Employment Law advice please - sickness in particular - HotUKDeals
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Employment Law advice please - sickness in particular

Kizzy76 Avatar
8y, 1m agoPosted 8 years, 1 month ago
Hi all

I'm hoping someone can help me here. We have an employee that claims he hurt his back at work. No witnesses. He is at work but cliaming his doctor advised light duties and physiotherapy. He has a physio appointment early afternoon this week and states that he will not be able to return to work after as he should not remian still for up to 2 hours afterwards, including driving.

We've told him that if (as he says) he cannot do his full job description we need medical letters/notes to back this up and cannot take just his word for it.

He's now off to the union!

Can anyone advise me if we're doing the right thing/following the correct proceedure?

Thanks and rep added
Kizzy76 Avatar
8y, 1m agoPosted 8 years, 1 month ago
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#1
I'm sure that you are not being unreasonable by asking for a letter. I should think this is pretty standard :)
#2
he is legally obliged to give you a copy of the doctors letter as proof of his illness. Otherwise every T D & H would be claiming this.
#3
Not trying to sound bad here, but do you not have a HR / Personnel dept who is trained in stuff like this?

I don't think this is the place that you should be asking for this type of info.
#4
modoc
Not trying to sound bad here, but do you not have a HR / Personnel dept who is trained in stuff like this?

I don't think this is the place that you should be asking for this type of info.


Yes we do - I thought that it wouldn't hurt to get some other opinions though - or am I wrong?
#5
bellabonkers
I'm sure that you are not being unreasonable by asking for a letter. I should think this is pretty standard :)


choc1969
he is legally obliged to give you a copy of the doctors letter as proof of his illness. Otherwise every T D & H would be claiming this.



Exactly as I thought - we've no proof that the original injury even exists or that the physio has advised a full afternoon off work!
#6
Kizzy76
Yes we do - I thought that it wouldn't hurt to get some other opinions though - or am I wrong?


No you're not wrong doing this, but how do you know that the information that you will be given on here is correct.

Someone on here could give you the wrong information and you could end up doing what they said. You could end up digging a big hole for yourself. :thumbsup:
#7
modoc
No you're not wrong doing this, but how do you know that the information that you will be given on here is correct.

Someone on here could give you the wrong information and you could end up doing what they said. You could end up digging a big hole for yourself. :thumbsup:


Never hurts to get opinions though :)
[mod]#8
He needs to give you doctors notes.If he refuses, he is being unreasonable.
#9
thanks everyone, I just wanted to get a general feel out there, seems the common sense rule fits in this case!
#10
bellabonkers
Never hurts to get opinions though :)


I know that, but what I'm trying to say is that in this case he/she needs facts not opinions.
You can't just use other peoples opinions in a case as sensitive as this. Its someones livelihood that he/she is dealing with here and he/she needs to be 100% sure that any actions that are carried out can be backed up from a legal perspective.
#11
Yes any treatment longer than a single apppointment needs to be proven to employers, On most appointment letters or enclosed leaflets normally has details of how long it will take and if you need to rest etc after.
After every lumber puncture i have i have to stay lying down for min 4 hours before going home and it states it on every appointment letter.
[mod]#12
Kizzy76
thanks everyone, I just wanted to get a general feel out there, seems the common sense rule fits in this case!


Search on google for "implied terms of employment" and also "express terms of employment". That might help you following on from the common sense rules etc.
#13
If he hurt his back at work then it should be logged in the Incident Book (or Injuries Book, or whatever your company call it). If it's not in there then it doesn't mean that the accident didn't happen, but it can make it difficult for him later when/if documentation about the accident is requested.

Make sure he fills in the book. (As an added bonus, if he is lying about the accident & puts it in writing then if found out he can be dismissed.)
#14
dmissy13
Yes any treatment longer than a single apppointment needs to be proven to employers, On most appointment letters or enclosed leaflets normally has details of how long it will take and if you need to rest etc after.
After every lumber puncture i have i have to stay lying down for min 4 hours before going home and it states it on every appointment letter.


cis_groupie
If he hurt his back at work then it should be logged in the Incident Book (or Injuries Book, or whatever your company call it). If it's not in there then it doesn't mean that the accident didn't happen, but it can make it difficult for him later when/if documentation about the accident is requested.

Make sure he fills in the book. (As an added bonus, if he is lying about the accident & puts it in writing then if found out he can be dismissed.)



He has made an accident report but has no appointment letters he can show us. He's also know for doing this in the past, so we want to crack down on it finally!

We'll see what his union says - doubt he's got a case as we haven't said he can't have the time off just prove that it's necessary.
#15
Be careful or you may need to do a wee bit of reading up about libel law while you're at it :thumbsup:
#16
modoc
I know that, but what I'm trying to say is that in this case he/she needs facts not opinions.
You can't just use other peoples opinions in a case as sensitive as this. Its someones livelihood that he/she is dealing with here and he/she needs to be 100% sure that any actions that are carried out can be backed up from a legal perspective.


I see your point :) you need to be absolutely sure you do the right thing.
banned#17
Kizzy, if you hold 'legal cover' on either your home insurance or car insurance you can contact a full legal team about matters of this nature, and get free advice from a solicitor.
#18
you must work (or is it your own company?) in a fair sized company - at least 20 employers to have union membership

cannot understand why you have posted this on hukd - get your solicitors onto it - and tell the employee to make sure he puts a claim in against you - union will do all that for him anyway - their solicitors contacting your solicitors etc

it seems to me you have already convicted him of pulling a fast one - judge jury all in one - im so glad we live in a democracy

good luck to your employee:thumbsup:
#19
I dont see any harm in asking these questions, so why not this? The OP is only asking for input from other members, if you know nothing then say that, if you have something positive and constructive to say then say that as well.

But saying that it shouldnt be on here then you are also stating that there are other completely carp and irrelevant post within the last hour or so on here but nobody is going and saying that to those OPs so why treat the noob that way?

Cant understand some people.

Ideal example is 'Any mechanics on here?', or 'Any doctors'? yada yada yada....nobody goes telling them that they shouldnt be doing this on here. Who is to say that it shouldnt be on here? if its in the rules or guidelines then point the OP to that rule or guidelines or ask a Mod if the post is acceptable. Too many judges on here imo.
#20
I don't think discussing an employees personel matters on a internet forum is right to be honest. I know its a long shot but what if he is a fellow poster and gets wind of it. Stranger things have happened. Be warned
#21
StevenA2000_uk
I dont see any harm in asking these questions, so why not this? The OP is only asking for input from other members, if you know nothing then say that, if you have something positive and constructive to say then say that as well.

But saying that it shouldnt be on here then you are also stating that there are other completely carp and irrelevant post within the last hour or so on here but nobody is going and saying that to those OPs so why treat the noob that way?

Cant understand some people.

Ideal example is 'Any mechanics on here?', or 'Any doctors'? yada yada yada....nobody goes telling them that they shouldnt be doing this on here. Who is to say that it shouldnt be on here? if its in the rules or guidelines then point the OP to that rule or guidelines or ask a Mod if the post is acceptable. Too many judges on here imo.


I do see your point but this matter is obviousily very sensitive given that we are talking about another persons personal circumstances.
#22
kemo
I don't think discussing an employees personel matters on a internet forum is right to be honest. I know its a long shot but what if he is a fellow poster and gets wind of it. Stranger things have happened. Be warned


As long as the OP doesnt mention the company name or name of individual then the question is completely hypothetical but I do understand what your saying.
#23
StevenA2000_uk
I dont see any harm in asking these questions, so why not this? The OP is only asking for input from other members, if you know nothing then say that, if you have something positive and constructive to say then say that as well.

But saying that it shouldnt be on here then you are also stating that there are other completely carp and irrelevant post within the last hour or so on here but nobody is going and saying that to those OPs so why treat the noob that way?

Cant understand some people.

Ideal example is 'Any mechanics on here?', or 'Any doctors'? yada yada yada....nobody goes telling them that they shouldnt be doing this on here. Who is to say that it shouldnt be on here? if its in the rules or guidelines then point the OP to that rule or guidelines or ask a Mod if the post is acceptable. Too many judges on here imo.


Nobody is saying ( well not me anyway) that she shouldn't be posting it on here. I was suggesting that she needs to tread very carefully when it comes to cases such as this. There is a big difference in consulting the proper legal channels and getting uninformed opinions from an internet forum.

In regards to the example about mechanics etc, there is a massive difference when making accusations about someones livelihood and then trying to compare it to getting information about a leaking radiator. :-D
#24
modoc
Nobody is saying ( well not me anyway) that she shouldn't be posting it on here. I was suggesting that she needs to tread very carefully when it comes to cases such as this. There is a big difference in consulting the proper legal channels and getting uninformed opinions from an internet forum.

In regards to the example about mechanics etc, there is a massive difference when making accusations about someones livelihood and then trying to compare it to getting information about a leaking radiator. :-D


Yep, agreed but re thread #23.

At the end of the day and hypothetically speaking, if the 'sick' individual followed the process and submitted certain documents to their employer (who should notify the employee of the process upon beginning employment) then everything would be above board and the question wouldnt have arisen in the first place. This in no way alleviates any burden from the employer as they should already know the statutory requirements relating to sick leave and the process to be followed so that it is transparent and clear to all parties involved.
banned#25
As long as no data recording equipment is involved, personally I would give him a beating :thumbsup:
#26
lumoruk
As long as no data recording equipment is involved, personally I would give him a beating :thumbsup:


Here Here. That way it would be clear the individual is in fact 'sick'. :whistling:
#27
Person says it's the employee's legal obligation to provide access to medial records etc.

Employee says this to employee.

Employee speaks to union.

Union speaks to lawyers.

Lawyers confirm it is not the case.

Meanwhile, employer badgers employee constantly demanding medical cert.

Employee has also been posting on forums.

Employee signs off ill, citing stress due to harassment.

Employee is given additional flak.

Employee sues employer.

Employer sues HUDK member for representing their statements as factual.



And this is why speculation is good on consumer-level things, but on thigs where hundred-K lawsuits can be flung about, less so.
#28
Re post '..Any Solicitors..?'

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/190738/help-employment-law-any-solicitors-/showthread.php?t=190738

Many seasoned members took part in offering advice in that post yet nobody stated that it shouldnt be posted, why is this one different?
#29
StevenA2000_uk
Re post '..Any Solicitors..?'

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/190738/help-employment-law-any-solicitors-/showthread.php?t=190738

Many seasoned members took part in offering advice in that post yet nobody stated that it shouldnt be posted, why is this one different?


I was on holidays then :thumbsup:
(Only joking btw before you go searching back through my posts to find one from that date :-D ).
#30
modoc
I was on holidays then :thumbsup:
(Only joking btw before you go searching back through my posts to find one from that date :-D ).



I may well do that :thumbsup:
#31
http://www.pwsonline.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/myFiles/TumbleWeed.bmp
#32
stuff it - I thought i'd run this past the good people on HDUK and I seem to get mostly grief!

Many thanks to those that were helpful

Shan't bother in future!
#33
All I was after was some pointers to deal with an immediate situation.

Sorry that so many deemed it necessary to be so critical.

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