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Electricity / Gas help please.....

biggielove Avatar
6y, 7m agoPosted 6 years, 7 months ago
Hi,

My current deal with Scottish power has expire on discounted energy and am looking to switch, or maybe even stay with them.

My last years annual consumption was:

Gas: £625 21,753kw/h
Elec: £625 3,414 units

I've been through all the price comparison sites and npower online 18 months looks to be the cheapest on each of them.

Without sounding thick though, I really dont know what to look for on these things and have always tended to go for the cheapest I see and at times have been stung by them.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
biggielove Avatar
6y, 7m agoPosted 6 years, 7 months ago
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#1
I recently did the same.. ive been with N power for years and they came out cheaper... online 18 is the one ive just changed over too.. saving me over 150 per year on electric and similar for gas. its worth it :)
#2
What area of the country are you in?
#3
Try Sainsbury, tie in is for 12 months, good discount plus nectar.
#4
m00bs
Try Sainsbury, tie in is for 12 months, good discount plus nectar.


Plus £50 off your first bill when you signup for online [email protected] version 6!
#5
Don't forget Quidco.
#6
You need to know how much pence per unit you're charged.
#7
If you would like to stay with Scottish Power look at their 'Online Energy Reward Dual Fuel'
You could phone them up and ask them to compare this cost against your old tariff.
Don't forget this 'tariff' includes a £115 credit if you are still with them next June.

Unit prices
Gas 3.675p per kWh
2.676p per kWh above 4572 kWh p.a
Electricity 11.21p per kWh
9.29p per kWh above 900 kWh p.a
All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%

Discounts
Dual Fuel Discount: £16.80
Online Energy Discount: £15.75

BUT

Cancellation charges of £30 for electricity and £20 for gas apply if you leave this plan before March 2011

if you phone them try this freephone number 0800 400200
#8
I'm in Leeds, LS8 - the nice end.....
#9
1. uswitch

2. go with the cheapest via a cashback site
#10
I was with British Gas, then went over to ScottishPower and it cost me over £50 a month more with Scottish power, so I went straight back to BG!

The online searches are very misleading!!! You would be better going on the sites of companies and looking at their price per unit, standing charges etc
#11
silkymolo
I was with British Gas, then went over to ScottishPower and it cost me over £50 a month more with Scottish power, so I went straight back to BG!

The online searches are very misleading!!! You would be better going on the sites of companies and looking at their price per unit, standing charges etc


Just because your direct debit was higher doesn't mean it was costing you any more.

The online searches do the calculation for you, including bonuses.

[SIZE="5"]This post vvv is wrong. They do take that into account!![/SIZE]
banned#12
Benjimoron
Just because your direct debit was higher doesn't mean it was costing you any more.

The online searches do the calculation for you, including bonuses.


what they dont take into account is how many khw are charged at the higher rate, if you put in a monthly direct debit, scottish power rates look good compared to bg but i have just worked out my last couple of bills on scottish power tariffs and there was none, yet the compare sites say it is better
banned#13
scottish power have a bad habit of making higher montly estimates to get a very nice amount of money in their favour, and make it very hard to leave and get that money back

not worth the hassle, bad company to deal with
#14
sassie
what they dont take into account is how many khw are charged at the higher rate, if you put in a monthly direct debit, scottish power rates look good compared to bg but i have just worked out my last couple of bills on scottish power tariffs and there was none, yet the compare sites say it is better


Of course they do!!! The calculation wouldn't be anywhere near accurate if it didn't!

Gas unit rates: 6.525p per kWh 3.158p per kWh above 2680 kWh p.a
Electricity unit rates: 23.982p per kWh 9.146p per kWh above 900 kWh p.a

As an example from uswitch, notice that it recognises the different rates and when they come into effect.
banned#15
Benjimoron
Of course they do!!! The calculation wouldn't be anywhere near accurate if it didn't!

Gas unit rates: 6.525p per kWh 3.158p per kWh above 2680 kWh p.a
Electricity unit rates: 23.982p per kWh 9.146p per kWh above 900 kWh p.a

As an example from uswitch, notice that it recognises the different rates and when they come into effect.


did you miss the if you put in a direct debit amount, rather than khw consumption, a direct debit shows how much you pay a month, not what you use. or are you saying by me saying i pay £25 per month the calculations can work out how many khw i use per month/year, no of course it cant
#16
sassie
did you miss the if you put in a direct debit amount, rather than khw consumption, a direct debit shows how much you pay a month, not what you use. or are you saying by me saying i pay £25 per month the calculations can work out how many khw i use per month/year, no of course it cant


You get the same results whether you put in a £ figure or a kwh figure. All it does it coverts the £ figure into a kwh one!!!

You're talking about something different anyway. You said:

"what they dont take into account is how many khw are charged at the higher rate"

and they do.

You then went on to say about putting in a dd amount rather than a kwh (which is completely unrelated to the point we were discussing), to which I pointed out that the calculator simply converts your £ figure into a kwh figure (that's one of the reasons why you have to put your current tariff in, so that it can work out how many kwh's that is).

Of course if you're ever putting a dd amount into one of these things you need to ensure it's accurate, it's no good putting in your dd amount of £100 when you only actually use £50 worth!! (as I said though, this isn't the point we were talking about).
#17
sassie
did you miss the if you put in a direct debit amount, rather than khw consumption, a direct debit shows how much you pay a month, not what you use. or are you saying by me saying i pay £25 per month the calculations can work out how many khw i use per month/year, no of course it cant


I see you've edited.

Or course it can, you put in your current tariff and it knows how much it charges per kwh and the bonuses etc on that tariff. From that it can work out how much you use.

Look at the top left on uswitch and you'll see what kwh's it has worked out for you.

"You are currently paying £600.00 a year for gas and £600.00 a year for electricity based on a consumption of 15609kWh for gas and 5733kWh for electricity with British Gas and SEEBOARD Energy."

Another example for you there ^^^.


If you didn't put your current tariff then I agree it wouldn't know, but that's one of the reasons it asks you!!
banned#18
benfimoron not going to argue with you, but would advise anyone to calculate any bills with the different tariffs rather than assume the switch sites are correct, scottish power is not cheaper for me no matter what the comaprison sites say, and i am pretty sure we had this discussion last year to
#19
sassie
what they dont take into account is how many khw are charged at the higher rate,


"Consumption thresholds (some suppliers charge a different, often lower, unit rate once a customer's gas or electricity consumption has passed a certain threshold) "

One of the things that Uswitch use in their calculation.
#20
sassie
benfimoron not going to argue with you, but would advise anyone to calculate any bills with the different tariffs rather than assume the switch sites are correct, scottish power is not cheaper for me no matter what the comaprison sites say, and i am pretty sure we had this discussion last year to


I don't want to argue either. But I'd rather the correct/useful info is out there for people to see. You've posted that the calculators don't take something into account that they actually do.

I'd be very suprised if someone could caluculate the results better than the online calculators. There are so many variables to take into account, tier 1 and tier 2 prices and at what point they start and finish at the different times of the year, the complicated bonus discount schemes operated by every company for dd discount, dual fuel discount, online tariff discount etc. Plus you'd need to do the calculation for each available tariff to find the cheapest, would take quite a while to do that for 100 odd tariffs!
banned#21
Benjimoron
I don't want to argue either. But I'd rather the correct/useful info is out there for people to see. You've posted that the calculators don't take something into account that they actually do.

I'd be very suprised if someone could caluculate the results better than the online calculators. There are so many variables to take into account, tier 1 and tier 2 prices and at what point they start and finish at the different times of the year, the complicated bonus discount schemes operated by every company for dd discount, dual fuel discount, online tariff discount etc. Plus you'd need to do the calculation for each available tariff to find the cheapest, would take quite a while to do that for 100 odd tariffs!


i think doing the 1st two would show you how accurate they are, i did the 1st 3 and not one of them was cheaper even though the comparisons said they where, and that was taking into account all discounts etc,etc
#22
sassie
i think doing the 1st two would show you how accurate they are, i did the 1st 3 and not one of them where cheaper even though the comparisons said they where


Care to show your workings out, I would happily bet money on there being the odd mistake in there. I don't mean any offence by that, it's extrememly difficult for a human to work it out, so many variables etc.
banned#23
Benjimoron
Care to show your workings out, I would happily bet money on there being the odd mistake in there. I don't mean any offence by that, it's extrememly difficult for a human to work it out, so many variables etc.


i havent checked for a while, but its hardly hard to work out, your bill shows you what you need to know, and you just input the figures from the other tariff, it isnt to hard

the only variables, are discounts, and the changes in different tariffs to how many khw are charged at tier 1


and no offence taken, but i am pretty crap hot when it comes to paying for anything
#24
sassie
i havent checked for a while, but its hardly hard to work out, your bill shows you what you need to know, and you just input the figures from the other tariff, it isnt to hard

the only variables, are discounts, and the changes in different tariffs to how many khw are charged at tier 1


and no offence taken, but i am pretty crap hot when it comes to paying for anything


Did you take into account the different times of the year and the impact that has on the level where tier 1 changes into tier 2?

Also did you make sure you calculated the VAT correctly? Some bills show as included and some excluded. Did you add VAT on before or after discounts? Did you apply all discounts at once or consecutively?
#26


No mate, will be your computer only that link will work. Feel free to put the details on here though.



"Gas customers paying by Direct Debit will receive a discount off their Tier 2 consumption charges of 0.196 p/kWh, up to a maximum of £16.25 (inc VAT) per quarter (or £5.42 per month for monthly billing customers). Electricity customers paying by Direct Debit will receive a discount off their Tier 2 consumption charges (and night rates where applicable) of 1.429 p/kWh up to a maximum of £10 (inc VAT) per quarter (or £3.33 per month for monthly billing customers). Based on average annual consumption of 20,500 kWh for gas and 3,300 kWh for single rate electricity as at 9th April 2010, is rounded and includes VAT at 5%. Discount received varies according to seasonal consumption.

Subject to status and not having an overdue electricity account.

†Up to £15 annual dual fuel discount is given where British Gas supplies both gas and electricity to the same property (and the accounts are in the same names). No dual fuel discount is available to customers with token or smartcard electricity meters. Only one dual fuel discount per property. Where electricity is supplied through a credit meter, a discount of 0.537 p/kWh off electricity Tier 2 rates (and night rates where applicable) up to a maximum of £3.75 (inc VAT) per quarter (or £1.25 per month for monthly billing customers) appears on the electricity bill. Based on average annual single rate electricity consumption of 3,300 kWh as at 9th April 2010, is rounded and includes VAT at 5%. Discount received varies according to seasonal consumption. "

This is one of the things I'm talking about, now tell me that you're able to calculate that correctly, better than a computer could do.
banned#27
of course i can add those in, its hardly rocket science, your bill tells you everything you need to know, i am confused to why you think you cant
#28
Benjimoron
Did you take into account the different times of the year and the impact that has on the level where tier 1 changes into tier 2?

Also did you make sure you calculated the VAT correctly? Some bills show as included and some excluded. Did you add VAT on before or after discounts? Did you apply all discounts at once or consecutively?


To add to that, did you correctly work back your current bills, taking into account that a 10% discount for example doesn't require a 10% addition to get it back to where it should be.

Kind of like if you started off with 100, took 50% off, you've got 50. Now add 50% back from the current figure you have and you get 75.

Same as with VAT, it's 17.5% but you have to take off 14.9% to get back to an ex vat price.

Did you calculate the discounts correctly?
banned#29
New plan details
Price Guarantee Dual Fuel from npower

Unit prices

Gas
7.761p per kWh
2.507p per kWh above 4572 kWh p.a
Electricity
17.33p per kWh
10.49p per kWh above 728 kWh p.a

All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%
Discounts

* Dual Fuel Discount: £10.50
* Gas Monthly Direct Debit Discount: £52.50
* Electricity Monthly Direct Debit Discount: £42.00

All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%
Price Guarantee Dual Fuel features

* Rates are capped until 31st May 2011
* Prices are guaranteed to remain 2% below npower standard rates
* No cancellation fees
* Limited availability

Annual cost

Payment method: Variable Direct Debit
Estimated cost of gas: £551.88
Estimated cost of electricity £311.53
Based on a consumption of 14944kWh for gas and 2896kWh for electricity.

How have we calculated these figures?
Terms and conditions

npower Price Control Agreement
Price Guarantee offer

These terms in this Price Control Agreement are in addition to and do not replace npower’s Standard terms for supplying electricity and gas to domestic customers. Words which are defined in our Standard terms for supplying electricity and gas to domestic customers shall have the same meaning in this Price Control Agreement.

Should you switch to the Price Guarantee offer, you will lose any benefits of your previous npower tariff and may not be able to return to that tariff later.

These additional terms apply to you if:
• we (npower) supply your gas and electricity (or electricity only in the absence of a mains gas connection);
• you are a domestic customer;
• you agree to pay your energy bills by monthly Direct Debit or quarterly variable Direct Debit or any other payment method that we may agree with you from time to time;
• you are a new customer of ours (or any other npower group company) or you are an existing customer and you pay on the prevailing standard variable tariff where our charges are wholly based on a single rate metered standard domestic tariff (or two rate metered economy 7 tariff for electricity); and
• you have chosen and we have agreed to supply you on our Price Guarantee offer.

If at any time you do not meet any of these eligibility criteria (“Eligibility Criteria”) or do not comply with the terms of the Price Guarantee offer, we may transfer you to our standard (off-line) variable prices applicable to you, and you may not be able to switch back to the Price Guarantee offer at any point in the future.

You cannot be supplied on our Price Guarantee offer:
• if your supply is through a prepayment meter; or
• if we only supply you with one fuel (except in the absence of a mains gas connection); or
• whilst remaining on any other tariff such as “Standard”; “Energy Discount”; “Fixed 2011”; “Juice”; “National Trust”; and any online tariff; and/or
• whilst you are benefiting from one of our other offers which we decide cannot be used together with the Price Guarantee (such as the “Energy Bonus Advance” and “npower ONE”).
Price Control Period

These terms apply from the date when we agree we will supply you under our Price Guarantee offer until the earlier of:
• 31st May 2011;
• the date you change your tariff with us;
• the date you cease to meet any of the Eligibility Criteria;
• except where we agree otherwise with you, the date you permanently leave the address where we provide you with the Price Guarantee; and
• the date we terminate our agreement with you in accordance with our ‘Standard terms for supplying electricity and gas to domestic customers’.

We call this the “Price Control Period”.
Our charges during the Price Control Period
During the Price Control Period our prices per unit for electricity and gas may vary but will never exceed the current prices that you opted for on sign-up, these being the prices indicated in the Price Guarantee offer, applicable to your area on the date when we agree we will supply you under our Price Guarantee offer.
The only exception to this is if any charge or cost is imposed by or as a consequence of any action, order, decision or imposition by any governmental, statutory or licensing authority, and, when added to our charges at the time, this causes our prices to exceed the guaranteed level. We will let you know about this in the same way as we let you know about all changes to our charges under our Standard terms for supplying electricity and gas to domestic customers.

Our charges after the Price Control Period ends
At the end of the Price Control Period, or at the end of your Price Control Agreement if this is earlier, and you continue to take supply from us, we will place you on our standard (off-line) variable prices for your area, which may be higher than your current Price Guarantee offer, unless we have another offer that we feel may be suitable for you and have agreed alternative terms with you.

Changing your mind
You can cancel this Price Control Agreement within 28 days from the date when we tell you that we have agreed to supply you under this Price Control Agreement. To do this, simply write to us at npower, PO Box 9647, Oldbury B69 2PZ, stating that you want to cancel this Price Control Agreement. If this Price Control Agreement is cancelled but you continue to take supply from us, we will continue to supply you on our normal standard variable prices under our ‘Standard terms for supplying electricity and gas to domestic customers’.

Changing supplier
If you change your supplier of electricity or gas, or both, to which this Price Control Agreement applies, you will no longer be eligible for the Price Guarantee offer.

Changing your tariff
If you change your tariff during the Price Control Period for an alternative npower tariff you will no longer be eligible for the Price Guarantee offer and will be supplied under the terms of your new tariff, and you may not be able to switch back to the Price Guarantee offer at any point in the future.

Moving home
If you move home this Price Control Agreement will normally end, but you may be able to transfer it to your new home if you continue to meet the Eligibility Criteria and:
• your electricity and gas (or electricity only in the absence of a mains gas connection) is provided on a single rate standard domestic tariff (or two rate economy 7 tariff for electricity); and
• you do not have a prepayment meter; and
• you ask us to transfer the Agreement to your new home when you tell us about your change of address; and
• we agree to continue with the Price Control Agreement at your new home.

If we agree, the prices you will pay for your supplies for the rest of the Price Control Period will be the prices under the Price Guarantee offer applicable to your new home. Those prices may be different from the prices in your present home, for example due to regional variations in our prices, or different metering, or gas being supplied by an Independent Gas Transporter.
25.03.10
Your current plan details
Click Energy 6 Dual Fuel from British Gas
Unit prices

Gas
6.858p per kWh
3.198p per kWh above 2680 kWh p.a
Electricity
19.37p per kWh
8.48p per kWh above 500 kWh p.a

All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%
Discounts

None
Click Energy 6 Dual Fuel features

* You must manage your account online
* You must agree to paperless billing

Annual cost

Payment method: Variable Direct Debit
Estimated cost of gas: £576.00
Estimated cost of electricity £300.00
Based on a consumption of 14944kWh for gas and 2896kWh for electricity.

How have we calculated these figures?
#30
sassie
of course i can add those in, its hardly rocket science, your bill tells you everything you need to know, i am confused to why you think you cant


I'm 99.9% sure you'd have made a mistake with it. I'd be willing to put a £10 bet on it. If you're happy to show us your working out compared to the uswitch site and prove that their calculator is working the price out significantly incorrectly. I don't mean rounding by a few pence, proof that it's more than a few pounds wrong.
banned#31
notice the discounts in the n power,

Discounts

* Dual Fuel Discount: £10.50
* Gas Monthly Direct Debit Discount: £52.50
* Electricity Monthly Direct Debit Discount: £42.00

All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%


yet on britsh gas comparison, there is no discounts
#32
sassie
notice the discounts in the n power,

Discounts

* Dual Fuel Discount: £10.50
* Gas Monthly Direct Debit Discount: £52.50
* Electricity Monthly Direct Debit Discount: £42.00

All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%


yet on britsh gas comparison, there is no discounts


I don't know where you're looking but I can see that it clearly knows about the discounts:

"Discounts
Direct Debit Discount: 0.196 p/kWh off quarterly gas tier 2 rates up to a maximum of £16.25 per quarter
Direct Debit Discount: 1.429 p/kWh off quarterly electricity tier 2 rates up to a maximum of £10.00 per quarter
Dual Fuel Discount: 0.537 p/kWh off quarterly electricity tier 2 rates up to a maximum of £3.75 per quarter
All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%"
banned#33
Benjimoron
I don't know where you're looking but I can see that it clearly knows about the discounts:

"Discounts
Direct Debit Discount: 0.196 p/kWh off quarterly gas tier 2 rates up to a maximum of £16.25 per quarter
Direct Debit Discount: 1.429 p/kWh off quarterly electricity tier 2 rates up to a maximum of £10.00 per quarter
Dual Fuel Discount: 0.537 p/kWh off quarterly electricity tier 2 rates up to a maximum of £3.75 per quarter
All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%"


on the uswitch site, where it comes up the cheapest option for me is Price Guarantee Dual Fuel from npower

and when you click to compare it to my current provider it states no discounts


Click Energy 6 Dual Fuel from British Gas
Unit prices

Gas 6.858p per kWh
3.198p per kWh above 2680 kWh p.a
Electricity 19.37p per kWh
8.48p per kWh above 500 kWh p.a

All prices shown are inclusive of V.A.T. at 5%
Discounts None
Click Energy 6 Dual Fuel features

* You must manage your account online
* You must agree to paperless billing

Annual cost

Payment method: Variable Direct Debit
Estimated cost of gas: £576.00
Estimated cost of electricity £300.00
Based on a consumption of 14944kWh for gas and 2896kWh for electricity.

How have we calculated these figures?
#34
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3104/elecd.jpg

Definately there!!

Not sure what you're doing but it's definately on the site!!

Different area, different prices, possibly different discounts, I would imagine that it's just a typo and the discount is still taken into account.

What's a postcode in your area?

And where's your working out to actually prove there's any discrepancy?
banned#35
not what it is showing me, uploading now, but doubt it be as clear as yours

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc254/sassie-sassie/BG.png
#36
Benjimoron

What's a postcode in your area?

And where's your working out to actually prove there's any discrepancy? Rather than just a typo.
#37
I used SY20 1AW, Shrewsbury, and it still comes up just fine. Really don't know why it's coming up like that for you. You cleared cookies etc?
banned#38
my screen shot proves the discrepency i am far to tired to pee around with figures, but if it helps

from screenshot

14944 2680

2680 khw @ tier 1
12264 khw @ tier 2

do the maths and see what the annual spend is per year, think you will find its estimated cost of gas is £576 with no discounts, so is the annual cost at the bottom inclusive of discounts or not? cause BG certainly isnt
#39
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5629/gasc.jpg

I would suggest that something funny is going on with your pc. I get different result to you and would suggest taking a look at Scottish Power as you may just get in time for £130 through TCB before it finishes tonight.
#40
sassie
my screen shot proves the discrepency


Your screen shot proves a possible typo, but seeing as it's working fine on mine I would suggest the cause of this is something on your pc. I don't know why it's like that but clearing the cookies etc may help.

Seeing as this error only appears on your pc I think it's pretty safe to say that it's not a problem with Uswitch or the way they do their calculations.

Feel free to back up your argument with calculations tomorrow but as I said, this error is only showing on your pc.

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