it was cool though.


Hi dxx - that sounds promising.

And it sounds exactly the same as what I have - YouTube is fine whereas graphics are rubbish.

Mind if I ask what type of warranty you had? Did they come to you and do it there and then?
1 Like #26
bodderz
Hi dxx - that sounds promising.

And it sounds exactly the same as what I have - YouTube is fine whereas graphics are rubbish.

Mind if I ask what type of warranty you had? Did they come to you and do it there and then?


It's a 4yr Next Business Day warranty on this one, so I'm covered for all these sorts of failures. Yourself, assuming you're out of warranty, you should still be okay, although you might be up for a bit of a fight. The 8x00 problem is caused by an inherent manufacturing fault (read the info at the top of the thread, and do a google around for 8600 and 8400 problems - you should find loads more info by looking at Charie Demeroejwerjoijothingiefaceer of The Inq too, so add that to the google search list), and the trusty Sale Of Goods act protects you against them for up to six years.

Read up on your rights at http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html . The two bits that stand out as most important are

Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

Q1. What is an inherent fault?

A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:
• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly
• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.
The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.



Probably the best course of action from here is to gather up as much info as you can on the fault, look up an actual copy of the SOGA online and read through it so you know the exact clauses that are relevant to your case, take a load of notes and URLs and stick it all into a text file, then get in touch with Dell via the Tech Support online chat. From there, if Dell just say "Okay, cool, we'll send an engineer out tomorrow", you're sorted. If not, and they put up resistance, you'll be fully armed with all of your rights, and links so you can show them your rights and prove to them your fault, and you can keep a nice, civilised, and highly organised (and fully recorded) dialogue with them until they give in and send an engieer out. Let me know how you get on, btw.
#27
So, after speaking to Dell, they would not replace my graphics card nor extend my warranty as they have done on some models. I tried to argue using the Sales of Goods Act but they still wouldn't accept it (perhaps it was down to my technique). The reason being I have a 1700 which is one of the machines which is apparently unaffected. They say this is because the card is in fact removeable whereas the 1710/1510 etc the card is soldered to the motherboard which is the cause of the problem.

So to fix my card (next day) they asked for £196 :w00t: After picking myself up off the floor I politely declined.

However, after having done some research on the internet about trying to find alternative cards (which really don't exist as Dell have designed their own) I came across this thread http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t47982.html

It would seem that if you try to connect your laptop to your TV it can fry your card - mine has the same awful checkboard-like squares on graphic images.

So don't try to hook it up to the TV otherwise it might destroy your card.

Anyhoo, dxx, thanks for the info. I think I'll try a desktop next time, or at least something that I can upgrade stuff should they go wrong.
#28
operalover
My laptop just died. And I own a vostro 1500....

I've owned it for 1.5 years.

Acording to dell these models weren't supposed to be affected, but here I am. I've found some other few cases on the internet about users of this particular model having the issue.

I will call dell tomorrow to see what they have to tell me. However, I'm almost sure they will be bad news.

If you have any news about the issue with this specific vostro model, would be really thankful if you let me know.

Paul


Any result from dell?

Reading this thread has raised my concerns. I have a vostro 1500 and noticed a slight sluggish graphics performance eventhough not much has been done to the system (i.e. new program install/hardware change etc..). I would want to call dell but assuming they wont do much about a possible fault with the GPU until an actual fault has occured. I would be really gutted if something happens after my warranty expires!! I stil have one year left!

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