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English Lit GCSE Poem Help

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I hate poems but i need to get better at them for my exams Can anyone help me with a way to answer this question? Explore the way people are presented in the poem vultures and one other poem? … Read More
strike Avatar
8y, 1w agoPosted 8 years, 1 week ago
I hate poems but i need to get better at them for my exams

Can anyone help me with a way to answer this question?

Explore the way people are presented in the poem vultures and one other poem?

I need help on how to start it and how to compare, as well as the structure.

Please No off topic questions or how dumb i am

Thanks

+rep
Strike
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8y, 1w agoPosted 8 years, 1 week ago
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#1
Surely people might be able to help you out more if you tell us the titles of the two poems.
banned#2
Explore the way people are presented in the powem vultures and one other poem?

"Powem" = Poem.

However, I did these 2 years ago and I did all the mock tests etc, and the mocks were 10000% harder than the real thing. I hardly wrote anything and thought I had messed it up and I got an A so I guess the nervers should pull you through.

Also instead of "Explore" the way isn't it "Compare" as I don't think Explore makes sense,
I'm guessing your doing poems from erm.. Cluster 2?

Here is a very nice website which has note's on all the "Other Culture" cluster 2 poems.
Hope it helps,

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2290050/Other-Cultures-Notes-on-all-Poems
banned 1 Like #3
J.Dance
Surely people might be able to help you out more if you tell us the titles of the two poems.


I remember it always showed one poem usually "Vultures" then you get a wider range of "other culture" poems..

for example
Limbo, Nothing's changed, Island man, Vultures.
:)
#4
it dont matter on what poems they are im stuck on how to start a answer

As above it says Vultures and the other poem can be what were they like

You been unbanned?
#5
Conscept
Explore the way people are presented in the powem vultures and one other poem?

"Powem" = Poem.

However, I did these 2 years ago and I did all the mock tests etc, and the mocks were 10000% harder than the real thing. I hardly wrote anything and thought I had messed it up and I got an A so I guess the nervers should pull you through.

Also instead of "Explore" the way isn't it "Compare" as I don't think Explore makes sense,
I'm guessing your doing poems from erm.. Cluster 2?

Here is a very nice website which has note's on all the "Other Culture" cluster 2 poems.
Hope it helps,

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2290050/Other-Cultures-Notes-on-all-Poems


Yep it is explore. I am doing poems from Cluster 1.

Thanks for that mate.
banned#6
strike
Yep it is explore. I am doing poems from Cluster 1.

Thanks for that mate.


No problem,
and they always word their exams so stupidly. Trying to catch you out,
I'd reccomend you ask your tutor/teacher for some help on their keywords. The way in which they mean "Explore" will basically just mean describe, explain as you are looking into something.
#7
Conscept
No problem,
and they always word their exams so stupidly. Trying to catch you out,
I'd reccomend you ask your tutor/teacher for some help on their keywords. The way in which they mean "Explore" will basically just mean describe, explain as you are looking into something.


yes already made notes on what im going to ask my teacher for help on
banned#8
strike
yes already made notes on what im going to ask my teacher for help on


Good lad, :)
I got A level A2 standdown on 15th may you got the same?
You should get like 2 weeks+ to revise more.

Anyway
I'm off to work!
good luck :)
#9
Conscept
Good lad, :)
I got A level A2 standdown on 15th may you got the same?
You should get like 2 weeks+ to revise more.

Anyway
I'm off to work!
good luck :)


My exams start on 18 may which is maths and i break up from school on the 15 may :x

Got eng Lit on 19 May, 2 June is English A Higher and another one on 04 june.

Good Luck Mate.

Could you like give me a set up to use for e.g.

1st para = subject matter
2nd " " structure

etc
banned#10
strike
My exams start on 18 may which is maths and i break up from school on the 15 may :x

Got eng Lit on 19 May, 2 June is English A Higher and another one on 04 june.

Good Luck Mate.

Could you like give me a set up to use for e.g.

1st para = subject matter
2nd " " structure

etc


Will do when I get home if somebody hasn't already.
1 Like #11
strike - could you put both poems on here? I might be able to make some original comments/analysis that you might find useful - others can too I'm sure. If we put our heads together, we might come up with an A* answer! :thumbsup:
1 Like #12
Oh fantastic liddle :)

The question is 'Explore the way people are presented in the poem vultures and one other poem?'

Vultures Poem Below
In the greyness and drizzle of one despondent

dawn unstirred by harbingers of sunbreak a vulture

perching high on broken bone of a dead tree nestled close to his mate his smooth bashed-in head, a pebble on a stem rooted in

a dump of gross feathers, inclined affectionately to hers. Yesterday they picked the eyes of a swollen corpse in a water-logged trench and ate the things in its bowel. Full gorged they chose their roost

keeping the hollowed remnant in easy range of cold telescopic eyes ... Strange indeed how love in other ways so particular will pick a corner

in that charnel-house tidy it and coil up there, perhaps even fall asleep - her face

turned to the wall! ...Thus the Commandant at Belsen Camp going home for the day with fumes of human roast clinging rebelliously to his hairy nostrils will stop at the wayside sweet-shop and pick up a chocolate for his tender offspring waiting at home for Daddy's return ... Praise bounteous providence if you will that grants even an ogre a tiny glow-worm tenderness encapsulated in icy caverns of a cruel heart or else despair

for in every germ of that kindred love is lodged the perpetuity of evil.


What Were They Like Poem Below

Did the people of Viet Nam
use lanterns of stone?
Did they hold ceremonies
to reverence the opening of buds?
Were they inclined to quiet laughter?
Did they use bone and ivory,
jade and silver, for ornament?
Had they an epic poem?
Did they distinguish between speech and singing?

Sir, their light hearts turned to stone.
It is not remembered whether in gardens
stone gardens illumined pleasant ways.
Perhaps they gathered once to delight in blossom,
but after their children were killed
there were no more buds.
Sir, laughter is bitter to the burned mouth.
A dream ago, perhaps. Ornament is for joy.
All the bones were charred.
it is not remembered. Remember,
most were peasants; their life
was in rice and bamboo.
When peaceful clouds were reflected in the paddies
and the water buffalo stepped surely along terraces,
maybe fathers told their sons old tales.
When bombs smashed those mirrors
there was time only to scream.
There is an echo yet
of their speech which was like a song.
It was reported their singing resembled
the flight of moths in moonlight.
Who can say? It is silent now.

Im going to have a crack at it and will be back soon to rep ya :)
#13
Wow! Just read Vultures for the first time. Pretty shocking! First thing that jumps to mind is that the reader doesn't realise that their meal, the 'swollen corpse', is a human corpse until the poem changes perspective ... < shudder >. I'll look at it carefully now and make some fuller comments in a bit.
1 Like #14
Liddle ol' me
strike - could you put both poems on here? I might be able to make some original comments/analysis that you might find useful - others can too I'm sure. If we put our heads together, we might come up with an A* answer! :thumbsup:


I would also want to know if the poem is written from the left of the page ( usual style of writing ) or if there is a pattern to the writing... for instance some lines dropped below the others at unusual intervals...

With respect to "Vultures" I notice the way you have it typed out there is a break in the sentences which causes the reader to stop, go back and consider the previous line. Note the writer will have done this purposefully to encourage the reader to think more about the meaning behind the writers words...

"Praise bounteous providence if you will that grants even an ogre a tiny glow-worm tenderness encapsulated in icy caverns of a cruel heart or else despair

for in every germ of that kindred love is lodged the perpetuity of evil."

This is the most expressive line within the poem. It describes the writers main reason for writing the poem... this is what he/she would have you consider in respect to the people and "vultures" within the rest of the poem. It is saying... do we take heart, are we encouraged when we see that where there is evil there may also be great love and tenderness.... or are we appalled "despair" that whereever we find kindness, evil may be residing within its centre.

Is that basic enough language to be understood at GCSE level? The writer is asking you to consider this point. You must come to understand this point in your own words to follow through to a deeper understanding of the rest of the poem.

Now consider the actual language the writer uses...It is very descriptive ( note adjectives used ).

Return to the question, 'Explore the way people are presented in the poem vultures and one other poem?'

Consider all the people within the poem "Vultures". Go through each example and realise what are people, even if they have not been described as so. This is important as your answer must be to explore the way PEOPLE are presented. The writer suggests that within us all we have the capacity for great good and great evil. For him, great evil is portrayed by the Commandant and the vultures picking flesh of the dead and protecting their decaying meat. Great good is the commandants love for his child and the vultures' tenderness towards each other.

The easiest to consider is the " Commandant at Belsen Camp ", you will realise of course that this is an nazi officer working where many people were murdered every day. Look up Belsen Camp to make sure you understand this. The writer is pointing out the incongruency between the Commandants evil "job" and his thoughtfulness towards his child waiting at home for his return.

He is asking you to consider the most important line of his poem in respect to this person... do we feel encouraged that a man who can do such an evil job can be thinking of his daughter or do we "despair" that a man whose spoilt indulgences towards his child reveal his love for her, can be morally at least partially responsible for the death of millions.

Is this man himself a "Vulture"? Are the vultures PEOPLE portrayed as birds....?

Consider this point also, are the "vultures" as they are described within the poem... could the writer be actually describing real people as vultures or is the vulture really a bird and is he simply making a comparison between the vulture and the human Commandant? There is of course a subtlety of difference.

Relate your responses to the most important line of the poem...

Consider all these facts in the same sense with the other poem and discuss each.

Won't go any further into this as you do need to do it yourself!!
1 Like #15
For how People are portrayed, I would use the 'Two scavengers.......' poem
IIRC I think its in this cluster.
#16
ClarityofMind
would also want to know if the poem is written from the left of the page ( usual style of writing ) or if there is a pattern to the writing... for instance some lines dropped below the others at unusual intervals...


Yep, I remember in the 'two scavengers..' poem alternat lines were written from each side of the page to show contrast between the 2 walks of life.... or some crap like that! :roll:
#17
amzmalhotra
Yep, I remember in the 'two scavengers..' poem alternat lines were written from each side of the page to show contrast between the 2 walks of life.... or some crap like that! :roll:


I havent done GCSE in a very very long time but some peple seem far more conversant with the other poems you will be looking at OP, possibly a very good idea to consider the group of poems and choose the best one to relate to "Vultures". The question gives you space to choose and they will be looking for you to make a good choice.
#18
Liddle ol' me
Wow! Just read Vultures for the first time. Pretty shocking! First thing that jumps to mind is that the reader doesn't realise that their meal, the 'swollen corpse', is a human corpse until the poem changes perspective ... < shudder >. I'll look at it carefully now and make some fuller comments in a bit.


Plus if the corpse itself can be classed as "people" ( relating to the question ), you can consider whether the good/bad relates to being ALIVE and only death itself must make us "despair".
#19
Nice post CoM (#15). I'll have a quick look and add some pointers too. Perhaps given what you've said already, I might just pose some questions about areas you haven't covered for strike to think about. I'm sure he can use what you've said to explore these answers in his own way - perhaps the best way to elicit his own voice for an 'authentic' answer on the paper. Coming straight up.
#20
I rather like this line... it appeals to me... "how love in other ways so particular will pick a corner

in that charnel-house tidy it and coil up there, perhaps even fall asleep - her face

turned to the wall"

A charnel house being a place to store human skeletal remains. Are the PEOPLE who commit evil acts therefore just the remains of life.. yet with that flicker of "love" coiled ( think snake-evil-christianity-issues of good/bad/forgiveness ) and yet shameful ( think guilt and regret, punishment in religious terms ), head turned to the wall.

Each word within that poem is pithy ( it has inner meaning ) Very beautiful and yet easy poem.
#21
Liddle ol' me
Nice post CoM (#15). I'll have a quick look and add some pointers too. Perhaps given what you've said already, I might just pose some questions about areas you haven't covered for strike to think about. I'm sure he can use what you've said to explore these answers in his own way - perhaps the best way to elicit his own voice for an 'authentic' answer on the paper. Coming straight up.


yes, thats what I do for my own kids, don't want to actually answer the question for them... just ask the questions that will hopefully turn on lights of understanding where previously there weren't considerations. x x
#22
In the greyness and drizzle of one despondent

dawn unstirred by harbingers of sunbreak a vulture

[COLOR="Red"]what are common understandings of vultures? feeding off others, etc, right? now how are your preconceptions about them challenged as the writer's description continues below? any human qualities, for example?[/COLOR]

perching high on broken bone of a dead tree nestled close to his mate his smooth bashed-in head, a pebble on a stem rooted in

a dump of gross feathers, inclined [COLOR="red"]affectionately [/COLOR]to hers. Yesterday they picked the eyes of a swollen corpse in a water-logged trench and ate the things in its bowel. Full gorged they chose their roost

keeping the hollowed remnant in easy range of cold telescopic eyes ... Strange indeed how love in other ways so particular will pick a corner

in that charnel-house tidy it and coil up there, perhaps even fall asleep - her face

turned to the wall! ... [COLOR="Red"]This is the first real shift in the poem from vulture to human (aside from metaphorical ones above). Who is the woman, or what is she being used to represent? Is it love? And why is it/she in that place and with her face turned to the wall? [/COLOR]

Thus the Commandant at Belsen Camp going home for the day with fumes of human roast clinging rebelliously to his hairy nostrils will stop at the wayside sweet-shop and pick up a chocolate for his tender offspring waiting at home for [COLOR="red"]Daddy's return[/COLOR] ... [COLOR="red"]The daughter's voice is also brought in here for effect. Note the writer could have used 'her father's return'. [/COLOR]
Praise bounteous providence if you will that grants even an ogre a tiny glow-worm tenderness encapsulated in icy caverns of a cruel heart or else despair

for in every germ of that kindred love is lodged the perpetuity of evil.

[COLOR="Red"]More questions and a few answers are presented in an easy-to-follow BBC guide here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/english/poemscult/acheberev_print.shtml

Good luck with it strike! :thumbsup:[/COLOR]
#23
Are you using the poem What Were They Like too? Want us to make comments/add questions on it?
1 Like #24
you must be doing AQA spec B right?

in every question you must talk about he language used, the structure and always relate it back to the question at the end of each paragraph.

if your doing the past paper have a look at the mark scheme and try to see what the examiners look for.

oh and your intro should be about the theme of the poem.
banned#25
oh deal lord, i remember doing the one on vultures when i did mine, i went back to college late to do my gcse cause never did any at school, and was asolutely hopeless at poetry, can you not get any extra help at school/college if you aint getting it?
#26
aha The old poetry anthology.
1 Like #27
also comparisson between vulture and the commandant.
Both do evil deeds, yet show affection for their family.
if i still had my anotated anothology id give it to you, but my sister chucked it away :/
fool.

also the understood subtext of what is happening at Belsen
Gustatory language

humanity and love behind what could be viewed as evil - much like vulture.

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