Ebay - think I got bidded up - whats your thoughts? Am I still obligated to buy? - HotUKDeals
We use cookie files to improve site functionality and personalisation. By continuing to use HUKD, you accept our cookie and privacy policy.
Get the HUKD app free at Google Play

Search Error

An error occurred when searching, please try again!

Login / Sign UpSubmit

Ebay - think I got bidded up - whats your thoughts? Am I still obligated to buy?

nikkiandmidgets Avatar
8y, 2d agoPosted 8 years, 2 days ago
Won an item on Ebay after highest bidder requested their bid got cancelled 1 hour before end of auction then the previous bidder then went on after this bid got cancelled and placed two bids in the next two minutes which then bumped mine right up to my highest bid amount, then never bid again for last 58 mins of auction. Clicked on the two ids and one that got cancelled has no other bids placed in last 30 days and other has only placed these bids in last 30 days. I hate to feeling I have been artificially bidded against, and probably by the seller or a friend of theirs acct - is there anything I can do? Am I obliged to complete this deal? Seller contacted me after auction ended to ask if I can pay COD as they have probs with their paypal... info on bids to explain better......

My Ebay ID £72.00 01-Dec-08 03:53:09 GMT

Bidder 2 £70.00 07-Dec-08 20:25:00 GMT

Bidder 2 £65.00 07-Dec-08 20:24:42 GMT

Bidder 2 £53.00 02-Dec-08 21:33:41 GMT

Bidder 2 £51.00 02-Dec-08 21:32:39 GMT

Starting Price £50.00 30-Nov-08 21:22:56 GMT

If you and another bidder placed the same bid amount, the earlier bid takes priority.

Bid retraction and cancellation history

Bidder Action / Explanation Date of Bid and Retraction
Bidder 3 Cancelled: £74.00
Explanation:customer contacted about item wishing to cancel bid


As an aside it really bugs me that when someone outbids you, they can cancel their bid and you can technically be the winner again...wish there was an option on accts that if you get outbid you dont want your bid reinstated if another buyer cancels as means technically you have to hold on just incase someone cancels their bid at last possible moment.
Tags:
Other Links From eBay:
nikkiandmidgets Avatar
8y, 2d agoPosted 8 years, 2 days ago
Options

All Comments

(43) Jump to unreadPost a comment
Comments/page:
Page:
#1
The term is shill bidding which is difficult to identify with the anonymous bidding, I've had the same happen numerous times where I'm pushed up to my maximum bid gradually and then the bidder cancels their bid leaving me at the highest bid rather than back to where I started. I don't think there's much you can do, nothing I'm aware of anyway aside from reporting shill bidding which is tricky to prove.

John
#2
Nope u cant do nuffin but everyone does it on ebay if selling most of the time.
banned#3
if they wont accept paypal and you want out theres your get out of jail card
#4
yep theres that what sassie said or try to talk your self out of it perhaps?
#5
i would nt buy item - report to ebay regards shill bidding as john ms says - if you really thik you paid too much dont buy it!!
#6
I know where you are coming from, but at the end of the day you have paid a price you were willing to pay ? Like the poster above though pull out, say COD is no good and it is change in the terms of the auction and you want pay pal protection etc.
#7
Yes it was at my maximum bid, just annoys me that they did this in the last hour. Will try stating has to be paypal as need a courier to collect as its a condenser dryer in paisley, Scotland and I dont drive and awkward for me to get courier to pay, can be done but I hate when bidders bump up like this, especially in last hour.....
#8
They have to take PAYPAL, if not they are breaking EBAY rules. If they do agree to paypal then theres not a lot you can do except to try and get a discount for COD. It happens which is why i do not bid on items until the last minute now
banned#9
im not sure what the thing is if you are aranging a pick up, as yu could pay by paypal and then say you havent received it, which im sure is what the seller is concerned about, was this advertised as a pick up only item?
#10
I do this all the time its great I have anonther account on ebay just for bidding up my own items it is a classsic scam I have made thousands!!:-D
#11
Well you don't have to buy it. What they gonna do, give you a neg? ;-)
#12
You got the item at the price that you were happy with and agreed to pay, what is the problem?
#13
That would really annoy me too, and it does look like an obvious case here. Personally, unless I really wanted the item, I would tell the seller I've changed my mind, then contact ebay and explain your suspicions and ask them to investigate. Also mention what he told you about paypal. If he really does have "probs with paypal", this might also be linked to his dodgy seller status. Or if he doesn't, it just proves he is a dodgy seller if he has to lie about it :) ----- Anyway, if you are not comfortable about it, I wouldn't feel under any pressure to complete. :thumbsup:
banned#14
holly100;3694112
i would nt buy item - report to ebay regards shill bidding as john ms says - if you really thik you paid too much dont buy it!!

winner bid what they were willing to pay so they should be happy and buy the item, regardless of how they won. Refusal will just get you banned eventually.
tigers66;3694164
I know where you are coming from, but at the end of the day you have paid a price you were willing to pay ? Like the poster above though pull out, say COD is no good and it is change in the terms of the auction and you want pay pal protection etc.

spot on! :thumbsup:
adamsxi;3694236
I do this all the time its great I have anonther account on ebay just for bidding up my own items it is a classsic scam I have made thousands!!:-D

Your mother must be so proud! Dont feed this troll.
banned#15
In any case, I didnt think you could cancel bids within 12 hours of auction end time.
#16
you should take up sniping and not bid till the last second.. no chance of all this shill bidding, and you can even get a program to do it for you, but that takes out all the fun.
#17
csiman
In any case, I didnt think you could cancel bids within 12 hours of auction end time.


Bidder Action / Explanation Date of Bid and Retraction
Bidder 3 Cancelled: £74.00
Explanation:customer contacted about item wishing to cancel bid


Was the seller able to 'allow' it or something..? Or did the bidder contact ebay about it? See comment above... :?
banned#18
Liddle ol' me;3694950
Bidder Action / Explanation Date of Bid and Retraction
Bidder 3 Cancelled: £74.00
Explanation:customer contacted about item wishing to cancel bid


Was the seller able to 'allow' it or something..? Or did the bidder contact ebay about it? See comment above... :?

Looks that way according to the rules. This must be fairly new. A great new way to get scammed :x

Timing Matters
[LIST]
[*]Up to twelve hours before the end of the listing: All bids you've placed on that item will be automatically cancelled when you submit the form.
[*]During the last twelve hours of the listing: Your most recent bid will be automatically cancelled, as long as you placed it in the last hour. If you want to cancel a bid you placed more than an hour ago, please ask the seller to cancel your bid. eBay can't cancel your bid for you.
[/LIST]
banned#19
In this instance, I now feel it was a definite scam. Tell the seller you are on to him and have reported him. Then report to ebay here:-

http://pages.****.co.uk/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

replace the **** with ebay
#20
It's annoying but it's only the same as if the seller had set a reserve price, so the one who should be annoyed is ebay as they lost out on a bit of income.

Bidder can cancel at anytime with seller's approval.
#21
There's no way I'd buy the item, just on principle!!

Blatant shill bidding and I would definitely report them for it.

Refuse to buy unless they accept PayPal, then report them for that too.

lol
#22
Shengis
Well you don't have to buy it. What they gonna do, give you a neg? ;-)


Ditto.
One Neg feedback you will get, thats all. Try demanding paypal and if he cannot comply then thats you back out.
#23
pcnutta
Ditto.
One Neg feedback you will get, thats all. Try demanding paypal and if he cannot comply then thats you back out.


Ahem... sellers can't neg buyers anymore :thumbsup:

If the seller refuses to accept PayPal, buyer can back out of sale with no repercussions.
#24
pcnutta;3695326
Ditto.
One Neg feedback you will get, thats all. Try demanding paypal and if he cannot comply then thats you back out.

Can sellers leave negs? Or is it only if the buyer doesnt pay?
#25
pcnutta
Ditto.
One Neg feedback you will get, thats all. Try demanding paypal and if he cannot comply then thats you back out.


Not even that. Shengis' wink was because sellers can't leave neg feedback for buyers any longer ;-)
#26
ChipSticks
Ahem... sellers can't neg buyers anymore :thumbsup:

If the seller refuses to accept PayPal, buyer can back out of sale with no repercussions.


lol, good point. :thumbsup: Finally, there's a good reason for that 'improvement' to eBay.
#27
If the seller refuses to accept paypal, buyer can pull out of sale and will be fine. If seller says ok to paypal and buyer still wants to pull out, in this case I'd say they have an argument for shill bidding, but as the buyer bid an amount they were willing to pay, I'm unsure what ebay would say. if they found in favour of seller, buyer would probably just get a NPB strike on their account.
#28
ohhhhhhhhh i didnt know that!!
Mind you Ive never to tried to give neg feedback lol
#29
How to spot shill bidding...
First of all, you may be wondering how and when you should suspect you're being shilled. For most victims, it is a sneaking suspicion that creeps up on them over the course of the auction, but it doesn't hurt to be proactive and a little paranoid. :)

The following are some warning signs to look for:


The Devoted Bidder.
A bidder bids exclusively or nearly exclusively on one or two sellers' items--yet rarely wins. It is true that many people lowball their bids on one seller's auctions hoping to win a bargain. Usually, however, the items are similar products--perhaps this seller's specialty--and the bidder hopes to get a bargain on shipping as well by buying all from the same person(s).
However, the "devoted bidder" is especially indicative of shilling when the items are varied. It is highly unlikely, for example, that a bidder just happens to need a quilt, a man's suit, a woman's dress, a backpack, 2 laptops, a lamp, and a slot machine, among other items, just at the same time as one seller happens to have all of those items up for auction!

How do you find out if the ID you suspect is a "devoted bidder"? Do a Bidder Search on the User ID, using the eBay Search link located on the top navigation bar of almost every eBay page. Sellers' names are now listed on the Bidder List page, so you can quickly and easily see if the bidder prefers one (or two) seller(s).


Bidding to Lose.
Question: When you want something that has an opening or current bid of, say, £10.00, and you're willing to pay around £20.00 for it, would you put in a proxy bid of £19.99? Of course not. That would be stupid, you answer. You'd go with the even £20, or, if you're really smart, maybe £21.00 or £23.00, or even £20.37, just to throw other bidders for a loop and increase your chances of winning. Maybe you'll even bid £15 now and watch the auction to see if you need to bid £20 later. But £19.99?! Who wants to risk losing by a penny? So what is the putz that bid £19.99 doing? This is a "loser bid". It is specifically designed to lose, not to win. It's guesswork shilling, hoping to push another bidder (that's you) up to the next increment, or--if they're really brazen--your max.
Be careful! The amount of the "loser bid" depends on a) the opening bid and b) the current high bid (determined by other bidders). It's NOT unreasonable to bid £19.99 when the opening or current high bid is £9.99. Also, you may get confused about which bidder is a potential shill. Make sure to check the time and date of bids. You can find this information in the Bid History, after the auction is over, from the link on the main listing page.


Similarity of seller & bidder IDs.
This is something you'll only come across by chance, and you sometimes need to take the category into account. Watch for alliteration and initials, as well. For (fictitious) example, "jsmith" might have a shill ID "[email protected]". This is the type of similarity you should report as a potential shill. Sometimes the similarity is based on common interest, however. Another fictitious example: Seller "sanrio-rules!" has a bid from user ID "ilovesanrio!". Seller "sanrio-rules!" sells (you guessed it) Sanrio products. Check the other warning signs if you want, but the ID similarity is probably purely innocent and based on a common interest. If you see that "ilovesanrio!" is also buying a toaster from "sanrio-rules!", however, you should probably report it to SafeHarbor.

Seller is too quick to relist.
When items are accidentally won by a shill account, they are often relisted soon after auction closes. This is particularly salient for non-duplicable items: handmade, unique, or rare/hard-to-find items, especially antiques, art, and collectibles. Though it does happen that a high bidder refuses an auction immediately after winning, it is more likely that they'll string the seller along for at least a few days. Relisting in fewer than 4 days is far too soon to not activate your radar.
How do you know the item has been relisted? Far be it from a shiller to eat the listing fees on an unsold item. That just wouldn't be fair. The shiller will likely relist using the eBay relist function in order to get their listing fees back. Therefore, the original listing page will have a link to the new auction. Of course, their intelligence may for once override their greed, and they might start up a whole new ad, which can be found in the current seller history.


Shotgun feedback.
Feedback is exchanged during a curiously short period of time (3 days at the outside). Feedback between shill and seller ID is known as "shill feedback"--a little consolation prize for the seller who accidentally wins their own auction. Few find it easy to resist. These days, with instant payments more and more common, it is really only the bidder-to-seller feedback that counts here. Which is just as well, because
it's the seller (the primary account) who's usually the lucky feedback recipient.
It is possible for a bidder to receive an item and leave feedback within 3 days (it happened to me once by the good graces of the Royal Mail Fairy). Possible, but not common. Look for other indicators, such as fast relisting, and use your own judgment. It won't hurt anything to report it--the seller will get to explain to SafeHarbor.


Numerous Retractions.
More than 3 in a 6 month period and you have the right to be suspicious. Let's face it: anyone truly that stupid or careless should not be using eBay. I mean, considering that after the first time you bid £1000 instead of £10 you needed to change your shorts...would you really let it happen again? The bid retraction option has been the favourite tool of shillers since the beginning. The shill bids outrageously high in order to reveal your maximum, then retracts and either:
gives some lame retraction explanation like "oops, wrong amount" and bids again just under your max,
or
gives some lame retraction explanation like "don't want it", signs in under another account, and bids just under your max.
Since the number of bid retractions now shows up in your feedback profile, it is significantly less popular. We see more and more shillers using the guesswork technique, chipping away slowly at other bidders' proxy maximums. However, the newbie criminals still use it. Report 'em and nip 'em in the bud while they're young.

Nibbling.
Nibbling is when you see someone who has placed a series of bids one after another, upping their bid a little each time.
If this has resulted in the bidder winning the auction then it is a often not a problem and is just an indication of a bidder who does not understand how the proxy bidding process works, or had no fixed maximum price.
When the nibbler has retracted their highest bid leaving another bidder as the winner then you are looking at suspicious activity.
How to report shill bidding:


Use the report link on the Shill Bidding Policy page, found here:
Shill Bidding Policy


You can still use eBay's direct e-mail, which is [email protected]">[email protected]

When forming your reports, it's important to include as much evidence as you can. This includes all user IDs, auction numbers, and miscellaneous evidence to help your report.

Keep the details because if safeharbor don't see enough evidence the first time around, you can use your initial report plus any new evidence should the behaviour continue.
How to avoid shill bidding:


Check out your seller's feedback thoroughly before you bid! Are there a disproportionate amount of "not a registered users" in their feedback profile? Is there a disproportionate amount of "0" and "1" feedback users in their feedback profile, with suspicious dates? For instance, make sure feedback is being exchanged only a few hours after the auctions close.

Check out the bidding history of your seller. Are they placing bids exclusively on another seller's items? If they are shilling for another user ID, the chances are someone is shilling for them as well!

Check the bid histories of ALL the bidders on the auction. Simply view the "bid history" of the auction in question, and plug those names into the bidder search engine. Are any of the bidders bidding exclusively on your seller's auctions? This is perhaps the most important step to avoid shill bidding--always check the bid histories of any auction before you bid!

Snipe your bids! The closer to the end of the auction that you place your bid, the less likely you are to be SHILLED. For instance, placing your bid 10 seconds before the auction closes would practically ensure you wouldn't be shilled AFTER placing your bid, as there isn't enough time. This doesn't guarantee that the auction hasn't already been shilled up to that point, but it does prevent it from being shilled further AFTER you bid.
AuctionPix Shill Bidder Tool

To use the AuctionPix - Shill Bidder Tool you enter an eBay item number and the tool looks at other items offered by the same seller on which the same bidders also appear. The item numbers of items found are then displayed, allowing you to conduct further checks.




Goofbay used to do a shill bidder tool that would list the activity of the seller and the bidders.. Ebay have stopped this now by not listing the bidders.. They do some silly moves ebay. I suppose they done this to stop other sellers contacting the highest non winning bidder to try and sell outside of the ebay coffers..
#30
At the end of the day you'd pay the same price whether he set a reserve or got his friend to bid. It just means that ebay lost out on some fees.
#31
Benjimoron;3695559
At the end of the day you'd pay the same price whether he set a reserve or got his friend to bid. It just means that ebay lost out on some fees.

Not at all.

The reserve the seller had in mind may have been £50. When doing their bit of shill bidding the saw that the OP was willing to pay £80.. = £30 more than what a reserve would have been.

(hypothetically)
#32
Titchimp
Not at all.

The reserve the seller had in mind may have been £50. When doing their bit of shill bidding the saw that the OP was willing to pay £80.. = £30 more than what a reserve would have been.

(hypothetically)


I'm glad you put hypothetically in there!

Hypothetically the reserve might have been at the price the OP was willing to pay.

Granted it gives the seller a bit of flexibilty.
#33
pcnutta
Ditto.
One Neg feedback you will get, thats all. Try demanding paypal and if he cannot comply then thats you back out.


I thought that Feedback couldn't be left if no transaction took place, even before sellers were stopped from leaving feedback?
#34
Benjimoron
At the end of the day you'd pay the same price whether he set a reserve or got his friend to bid. It just means that ebay lost out on some fees.


Titchimp
Not at all.

The reserve the seller had in mind may have been £50. When doing their bit of shill bidding the saw that the OP was willing to pay £80.. = £30 more than what a reserve would have been.

(hypothetically)


Benjimoron
I'm glad you put hypothetically in there!

Hypothetically the reserve might have been at the price the OP was willing to pay.

Granted it gives the seller a bit of flexibilty.


Titchimp is right here. It doesn't matter what reserve price the seller might have put. The point is that he didn't! Instead, it seems like he cheated and broke the rules. Whichever way you look at this, it works to the buyer's disadvantage. That's why it is against the rules! The "but you were willing to pay that price anyway" argument is irrelevant. ( * having said all this, I have no way of knowing if the seller actually did cheat in this case, but from what we know it certainly seems like he did * )
#35
Liddle ol' me
Titchimp is right here. It doesn't matter what reserve price the seller might have put. The point is that he didn't! Instead, it seems like he cheated and broke the rules. Whichever way you look at this, it works to the buyer's disadvantage. That's why it is against the rules! The "but you were willing to pay that price anyway" argument is irrelevant. ( * having said all this, I have no way of knowing if the seller actually did cheat in this case, but from what we know it certainly seems like he did * )


Yeah ok, I accept that the seller gets an advantage this way.

I'm thinking more of a seller putting in a bid to stop it selling lower, ie a reserve.

In this case he can set that to the best possible price getting an added advantage.
#36
thesaint
I thought that Feedback couldn't be left if no transaction took place, even before sellers were stopped from leaving feedback?


Feedback can (and I think it's encouraged by ebay) be left even if the transaction isn't completed.
#37
Benjimoron
Feedback can (and I think it's encouraged by ebay) be left even if the transaction isn't completed.


So the OP can leave a neg even though they have decided that they don't want to buy what they were prepared to pay?
The seller then can't leave feedback in return?

They say HUKD is bad. :?
#38
thesaint
So the OP can leave a neg even though they have decided that they don't want to buy what they were prepared to pay?
The seller then can't leave feedback in return?

They say HUKD is bad. :?


The seller can leave feedback, just not neg anymore.
#39
thesaint
So the OP can leave a neg even though they have decided that they don't want to buy what they were prepared to pay?
The seller then can't leave feedback in return?

They say HUKD is bad. :?


I personally probably wouldn't neg, but lets face it, they broke the rules by shill bidding, maybe they deserve a neg.
#40
I agree with the others who pointed out that you were prepared to buy it at that price.

On the other hand, you are NEVER obliged to conclude a transaction, neither as buyer nor as seller; NOTHING on ebay is legally binding (even though they want to make you believe so) so you can just pull out without giving any reason, worst that can happen is that they report you as non-paying bidder (gets you suspended only after the 3rd time within a certain period of time).

Post a Comment

You don't need an account to leave a comment. Just enter your email address. We'll keep it private.

...OR log in with your social account

...OR comment using your social account

Thanks for your comment! Keep it up!
We just need to have a quick look and it will be live soon.
The community is happy to hear your opinion! Keep contributing!