e2save cashbacks & Royal Mail - another scam? Get your money back! - HotUKDeals
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e2save cashbacks & Royal Mail - another scam? Get your money back!

Newbold Avatar
8y, 5m agoPosted 8 years, 5 months ago
See the bit at the end about how to claim your money back from Royal Mail.

There have been several postings showing that members are having difficulties with Royal Mail Recorded Delivery and e2save.

Basically, the way it works is that e2save don't provide a signature for a bulk delivery of Recorded Delivery items. That means that several hundred items in just one day will never show up on the RM tracking page as delivered, and if you, as a customer, try to get a signature, there won't be one.

All of which means that there's yet another excuse for e2save not to pay out on a cashback claim. You say you sent it, they say they didn't get it and ask you for the Recorded Delivery number. You give them it, but there's no point because the RM website shows "Your item with reference DB123456789GB is currently progressing through our network."

Result? No proof of delivery (and RM won't have a signature if you ask them to provide it) and e2save can just refuse to pay the cashback. What a wheeze!

This is absolutely out of line with RM assurances that Recorded Delivery (actually called Recorded Signed For!) items will always get a signature:

"We make sure we get a signature from whoever receives the item, but bear in mind that this may not be the person named on the address label. If there's nobody available to sign for the item and the item is not collected or redelivery rearranged within seven calendar days, we return your mail free, with a note saying why we can't deliver it. On the rare occasions that we dont get a signature for any other reason, we'll refund your money."

Note - there should always be a signature, and if there isn't you're entitled to your money back.

Two points here. Firstly, this is a serious issue for anyone with an e2save cashback claim, because it enables them to pretend they haven't received it (this has happened to me three times in four claims). Secondly, you're paying RM for a service they just aren't delivering on.

Check your e2save or any other Recorded Delivery numbers on the Royal Mail website (http://track.royalmail.com/portal/rm/track?catId=22700601&gear=authentication) and if they don't show up as having been delivered, contact RM at [email protected] to find out what's going on and to claim your Recorded Delivery fee back.
Newbold Avatar
8y, 5m agoPosted 8 years, 5 months ago
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Comments/page:
#1
never had a problem so far with 5 cheques!
#2
i always use Special Next Day Delivery exactly for this reason alone

if RM messes around, I am covered by a £2500 insurance
#3
nuabdi
i always use Special Next Day Delivery exactly for this reason alone

if RM messes around, I am covered by a £2500 insurance


only if you take out the consequential loss insurance otherwise your are covered for the value of a few sheets of paper.

Having said that, never had a problem using RMSD with e2save/OSPS etc - always paid out.

Best to use RMSD for the extra security. RMSD is dealt with very differently to DecDev by RM.

EliTom
#4
Right but RMSD is automatically covered by £500 insurance. thats huge enogh to cover cashback deal up to £34 per mo for 12 months contract

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?mediaId=22700558&catId=400026#13300263

If you use Special Delivery™ Next Day then your mail is automatically covered for up to £500 compensation. If you’re sending an item that’s more valuable then we advise that you increase your cover to £1,000 or £2,500, in the unlikely event that it is lost or damaged in transit. For a small additional fee you can insure your item for up to £2,500. Find out how little additional compensation costs.

i think our cashback contracts documents can prove that "the value of a few sheets of paper" is more than its intrinsic value
#5
nuabdi
Right but RMSD is automatically covered by £500 insurance. thats huge enogh to cover cashback deal up to £34 per mo for 12 months contract

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?mediaId=22700558&catId=400026#13300263

If you use Special Delivery™ Next Day then your mail is automatically covered for up to £500 compensation. If you’re sending an item that’s more valuable then we advise that you increase your cover to £1,000 or £2,500, in the unlikely event that it is lost or damaged in transit. For a small additional fee you can insure your item for up to £2,500. Find out how little additional compensation costs.


That £500 covers the physical value of the contents of your package. So in this case you might get 10p if photocopied on good quality paper. :p It doesn't cover you for even one penny for 'consequential loss' - ie the loss you might experience as a consequence of royal mail losing or not delivering the (physically almost valueless) sheets of paper.
banned#6
Got my 2 phones through e2save and had soooo many problems including cashback and charging me for another phone which took 4 months to sort out would never never use again.
#7
http://www.osney.org/po/royalFail.jpg
#8
Royal Mail think nothing of committing fraud on a daily basis - taking money for services (signatue on delivery) that they know they will not be providing in this case.

They also take a complacent "head in the sand" view when repeated losses of items occur within a psotcode area.

One of the dodgiest most arrogant companeis around. At least if they were privatised there'd be a great big watchdog with teeth sitting over them.
#9
Elitom you are right - I used to work for the Royal Mail enquiries team. You have to prove the value of the contents by a reciept or show the cost of a replacement upto the value of the £500. The value of a few sheets of paper in a cashback claim is negliable - It is the consequential cover you need to buy for the "consequence" of the items not being delivered.

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content3?catId=400026&mediaId=22700549

Consequential loss

Sometimes the damage, delay or loss of an item can lead to greater loss than the market value of the item itself. Delayed legal documents or damaged photographic transparencies are two examples. If you are sending such an item, you can opt for Consequential Loss cover which will entitle you to extra compensation should something go wrong

You can apply for consequential loss compensation if you're using Special Delivery™ for any UK destination, except the Channel Islands, Isle of Man or HM Forces addresses.

Just ask for consequential loss when you send your item by Special Delivery™ Next Day. Compensation claims can be made through our Customer Services within 14 days of posting. Remember to include the receipt for purchase when you file your claim.
#10
Flake99
That £500 covers the physical value of the contents of your package. So in this case you might get 10p if photocopied on good quality paper. :p It doesn't cover you for even one penny for 'consequential loss' - ie the loss you might experience as a consequence of royal mail losing or not delivering the (physically almost valueless) sheets of paper.


An easy way round that is when you contact them compensation to get coversation, tell them you had an item worth 'x' amount, which is equivalent to the value of the cashback
#11
robot1000
An easy way round that is when you contact them compensation to get coversation, tell them you had an item worth 'x' amount, which is equivalent to the value of the cashback


Which would, of course be fraudulent, and as they investigate all claims you'd receive nothing (except perhaps for a hefty fine!). :thumbsup:
#12
rivergold
Royal Mail think nothing of committing fraud on a daily basis - taking money for services (signatue on delivery) that they know they will not be providing in this case.

They also take a complacent "head in the sand" view when repeated losses of items occur within a psotcode area.

One of the dodgiest most arrogant companeis around. At least if they were privatised there'd be a great big watchdog with teeth sitting over them.


If you're having issues personally, drop me a PM with your postcode, name, and some examples. I know people who know people who do take this sort of thing seriously, and who can possibly do something about it.
#13
dxx
If you're having issues personally, drop me a PM with your postcode, name, and some examples. I know people who know people who do take this sort of thing seriously, and who can possibly do something about it.


Or write direct to:

Adam Crozier,
Chief Executive,
Royal Mail Group,
148 Old Street,
London
EC1V 9HQ


You'll find that this issue is already being looked into by the Chief Executive's office. If you write, don't forget to give details of your Recorded Delivery numbers, and to ask for a refund.
#14
The letters WILL be signed for, the problem arises when the postman has to return that delivery card to the office to get scanned in and stored, postmen not handing the cards back in is the biggest problem with recrded deliveryand cards left in pockets or vans leaves no trail for customers to trace!, id recommend you find out which delivery office depot delivers to e2save and ring that office up and ask to speak to the delivery office manager....ask him why the recorded deliveries you send to a recurring address never get signed for, i guarantee this will be taken seriously by the said manager as it will reflect directly on his performance. Also i dont doubt that e2save are loving this to cash in on
#15
kungfu
Also i dont doubt that e2save are loving this to cash in on


Royal Mail 'customer service' told me that where they're delivering several hundred letters in a day, as they apparently are with e2save, it's impracticable to get signatures for all of them, and if the addressee prefers not to sign, they leave them anyway. That's a pretty staggering admission.

Surely the logical approach would be a single signature for a list of RD numbers?

Now why would e2save choose not to provide any signatures? I wonder.............................
#16
Flake99
That £500 covers the physical value of the contents of your package. So in this case you might get 10p if photocopied on good quality paper. :p It doesn't cover you for even one penny for 'consequential loss' - ie the loss you might experience as a consequence of royal mail losing or not delivering the (physically almost valueless) sheets of paper.


I am sorry for being thick.. but given the phrase here:

crd67
Elitom you are right - I used to work for the Royal Mail enquiries team. You have to prove the value of the contents by a reciept or show the cost of a replacement upto the value of the £500. The value of a few sheets of paper in a cashback claim is negliable - It is the consequential cover you need to buy for the "consequence" of the items not being delivered.

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content3?catId=400026&mediaId=22700549

Consequential loss

Sometimes the damage, delay or loss of an item can lead to greater loss than the market value of the item itself. Delayed legal documents or damaged photographic transparencies are two examples. If you are sending such an item, you can opt for Consequential Loss cover which will entitle you to extra compensation should something go wrong

You can apply for consequential loss compensation if you're using Special Delivery™ for any UK destination, except the Channel Islands, Isle of Man or HM Forces addresses.

Just ask for consequential loss when you send your item by Special Delivery™ Next Day. Compensation claims can be made through our Customer Services within 14 days of posting. Remember to include the receipt for purchase when you file your claim.


But what I get from the above quote is that RMSD DOES cover automaticallty what so called "consequential loss" up to £500. but off course if you think the item has "consequential value" of more than that you can OPT to have it extra covered (more than £500) by paying extra premium.
#17
nuabdi
I am sorry for being thick.. but given the phrase here:



But what I get from the above quote is that RMSD DOES cover automaticallty what so called "consequential loss" up to £500. but off course if you think the item has "consequential value" of more than that you can OPT to have it extra covered (more than £500) by paying extra premium.


Extract from RM website:

"If you send an item that could be costly if it is lost, damaged or delayed in transit, then take advantage of our consequential loss cover of up to £10,000. The cover is particularly useful for important documents, such as contracts that could result in financial expense for you or your company if they are lost, or your tax return that may incur an expense if it is not delivered on time."

The position is clear. Unless you take out the extra insurance for consequential loss, any claim will be limited to the lower of £500 or the value of the item, in this case a few bits of paper.

Another extract from the RM website:

"When you use Special Delivery™ Next Day you can claim compensation up to £500 or the value of the item, whichever is the lower."

To have any chance of claiming more than a few pence from RM, you MUST have taken out the separate consequential loss cover, and that will cost just £1.45. Well worth it if you're dealing with e2save, but with that, plus the Special Delivery charge itself, several times over, the attractions of the cashback start to recede.
#18
Consequential loss insurance needed as stated already. I've been banging on about this for the last year!

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/196631/rm-consequential-loss-insurance/
#19
dxx
If you're having issues personally, drop me a PM with your postcode, name, and some examples. I know people who know people who do take this sort of thing seriously, and who can possibly do something about it.


Thanks very much for the offer but I've since moved away from the area (W5). It was a while ago.

But seriously, I know for sure that I lost about 40 items in less than a year that I was actively expecting to receive. God knows how many things I lost that I wasn't expecting. And letters were being delivered to similar sounding roads ... I thought postcodes, not names, were the be-all and end-all!

Still, I got a book of first class stamps when I complained, so that made things better again.

:whistling:

Sorry to whinge and I really do appreciate your kind offer ... just it's too late for me now, I'm just harbouring a grumpy old grudge!
#20
Newbold
Royal Mail 'customer service' told me that where they're delivering several hundred letters in a day, as they apparently are with e2save, it's impracticable to get signatures for all of them, and if the addressee prefers not to sign, they leave them anyway. That's a pretty staggering admission.
.

Perhaps if more and more people started demanding refunds from RM, then the loss of income and the sheer administrative overhead might change their minds ...
#21
rivergold
Perhaps if more and more people started demanding refunds from RM, then the loss of income and the sheer administrative overhead might change their minds ...


Absolutely right, which is why I'm doing exactly that and encouraging others to do the same. The amount of the refund is trifling, but it will cost them far more than that to process each claim, and the result is likely to be a tightening up of the procedures with e2save. So it's win win win all round (exept for RM and those sharks at e2save).

RM are going around charging people £1.06 to receive large letters or cards which have been accidentally understamped by 6p. It's about time they were made to pay up for their mistakes too.
#22
Newbold
Absolutely right, which is why I'm doing exactly that and encouraging others to do the same. The amount of the refund is trifling, but it will cost them far more than that to process each claim, and the result is likely to be a tightening up of the procedures with e2save. So it's win win win all round (exept for RM and those sharks at e2save).

RM are going around charging people £1.06 to receive large letters or cards which have been accidentally understamped by 6p. It's about time they were made to pay up for their mistakes too.


I think it is good to take a stand because in my mind it is crystal clear that they are committing fraud.

Moreover, is it not the case in law that if a party breaches a contract, then other terms within that contract are also rendered void.

Therefore, in breaching their contract by not obtaining a signature, their waiver of consequential loss is unlawful? I'm not a lawyer but I was a computer contractor with a strong eye on legal matters in my own engagements with clietns and agencies.

I think this is relevent because I would be willing to take the risk on consequential loss if I knew that they got individual signatures form e2save. Without this assurance, I would not take the risk and wouold spend the extra to insure it. But because RM are dishonest about what steps they will take to get a signature for my mailing, I would be not insuring for consequential loss based on a misrepresentation by RM, and to my mind that makes them liable, whatever their contract says, because of their breach of contract and trust.

Would be great to get a tesst case on this in the small claims, they need teaching a lesson ...
#23
Two seperate services rivergold, this is talking about recorded delivery, consequential loss is not available on recorded delivery.

If you use consequential loss (with special delivery) then I think they do get a signature where as like newbold says they might not with recorded delivery.

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